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ArcanistSupreme
2010-01-23, 04:29 PM
I'm currently running a campaign in which I want the characters to be taken prisoner and left in jail to rot. Obviously, I don't want this to be the end of the campaign, so I want them to be able to escape. The tricky part is doing this without making it way too easy or leading them by the nose.

Setting:
Fortress city inhabited mainly by clerics, paladins, and other holy crusader types ( EDIT: most will be warriors). These guys see themselves as the good guys, and the PCs know this and will be forced to avoid killing them (or be forced to kill as few as possible).

Party:
The party consists of either four or five 5th level characters. A barbarian (high intimidate), a druid, a sorcerer/favored soul, a heavily optimized barbarian/bard/warblade, and possibly a duskblade. I want all players to be able to contribute to the escape, but I also want obvious precautions to be taken against their abilities (ie, antimagic cells).

Other Issues:
Another issue is their equipment. They will obviously have this taken from them, and I want them to be able to get it back eventually. I don't want it to be easy and I don't mind them be forced to live without it for a little while. The final issue is communication. The party will not all be in the same room or even the same building. What would be a good way to facilitate communication without breaking credibility?

Gamgee
2010-01-23, 04:32 PM
So much irony in one title... can't take it. *head explodes*

ArcanistSupreme
2010-01-23, 04:48 PM
I try. And while guards having their heads explode from too much irony might facilitate an escape, that might be viewed as a bit of a Deus ex Machina:smallwink:

Beorn080
2010-01-23, 04:49 PM
Does the fortress city have any manner of gladiatorial arena? Or other sort of dangerous but not specifically fatal punishment? Then have the guards start talking in front of the prisoners about one of their number, though perhaps either not specifically which one or directly to the prisoners. Then they know where at least one of them is going to be at a specific time. Also would let one of them get their equipment back while forcing the others to improvise.

ArcanistSupreme
2010-01-23, 05:00 PM
I'm not sure about gladiatorial combat (seems distinctly un-paladinish), but perhaps one of the characters could be enlisted to help fight off a big monster. Though the trick in this case would be why they needed a 5th level character's help when the fortress has at least a few dozen NPCs of this level or higher.

Beorn080
2010-01-23, 05:11 PM
Could Geas one of the nonlawfuls of the party to complete a stealth mission involving nonlawful means.

Tackyhillbillu
2010-01-23, 05:14 PM
Have a turncloak among the Paladins. Say he'll help the characters escape in return for stealing some powerful macguffin. He can carry messages, and deactivate certain features of the prison to allow them to escape.

ArcanistSupreme
2010-01-23, 05:52 PM
Th turncoat solves all of the problems and is by far the easiest solution, and it even comes with a plot hook. But what happens if the characters aren't willing to work with him/her? These characters have been known to reject perfectly reasonable offers before, so I want alternate escape routes that can be used if necessary.

potatocubed
2010-01-23, 05:55 PM
Security systems are only as good as the people operating them, and people are fallible. Perhaps a door that should remain closed at all times is propped open so a guard can nip out for a fantasy-equivalent-cigarette whenever he feels the need. Perhaps somebody has written down their password because they can't remember it. Perhaps someone has overheard someone else's password (or stolen it, or stolen a key, or been given it for the sake of expediency) and the PCs can get it without having to go through the (much more dangerous) other guy.

Beorn080
2010-01-23, 06:00 PM
Well, you got three bookless spellcasters there. Those three should be able to engineer an escape somehow, especially if you have them transferred or something. Not sure what a duskblade gets, but the barbarians should do some bend bars checks. They'll roll a 20 eventually.

Bibliomancer
2010-01-23, 06:18 PM
For facilitating communication, prisons have rats. The druid can use the rats to carry messages (I'm sure the players will be able to improvise writing materials).

Even if they're separated, they will probably get some time to walk around (the jailers are paladins, after all) and they can set up a code to be carried by the rats during 'recess', if necessary.

