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Volthawk
2010-01-23, 02:39 PM
When does this ranger variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger) actually GET the wild shape and fast movement?

Just wondering because if it gets Wild Shape at first level, you could go into Master of Many Forms at level 2, right?

Haruspex_Pariah
2010-01-23, 02:44 PM
At the same level as the druid, apparently.

"These variants simply swap one or more of that class's features for one or more class features of another class. A class feature gained works just as it did for its original class, including the level at which it is gained and any other effects, except as noted below. "

Soranar
2010-01-23, 02:44 PM
yes you qualify for MOMF

but

your wildshape progression is the same as a druid

which means you need 5 levels

Volthawk
2010-01-23, 02:48 PM
At the same level as the druid, apparently.

"These variants simply swap one or more of that class's features for one or more class features of another class. A class feature gained works just as it did for its original class, including the level at which it is gained and any other effects, except as noted below. "

Ooops. Missed that.

Although I did guess that, since prestige classes at level 2 seemed just a bit odd.

Sstoopidtallkid
2010-01-24, 02:42 PM
Ooops. Missed that.

Although I did guess that, since prestige classes at level 2 seemed just a bit odd.Survivor is enterable at 2. There are Mystic Theurge builds that can enter at 3, and the classic Master Specialist is intended to be snagged at 4. Heck, Divine Minion lets you use MoMF at 4, IIRC.

Volthawk
2010-01-24, 05:01 PM
Where is Survivor? Gotta see this for myself

Dusk Eclipse
2010-01-24, 06:31 PM
Survivor is inSavage Species IIRC, it is great for NPC's or maybe gestalt it gives no bab bonus, I believe all good saves and evasion and other survival related abilities (evasion, mettle uncanny dodge)

sonofzeal
2010-01-24, 07:03 PM
Survivor is inSavage Species IIRC, it is great for NPC's or maybe gestalt it gives no bab bonus, I believe all good saves and evasion and other survival related abilities (evasion, mettle uncanny dodge)

0 BAB (not even 1/2), all good saves, imp. evasion, imp. uncanny dodge, DR 5/-, but NO mettle. Oh, and like d8 HD.

Riffington
2010-01-24, 09:06 PM
To be fair, survivor wasn't designed to be accessible at lev 2. That was a mistake on the designers' part, but one that they found too funny to want to fix.

tyckspoon
2010-01-24, 09:16 PM
To be fair, survivor wasn't designed to be accessible at lev 2. That was a mistake on the designers' part, but one that they found too funny to want to fix.

To be even more fair and accurate, the only class that can enter it that early is Commoner anyway- it requires that your level be higher than your highest save, so the only way in that early is with a class that has all bad saves.

Volthawk
2010-01-25, 10:56 AM
To be even more fair and accurate, the only class that can enter it that early is Commoner anyway- it requires that your level be higher than your highest save, so the only way in that early is with a class that has all bad saves.

Oddly enough, it uses a half-orc fighter as an example, even though he wouldn't qualify!:smallbiggrin:

Person_Man
2010-01-25, 12:50 PM
Fist of the Forest is enterable at level 4. IIRC Stoneblesed is enterable at level 3. Assuming you have racial hit die, you can enter some PrC at level 1.

faceroll
2010-01-25, 12:55 PM
When does this ranger variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger) actually GET the wild shape and fast movement?

Just wondering because if it gets Wild Shape at first level, you could go into Master of Many Forms at level 2, right?

MoMF needs BAB +4, so you can enter at level five with a changeling.

sofawall
2010-01-25, 01:07 PM
Survivor is enterable at 2. There are Mystic Theurge builds that can enter at 3, and the classic Master Specialist is intended to be snagged at 4. Heck, Divine Minion lets you use MoMF at 4, IIRC.

And some that enter at 2.

Volthawk
2010-01-25, 01:29 PM
MoMF needs BAB +4, so you can enter at level five with a changeling.
No, it doesn't. It needs Alertness, Endurance and Wild Shape.

deuxhero
2010-01-25, 01:30 PM
Endurance? Sounds like it was meant for Wildshape rangers.

arguskos
2010-01-25, 01:39 PM
And some that enter at 2.
Wait wut. I know most of the early entry tricks, and I don't know that one. I am assuming it has something to do with Precocious Apprentice and someway to make your spells count as arcane and divine, but how does the latter happen?

Dr Bwaa
2010-01-25, 01:41 PM
Endurance? Sounds like it was meant for Wildshape rangers.

It basically is, since otherwise it's a "druid" class with no casting and no animal companion.

Vizzerdrix
2010-01-25, 01:49 PM
And some that enter at 2.

