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Clarkington
2010-01-22, 08:43 AM
Hello Guys!

I've got a 3.5 game that includes a fighter-type with high str and a two handed weap and power attack. His attack bonus is so high that he has a very high chance of hitting. The subsequent damage is usually sufficient to end most even-CR monsters in 1-2 hits. The players are still lower level, but I forecast this trend continuing.

What suggestions do you guys have to increase the challenge in combat for this type of character without making it impossible for characters who didn't chose this route for damage?

Thanks!

Thrawn183
2010-01-22, 08:52 AM
Well there is a feat that allows a character to ignore damage from power attack.

Is this just power attack or is he throwing in charging type feats (Leap attack and the like)? I usually don't allow charging builds in my games because I feel it turns things into rocket tag.

Emmerask
2010-01-22, 08:57 AM
Hello Guys!

I've got a 3.5 game that includes a fighter-type with high str and a two handed weap and power attack. His attack bonus is so high that he has a very high chance of hitting. The subsequent damage is usually sufficient to end most even-CR monsters in 1-2 hits. The players are still lower level, but I forecast this trend continuing.

What suggestions do you guys have to increase the challenge in combat for this type of character without making it impossible for characters who didn't chose this route for damage?

Thanks!

well my suggestions should not be used in every fight but there are lots of things you can do:

-terrain on which you can´t charge
-enemies who use large polearms and ready an action for his charge
-tob anti charge setting sun school enemies
-terrain advantage a bridge with rantged attackers sniping down for example
-flying enemies ;)
-enemies with blink or mirror image

Eldariel
2010-01-22, 09:05 AM
Well, just play opponents smarter. D&D is pretty lethal game in that martial damage scales with HP and things die fast. Not being there means they can't hit you tho. Skirmishing opponents with bows, snipers (with Hide), reach fighting characters, grapplers, trippers, etc. all represent opponents that can take a two-hander out of his element (though grappling and tripping still means his huge Str comes into play, but that's fine).

That's without going into spellcasters, of course, who have huge repertoires of things from simple Grease to Webs, Glitterdusts, Fogs and such that heavily inconvenience people. Really though, it comes down to the question, what kinds of characters compose the rest of the party? If there are spellcasters, they can keep up by just shifting focus to more efficient spells, while skill-types can obviously utilize their skills. Other martial types are in the biggest trouble, but that's just a build-question.

Clarkington
2010-01-22, 09:10 AM
The fighter does utilize charging to close, or will get near and then move in and start scything around. Good suggestions so far - I really appreciate the suggestions!

Runestar
2010-01-22, 09:18 AM
Hold the line from complete warrior can stymie chargers, as does a certain pair of boots from MIC (can't recall the name offhand).

I assume he is using shock trooper to maintain his high attack bonus? That feat degrades your AC like crazy - he will be in for a retributive full attack the next round unless he takes the necessary precautions.

Can we have a look at his character build, as well as the sort of encounters his party faces?

Iceforge
2010-01-22, 09:30 AM
Hello Guys!

I've got a 3.5 game that includes a fighter-type with high str and a two handed weap and power attack. His attack bonus is so high that he has a very high chance of hitting. The subsequent damage is usually sufficient to end most even-CR monsters in 1-2 hits. The players are still lower level, but I forecast this trend continuing.

What suggestions do you guys have to increase the challenge in combat for this type of character without making it impossible for characters who didn't chose this route for damage?

Thanks!

Make an encounter which isn't about to be solved solely by brute force from a big sword then.

Now, you don't give a level, so it is hard to determine good "ready to play" challenges, but one of the harder things to fix is a fiendish troll backed up by vigor (from ally or from magic item)

Regenerates 5 hit points pr. turn
All but fire and acid is threated as non-lethal damage
Got fire and cold resistance (how much depends on HD, and you can scale that to fit the CR unless they are playing high level)
Damage reduction (again, how much depends on HD, but either 5/magic or 10/magic)
Is healed 1 point each turn by vigor, which heals ALL non-lethal damage

And it is within the limits of RAW (Althrough, there might be rules against the fiendish template on other creatures than vermin and animal, not entirely sure about that, but then again, you are the DM, so your word goes)

XiaoTie
2010-01-22, 09:35 AM
“Melee can't have nice things”, etc. is not the way to go.

