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CTLC
2010-01-23, 04:40 PM
apparently i am now playing a warlock. of the necropolitan star elf variety.
any tips, especially for feat choices, and ways to possibly get a wee bit more utility in there?

mostlyharmful
2010-01-23, 05:28 PM
If you want utility beyound creative uses of WBL then Warlocks the wrong class.

Cute_Riolu
2010-01-23, 05:35 PM
If you want utility beyound creative uses of WBL then Warlocks the wrong class.

That's not what he asked, now is it?

If you're sixth level, there's Extra Invocation. There's also more dragon-themed invocations in Draconomicon. At fourth level, you can take ten with Use Magic Device, so stock up on a lot of magic baubles, scrolls, and wands.

CTLC
2010-01-23, 05:36 PM
thanks riolu, ill look at the draconomicon. are that and the CA the only sources of invocations?

Cute_Riolu
2010-01-23, 05:38 PM
I think so. There might be some homebrew ones that you can run by your DM, though. I don't know where they are, though.

Optimystik
2010-01-23, 05:39 PM
thanks riolu, ill look at the draconomicon. are that and the CA the only sources of invocations?

No, there's some in CM, and others spattered in other thematic supplements (e.g. some Incarnum-flavored (and awful) ones in MoI.)

AslanCross
2010-01-23, 05:39 PM
Bump up Use Magic Device and invest in wands.

Darrin
2010-01-23, 05:41 PM
thanks riolu, ill look at the draconomicon. are that and the CA the only sources of invocations?

Dragon Magic, actually. Complete Mage has a few, and I think Cityscape has a couple.

faceroll
2010-01-23, 05:42 PM
Draconomicon has nothing relating to warlocks in it. You want Dragon Magic.

[EDIT]
GET IN THE CAR, IT'S A NINJA

Cute_Riolu
2010-01-23, 05:42 PM
How wrong I am! I'll have to look those up, myself.

CTLC
2010-01-23, 06:12 PM
is there any way to increase the damage of eldritch?

Sinfire Titan
2010-01-23, 06:14 PM
Expedition to Castle Ravenloft has a magic item that gives you a permanent additional Least Invocation. 20K.


There's a couple of feats and abilities in the WotC's archives. Take a look at the Warlock Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2915.0) for info. I know there's a feat that gives you a Dragonic Invocation.

Fiendish Codex 2 has the best Warlock PrC ever invented, the Hellfire Warlock.

A Ladder
2010-01-23, 07:34 PM
is there any way to increase the damage of eldritch?

the feat Mortal Bane from BoVD is a +2d6 up to 5 times a day.

the item Chausable of Fell power (Greater) in CA is a +1d6 (+2d6).

Hellfire Warlocks get a + to eldritch blast (Fiendish Codex II)

CTLC
2010-01-23, 07:49 PM
ill see if my dm lets me hellfire even though im a necropolitan.
Ladder, ill check those out.
so, we mostly fight outsiders, but i bought my chasuble!
thanks a ton

olentu
2010-01-23, 07:50 PM
ill see if my dm lets me hellfire even though im a necropolitan.
Ladder, ill check those out.
BoVD?

Book of vile darkness.

CTLC
2010-01-23, 08:16 PM
thanks
i now have 4d6 damage at level 4, not too shabby, also, for invocations ive taken glaive, spear and i have one left.

i have a way to get all the wands i could need, so i really just need combat helpful invos.

Sophismata
2010-01-23, 08:28 PM
PrC: Hellfire Warlock
Feat: Shape Soulmeld (Strongheart Vest)

Highly recommended.

CTLC
2010-01-23, 08:31 PM
thats incarnum right?
also, i will hellfire for sure
and i went with hammerblast, simply because its an urban setting and taking out chunks of building is amazingly handy

Fendalus
2010-01-23, 08:36 PM
PrC: Hellfire Warlock
Feat: Shape Soulmeld (Strongheart Vest)

Highly recommended.

