PDA

View Full Version : Characteristics of a thieves guild.



Ozreth
2010-01-22, 01:35 PM
Help me whip up some flavor for a thieves guild in a very large city. Whats it look like on the inside? Small details and large. How is it connected to other parts of the city, physically and politically...and on and on....

drengnikrafe
2010-01-22, 01:40 PM
I'm not sure my input will be useful, but...

My impression of the Thieves Guild (hereafter refered to as TG) in a large city is that most people will not know it is a TG. Most will see it as simply another building, albeit a fairly large one. The entry area will appear to be a legitimate business, for any who would dare enter, although it's not entirely clear what the business does (or maybe it is). The building itself has any number of small traps that are easy to circumvent (if you know where they are) within it, many of which are connected to alarms. The building should be at least 3 stories tall. In one area, there is a resting area, in which various theif bedrooms are. They are simply constructed, and have few places to properly hide loot (most of it has to be kept in the main treasury). It also has a small armory, but it is well guarded. There should also be some sort of training area, and at least 3 tiers of access capabilities, such as that the newbies could access their bedrooms, but not the treasury, or something like that.

dsmiles
2010-01-22, 01:40 PM
Help me whip up some flavor for a thieves guild in a very large city. Whats it look like on the inside? Small details and large. How is it connected to other parts of the city, physically and politically...and on and on....

I read a series, I think the author was Trudi (Terry?) Canavan (or something like that). The thieves' guild in that was connected to the entire city by the 'thieves' road.' It was a series of sewers, hidden passages/rooms, and rooftop bridges that they could use to get nearly anywhere in the city. They also didn't have any one central location, the individual bosses' hideouts were constantly changing.

Tyndmyr
2010-01-22, 01:42 PM
Lots of tunnels. Lots of contacts. Anything is available inside, but everything is hidden/secured with great paranoia. Dark clothing is fashionable.

Code names would likely be used. Possibly secret languages as well.

Remember, a theives' guild does not consist of just rogues, either. You'll have your odd casters...clerics of Olidadiramma(sp?), spelltheives, etc. It should be quite an assortment of odd, suspicious people.

To lighten the mood, I'd toss in one or two less serious types. Perhaps a blissfully clueless idealist. Completely good, but so unaware that he doesn't actually know what he's into.

Black market dealers would be connected as well. An entire network of fences, spies, etc is necessary to any sort of organized theivery. If possible, consider having some of the local law enforcement bought off.

Shademan
2010-01-22, 01:43 PM
In one of my campaigns the thief guild was a gentlemans club (open for women as well, offcourse) it was fronted as a sophisticated place for ladies and gentlemen to spend their time and money, watching plays and gambling and drinking from ridicoulusy small cups.
Offcourse, it was invitation only... so no one ever knew that there was less theater and dance and much more planning and skullduggery

Alejandro
2010-01-22, 01:46 PM
Have the thieves' guild be a large company that provides security services. Locksmiths, consultants, bodyguards, and casters that will place wards, glyphs, etc, for a fee.

Endless, endless opportunities for them.

Bibliomancer
2010-01-22, 01:46 PM
Is there a specific type of metropolis that you were thinking of as the base for this guild?

Anyways, example (N power center).

In The City, The Guild (LE) is constantly in conflict with town hall (N), and The Temple (CG). Often contracts with The Wizards (N). [Metropolises have 4 power centers).

The guild is split into x parts, one for each major city section (Sharn in Eberron would have 4: Menthis Plateau, Central, Dura, and Tavick's Landing). The Guild's HQ is in Region, the heart of guild turf, where almost every citizen has to buy into a protection racket or move out. The guild is weakest in Holyville, the religious core of The Temple, and fairly weak in Bureaucracy, the area around city hall. It is well placed to protect The Wizards from any outside meddling, but mostly keeps quiet in that area to avoid annoying its occasional allies. The rest of the city is contested.

The Guard is incredibly corrupt, and not an effective instrument. City hall tends to rely on mercenaries, priests from The Temple and adventurers to fight the Guild.

Outside of the 3 special areas, each district head has a few controllers, each of whom have some block-men. Each is responsible for running protection rackets, where possible. This structure has many holes outside of Guild turf.

At present, the leader is about to retire, so a power struggle is imminent between Deputies.


Not a lot more to detail without some background information on the city.

dsmiles
2010-01-22, 01:46 PM
...skullduggery

I love that word...:smallbiggrin:

JeenLeen
2010-01-22, 01:48 PM
If it would make sense to have sewers or catacombs under the city, I would view the thieves' guild as a nice looking business front (probably something that allows contacts or members to pass in and out unnoticed but does not attract too many folk--a bank or small shop which entertains merchants, but not a tavern).

