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The Ogre
2010-01-22, 04:44 PM
Hello fellow GitP members. I'm in need of assistance for a dread necromancer that I'm currently building. This is what I have so far for stats and feat selection.

17, 15, 15, 14, 12, 11

Neutral Human Dread Necromancer 20
1: Tomb-Tainted Soul, SF(Necromancy)
3: Gr. SF(Necromancy)
6: Undead Leadership
9: Spell Penetration
12: Gr. Spell Penetration
15: Maximize Spell
18: Heighten Spell
19: Craft Wondrous Item

MWP: Guisarme

For the stats, I will most likely be going with Str14, Dex15, Con15, Int12, Wis11, and Cha17. My familiar is most likely going to be a Quasit. As for advanced learning spells, I'm still waiting to get back with my DM to see if I'm allowed access to the BoVD spells, but Awaken Undead is the only spell that I know for certain that I'm getting.

Any and all suggestions are welcome. Please keep your suggestions limited to the books that I have listed in my signature.

Thanks.

Optimystik
2010-01-22, 04:49 PM
1) Ghostly Visage is the best familiar.

2) Necromancy Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5584.0), come back with questions.

faceroll
2010-01-22, 04:51 PM
I recommend being a necropolitan and dumping con, if you can. Otherwise, stick with the 15.

You may want to check out the feat Arcane Disciple, as it adds a whole domain worth of spells to your spell list. Another feat that would be good would be versatile spell caster. It allows you to use lower level spell slots to fuel higher ones. Combined with heighten spell, you get early access to higher level spell spells.

If you pick up the feat Planar Touchstone (catalogues of enlightenment) and choose the deathbound domain, you get 3x instead of 2x you CL when making undead.

JaronK
2010-01-22, 04:57 PM
For spells, see here: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2242.0

For feats, consider Sickening Grasp (+1 caster level on all necromancy spells, and all touch attacks sicken enemies) and Imperious Command (when you intimidate people, they cower. Combine with fear aura for extra fun).

JaronK

Deth Muncher
2010-01-22, 05:06 PM
I'm a fan of the Vargouille (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/vargouille.htm), personally. Sure, you don't get Fear Fo' Free, but you DO get the ability to incite mayhem amongst citizens of a town.

Other than that, you definitely seem to have the Infinite Healz Lolz trick covered, which is good. I wonder, though, why you don't pick up the Corpsecrafter line of feats. Unless you're focusing on the debuffer necromancer as opposed to the Undead controlling one?

Also, a pity you can't get CMage items, as there's a few, like the Corpsewalker Ring or some such that'd be great.

The Ogre
2010-01-22, 05:18 PM
If I had access to Fiend Folio, a Ghostly Visage would be my familiar. Although seeing as how I don't have access to it, I'm going to have to stick with a Quasit for now.

Being a Necropolitan is going to be pretty hard to achieve with our party starting off at level 2. I'll talk with my DM and see if I can make a "loan" for my character to start off as a Necropolitan and hope to work my debt off.

I can swap my Wis and Str scores around for Arcane Disciple and pick the Undeath domain.

Thanks for the link JaronK. What book does Sickening Grasp come from? Because I'm quite unfamiliar with that feat. As for Imperious Command, I don't have access to Drows of the Underdark, but would Frightful Presence(Draconomicon) be a decent replacement?

JaronK
2010-01-22, 05:22 PM
Sickening Grasp is in Complete Mage. Frightful Presence IIRC only works on people with less HD or doesn't stack with other fear effects... I forget which, but I remember that it wasn't very good for some reason.

JaronK

faceroll
2010-01-22, 05:24 PM
The Undeath domain is extraordinarily subpar for picking up with arcane disciple, since you have pretty much all those spells on your spell list. I would get Travel, since fly, dimension door, and teleport are freakin' awesome. Travel domain is thematically appropriate, imo, what with Charon and the river styx and all that stuff. Time would also make a good choice, since you can haste your minions.

The Ogre
2010-01-22, 05:52 PM
I don't find the Corpsecrafter feats to be necessary since most if its bonuses don't stack with the Dread Necromancer's Undead Mastery ability.

Undeath seemed fitting since it would give me access to Desecrate and made Animate Dead easier to access by being a spell lower. The only deities, from the books that I own, that I can recall with the Travel domain are Fharlanghn, Cyndor, Geshtai, Mouqol, Osprem, Procan, and Aasterinian. So I'll probably go with Fharlanghn as my deity.

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-01-22, 05:54 PM
You don't need Tomb Tainted if you are starting at 20, since you turn into Undead at that point. Waste of a feat.

faceroll
2010-01-22, 05:56 PM
I'd consider picking up Desecrate with an advanced learning, but ymmv.

The Ogre
2010-01-22, 05:58 PM
Unless there is some errata that I'm unaware of, Desecrate is an Evocation spell.

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-01-22, 05:58 PM
I'd consider picking up Desecrate with an advanced learning, but ymmv.

Seconded. Unhallow as well, if you plan on going for tonz o Minions

Edit Bah, forgot they were Evocation... hooray for randomizing schools FTL

faceroll
2010-01-22, 06:01 PM
Unless there is some errata that I'm unaware of, Desecrate is an Evocation spell.

Whoa, that's totally random. So it is. It's definitely something I'd want in scroll form. Do Dread Necros get UMD?

mikej
2010-01-22, 06:08 PM
Do Dread Necros get UMD?

No

Put it's in the Evil domain which could be excessed via Arcane Disciple.

Optimystik
2010-01-22, 06:10 PM
Or you can dip Cleric and get it via Precocious Apprentice. It lasts 2 hours at level 1, or you could Practiced Caster it up to 8 10.

faceroll
2010-01-22, 06:14 PM
I'd either cross-class UMD it, or get the rogue or whatever to help me. It's not like you need to be casting it all the time.

deuxhero
2010-01-22, 06:18 PM
Unless there is some errata that I'm unaware of, Desecrate is an Evocation spell.