Only problem is if the Stongheart vest breaks the "No immunity to con damage" bit. Because it essentially provides DR1/- for ability damage, it might. Several page debates have gone on about this, and no clear answer at the end. It's not clear, so Ask Your DM(tm).

Taking a level of binder and binding Naberius, however, does work, as you DO take the damage, you just Regen it at the end of your turn.

Sinfire Titan
2010-01-23, 08:39 PM
Hellfire Warlock specifies that you can't use it's main class feature if you are Undead.

Fendalus
2010-01-23, 08:43 PM
Hellfire Warlock specifies that you can't use it's main class feature if you are Undead.

Not directly, but as undead are immune to damage to their physical ability scores, and if you are immune to the con damage you can't use hellfire... Same effect, really.

Sophismata
2010-01-23, 08:46 PM
Oh crap, he's a Necropolitan. My bad - he cannot use Hellfire Blasts regardless. He doesn't even have a Con stat.

CTLC
2010-01-23, 09:03 PM
but i got a d12 hit die :smalltongue:

hrm, still asking dm about hellfire, just incase, supposedly im a fiend in a body. not just a warlock, so i should be able to supply the hellfire on meh own...

anything else to raise eldritch blast damage?
what feats should i have at level 4?

faceroll
2010-01-23, 10:00 PM
Meh, just take a level in binder and tell your DM that the mechanical effect of not worrying about con damage has been paid for.

Darrin
2010-01-23, 11:31 PM
anything else to raise eldritch blast damage?
what feats should i have at level 4?

Dip something to pick up sneak attack, then get into Unseen Seer, and attack from invisible/darkness/sniping/etc.

taltamir
2010-01-23, 11:35 PM
thanks
i now have 4d6 damage at level 4, not too shabby, also, for invocations ive taken glaive, spear and i have one left.

i have a way to get all the wands i could need, so i really just need combat helpful invos.

how are you doing 4d6 at level 4? you should be doing 2d6 at this level.

To up the damage, you can use "empower spell like ability", "maximize spell like ability" and "quicken spell like ability" from one of the monster manuals (forgot which)

as mentioned there is hellfire and sneak attack...

you can take improved critical (ranged touch attack) which increases the crit range of all weaponlike spells (elderitch blast is a weaponlike spell) crit on a 19-20 instead of just 20 (for 2x damage).

Fendalus
2010-01-23, 11:38 PM
He's probably using a Chausable of Fell power, but he probably wouldn't be able to afford the greater one, just the lesser one, bringing it up to 3D6. 4D6 as soon as he levels.

CTLC
2010-01-23, 11:40 PM
how are you doing 4d6 at level 4? you should be doing 2d6 at this level.

To up the damage, you can use "empower spell like ability", "maximize spell like ability" and "quicken spell like ability" from one of the monster manuals (forgot which)

as mentioned there is hellfire and sneak attack...

you can take improved critical (ranged touch attack) which increases the crit range of all weaponlike spells (elderitch blast is a weaponlike spell) crit on a 19-20 instead of just 20 (for 2x damage).

1. greater chausable fell thing.
2.not worth the cost, and not at this level
3. hellfire i cant do yet, will be looking into sneak.
4. not worth the feat

Fendalus
2010-01-23, 11:56 PM
1. greater chausable fell thing.

That costs 18,000 gp. Good luck affording that at level 4. The lesser one only costs 8,000, so you might get one on your way to level 5.

Tokiko Mima
2010-01-24, 05:46 AM
Only problem is if the Stongheart vest breaks the "No immunity to con damage" bit. Because it essentially provides DR1/- for ability damage, it might. Several page debates have gone on about this, and no clear answer at the end. It's not clear, so Ask Your DM(tm).

Taking a level of binder and binding Naberius, however, does work, as you DO take the damage, you just Regen it at the end of your turn.

I don't buy the argument that Strongheart Vest shouldn't work per RAW. DR 1/- is not immunity to HP damage, why would soaking the first few points of ability damage be considered the same as immunity to Constitution damage? Immunity to ability damage, or not having a CON score to damage are specific things that are spelled out in the RAW, and the Vest doesn't fall under either of those categories.

