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The J Pizzel
2010-01-22, 03:53 PM
I finally get to play a PC and I can't decide if I want to play a Warlord or a Cleric.

Quicks facts: 5 players. Level 6. Will probably only last about 2-3 levels. Will take place shortly on material, then go to Shadowfell for a crap ton of fighting, then go to Feywild for a short visit.

Group has very good tactics and is very good at playing fighting together. Group is as follows:
Goliath sword n board fighter
Drow rogue
Some sort of ranged striker (he's been playing chaos sorcerer, but he might try archer ranger or warlock)
Eladrin Wizzie

Here's my deal, I love buffing and healing. I'm perfectly content not doing high damage or awesome spells, I like keeping teamates alive, and boosting them so they can kick ass. I also like to get in the line of fire. So I built a battle cleric and a warlord. Please critique each one and let me know what I can do to make the most out of both. Also, feel free to advice which one you think I should play. I'm enjoying both of them on paper.

Genasi Warlord
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
warlord, level 6
Genasi, Warlord
Build: Resourceful Warlord
Commanding Presence: Resourceful Presence
Elemental Manifestation: Earthsoul
Earthshock: Earthshock Strength

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 18, Con 13, Dex 8, Int 18, Wis 10, Cha 14.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 15, Con 13, Dex 8, Int 15, Wis 10, Cha 14.


AC: 21 Fort: 19 Reflex: 17 Will: 16
HP: 50 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 12

TRAINED SKILLS
Diplomacy +10, Endurance +10, Intimidate +10, Heal +8

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +1, Arcana +7, Bluff +5, Dungeoneering +3, History +7, Insight +3, Nature +5, Perception +3, Religion +7, Stealth +1, Streetwise +5, Thievery +1, Athletics +6

FEATS
Level 1: Weapon Proficiency (Greatspear)
Level 2: Lend Might
Level 4: Hunting Wolf Style
Level 6: Weapon Expertise (Polearm)

POWERS
Warlord at-will 1: Wolf Pack Tactics
Warlord at-will 1: Commander's Strike
Warlord encounter 1: Guarding Attack
Warlord daily 1: Fearless Rescue
Warlord utility 2: Adaptive Stratagem
Warlord encounter 3: Inspiring War Cry
Warlord daily 5: Stand the Fallen
Warlord utility 6: Inspiring Reaction

ITEMS
Magic Greatspear +1, Magic Hide Armor +1

Human Battle Cleric of Tempus
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Jarek, level 6
Human, Cleric
Build: Battle Cleric
Battle Cleric Armaments: Weapon Proficiency (Longsword)
Background: Ward of the Temple (+2 to Religion)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 18, Con 11, Dex 8, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 14.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 15, Con 11, Dex 8, Int 12, Wis 15, Cha 14.


AC: 21 Fort: 18 Reflex: 16 Will: 19
HP: 48 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 12

TRAINED SKILLS
Insight +11, Religion +11, Heal +11, Diplomacy +10, History +9

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +1, Arcana +4, Bluff +5, Dungeoneering +6, Endurance +2, Intimidate +5, Nature +6, Perception +6, Stealth +1, Streetwise +5, Thievery +1, Athletics +6

FEATS
Cleric: Ritual Caster
Human: Battle Cleric Armaments
Level 1: Implement Expertise (holy symbol)
Level 2: Weapon Expertise (Heavy Blade)
Level 4: Healer's Implement
Level 6: Shielding Word

POWERS
Bonus At-Will Power: Sacred Flame
Channel Divinity: Turn Undead
Cleric at-will 1: Astral Seal
Cleric at-will 1: Righteous Brand
Cleric encounter 1: Healing Strike
Cleric daily 1: Shield of the Gods
Cleric utility 2: Healer's Gift
Cleric encounter 3: Hymn of Resurgence
Cleric daily 5: Iron to Glass
Cleric utility 6: Divine Favor

ITEMS
Ritual Book, Light Shield, Symbol of Divinity +2, Astral Fire Chainmail +1, Defensive Longsword +2
RITUALS
Gentle Repose

Renchard
2010-01-22, 04:38 PM
Warlord. Warlord + rogue is a kick-butt combination, and they won't need the increased healing power a cleric brings.