None can enter at level 2 due to the skill requirements. 6 ranks are needed in both skills and you can't get that until 3rd level

Volthawk
2010-01-25, 01:51 PM
It basically is, since otherwise it's a "druid" class with no casting and no animal companion.

Well, it does get some nice things, which the Druid gets with Epic feats (Gargantuan, Diminutive, Dragon and Vermin Wild Shape), some things he can't get from feats (Ooze, Aberration, Humanoid,Fey,Monstrous humanoid and Giant Wild Shape, Wild Shaping as a move action,extraordinary abilities of forms and speaking while in Wild Shape and Shapechanger subtype ) and more wild shapes (total of 10, one each level).

ErrantX
2010-01-25, 01:53 PM
None can enter at level 2 due to the skill requirements. 6 ranks are needed in both skills and you can't get that until 3rd level

You'd think that... but you'd be wrong. Judicious use of a bardic ability, a psionic power, and the right feats and you can enter for your 2nd level. You'd suck, but you could still get into it.

-X

Volthawk
2010-01-25, 01:54 PM
You'd think that... but you'd be wrong. Judicious use of a bardic ability, a psionic power, and the right feats and you can enter for your 2nd level. You'd suck, but you could still get into it.

And what would they be?

TheFallenOne
2010-01-25, 02:07 PM
When does this ranger variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger) actually GET the wild shape and fast movement?



Well, the Wildshape one has been answered very fast, but nobody mentioned the Fast Movement

That variant gets it at first level(since the Barbarian does so too) but don't you think it's strange that this variant gets Fast Movement without having to sacrifice anything for it unless he decides to take a now dead second level?

deuxhero
2010-01-25, 03:02 PM
Hmm, does a Wolf Totem barb 2/wildshape ranger 3 stack his speed boosts (I know I can trade them)?

Ernir
2010-01-25, 03:08 PM
Hmm, does a Wolf Totem barb 2/wildshape ranger 3 stack his speed boosts (I know I can trade them)?

No, you'd just get the Barbarian's Fast Movement "again".

So yes, do trade one of them out for an ACF. And by that I mean Pounce. :smalltongue:

Sstoopidtallkid
2010-01-26, 12:07 AM
You'd think that... but you'd be wrong. Judicious use of a bardic ability, a psionic power, and the right feats and you can enter for your 2nd level. You'd suck, but you could still get into it.

-XNot if you play by WBL.

deuxhero
2010-01-26, 12:19 AM
No, you'd just get the Barbarian's Fast Movement "again".

So yes, do trade one of them out for an ACF. And by that I mean Pounce. :smalltongue:

I don't think you can take both Wolf Totem AND spirit tiger.

LibraryOgre
2010-01-26, 01:00 AM
Hey, turns out I still have the spreadsheet of simple variants I did a few years ago!

GoogleDocs link (http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Au-uL96OTnzjdF9JTjg3QVo2V2ZqbW13X3NDN0VJMkE&hl=en)

Looking at them, I'd probably go with the Crafty Hunter Barbarian. The Deadly Hunter druid would be interesting, especially with a parsimonious GM, and the wildshape ranger.

faceroll
2010-01-26, 01:03 AM
No, it doesn't. It needs Alertness, Endurance and Wild Shape.

Oh. I was thinking of warshaper.


You'd think that... but you'd be wrong. Judicious use of a bardic ability, a psionic power, and the right feats and you can enter for your 2nd level. You'd suck, but you could still get into it.

-X

Hypothetically, but they're all beyond the WBL of a 2nd level character.
And I see now that I was ninjad.

Sstoopidtallkid
2010-01-26, 01:06 AM
Hypothetically, but they're all beyond the WBL of a 2nd level character.
And I see now that I was ninjad.How did I ninja you? The last post before mine was 9 hours ago.

Volthawk
2010-01-26, 10:45 AM
Am I right in thinking that these rangers don't get elemental wild shape?

Ernir
2010-01-26, 11:58 AM
I don't think you can take both Wolf Totem AND spirit tiger.

Spirit Lion, right?
And why wouldn't you? They trade out different class features, and even if you don't refluff them there is no clause about the totems requiring monotheistic devotion.
(The only Barbarian I have leveled beyond 1 was indeed a Wolf Totem Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian, if memory serves.)


Am I right in thinking that these rangers don't get elemental wild shape?
Huh. I can read it two different ways.

1. "You may only assume the forms of small and medium animals."
2. "Your animal forms may only be small or medium in size."

So... ask your DM? :smalltongue:

Volthawk
2010-01-26, 12:00 PM
Huh. I can read it two different ways.

1. "You may only assume the forms of small and medium animals."
2. "Your animal forms may only be small or medium in size."

So... ask your DM? :smalltongue:

Well, I probably wont use it, as I would probqably go into MOMF anyway. That was just curiosity.