Both Naberius and Strongheart are cheesy workarounds though, and are definitely not RAI. The designers made a pretty obvious effort to close loopholes to make sure the CON damage meant something as a penalty. Personally, I would either disallow them both as trying to sneak around a balancing penalty you get for the increased damage, or make the CON damage from Hellfire into Ability Burn (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm#abilityBurn) damage.

On the topic, remember that since your Invocations and Eldritch Blast are standard actions, you almost always have a free move action. Use it wisely, every turn you can. Your ranged attack is solid and will rarely miss as you gain level, but it's sort of low damage. If you take Weapon Finesse, you can use your DEX bonus on Eldritch Blast attack rolls and not worry so much about Strength.

Take advantage of cover and 5' steps to stay out of melee unless you have the tools to be a glaivelock. Your invocations provoke AoO's and trigger spell resistance just like spells, so even through you are less squishy, be aware that it's not a good idea for you to be trapped, surrounded, or especially grappled.

Hideous Blow is a hideous choice of an invocation, always. It looks tempting, (hooray, I get to use a sword and add Eldritch damage to it!) but it has so many negatives to it that it's a penalty to use in almost every situation.

If you want to be able to go nova, the feats Empower SLA, Maximize SLA, and Quicken SLA are all open to warlocks and can be used 3/day to rather devastating effect, especially combined with Hellfire Warlock + Eldritch Glaive in there. It actually gets a bit ridiculous, and it's one of the ways you can legitimately do 1000+ damage in a single round in D&D.

You're passing the level where it's useful, but one of the best low level invocations is Summon Swarm, but it's also one of the first you trade out. It's fantastic at levels where a 1d6 of damage still kills things. Also better than it looks is Baleful Utterance, because there's just an amazing amount of things that are fun to break, from belt buckles, to locks, to spell component pouches, to doors, to glass golems, to clothing, etc.

Keep in mind that the lesser invocation Voracious Dispelling is almost better than it's greater cousin, because Voracious allows you to use dispel magic in all three modes, without touch being required. There's a lot of stuff you can do with an unlimited number of dispel magics.

Kelb_Panthera
2010-01-24, 05:57 AM
It doesn't really matter. He's necropolitan. No con score, no hellfire. Incidentally, does anyone else have trouble typing necropolitan without thinking of ice-cream?

huttj509
2010-01-24, 06:17 AM
Me.

Strawberry, chocolate, and why is the vanilla leaping out of the container trying to suck the birthday boy's soul?

Edit: maybe "and the vanilla's made from bone dust!" would be better, as I thin the template just makes undead, not, like, evil soul sucking devour birthday boys undead.

Tokiko Mima
2010-01-24, 06:21 AM
It doesn't really matter. He's necropolitan. No con score, no hellfire. Incidentally, does anyone else have trouble typing necropolitan without thinking of ice-cream?

Completely true.

I'm just saying that I can't see how people will say that Strongheart doesn't work on a supposed technicality, but not see that both methods are obviously not meant to work. Neither method works for a Necropolitan, of course.

And yeah, I have trouble with that too. Though Necropolitan Neapolitan would probably not taste as good, having given up a level of flavor to become a lifeless, but still creamy confectionery. :smalltongue:

Sophismata
2010-01-24, 11:49 AM
If you take Weapon Finesse, you can use your DEX bonus on Eldritch Blast attack rolls and not worry so much about Strength.

Ranged attack rolls already add Dexterity, no need to take Weapon Finesse.



I'm just saying that I can't see how people will say that Strongheart doesn't work on a supposed technicality, but not see that both methods are obviously not meant to work. Neither method works for a Necropolitan, of course.

Basically, it was mentioned that there is controversy on the point. I don't think anyone wants to actually bring that controversy into the thread :P.

sombrastewart
2010-01-24, 11:56 AM
You're level 4, right? Eldritch Spear is not going to be helpful. You'll get far more use out of invocations like Spiderwalk, Entropic Warding or Baleful Utterance.

