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View Full Version : Help with characters in a gestalt game [3.5]



Fendalus
2010-01-22, 09:52 PM
Ok, our DM has decided to run a gestalt game, and two of us players have run into problems. The game will be running from level 5 to about level 10. Stats are 28 PB or roll, and we have 5x average class starting wealth in addition to 2-3 magic items (Which must be approved by the DM). Any books allowed (unless the DM says otherwise after being asked if we can use it). We are allowed to use flaws, so long as they have an actual impact on the character. Our DM has banned monks as a class because he thinks that monk is overpowered as a gestalt side. I don't understand why on that last one, but it doesn't affect me. Directly, anyway (see first character).

Now, on the the characters that need help:
First, we have the Half-Ogre Fighter//Barbarian. The problem is that he wants to get into the Drunken Master prc at 6th level... Getting him Dodge, Great Fortitude, and Improved unarmed strike isn't a problem, it's the flurry of blows and evasion requirements that have caused problems. In addition to this, we can't figure out how LA is supposed to work in gestalt. This is in addition to the writing gaps in the class itself (you still take the -4 for improvised weapons), so any help you can provide would be appreciated.

*EDIT* The DM has just said that the LA applies to only one side, so that's good news.

Second, we have my character, the Warforged Binder//Warlock. Here, it's just seeing if I'm screwing myself over with my feat selection, for help selecting my invocations, and tips on which vestige to choose for Knight of the Sacred Seal. I'm planning on taking Mithral body, Improved Binding (Paid for with Flaw:Poor Reflexes), Weapon Focus: Eldritch blast(KoSS required feat, 3rd level feat), and either Expel Vestige or Ignore Special Requirements (My 4th level Binder bonus feat). I might take Apprentice(Spellcaster) from DMG II if my DM will let me and if I keep getting the Skill points each level. In exchange I plan on taking the Flaw:Vulnerable. I also have no idea how to distribute my stats (I rolled 18,14,13,11,10,10), so any help would be appriciated.

Thank you for your help.

Jack_Simth
2010-01-22, 10:11 PM
Umm... I think I can see why your DM thinks Monk might be overpowered when used in Gestalt? Neither you nor the fellow player you're asking us to help target mechanical optimization.

LA: How it interacts with Gestalt is not specified. Many DM's will let it replace class levels - in which case, you've got a nice setup, as while the Sorcerer-10//Paladin-10 is about CR 11 or 12, the Sorcerer-10//Asimar (LA+1) Half Dragon (LA+3)/Half-Celestial(LA+4) Paladin-2 is more along the lines of CR 13 or 14. Other DM's will have it apply both ways (so the 10th level Phrenic Gestalt Sorcerer//Paladin has eight class levels), and others will have you split the LA between sides (so the 10th level Gestalt Phrenic Sorcerer//Paladin has nine class levels). Unfortunately, this means: Ask your DM, not us.

As to character builds:
I first have a question: How strong do you want to get, and how much are you willing to alter the builds?

Fendalus
2010-01-22, 10:21 PM
The DM responded that LA only applies to one side, with the other side just counting as that level would in a normal character.

I have no idea how much my friend (the Half-ogre) is willing to alter his build, and I'm not dropping Improved binding or the class distribution, KoSS, feats and stat/invocation distribution is still up in the air. The only other character we have is a Rouge/Sorcerer, focused on using the sorcerer to boost the rouge parts (Half of the spells she want's are not on the beguiler list, so she chose sorcerer). Likely not that optimized a party. But this DM has pulled a DMPC (or 5, more like it) on us before, so being able to turn things up to at least good optimization would be nice in case he does that again.

Jack_Simth
2010-01-22, 10:37 PM
Okay then.

The Friend:
From a power standpoint, your friend has chosen a really bad build: Most of what you get out of Fighter, you get out of Barbarian (martial weapon proficiencies, full bab, good Fort save, large hit die), and vice-versa. There's much too much overlap from a power perspective.

Additionally, in choosing a Monk-specific PrC in a game where Monk has been banned, your friend is asking for trouble. While Evasion can be gained by a two-level dip in Rogue, Flurry is a lot rarer of a find. You might point the DM to the Prestige Class header in the DMG, and ask him about customizing the Drunken Master PrC to accommodate for the unavailability of the Flurry feature of the monk (read the DMG PrC chapter fully before attempting this!).

Your Build: I'm not sufficiently familiar with either Warlock or Binder to dispense useful advice.

Fendalus
2010-01-22, 11:36 PM
Ok, I asked the DM if he would consider changing the requirements of the Drunken master prc and my friend if he would consider using a ToB class instead of fighter.

Does anyone have any advice for my Binder//Warlock?

Sstoopidtallkid
2010-01-22, 11:48 PM
Ok, I asked the DM if he would consider changing the requirements of the Drunken master prc and my friend if he would consider using a ToB class instead of fighter.The problem is that Barbarians main features in Gestalt are Good BAB, d12 HD, Good Fort, and Rage. Warblade, Crusader, Fighter, all get basically all of that except Rage. He's fine going Barbarian as long as the other side is Rogue or something. Something with a role besides beatstick. You have 2 classes to use, use 2 different classes.

Now, assuming Barb on one side:
Druid: Bear+Rage+buff spells=Profit
Scout: Ubercharger+move-based damage+bonus feats+skillpoints=MORE CHOPPA!!!
Rogue: Even MORE CHOPPA! Plus, SA with a greataxe.
Bard: Snowflake Wardance, IC, and you've added more to your AB than most Barbarians BAB. And then you hit people in the head with drumsticks. Power Attack for full.
Duskblade: You stand in the back, light armor, cast a fireball, then smash the enemies that charge the squishy caster.

Fendalus
2010-01-23, 02:44 AM
Ok, the DM eased the restrictions from drunken master, so my friend will be ok.

Now, does anyone have any suggestions for a Warforged Binder//Warlock? I also have no idea how to distribute my stats (I rolled 18,14,13,11,10,10), or what invocations to take.

Thanks for the help so far.

Eloel
2010-01-23, 06:54 AM
Ok, the DM eased the restrictions from drunken master, so my friend will be ok.

Now, does anyone have any suggestions for a Warforged Binder//Warlock? I also have no idea how to distribute my stats (I rolled 18,14,13,11,10,10), or what invocations to take.

Thanks for the help so far.

18 Cha, 14 Dex, 13 Con, 11 Str, 10 Wis, 10 Int. Use your binder stuff 2 rounds out of 5 (they have 5 round cooldown), and go blasting, possibly with blast effects for the rest 3. Rinse & Repeat.