Excession
2010-01-22, 07:32 PM
One thing to look at when faced with this sort of decision is what skills you can bring to the party. We don't have quite enough information here, but if, for example, your party is weak in perception or insight then the cleric can cover those skills. If you need a party face, or at least someone with a high Cha that doesn't settle arguments with a dagger, then a Str/Cha warlord is a good choice. Basically, pick something (in combat and out) that fills the gaps in the rest of the party; it'll give you something to do if nothing else.

For both your builds I would say that you've spread your ability scores too far. You should start at level 1 with at least a 16 in your attack stat, usually an 18 if your race boosts it. Buying an 18 is also possible, just be careful of what you lose in secondary stats and defences. Don't try and do everything, specialise in what you do and rely on the rest of the party for the things you don't do.

FoE
2010-01-22, 07:33 PM
If you already got two casters, go with a warlord. And your stats are terrible.

The J Pizzel
2010-01-22, 08:04 PM
If you already got two casters, go with a warlord. And your stats are terrible.

Meaning? Did I not get them high enough? I spread them too thin like Excession said? Should I have 20's or something? Could you define terrible?

vasharanpaladin
2010-01-22, 08:10 PM
You shouldn't be starting with your primary stat below 18 after racials. :smallfrown:

Mando Knight
2010-01-22, 08:23 PM
It'll only last two or three levels. Ending up with double 18s rather than a 19 and a 17 or some such is fine.

The J Pizzel
2010-01-22, 08:57 PM
It'll only last two or three levels. Ending up with double 18s rather than a 19 and a 17 or some such is fine.

That's why I did that. If I started with 18, then upped it to 19 at level 4 it'd be useless, since we're prolly not even gonna make it to level 8. Even if we do, it'll be for maybe one session. So I figured I'd save some points and end up with all around better stats for higher defenses and such. Was that a bad idea?

Beleriphon
2010-01-22, 09:27 PM
Meaning? Did I not get them high enough? I spread them too thin like Excession said? Should I have 20's or something? Could you define terrible?

You've spread them too thin in the areas that matter most for your characters.
You should be looking at a 16 to start in a primary stat, so your attack stat. Secondary can be 16 as well, and probably should be, other stats should be around 12 if you plan on using them, otherwise don't worry about it too much.

The J Pizzel
2010-01-22, 09:41 PM
OK. I understand that. What I'm saying is that if I put 16 in primaries, then use racial to up them to 18....then use level 4 bonus to put up to 19 it's a +4 modifier. We won't be playing long enough to worry about the level 8 bonus. So it stays at +4.

Or, I can put a 15, use racial for 17, use level 4 for 18 and I've still got a +4, but this way I've saved the point buys for those scores. Now I can get a little more bang in secondary abilities for defenses etc.

I've already said that won't last long. Even I put a 19, we won't play long enough for a 20. Why not save those points?

Are y'all telling me I should be putting a 17, then using racial for 19 then level 4 bonus for 20 and getting a +5? Cause completely kills my other scores.

Evard
2010-01-22, 10:15 PM
Warlord! Why? Because they are probably the most useful leader outside of healing....specially with a rogue in the party because a rogue's sneak attack damage die can only be used once a round BUT if the rogue rolls low he/she can say he ain't using it for that attack therefore having a warlord lets the rogue attack again and try for a better result on the sneak attack.

Warlord + fighter (at will knockdown power) + rogue = crap load of hurt...

fighter knocks the enemy down, rogue attacks (doesn't like his SA or does), warlord attacks with a daily or encounter or at will and then the rogue gets to attack again. pain

Ent
2010-01-22, 10:24 PM
I'm biased and think that Clerics are better, as I'm currently playing one.

My reasoning is that my party is not very coordinated and no matter what they end up doing, I can usually be an effective leader and have fun using my abilities. I couldn't imagine playing a Warlord with a group who isn't really together; but you mention that you believe your group is/will be, so Warlord might be a lot of fun for you.