CTLC
2010-01-24, 02:00 PM
ill probably change my invos right now.
but, i dont think the necropolitan is worth it if i cant hellfire.
so, any ideas on templates i should take?

taltamir
2010-01-24, 06:09 PM
You're level 4, right? Eldritch Spear is not going to be helpful. You'll get far more use out of invocations like Spiderwalk, Entropic Warding or Baleful Utterance.

I don't get the eldritch spear hate... I'd much rather hit things from 250 feet away (and safely out of their range) then 60 feet away. and when you get flight at level 6, from 250 in the air... with entropic warding.

CTLC
2010-01-24, 06:17 PM
ive been debating it, but in an urban setting either shooting from walls or roofs is quite nice. im gonna take it

CTLC
2010-01-26, 04:25 PM
does the hellfire damage apply to the first glaive attack, all glaive attacks, or none of them?

Sstoopidtallkid
2010-01-26, 04:28 PM
All. Really good in combination with Quicken SLA.

CTLC
2010-01-26, 04:35 PM
so im a level 5 hengeyokai sparrow warlock. who will take a level of binder and levels of hellfire later. any ideas on feats i should take, mostly a sniper leaning heavy on the blasting, but has glaive to fight in melee. when he has to.

Darrin
2010-01-26, 05:35 PM
so im a level 5 hengeyokai sparrow warlock. who will take a level of binder and levels of hellfire later. any ideas on feats i should take, mostly a sniper leaning heavy on the blasting, but has glaive to fight in melee. when he has to.

If you're going Glaivelock, then pick up Weapon Finesse so you get your Dex bonus on melee attacks. Oh, and keep in mind that invoking Eldritch Glaive every round still provokes an AoO, so make sure you maximize Concentration so you can cast/invoke defensively.

Something else you want to keep in mind, while in Sparrow form, you're fine-sized and your reach = 0 ft. So the Glaive can only hit targets that are in your square, and entering another creature's square provokes an AoO. You can counter that by lots of ranks in Tumble or the Elusive Dance feat (Dragon #333).

Underfoot Combat and Confound the Big Folk will also help you enter an enemy's square, and render him flat-footed to all your attacks next round. The skill requirement (10 ranks of Tumble) makes these feats difficult to acquire, though... you'd have to pick up those feats at ECL 9 and 12, unless you were using Favored and Primary Contact (Cityscape), in which case you could get them at ECL 6 and 9. I would only recommend this if your DM allows you to retrain feats, since your feats are so scarce and Favored/Primary Contact become dead weight after ECL 7.

To add Tumble as a class skill, you can take Martial Study: something from Desert Wind, such as Burning Blade, Distracting Ember, or Wind Stride.

CTLC
2010-01-26, 05:49 PM
im not a glaivelock, its only if needed, id rather not be in sparrow form while fighting as i need it for ...other things.
i am going to go warlock w/e / when its time ill take two levels of incarcnate [or ill take these first] and then hellfire for three levels then either uncanny trickster or legendary champion to further hellfire.

A Ladder
2010-01-26, 06:30 PM
pick up the invocation that lets you use the shatter spell at will. (i cant remember what it's called, but it's least and in Complete Arcane). then you dont have to worry about blasting down doors, or whatever. you can just shatter them.

shatter also scales with your level, allowing you to destroy bigger and bigger things as you level.

edit:
if you don't want the LA from hengeokai you could look into water halflings (Unearthed Arcana). they get +2 Con +2 Dex, -2 Str, water breathing and a few other useful things.

CTLC
2010-01-26, 06:40 PM
pick up the invocation that lets you use the shatter spell at will. (i cant remember what it's called, but it's least and in Complete Arcane). then you dont have to worry about blasting down doors, or whatever. you can just shatter them.

shatter also scales with your level, allowing you to destroy bigger and bigger things as you level.

edit:
if you don't want the LA from hengeokai you could look into water halflings (Unearthed Arcana). they get +2 Con +2 Dex, -2 Str, water breathing and a few other useful things.

the LA was taken away by making them humanoids in a dragon magazine
and yes to baleful utterance!!!