Perhaps there are some minor rooms stored away in the top floors, but the majority of the guild is underground. The sewers or catacombs have been blocked off, made clean and livable (except maybe for a couple dungeon spots), and there are well-guarded and trapped treasuries, sleeping rooms, and training areas. A few backdoors and secret exits to the sewers, probably a tunnel to a nearby building that is a second front.

If one guild controls the illegal operations in the city, they probably have their main house and many small houses around. Perhaps most are just that that blacksmith or bar-owner gets a little extra money if he lets some people leave something for someone to pick up later. Fences, spies, and smuggling are likely done through contacts or minor houses, so that if they are caught it is not easily traced back to the main house.

Shademan
2010-01-22, 01:53 PM
I love that word...:smallbiggrin:

yees.... it is quite PLEASANT

DementedFellow
2010-01-22, 01:58 PM
Here is what I cooked up like now.


The Thieves Guild to me would be in the Merchant's District in town. So probably on the Western edge, beside either an unassuming bar, or equally unassuming upscale brothel.

The door to the Thieves Guild would be very solid and unmarked, save for a sliding part, opened from the inside, which would allow the bouncer to hear the right password and the PCs can gain entry.

Inside, the hall is furnished, and an area rug leads to a banquet room. Off to the right side is the Broker's Office and to the left is a bulletin board, with Most-Wanted Posters of more illustrious guild members. Inside the Broker's Office is a small man behind a big desk and two guards. The guards are responsible for venturing into the safe housed in the room below. The Safe Room has thick walls and an equally thick floor to prevent adventurers from burrowing in and making a safe egress without alarming too many. The Broker is responsible for taking the Guild's 20% take of goods, and has the ability (for a price) to house certain items of particular value for an amount of time. The Broker's job is perhaps the second most important in the entire guild.

Towards the back entrance to the Banquet Hall, there is a winding staircase. The Second Floor offers bedding to members for a price and is willing to hide members in good standing from the local authorities. Down the hall is another empty room where the Guild's leading members can hand out special missions to privileged members.

Further up the staircase, houses the upper echelon of the Thieves Guild. The doors have the ability to be locked, however anyone stupid enough to attempt to steal from these members will have the entire might of the Guild and the Guild's collaborators throughout the city on their heels. The Assassins Guild (the sister guild) will make finding the culprits a top priority and will not even ask payment for the Thieves Guild for their aid. The Guild system is meant to protect, and any form of betrayal or upheaval can upset the balance of the guild system. If one guild falls because of in-fighting, others will surely fall as well.

On the top most floor houses the Guild Master. His room is always locked and the locks are not pickable. Only a certain key, forged specifically for the lock can open the door to his chambers. Inside his bedchambers houses a wall safe and a four-post bed. The finest accoutrement adorn his room. The Guild Master skims from the coffers. He greases the palms of the local town watch and pays off those who would blow the whistle on guild affairs. Rarely is he seen inside the Guild, and he isn't likely to dole out missions unless the very stake of the guild is at hand.

AtwasAwamps
2010-01-22, 02:05 PM
Anytime I hear "Thieves Guild" all I can think of is what one of my DMs threw at my adventuring party. I have no input for you regarding the guild itself, but I suggest you use this at some point.

Pick a race that speaks a language that one of your characters can speak (for example, Elven). Have them find a note in a puzzle related to thieves guild that says "If you can read this, the safe combination is 5-6-5-5" and have a safe nearby. When they enter the combination and open the safe, have it shoot them in the face with an arrow. Tied to the back of the arrow is a note also in Elven, saying:

"There are no elves in thieves guild."

My face will never be the same.

snoopy13a
2010-01-22, 02:13 PM
Some things to consider:

1) What is their territory? Just the neighborhood, a large section of the city, the whole city?

2) What businesses are they in? Are they just thieves and fences? Do they run protection rackets? Gambling? Prostitution? Smuggling? Assassination? Black Market? Loan Sharking?

3) What is their relationship with the authorities? Do they bribe local guardsmen, magistrates?

A small time thieves guild may just operate in one neighborhood. The "leader" of the guild could own a shop to make the fencing and resale of goods easier. Thieves who operate in the area must pay a percentage to leader or face punishment. As a benefit, they can fence their stolen items. The leader probably pays tribute money to higher level criminal underworld leaders in order to operate as well as bribery money to local authorities. If their is no higher level underworld person then they could be involved in turf wars with other neighborbood gangs.

A larger thieves guild has their hand in other businesses. They may run a few gambling dens (if gambling is illegal), prostitution rings, assassination, loan sharking and could be involved in extorting honest businesses for protection money as well as fences. Each of these ventures will be headed by a member in charge of a "crew" of lower level (not character level) lackeys. The head of the crew pays tribute money to those higher. If the city has more than one of these gangs then they could either be satisifed with their territory or be in the midst of a turf war.