If he is honestly hitting things (he isn’t cheating on dices or “forgetting” about how attack rolls work) then changing the rules to gimp the character wouldn’t be the best way to approach this subject, at least not IMHO.

What you could do (if this guy has an awesome-uber-OMG-build that makes the game less fun for the players [DM included!]) is talk to him about it, let him know that the game is not as fun as it used to be because of A, B or C.

Now, if the character has an average build, in an average party, and is being able to hit stuff due to his tactics (charge for bonuses, flanking, etc), then add something new! Difficult terrains, enemies that are able to come up with tactics of their own (and everything else that some of the other guys in this thread already mentioned), are the way to go. This could even (and probably will) make the game better!

Just don’t overdo it. Don’t punish your players for playing smart.

Drogorn
2010-01-22, 09:35 AM
The subsequent damage is usually sufficient to end most even-CR monsters in 1-2 hits.

This is important. If your players are decent optimizers, they'll slaughter even-cr encounters. Consider that even-cr is 1 vs 4(or whatever the size of your party is). It's not any wonder that the players will win very easily.

You can do a couple things here though. If it's just the monsters losing hp too fast, you can maximize their hp, or even give them bonus hp. I did this in my last campaign. Another thing you can do is give the monsters intelligent feat choices. The feat choices of most monsters are horrendous. You can also just pit the players against higher cr monsters. If you do that though, you have to look closely at the monster. Don't pit an Entombed against an 8th level party without fire damage. :smallannoyed:

Sinfire Titan
2010-01-22, 10:42 AM
How many enemies are you throwing at him? If it's just one or two at most, then he should be getting a kill count the way he has been. Solo enemies are impossible to run in 3.5 because of the Action Economy (be it 3 against 1 or worse, the numbers will always have an advantage).


If the characters are around 6th level or so, try stating up 7 or 8 4th level Kobolds with actual class levels in something like Warblade or Rogue. Space them out so AoEs won't 1-shot them, and then set up flanking situations or similar problems. Use plenty of difficult terrain (Kobolds have a minor advantage due to higher speed). And make sure to use mechanics like Disarm or Trip (but not Sunder or Grapple, as Kobolds aren't that good at either). Use Quarterstaffs as their weapons. Give them decent armor.

If possible, use the WotC Web Enhancement articles to make the kobolds better.

erikun
2010-01-22, 10:48 AM
I never quite understood why "big fighter skilled at killing things can kill things" is considered a bad thing. After all, if it's the one thing he can do, he should be able to do it.

As for solutions, you can: 1.) Throw more things at the party, 2.) Throw tougher things at the party, or 3.) Throw something at the party that is difficult to kill, such as a flying dragon or shadow. Ideally, you'll want to mix things up, so there are times when the fighter can kill one big thing, times when the fighter needs to kill a bunch of little things, and times when the fighter has some trouble killing the thing.

Clarkington
2010-01-22, 10:51 AM
This is important. If your players are decent optimizers, they'll slaughter even-cr encounters. Consider that even-cr is 1 vs 4(or whatever the size of your party is). It's not any wonder that the players will win very easily.

You can do a couple things here though. If it's just the monsters losing hp too fast, you can maximize their hp, or even give them bonus hp. I did this in my last campaign. Another thing you can do is give the monsters intelligent feat choices. The feat choices of most monsters are horrendous. You can also just pit the players against higher cr monsters. If you do that though, you have to look closely at the monster. Don't pit an Entombed against an 8th level party without fire damage. :smallannoyed:

That's very helpful. I think by following the book too closely I havn't been catering to the power level of the group.

Ill incorporate this along with the other comments you guys have given me - thanks! I will DM smarter, not harder.

I really appreciate all the quality advice you guys have given, thanks again!