Dusk Eclipse
2010-01-26, 06:52 PM
Question: Even though the eldritch glaive has reach do you need to enter your enemy square in sparrow form? since it has reach I think you could attack adjacent enemies.

sofawall
2010-01-26, 06:58 PM
If you're going Glaivelock, then pick up Weapon Finesse so you get your Dex bonus on melee attacks. Oh, and keep in mind that invoking Eldritch Glaive every round still provokes an AoO, so make sure you maximize Concentration so you can cast/invoke defensively.

Something else you want to keep in mind, while in Sparrow form, you're fine-sized and your reach = 0 ft. So the Glaive can only hit targets that are in your square, and entering another creature's square provokes an AoO. You can counter that by lots of ranks in Tumble or the Elusive Dance feat (Dragon #333).

Underfoot Combat and Confound the Big Folk will also help you enter an enemy's square, and render him flat-footed to all your attacks next round. The skill requirement (10 ranks of Tumble) makes these feats difficult to acquire, though... you'd have to pick up those feats at ECL 9 and 12, unless you were using Favored and Primary Contact (Cityscape), in which case you could get them at ECL 6 and 9. I would only recommend this if your DM allows you to retrain feats, since your feats are so scarce and Favored/Primary Contact become dead weight after ECL 7.

To add Tumble as a class skill, you can take Martial Study: something from Desert Wind, such as Burning Blade, Distracting Ember, or Wind Stride.

I think you already use dex, unless something ni the invocation says otherwise.

tyckspoon
2010-01-26, 07:05 PM
I think you already use dex, unless something ni the invocation says otherwise.

It strikes as per a glaive. A touch-attack glaive, so it qualifies for weapon finesse, but still a glaive. Which means it defaults to being based on Str like every other melee weapon.

Darrin
2010-01-26, 07:44 PM
Question: Even though the eldritch glaive has reach do you need to enter your enemy square in sparrow form? since it has reach I think you could attack adjacent enemies.

From the SRD, Combat Section, Big and Little Creatures in Combat:

"Tiny, Diminutive, and Fine Creatures: Very small creatures take up less than 1 square of space. This means that more than one such creature can fit into a single square. A Tiny creature typically occupies a space only 2-1/2 feet across, so four can fit into a single square. Twenty-five Diminutive creatures or 100 Fine creatures can fit into a single square. Creatures that take up less than 1 square of space typically have a natural reach of 0 feet, meaning they can’t reach into adjacent squares. They must enter an opponent’s square to attack in melee. This provokes an attack of opportunity from the opponent. You can attack into your own square if you need to, so you can attack such creatures normally. Since they have no natural reach, they do not threaten the squares around them. You can move past them without provoking attacks of opportunity. They also can’t flank an enemy."

From the SRD, Weapons Section:

"Reach Weapons: Glaives, guisarmes, lances, longspears, ranseurs, spiked chains, and whips are reach weapons. A reach weapon is a melee weapon that allows its wielder to strike at targets that aren’t adjacent to him or her. Most reach double the wielder’s natural reach, meaning that a typical Small or Medium wielder of such a weapon can attack a creature 10 feet away, but not a creature in an adjacent square. A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away, but not adjacent creatures or creatures up to 10 feet away."

Zero doubled is still zero. The Rules Compendium clarified this further:

"Tiny or smaller creatures gain no advantage from reach weapons."

On the plus side, there's no need to waste a feat on Shorten Grip or Short Haft. Aberrant Blood + Inhuman Reach might make things interesting, though.

And Eldritch Glaive is a melee touch attack, so it defaults to BAB + Strength bonus. Since it's a touch attack, though, you can use Weapon Finesse to use your Dexterity bonus instead. If you did just a regular Eldritch Blast (which you could still do even while occupying an enemy's square), then it's a ranged touch attack, and you use your Dexterity bonus as with any other ranged attack. Both the Glaive and regular EB will provoke an AoO (for using an SLA), but you can cast either of them defensively.