A character who wants to join a thieves guild would usually start from the bottom in a business that meets their skills.

A rogue would likely begin as a pickpocket or burglar and pay tribute to the local fence.

A fighter-type could join a crew as muscle and could be used in the protection racket, robberies, and roughing up those who run afoul of the guild.

A character with a head for numbers could begin in the loan sharking or gambling business and help out the NPC running that business.

Characters who perform well and make money may rise to become head of their own "crew". Or they could rise because of turf wars opening up new positions.

A large city guild likely is made up of:

1) The leader--> He or she is the big cheese and tribute money flows up here.
1a) The head advisor--> Often crime lords have a trusted advisor. This is the "Conselignor"

2) The "Capos" (using mafia term here). He or she is the main figure in a large section of the city. They oversee all the illegal stuff in that area. They will have a group of enforcers under them and may still run a venture of their own.

3) Crew leaders- He or she runs a business in a Capo's territory. They have a crew underneath them. They send a percentage up to the Capo.

4) Crew members- Entry level position. They do the heavy lifting that brings in the money.

5) Associates- they really aren't full fledged members but pay tribute and recieve services. For example, a pickpocket or thief may not think of themselves as a member of the organization but they are paying a percentage of their take to the organization and they recieve the benefit of having a fence. The fence themself, is a member of the organization probably at the #3 level.

A leader may have four or five capos who themselves could have four or five crew leaders under them. Each crew could have a dozen or so members plus an uncertain number of loosely affilited burglars and pickpockets.

That would create a group of around 250 or so.

Ozreth
2010-01-22, 02:14 PM
It was going to be a lowly guild trying to climb in the ranks, residing in a small room hidden behind a wall that can be retracted upon password.

Although I am liking the idea of having it behind a good looking store front. Great ideas, keep em coming!

Im trying to figure out how to work out a massive sewer system going through the city. I guess its not as hard as it sounds, under every road will be a tunnel and Ill just throw some baddies down there to fight along the way.

Ozreth
2010-01-22, 02:15 PM
Anytime I hear "Thieves Guild" all I can think of is what one of my DMs threw at my adventuring party. I have no input for you regarding the guild itself, but I suggest you use this at some point.

Pick a race that speaks a language that one of your characters can speak (for example, Elven). Have them find a note in a puzzle related to thieves guild that says "If you can read this, the safe combination is 5-6-5-5" and have a safe nearby. When they enter the combination and open the safe, have it shoot them in the face with an arrow. Tied to the back of the arrow is a note also in Elven, saying:

"There are no elves in thieves guild."

My face will never be the same.

HAHA so good. I will have to use that. Thanks : )

Sliver
2010-01-22, 02:28 PM
There is a book Guildcraft, by Bastion Press, that has a rogue's guild.. Also E.N. Guild: Thieves' Guild, the 6th volume...

BTW, the E.N. Guild book has a "common terms" chapter. It starts with that:


Bat Crappers: A derogatory slang for wizards, sorcerers and other arcane spellcasters. It is a reference to the spellcasters use of spell components. Arcane spellcasters consider the term offensive.

Bibliomancer
2010-01-22, 02:32 PM
It was going to be a lowly guild trying to climb in the ranks, residing in a small room hidden behind a wall that can be retracted upon password.

Well, then:

The Cream Gecko guild, consisting of only a few dozen inexperienced thieves, has a surprisingly sophisticated hideaway, thanks to the fact that the guild's leader's deceased uncle (a high level wizard) left her a fully equipped planar shielded laboratory complete with malfunctioning teleportation circle, a hidden front, and adamantine walls. Occasionally the odd demon shows up, but heh, the building's solid and Outsiders are sneak-attack-able.

Not many guild members know about the upper levels, where they're still trying to rub the blood-stained pentagrams off the floor. To most, the guild is a cozy set of rooms with moderately comfortable armchairs, a set of safes in which to leave stolen goods, and seven different exits, three of which aren't through the sewer system. There's also Sticky, the three foot long Dire Gecko that is the Guild Leader's pet and Guild mascot (as well as a magically modified creature with an Int of 14, the ability to understand common, and the capacity to record anything it hears and excrete it later using its saliva, but not even the Leader knows all of that).

The symbol of the guild is a severed tail curled up into a circle. The guild members have invented a way to carry around a set of fake limbs with them and drop them if the guard catches them. This has allowed guild members to escape quite a few difficult grapples, and is earning them a bit of a reputation in the underworld; not a bad thing for an up and coming guild.