One issue I can see is this: will your PCs really restrain themselves? Some groups don't bother worrying about alienating law enforcement officials, and my group has routinely killed elite government agents to avoid losing treasure.

I doubt that the prison is wealthy enough to have antimagic cells (a casting of antimagic costs 1200gp, assuming you can find a caster who's interested in the first place. Just say that they're bound and gagged, and have aforementioned rats chew through the druid's bounds, or have one of the players use Still Spell (if they have it) to escape. Better yet, have the duskblade NOT be bound, since he looks like a melee combatant (which allows him/her to participate). Combine duskblade spells with barbarian strength, and you've got a jailbreak going.

ArcanistSupreme
2010-01-23, 06:59 PM
This is a well established and old fortress city, so antimagic cells are not out of the question. They might be a little shoddy, such as a corner that isn't covered by the field, but I think it's feasible that a town filled with holy warriors has at least one cleric of a high enough level.

As for character restraint, a couple of them might not be too concerned, but they will have to worry about bringing the entire population of the fortress, including a few mid-level NPCs, down on their heads. Fighting a few guards might be possible, but making a stand or fighting their way out won't be a viable option.

As for breaking the bars, the break DC for an iron bar is 28 (pg 61 DMG), so even if the barbarian rolls a 20 while raging, there's no way that he'll be able to hit that DC.

Right now I'm leaning toward the "human's are fallible" concept, but any ideas to either supplement this or flesh it out would be more than welcome.

Flickerdart
2010-01-23, 07:21 PM
Antimagic Field is normally centred on the caster. Assuming that this is an item, the field will be radiating from it. So the cell itself isn't Anti-magicked, but a tile, or a fixture on the ceiling/in the floor would be. If they can figure out which one it is and destroy it (difficult, as it would probably be adamantine) then the field drops.

DabblerWizard
2010-01-23, 07:28 PM
If this is a 4e game, this would be a great time for the druid to use the Animal Messenger ritual on a rat, much like what was suggested above.

Going along with fallible humans, let your players bluff their way into getting out of the jail cell. Paladins don't have to be super insightful you know.

Maybe one of the guards is particularly simple minded, and doesn't see a problem with letting you "just hold" the cell door key, which you conveniently "lose".

herrhauptmann
2010-01-23, 07:36 PM
Have the jailers (on a predictable schedule) gather prisoners together. Perhaps in the yard for 'exercise,' or they get taken to a room with grates in the floor and hosed off with the Decanter of Endless Water (on geyser) or whatever it's called.
It might take a few times before the party knows the routine well enough to orchestrate their own attempt.

Granted, the exercise could be something from Victorian England. Passing a 40 pound medicine ball in a circle" for 2 hours was both 'exercise' and punishment back in the day. As was putting prisoners on a treadmill for several hours. Problem with the treadmill was that it was in a room the size of the treadmill, and quickly got hot and humid (~100F, and indoor rainstorms), which made it more difficult.
Being lawful just means they follow prison guidelines, which means no random beatings by the guards. Being 'good' could mean that elderly prisoners are not forced to perform the more strenuous exercises. Nothing about Lawful Good jailers means that prisoners are fed 3 square meals a day, allowed to receive mail, and shower nightly.

The party could gain the aid of other prisoners who're far along in their own attempts (think Count of Monte Cristo).
Heck, to keep things from getting bogged down, create 4 or 5 groups of NPCs to aid the PCs. The trick to that? If you're running the escape attempt of the duskblade, give the players of the barbarian, druid, favored soul, and warblade an NPC to control. This way the other players get to contribute while you're focusing on each individual PC.

herrhauptmann
2010-01-23, 07:41 PM
Maybe one of the guards is particularly simple minded, and doesn't see a problem with letting you "just hold" the cell door key, which you conveniently "lose".

Come on, that's utterly ridiculous. On the level of idiocy. Maybe if a player manages to cast a charm or suggestion on the guard, but only then.

I also like the idea of Druid using animal messenger. Straight up from the Evil Overlord list #42 (http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html), and totally undefeatable unless there is an ironclad reason beyond DM fiat that there are no rats in the prison.