CTLC
2010-01-26, 08:54 PM
i will not be fighting at all, at the most a few snipes, as a sparrow...

Vizzerdrix
2010-01-26, 09:43 PM
Dunno if it has ben mentioned yet, but don't forget flyby attack

Also, if you can talk the DM into it, Tome of Magic has another CR2 swarm. A murder of crows (can be re-flavored). See if you can get that added to Summon Swarm (and hide inside it)

CTLC
2010-01-26, 10:31 PM
"you see a swarm of sparrows, one of them fires a large blast at you, you die"

Much woot

Darrin
2010-01-26, 11:39 PM
i will not be fighting at all, at the most a few snipes, as a sparrow...

The Glaivelock advice was for a melee-focused sparrow. For just a straight-up Sniper/Blaster, the feat choices should be much simpler:

1) Martial Study: Shadow Blade Technique (ToB, adds Hide as a class skill)
3) Blend Into Shadows (Drow of the Underdark, Hide in Plain Sight as a swift action)
6) Darkstalker (Lords of Madness, hide works against blindsight/blindsense/tremorsense/scent)
9) Flyby Attack
12) Quicken SLA
15) Shape Soulmeld: Kruthik Claws (MoI, +4 insight bonus on Hide and Move Silently)
18) Air Heritage (Planar Handbook, +30 fly speed)

Consider dipping Incarnate to pick up Strongheart Vest (the other method to negate Con damage from Hellfire Warlock, check if your DM will allow) and Sighting Gloves (PB Shot only no range limitation, and you can bind them to your hands with Open Least Chakra to pick up Precise Shot).

Another dip to consider is Assassin, which gives you the divination spells necessary to get into Unseen Seer. The skill point requirements require quite a bit of wrangling, however. But Unseen Seer can advance your EB/Invocations as well as give you more Sneak Attack dice.

CTLC
2010-01-26, 11:48 PM
The Glaivelock advice was for a melee-focused sparrow. For just a straight-up Sniper/Blaster, the feat choices should be much simpler:

1) Martial Study: Shadow Blade Technique (ToB, adds Hide as a class skill)
3) Blend Into Shadows (Drow of the Underdark, Hide in Plain Sight as a swift action)
6) Darkstalker (Lords of Madness, hide works against blindsight/blindsense/tremorsense/scent)
9) Flyby Attack
12) Quicken SLA
15) Shape Soulmeld: Kruthik Claws (MoI, +4 insight bonus on Hide and Move Silently)
18) Air Heritage (Planar Handbook, +30 fly speed)

Consider dipping Incarnate to pick up Strongheart Vest (the other method to negate Con damage from Hellfire Warlock, check if your DM will allow) and Sighting Gloves (PB Shot only no range limitation, and you can bind them to your hands with Open Least Chakra to pick up Precise Shot).

Another dip to consider is Assassin, which gives you the divination spells necessary to get into Unseen Seer. The skill point requirements require quite a bit of wrangling, however. But Unseen Seer can advance your EB/Invocations as well as give you more Sneak Attack dice.

i love the feat choices but i have a few questions:
1.why not the fly speed on earlier? it could be helpful outside of combat aswell
2. should i take incarnate as my first two levels, or go warlock [#i need] incarnate 2, hellfire 3, etc...
3.what is the flyby attack used for?

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-01-26, 11:53 PM
PrC: Hellfire Warlock
Feat: Shape Soulmeld (Strongheart Vest)

Highly recommended.

Check OP. He's Necropolitan. He's immune to Con damage, thus he cannot take advantage of Hellfire Warlock.

Really, that's hurting you a lot in terms of damage output, but there are other ways...

You want utility? Here's what you do.

At 6th level, take the Charm invocation. Bump up your social skills a bit. Take the prestige class Mindbender. A one-level dip from Complete Arcane. This gives you Telepathy for a 100' range.

Then simply take Mindsight as your 9th level feat.