The guild consists of 9 1st level rogues (5 human, 3 halfling, 1 gnome), 3 2nd level rogues (2 human, 1 elf), 1 5th level wizard (gnome, guild lieutenant), 1 5th level rogue (human, guild lieutenant), and the guild leader, Sarah Fairway (apparently human, actually half-fiend human, rogue 5/obscure prestige class 3).

The guild has a few semi-tame crocodiles guarding the sewer entrances in exchange for scraps of meat (and the occasional intruder), and the 3 non-sewer entrances open into the basements of abandoned buildings, and are often trapped.


Im trying to figure out how to work out a massive sewer system going through the city. I guess its not as hard as it sounds, under every road will be a tunnel and Ill just throw some baddies down there to fight along the way.

A common way to justify huge sewer systems is to say that the city's old enough that it is build on the ruins of another city or itself. In Discworld, Ankh-Morpork is next to a river that periodically floods, sending silt everywhere. As a result, every so often another story is added and the front door becomes the cellar door, the second flloor window becomes the front door, and a new second floor is built.

As a result, if you have a good sense of direction you can walk through the city underground by knocking holes in the walls of old basements.

valadil
2010-01-22, 02:50 PM
If you have the free time, read The Lies of Locke Lamora. It's awesome motivation for rogues and scoundrels.

For me, the most fun part of any thieves guild is the front. You can't just have a guild, they have to have a legitimate business as the face side of things. Taverns are pretty standard, but I'm a big fan of the bakery.

Subotei
2010-01-22, 03:03 PM
Fritz Lieber's "Swords" series pretty much invented the theives guild:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fafhrd_and_the_Gray_Mouser

essential reading.

AtwasAwamps
2010-01-22, 03:09 PM
HAHA so good. I will have to use that. Thanks : )

Be warned. If you use it, you may have your PCs suddenly decide they need to eliminate the thieves guild. With incredible prejudice.

Especially if this is right after you force them to chase a kid through a city.

A kid who stole your wallet.

I'm going to kill this DM in so many ways.

Ozreth
2010-01-22, 03:52 PM
So now my concern is that I have yet to DM a game with a city this large. If players are navigating through tunnels, how do I map and keep track of this along with having encounters in the sewers for them? Im a pretty visual player but mapping out every part of this city seems a little tedious.

Bibliomancer
2010-01-22, 04:12 PM
So now my concern is that I have yet to DM a game with a city this large. If players are navigating through tunnels, how do I map and keep track of this along with having encounters in the sewers for them? Im a pretty visual player but mapping out every part of this city seems a little tedious.

Then don't. Describe the area to the PCs, give them a few general maps which they'd receive in game from their employer or a guide, and then only set up the battle grid if a fight is about to occur. Have a rough idea about any area where action going to take place so you know how far apart encounters will be spaced, and have a few more detailed maps for your own use.

When in doubt, assume that the tunnels conform to whatever encounter you're running, and if they've been here before and it was different, then they got lost en route and are in a different location.

If the PCs want to find an area where they previously visited briefly, make an intelligence check for each character secretly: DC 5 (+1 for each day since visiting it, +2 if they ran through it, +2 if it's underground, +2 if it's a cramped area (tunnels, alleys), +2 if it's hard to access) and tell them where they think it is, then have them argue over who's remembering properly.

Ozreth
2010-01-22, 04:15 PM
Then don't. Describe the area to the PCs, give them a few general maps which they'd receive in game from their employer or a guide, and then only set up the battle grid if a fight is about to occur. Have a rough idea about any area where action going to take place so you know how far apart encounters will be spaced, and have a few more detailed maps for your own use.

When in doubt, assume that the tunnels conform to whatever encounter you're running, and if they've been here before and it was different, then they got lost en route and are in a different location.

If the PCs want to find an area where they previously visited briefly, make an intelligence check for each character secretly: DC 5 (+1 for each day since visiting it, +2 if they ran through it, +2 if it's underground, +2 if it's a cramped area (tunnels, alleys), +2 if it's hard to access) and tell them where they think it is, then have them argue over who's remembering properly.

Perfect. Thanks! This DM thing is tough when it comes to running more unique games, Im still getting used to it. Love the work though ha.

Bibliomancer
2010-01-22, 04:49 PM
Perfect. Thanks! This DM thing is tough when it comes to running more unique games, Im still getting used to it. Love the work though ha.

No problem.

Have you decided on the specifics of this guild yet? [See 'Cream Gecko' suggestion above.]

Deth Muncher
2010-01-22, 05:10 PM
I instantly thought of Oblivion (aka Elder Scrolls IV) when I say this. Here's (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Thieves_Guild) a Wiki on the topic. Enjoy.