And if I were the DM, I'd allow a DN to pick it up.

The Ogre
2010-01-22, 06:27 PM
I might just ask my DM if I could do that. He's pretty lenient about these sort of things.

JaronK
2010-01-22, 06:31 PM
There's actually an online supliment Ring that provides desecration, so you don't need the spell.

JaronK

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-01-22, 07:05 PM
All you really need to know about the Ghostly Visage is that it stays constantly melded with you, effectively possessing your character, which imparts its undead immunity to mind-affecting effects on you. At will it can manifest over your face, activating a gaze attack with a 30 ft. range which causes opponents who fail a Will save (DC 13 + 1/2 HD) to be paralyzed with fear for 1d4 rounds. Note that with all gaze attacks, it can spend a standard action every round to force a target to save or be affected, even if looking away. It is unattackable when melded, any attacks against it when manifest which miss due to its incorporeal miss chance hit your character instead.

Ask your DM if your DN Undead Mastery can be substituted for Corpsecrafter as a prerequisite for other feats like Nimble Bones, Bolster Resistance, etc. since the two are so similar.

Definitely get Awaken Undead via Advanced Learning. Get a Razorboar skeleton, an Arrow Demon skeleton, a Cave Troll skeleton, etc. and Awaken them all so they get back all of their special attacks/qualities, feats, skills, etc. Get a Slaymate and maybe even Spellstitch it with spells like (Mass) Curse of Impending Blades, Benign Transposition, cloud effects, etc. While you're at it, Spellstitch yourself and maybe even go with a race that can take Magic in the Blood (PGtF) so you can use all of its spell-like abilities 3/day. Also be sure to get Animate Dread Warrior from Unapproachable East, and make up some choice minions. Note that there's no limit to the number of Dread Warriors you can have under your control. Consider taking Versatile Spellcaster, though it tends to be a lot more useful as you level up than starting at an extremely high level. Item Familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm) is also extremely useful.

If you're starting at 20 as a Lich, be sure to say you became a Lich within the area of a Desecrate spell with an evil altar present to permanently get free buffs.

The Ogre
2010-01-22, 07:25 PM
Is Spellstitched a template from Complete Mage or Complete Arcane? Because if it is, that might convince me into buying Complete Mage.

Where are people getting this idea that my group is starting at level 20? Just to be clear, I stated in my 2nd post that my group is starting at level 2.

mikej
2010-01-22, 07:36 PM
Is Spellstitched a template from Complete Mage or Complete Arcane?

Complete Arcane.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-01-22, 08:11 PM
In that case, I would definitely start out with Versatile Spellcaster if your DM will allow you to gain early access to the next level of spells with it. If he rules that the feat alone doesn't grant you knowledge of the next level of spells, take Arcane Disciple so that you can cast spells of that level in practice thereby gaining knowledge of all spell of that level. This will also allow you to gain higher level spells with Advanced Learning.

See if you can get Improved Unarmed Strike in place of martial weapon proficiency, then pick up Ascetic Mage and wear a Monk's Belt to get your Cha bonus to AC. It's not extremely important, since you can wear light armor and use a mithral buckler, but still something to consider for later on.

Necropolitan has a one level XP cost, but no financial cost. It's more often forced on a character than sought out, so just work it into your backstory. Be sure to say that you were made into one by another DN with Undead Mastery, Corpsecrafter, every feat that requires Corpsecrafter, and within the area of a Desecrate spell with an evil altar present.

magic9mushroom
2010-01-23, 01:24 AM
In that case, I would definitely start out with Versatile Spellcaster if your DM will allow you to gain early access to the next level of spells with it. If he rules that the feat alone doesn't grant you knowledge of the next level of spells, take Arcane Disciple so that you can cast spells of that level in practice thereby gaining knowledge of all spell of that level. This will also allow you to gain higher level spells with Advanced Learning.

Remind me how this works?


Necropolitan has a one level XP cost, but no financial cost. It's more often forced on a character than sought out, so just work it into your backstory. Be sure to say that you were made into one by another DN with Undead Mastery, Corpsecrafter, every feat that requires Corpsecrafter, and within the area of a Desecrate spell with an evil altar present.

Necropolitan is always sought out and never forced. Basically, there's a city full of undead, described in Libris Mortis, that takes applications to undergo the Ritual of Crucimigration, which makes you into a Necropolitan. It's questionable whether all those things you specified apply to the ritual, and since there's a 1 level + 1000 XP cost, with the explicit specification IIRC that if you're reduced to less than 0 XP, you just die, it's impossible to work into a 2nd level backstory unless you have "being a 3rd level character" as part of said backstory, which most DMs would frown on.

The Ogre
2010-01-23, 06:24 PM
I've talked to my DM about my character and he has granted me the right to add Desecrate to my spell list as a 2nd level spell. However, he denied my character from being a Necropolitan, access to BoVD, and the Leadership/Undead Leadership feats. So after looking through K's Necromancy guide and talking with the other players, this is what I have so far for my feat progression and advanced learning spells.

1: Tomb-tainted Soul
B: SF(Necromancy)
3: Gr. SF(Necromancy)
6: Corpsecrafter
9: Nimble Bones
12: Heighten Spell
15: Spell Penetration
18: Gr. Spell Penetration
19: Craft Wondrous Item

LV2: Rigor Mortis
LV4: Wrack
LV6: Awaken Undead
LV8: Avascular Mass
LV9: Astral Projection

I'm not too proud of this set up, but it's the best I can come up with. My main objective is to be the party's debuffer while having my undead minions provide additional melee support for the rest of my party.