You now sense all non-mindless beings within 100'. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.

Right, now that you can see... oh, I dunno... everything, you then pick up such fun toys as Walk Unseen (invis), Flee The Scene (DimDoor leaving an illusion behind), and Fell Flight (Flight always on). Then go into Vitriolic Blast to negate SR, unless you just want to blow a feat on Supernatural Transformation to make your Eldritch Blast a (Su) ability instead of (Sp).

Sure, you won't be doing the most damage on the block. But hey... it's consistent, and you can still do fun things like Chilling Tentacles for Battlefield Control, Reaving dispelling to debuff and damage opponent casters, and can still lay down the pain with Chain Utterdark Blast to give negative levels to every opponent in the area.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-01-26, 11:53 PM
Fly by attack do a standard action in the middle of your move action

Darrin
2010-01-27, 12:38 AM
i love the feat choices but i have a few questions:
1.why not the fly speed on earlier? it could be helpful outside of combat aswell


I thought hiding would be more important, hence Martial Study, Blend Into Shadows, and Darkstalker went first. You could probably delay Darkstalker until blindsense/tremorsense become more common.

Faster flight wouldn't be a bad idea earlier.



2. should i take incarnate as my first two levels, or go warlock [#i need] incarnate 2, hellfire 3, etc...


So long as you take Incarnate before Hellfire Warlock, I'm not sure it's important when you take it. You don't really need the Strongheart Vest until you start taking Con damage (although it might come in handy earlier). You shouldn't need more than one level of Incarnate, which would give you Strongheart Vest and Sighting Gloves. There's a couple more soulmelds that could help with ranged attacks, but I think it's more important to keep as many of your Warlock caster levels as you can.



3.what is the flyby attack used for?

I'm not entirely sure... it's just a *required* feat for most fliers. Being able to move + invocation + move would probably be useful, although I don't recall a lot of invocations that require you to get really up-close-and-personal with your target. Air Heritage would certainly be nice at 9th as well. I was also considering Martial Stance to pick up Assassin's Stance (sneak attack damage), which would allow you to pick up Craven later. Really, the importat feats are:

1) Martial Study (although there may be other ways to pick up the hide skill)
3) Blend Into Shadows
6) Darkstalker
9) ???
12) Quicken SLA (best way to get multiple ranged attacks with EB)
15) ???
18) ???

The rest you can fill in with whatever you prefer.

CTLC
2010-01-27, 12:12 PM
my ninth feat will be the heritage of air thing then. and looking at the incarnate i think the extra level, for a total of two, gives me another essentia and another shape to use. so i think ill go incarnate 2/warlock 3 and from there increase warlock until i can take the hellfire.
ill be a hengeyokai for sparrow, which will really help with sniping, and spying. i will be stealthy in general, but capable ish in combat. etc.
thanks a ton to everyone!

Doc Roc
2010-01-27, 12:41 PM
If you want utility beyound creative uses of WBL then Warlocks the wrong class.

Actually, you have Use Magical Device as a class skill. This is Good. Pick up a wand of nerveskitter, and grab a couple of schemas. I recommend silent image and solid fog.

CTLC
2010-01-27, 01:19 PM
Actually, im sorry, the 20 ft fly speed was for the HYbrid form!!!
as a sparrow i fly 50ft and am fine sized. i also have a decent ac

Edit, are there any templates i can use, or anything else for that matter, to increase my abilities with no LA? my stats are currently 10, 16, 14, 14, 6, 16 in order.

Edit again, i may have to take weapon finesse for level 3 instead, as due to my plans i will have to sometimes fight in melee, i dont have to be great, but good enough to hold my own, and win if i could damage him some at a range.

CTLC
2010-01-27, 02:44 PM
Bump, mostly because i finished my sheet.
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=181945

FYI, i think its all done, if im missing sections, its cause im recovering from sickness, also i think that my feat choices were the best for a sniper at this level, hes sneaky, but has a complete double life
1. hes in the guard, and part of a special ops team that works with the leaders of the city.
2. hes acutally with an extremely strong guy who is going to take over the city by killing everyone in charge.

so i need to fight meh {ADV} with the team and guards, with the glaive, and when im on the other side i can hide and shoot while not in human form.