ArcanistSupreme
2010-01-23, 08:04 PM
It's 3.5e, so no animal messenger, sorry. Moronic guards are also out. The schedule thing is also a good idea, and I'll consider the Count of Monte Cristo thing.

I love the idea of PC NPCs, but that could lead to suicidal NPCs, which is a little ridiculous. I guess that I could promise a reward for surviving NPCs. Thoughts?

herrhauptmann
2010-01-23, 08:17 PM
I love the idea of PC NPCs, but that could lead to suicidal NPCs, which is a little ridiculous. I guess that I could promise a reward for surviving NPCs. Thoughts?
The NPCs say something along the lines of "When we get out of here and I get home, feel free to stop by the town of X. The wife would love to meet you, or My parents would like to offer their thanks for my safe return."

Turns out the parents are filthy rich nobles. Or the wife is an epic cleric who will cast the resurrection spell for free when a party member is murdered and his body stolen.

Ok, the animal thing can still work, even in 3.5. What's the DC and time spent to train a rat to fetch something?

Kylarra
2010-01-23, 08:23 PM
Ok, the animal thing can still work, even in 3.5. What's the DC and time spent to train a rat to fetch something?A week and a DC 15 handle animal check.

ArcanistSupreme
2010-01-23, 08:29 PM
I just meant no animal messenger ritual. The handle animal DC is 15 for fetch and 20 for track. I think it would need to be some sort of combination of these tricks, and it would take two weeks to train the rat both tricks. This could be fun.

By the way, that list is hilarious.

Flickerdart
2010-01-23, 08:31 PM
Your players might also draw inspiration from the exploits of one Mr. Welch (http://theglen.livejournal.com/16735.html).

Gralamin
2010-01-23, 08:31 PM
I just meant no animal messenger ritual. The handle animal DC is 15 for fetch and 20 for track. I think it would need to be some sort of combination of these tricks, and it would take two weeks to train the rat both tricks. This could be fun.

By the way, that list is hilarious.

You have a druid. Druids can cast Animal Messenger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/animalmessenger.htm) in 3.5 just fine.

AgentPaper
2010-01-23, 08:49 PM
The party would probably be kept in two cells. The casters would be in the anti-magic cell while the others are in a high-security cell with extra-reinforced bars, maybe adamantine or similar. They don't keep the prisoners in separate cells, since they only have one of each of these types. Anti-magic and adamantine are both expensive, and mostly not needed for normal prisoners, so it's not hard to imagine why they wouldn't have more than one of each type.

Now, as for actual escaping, you said this is an old fortress, so there might be some run-down bits, and the cells might not be perfectly maintained. Perhaps the anti-magic field is weakening, allowing spells to be cast in the back of the room sometimes. Just give spells cast from the back row of the cell a 80% failure chance, or some such. For the adamantine cell, well, the bars themselves are adamantine, but they're probably in a stone framework, and one or more might have started to get a bit loose. With a bit of work grinding away the stone over a few days, while the guards aren't looking, and they could have a bar loose and ready to be broken out when it comes time to make good their escape.

If the guards think one of the casters is a wizard, they might move him out of the anti-magic cell after the first day, since they figure he can't cast without his book. They might also take one of the martial types out of the high-security cell and into a normal cell if they think it'll be more trouble to have them all together in the adamantine cell than it would be to have one of them in an iron cell, probably with extra guards just in case.

The duskblade might also be mistaken for just another martial-type character, especially if they haven't seen him cast spells, so you might have a caster in the adamantine cell, which could prove useful, even if all his spells are combat-oriented.

As for the equipment, that'd probably be in a single, secure place, probably in the same place they keep most of their other valuables. They're lawful, so if your players are being held before getting a fair trial (another chance to escape, or prove their innocence, either fairly or with tricks) then they won't use them or sell them off or anything. Getting into the vault where the items are kept should prove a challenge, but the other valuables and magic items there should make up for that easily.

