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View Full Version : [3.5] Fixing Spell Stitched



kirbsys
2010-01-22, 01:17 AM
I recently found the spellstitched template in MMII, and while it's cool flavor wise (undead with mystic runes that give it some spells), it seems rather broken. For example, applying it to a ghoul gives you a CR 2 creature that can cast four 1st and 2nd level spells per day as well as two 3rd level spells per day. :smalleek:

So I have two separate ideas that might work to fix it. The first is simply to change how one determines spell eligibility. Rather than giving spells based on WIS (as it is presented now), simply switch it so that for 1-2 HD you use the 10 WIS spell set, and from there move up for every 2 HD that it gives. Now the ghoul would get only four first level spells, a fitting bump for a +1 CR.

The other option, which I liked significantly less, was to simply decrease spell levels by one, giving it four 0 and 1st level spells, and 2 2nd level spells, but unfortunately this makes it far less powerful at high CRs (although it gives a significant casting bonus for a small CR boost, so that might not be a bad thing), not to mention that second level spells on a CR 2 creature is fairly powerful still.

Any ideas I missed?

Ranos
2010-01-22, 01:22 AM
Yeah, making it HD-based would fix it.

SurlySeraph
2010-01-22, 01:42 AM
HD-based could be a problem because a lot of undead have more HD than their CR would suggest. Something like a Spellstitched Grey Render Zombie would be rather terrifying under this system.

kirbsys
2010-01-22, 01:55 AM
That's true, but a spell-stitched grey render zombie makes zero sense flavor wise. Perhaps to keep it balanced rules wise make the WIS score a pre-req along with the HD? That way you don't end up with CR2 ghouls that have the spell casting ability of a sixth level sorcerer, but it also avoids the grey-render issue.

Gralamin
2010-01-22, 01:56 AM
HD-based could be a problem because a lot of undead have more HD than their CR would suggest. Something like a Spellstitched Grey Render Zombie would be rather terrifying under this system.

Which suggests it might be a better idea to base it off of CR

Temotei
2010-01-22, 02:19 AM
Go smoke elemental creature half-dragon (pick your favorite flavor) half-fey half-scrag half-troll gheden fetch ghul katane spellwarped woodling Lolth-touched greater phantom (all before bodak) bodak spellstitched tarrasque!

I forgot how many type changes the tarrasque just went through...one...two...three...four...five...six... seven? Maybe? :smallcool:

Sorry. This post is probably not at all relevant. I was just inspired. :smalltongue:

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-01-22, 07:46 AM
Spell stitched is also in Complete Arcane. Off hand, I can't say if it was changed in the reprinting, but you may wish to check it out.

Runestar
2010-01-22, 08:02 AM
For example, applying it to a ghoul gives you a CR 2 creature that can cast four 1st and 2nd level spells per day as well as two 3rd level spells per day.

In theory.

In practice, it is unlikely the ghoul will get to use them all in combat. It has just 13 hp, 1 solid hit from a barb will take it down. It may be able to get off 1 good spell before going down. Nor will it have the caster lv necessary to power some of the more deadly spells like vampiric touch or fireball.

I do agree that access to certain spells might unbalance the game at that stage though, such as stinking cloud or even cloudkill. I guess it is up to the DM's good sense not to choose too powerful spells (so you shouldn't use cloudkill against a group of 5th lv PCs).

So a typical spellstitched ghoul would likely prebuff with mage armour and false life, then open with scorching ray in the first round of combat, before being taken down by focus fire.

I do agree that certain aspects of the template seem quite poorly designed. For example, its sr is 10+cha mod. This is worthless to higher-cr undead, while still being moderately useful to low-cr undead (the ghoul would get sr12).