If you want, you could have a few of the party's magic items be missing, either for good or to be tracked down. A nice holy relic or two, like a holy avenger greatsword once wielded by the paladin who founded their order, would be another good addition. They could take the valuable relic, but if they do, they paladins will hunt them down to the ends of the earth, and if it's a big, noticeable item like a weapon or armor, they'd have to take care to hide it, or the paladins will be able to track them more easily, and paladins of other orders will be very curious as to how a non-paladin came into it's possession.

ArcanistSupreme
2010-01-23, 08:59 PM
ArgentPaper: Those are all excellent ideas, but how do I convey them to the players without out saying, "Gee, that one bar looks pretty loose." The players are likely to give up after casting one or two spells, so if one of those doesn't succeed, or if they aren't standing in the exact spot they need to be when they attempt that, how do I get them to keep trying? I was thinking of having an area that was under a sort of permanent create food/water effect so they could tell that magic was possible in the cell. Is that too obvious?

Charlie Kemek
2010-01-23, 09:02 PM
Th turncoat solves all of the problems and is by far the easiest solution, and it even comes with a plot hook. But what happens if the characters aren't willing to work with him/her? These characters have been known to reject perfectly reasonable offers before, so I want alternate escape routes that can be used if necessary.

you could set it up so that the intimidate heavy barbarian intimidates the jail guard to set up the turncoat.

ArcanistSupreme
2010-01-23, 09:05 PM
The issue with that is it I have to either make the barbarian think to do that, which would be difficult to do without being super obvious, or essentially play his character for him, which would be way lame.

Flickerdart
2010-01-23, 09:06 PM
ArgentPaper: Those are all excellent ideas, but how do I convey them to the players without out saying, "Gee, that one bar looks pretty loose." The players are likely to give up after casting one or two spells, so if one of those doesn't succeed, or if they aren't standing in the exact spot they need to be when they attempt that, how do I get them to keep trying? I was thinking of having an area that was under a sort of permanent create food/water effect so they could tell that magic was possible in the cell. Is that too obvious?
If they want, Spellcraft or Knowledge (Arcana) checks to learn about the Antimagic Field spell's range. Is the cell larger than the range? It is? Then find out where it isn't active. A high enough Search or Spellcraft should reveal where the effect is present.

Charlie Kemek
2010-01-23, 09:10 PM
The issue with that is it I have to either make the barbarian think to do that, which would be difficult to do without being super obvious, or essentially play his character for him, which would be way lame.

True, but if you give them 2-3 options, they're bound to figure out one of them. maybe if you make it so that they are all in separate areas, and they all have to figure out their own way out, and the barbarian only has so many options if he can't bend the bars, or break the jail itself.

Jack_Simth
2010-01-23, 09:16 PM
It's 3.5e, so no animal messenger, sorry. Moronic guards are also out. The schedule thing is also a good idea, and I'll consider the Count of Monte Cristo thing.

I love the idea of PC NPCs, but that could lead to suicidal NPCs, which is a little ridiculous. I guess that I could promise a reward for surviving NPCs. Thoughts?
Are you certain that there is no Animal Messenger spell in D&D that the party Druid can use? (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/animalMessenger.htm)

ArcanistSupreme
2010-01-23, 09:18 PM
Good points. I keep forgetting about player knowledge vs. character knowledge. And I forgot about redundant escape plans. I think I've got the escape portion just about planned out now. The only issue now is gear recovery. How do they get back in after the whole complex has put on high alert? Or how do I make it so they can somehow get the gear on their way out (this is less desirable)?

P.S.-How do you do the quote thing? EDIT: Figured it out.

Flickerdart
2010-01-23, 09:19 PM
P.S.-How do you do the quote thing? EDIT: Figured it out.
Button in the lower right-hand corner of a post, or [quote] tags.
EDIT: Okay. :smalltongue:

ArcanistSupreme
2010-01-23, 09:20 PM
Are you certain that there is no Animal Messenger spell in D&D that the party Druid can use? (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/animalMessenger.htm)

Yeah, someone else posted that. Completely forgot about that spell.

Jack_Simth
2010-01-23, 09:29 PM
Yeah, someone else posted that. Completely forgot about that spell.

You're right. Did you see my signature line, perchance?

Doomboy911
2010-01-23, 09:33 PM
Well I don't know if someone has said this but you could have them all talk to each other during lunch maybe have a riot break out where they managed to steal some makeshift weapons of lower quality (So they can fight just not all that well.) Now in order to escape you could have someone in the prison who's dug a massive tunnel for anyone to escape through but has rigged it with traps. Now they have the option of making their own way out or following the other guy who you could have fall into a trap at the beginning.(So they have to run through on their own) Maybe some monsters have begun to make it their new home. Halfway through the tunnel could give way and they're stuck in a part of the prison that they shouldn't be.

ArcanistSupreme
2010-01-23, 09:37 PM
You're right. Did you see my signature line, perchance?

Yeah, that's pretty funny.


Well I don't know if someone has said this but you could have them all talk to each other during lunch maybe have a riot break out where they managed to steal some makeshift weapons of lower quality (So they can fight just not all that well.) Now in order to escape you could have someone in the prison who's dug a massive tunnel for anyone to escape through but has rigged it with traps. Now they have the option of making their own way out or following the other guy who you could have fall into a trap at the beginning.(So they have to run through on their own) Maybe some monsters have begun to make it their new home. Halfway through the tunnel could give way and they're stuck in a part of the prison that they shouldn't be.

So you are suggesting a heavily modified Count of Monte Cristo escape. That could be pretty cool, and it would certainly help with gear recovery. The only issue is that it kind of makes everything else we've come up with obsolete.

Doomboy911
2010-01-23, 10:13 PM
Well what have you come up with you could always let them decide whether to take the dangerous tunnel or find another tunnel out. With the tunnel it would merely be a very direct path.

ArcanistSupreme
2010-01-23, 10:45 PM
So, can anyone think of a good way to help the PCs get their gear back?

Beorn080
2010-01-23, 10:48 PM
Sheriff's sale perhaps? Would be an interesting chance for them to trade some of their gear around with the other items in the sale. A quick disguise check or illusion spell and your set. I wouldn't make it too hard though.

Dimers
2010-01-23, 10:58 PM
So, can anyone think of a good way to help the PCs get their gear back?

Not exactly, but ... saying to the players "Gosh, if only you had your Magical Thingie of Awesomeness right now, you could break right out" once or twice will get them to create lots of ideas on their own. If you're good at extemporaneous extrapolation, that works just fine.

jiriku
2010-01-24, 12:12 AM
Escape Plan:
An enjoyable thing to do is to develop the personalities of the jailors PCs will interact with. They could be won over to the PCs' side, tricked, dragged into a janitor's closet and intimidated, or whatever your PCs think of doing. Making them individuals will encourage players to interact with them instead of just treating them as video-game guards. After all, if your PCs are really the good guys, the jailors should start thinking to themselves "These guys aren't just the usual rabble. I kind of like them."

Joining an existing escape plan also has potential.

Backup Escape Plan:
You don't really need to worry here. If the jail has a set routine, a collection of fallible, individualistic guards, and good but imperfect security, your players will develop their own plans.

Equipment:
Simply decide that their equipment is not available to be found. Anything else strains credibility. That would be like arresting terrorists who were about to blow up something important in America and transporting their AK-47's and explosives with them to the prison, then keeping that stuff in storage on the prison grounds. Only a criminally incompetent warden would do something like that.

Communication:
PCs can communicate with each other during mealtime, exercise time, and during work times (I'm assuming prisoners will be conscripted to perform tasks like laundry, cooking, and cleaning). Existing prisoners may have an established system of passing notes through certain higher-status prisoners or sympathetic guards who have more freedom to move about the prison.

Anti-Magic Fields:
Opinion? Anti-magic cell = terribly old chestnut, and often smells like DM fiat. It's also terribly hard to work around, and just generally isn't a level-appropriate obstacle. Try something new.
For example, drugged food. An on-site alchemist with his own herb garden can mix striped toadstool and id moss into the food for all spellcasters. Likewise, lacing the water with scorpion or spider venom is an effective way to keep the I-use-steroids-every-day crowd docile. If using poison to control inmates is too morally shady for you, you can simply invent a set of "sedatives" that have similar effects.
A ball-and-chain around the ankle also serves marvelously against low-strength casters.
So does the simple expedient of keeping them under 24-hour surveillance. A sap to the head at the first sign of spellcasting solves a lot of problems.

PC NPCs:
Be wary! Most players don't like this.

Think about it from the player perspective. They put considerable time and effort into creating their PCs and developing backstories, and come to your game sessions expecting to have a good time playing at being hero.

Instead, they are forced into a fight they can't win, captured, and dragged off to prison. Their stuff is taken from them. The spellcasters have their spells taken away and the melee characters get locked behind unbreakable bars. Then you tell them they can't even play their characters; instead they'll have to play yours. Further, you've already decided how they'll have to play these NPCs and reckless actions are off limits or highly discouraged. Moreover, even attempting to act heroic and fight their way out is a bad idea, because their jailors are the good guys and many powerful NPCs nearby woulds step in and rofflestomp them. However, you've already decided on an escape plan for them, so all is not lost if they'll do what you say.

Many players will get frustrated with this. They showed up to be heroes and fight bad guys, not put their characters away or have their cool powers neutralized. Most players like to have a great deal of freedom of action rather than be forced into must-lose scenarios or restricted to limited options. Now, I'm not trying to rain on your parade, I'm just cautioning you, be wary! You may want to tinker with your plan to give your players more choice.

Flarp
2010-01-24, 12:45 AM
So, can anyone think of a good way to help the PCs get their gear back?

Precisely how long will they be captured before making their escape? If it's longer than a week... I don't seem them still being there. If less, they might still be being inspected/transfered.

Attilargh
2010-01-24, 05:03 AM
Those are all excellent ideas, but how do I convey them to the players without out saying, "Gee, that one bar looks pretty loose."
If you want to give them a hint that the stonework's not quite what it used to be, have the wardens put the prisoners to work on fixing some other part of the keep.

On gear: As jiriku pointed out, it does strain credibility a bit to keep the confiscated stuff on prison grounds. Instead, they're being stored in some kind of purpose-built vault under the temple/head honcho's manor/guard barracks. That way, not only do the players have to plot how to break out of the prison, they need to figure out how to break in to the vault.

Agi Hammerthief
2010-01-24, 05:25 AM
have you read The Last Continent by Terry Pratchett?
the "hero" Rincewind is thrown into a prison there which has really strong bars and unpick-able locks,
shame you could actually lift the gates out of the hinges.
One prisoner that famously escaped several times scribbled a message on the ceiling (readable while lying on the bed) "look at the hinges - Ned"


are they going to be thrown in jail without a trial??!

Kelb_Panthera
2010-01-24, 06:35 AM
The biggest problem I see here isn't how you're going to get them out of the can, but how you're going to get them in. I can say with certainty that at least 2 of my players would sooner have their characters fight to the death than be captured. That 10 point window between staggered and dead isn't very big to begin with and it only gets smaller as the characters' levels go up. Even worse, you've got a sorcerer. Even after gimping himself with those FS levels he's still a freakin' sorcerer. When things start to go south at the capture event, he might decide to abandon ship and come back later to try and rescue the others. Though I suppose that might actually be beneficial to your situation.

GolemsVoice
2010-01-24, 07:13 AM
Maybe the Paladins are of the kind that think that everyone can be converted back to the good cause, and that criminals (assuming your PCs don't sit for some extraordinary crime) are only mislead. They gather the prisoners once per week, or on a shedule you set, and elcture them and try to help them see the error of their ways in some sort of class. Of course, security will be maintained, but it might give the characters a chance to get in contact with each other and their fellow prisoners, and the casters a chance to get out of the antimagic field. They wopuld still be shackled to keep them from casting, and an extra guard would be assigned to them, but you could give them a check to try to cast regardless of that (one to cast in spite of the schackles, one to avoid being seen, providing none of the casters has metamagic feats that allowe them to cast without their hands or their voice)
Depending on how well the PCs behave, they might earn themselves privilges, like more time outside of their cells, books, or even a room where they can write under the close eye of a guard. All these things, combined with sleight of hand and other checks, could provide means to scribe a spell, connect with each other, and so on.

PhoenixRivers
2010-01-24, 07:15 AM
I'm currently running a campaign in which I want the characters to be taken prisoner and left in jail to rot. Obviously, I don't want this to be the end of the campaign, so I want them to be able to escape. The tricky part is doing this without making it way too easy or leading them by the nose.

Setting:
Fortress city inhabited mainly by clerics, paladins, and other holy crusader types ( EDIT: most will be warriors). These guys see themselves as the good guys, and the PCs know this and will be forced to avoid killing them (or be forced to kill as few as possible).

Party:
The party consists of either four or five 5th level characters. A barbarian (high intimidate), a druid, a sorcerer/favored soul, a heavily optimized barbarian/bard/warblade, and possibly a duskblade. I want all players to be able to contribute to the escape, but I also want obvious precautions to be taken against their abilities (ie, antimagic cells).

Other Issues:
Another issue is their equipment. They will obviously have this taken from them, and I want them to be able to get it back eventually. I don't want it to be easy and I don't mind them be forced to live without it for a little while. The final issue is communication. The party will not all be in the same room or even the same building. What would be a good way to facilitate communication without breaking credibility?

My thoughts:

The difference between a standard prison and a supermax IRL is funding and training. No prison warden wants weak spots in his prison, and, if he's good, he'll know about them. He just may not have the resources available to correct them, and therein lies the ability to make a moderately escapable prison without breaking verisimilitude.

Examples:Not enough payroll to fully guard the place. Result: Gaps in guard coverage, lightly patrolled areas, or low number of guards for prisoner escort (perhaps as low as 2).

Less than optimal design funding. Result: Prisoner holding areas aren't seperated from communal/guard areas by Sally Ports, locks are of less than stellar quality.

Less than optimal maintenance funding. Result: Guards equipped with less than optimal gear, structural weak points exist, due to rust and rot.

On communication? Two options. Either loose lipped guards provide information unknowingly (party overhears gossip), or introduce possible sympathizers. The orderly that delivers food or inspects minor injuries may have a clue that the PC's are innocent, and may ferry brief messages.

ArcanistSupreme
2010-01-24, 08:59 AM
Thank you all for the wonderful advice. I'm sure that now I'll be able to get the PCs into and out of this situation without them feeling that they are trapped and unable to do anything.

Side note: All of the PCs except the sorc/fs are guilty. They did a pretty brutal double murder of a couple of paladins that were trying to bring them in for another crime that they didn't really commit. Only a couple of them have a high bluff, and it would be silly if the people running the trail didn't have a high sense motive.

Doomboy911
2010-01-24, 02:36 PM
You could also have one person not get captured and be set to help everyone. Maybe have their supplies be somewhere else so they can't get to them in time. Than the friend that got away can grab them and sneak into the prison with them. Or as an added change the paladins could be blackguards pretending to be paladins. They could be running a whole city letting the people believe they're run by paladins.

deuxhero
2010-01-24, 03:09 PM
:xykon:'s Moderately Escapeable Force Cage?

Agi Hammerthief
2010-01-24, 03:17 PM
Side note: All of the PCs except the sorc/fs are guilty. They did a pretty brutal double murder of a couple of paladins that were trying to bring them in for another crime that they didn't really commit. Only a couple of them have a high bluff, and it would be silly if the people running the trail didn't have a high sense motive.

So they owe the other pallies 10000gp worth of diamonds to raise those two?
sounds like a good reason for forced labour to me.

Danin
2010-01-24, 04:49 PM
As for recovering items, why not make it a separate little adventure? They've escaped, lay low for a while and ask around. They find out that the Paladins have a compound in the city where many of the annexed items are held. Maybe they even accept the help of a thief guild to get them back, not realizing that the thieves plan to steal several other items and use the PC's as a scape goat and abandon them if they get caught.

After that, I'd imagine fleeing the city would make for a rather exciting session. Dodging patrols of men looking for them, fighting quick and dirty before more guards show up. It also maintains verisimilitude and allows the PC's to develop a little infamy. Outlaying towns with wanted posters and the like.

ArcanistSupreme
2010-01-24, 05:13 PM
As for recovering items, why not make it a separate little adventure? They've escaped, lay low for a while and ask around. They find out that the Paladins have a compound in the city where many of the annexed items are held. Maybe they even accept the help of a thief guild to get them back, not realizing that the thieves plan to steal several other items and use the PC's as a scape goat and abandon them if they get caught.

After that, I'd imagine fleeing the city would make for a rather exciting session. Dodging patrols of men looking for them, fighting quick and dirty before more guards show up. It also maintains verisimilitude and allows the PC's to develop a little infamy. Outlaying towns with wanted posters and the like.

This idea definitely has merit and I'd love to try it. But why would the paladins keep the equipment? As several others have pointed out, this isn't that plausible.


:xykon:'s Moderately Escapeable Force Cage?

Thank you for getting the joke. I was beginning to think nobody would.

Doomboy911
2010-01-24, 09:59 PM
Alright well as I said before have the city be run by blackguard masquerading as paladins, who just arrest people for minor offenses just to steal their weapons.So after they bust out of prison they have to show the town that they're being mistreated.

jiriku
2010-01-24, 11:57 PM
In a d&d world, I'm thinking the PCs' gear will be classified as "loot" and distributed to those who captured them as a reward for a job well done, or classified as "quest rewards" and used by the castle's rich and powerful as incentives when hiring adventurers. This means that some of their gear may be in a secure storage location, intended as a reward when adventuring party XYZ returns from a quest, but other items will already have been distributed, and the players will have to take them back from their new owners.

The escaping players may even get a rematch against the group that first captures them (when this group is sent to hunt them down again), except this time the members of this group are now armed with some of the PCs gear!

Flickerdart
2010-01-25, 12:04 AM
This idea definitely has merit and I'd love to try it. But why would the paladins keep the equipment? As several others have pointed out, this isn't that plausible.

What else would they do with them? Sell them off to the highest bidder? Throw them out the window? The belongings of those imprisoned are held until such a time that the imprisoned are either released or executed.

Kylarra
2010-01-25, 12:12 AM
What else would they do with them? Sell them off to the highest bidder? Throw them out the window? The belongings of those imprisoned are held until such a time that the imprisoned are either released or executed.Yeah, I agree with this.

It's the equivalent of having your stuff impounded. It probably will be one of the more well guarded areas, either in the prison itself or in a separate compound related to the prison, but it's not going to randomly disappear somewhere.

The New Bruceski
2010-01-25, 12:29 AM
If the fortress is big enough and they're not the Guests of Honor for their crimes, they're also pretty unrecognizable if they can get the right gear. If they can get out of their cells and to their gear (likely in impound) then they may be able to walk right out, passing themselves off as bounty hunters or merely travelers stopped for supplies depending on how you portray the fort. If there's no non-guard folk then they need to steal uniforms, but that could still let them walk right out in a world without photo ID or a universal database of employees. For extra tension have them run into somebody who knows one of the guys they took a uniform from, or a prison riot breaks out as they're nearby, encouraging them to stay and fight to maintain cover. Just be careful to put these in as obstacles instead of a DM Fiat of "that doesn't work."

ArcanistSupreme
2010-01-25, 08:35 PM
Excellent points everyone. Thanks again for the feedback!

Doomboy911
2010-01-25, 10:30 PM
Your welcome. Pretty neat idea