Edit: fixed some issues with hp, added a few wands, will add invocations in a few.

Edit edit edit etc. done: http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=181945

Darrin
2010-01-27, 05:55 PM
Looks good. The only suggestion I have would be to max out concentration. Using an invocation provokes an AoO, but you can cast it defensively to avoid that.

CTLC
2010-01-27, 10:14 PM
here is the more edited verison with some changes, i got a lot of wands which is nice, and can auto 20s on UMD, low skill points really hurting me here though.

im still trying to go for stealth for sure, so next level is the blend into shadows feat.

Edit, i suck, here it is http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=181945

Vizzerdrix
2010-01-27, 10:19 PM
ToM: Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis should take care of all your stealth needs

CTLC
2010-01-27, 10:36 PM
i shall buy one as soon as i can

bartman
2010-01-28, 11:03 PM
Just out of curiosity, where does it say you can use your spell like abilities in animal form? I have been considering this class for my warlock, but cannot find any info that you can do your EB ad other invocations while in animal form.

CTLC
2010-01-28, 11:09 PM
the warlock information thing linked earlier in this thread says so, and the race says SLAs can be used, i think. the information thing has never lied and is a godsend though, worst case scenario just ask your DM

deuxhero
2010-01-28, 11:32 PM
Empower SLA is a trap. Quicken is better for warlocks (150% vs 200% plus you can quicken a glaive for move+full attack and other stuff because blastshapes/ecenses are still your eldritch blast)

Sstoopidtallkid
2010-01-28, 11:35 PM
Empower SLA is a trap. Quicken is better for warlocks (150% vs 200% plus you can quicken a glaive for move+full attack and other neat tricks)But you can take both. :smallbiggrin:

deuxhero
2010-01-28, 11:43 PM
Surely you can find something better to do with a feat than a 3/day 50% damage boost once you have alreddy spent a feat on a 3/day 100% damage boost.

Person_Man
2010-01-29, 10:12 AM
I can't access mythweaver from work, so I have no idea what your final build is. But Since Incarnum is in the mix, you might want to go Incarnate 3/Warlock 3/Soulcaster 10. Soulcaster progresses meldshaping and arcane spellcasting.

You should also take a look at the Incarnum Blast Invocation from MoI. Save or Daze (though limited to living creatures of opposed alignment) is pretty potent.

CTLC
2010-01-29, 03:43 PM
no, im more focused on warlockness, warlock sniper is my name and level 2 is my new game
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=181945

Yucca
2010-01-29, 07:19 PM
Also, in the MIC there are a couple of reasonably cheap pairs of gloves that can provide a 3/day (might be 5/day) boost to your EB. Very useful for low-level warlocks.

CTLC
2010-01-29, 10:21 PM
i killed 11 soldiers as a sparrow with only eldritch blast. while my allies drowned!
i looove this class and i love going for the stealthy sniper build, eventually ill be able to hide pretty amazingly just aboot anywhere!

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=181945

i have 720 GP left, what should i buy, not everything can be found around ehre. emphasis on things like, we have little little melee, and no healing. at all. and i have crap for skill points

Darrin
2010-01-30, 12:28 AM
i have 720 GP left, what should i buy, not everything can be found around ehre. emphasis on things like, we have little little melee, and no healing. at all. and i have crap for skill points

Buy a few nets (20 GP each) and a lasso (BoED, 1 GP). Don't worry about the exotic weapon proficiency, it's ranged touch attack that entangles, restricts movement, and incurs a Dex penalty.

See if you can get ahold of some feather tokens. The Fan (200 GP) gets rid of obscuring mist, fog, and smoke. The Whip (500 GP), for example, is a nice little fire-and-forget item that can get past DR/magic and grapples (denies Dex bonus so allows party rogue to sneak attack). The Tree (400 GP) is good for blocking doors/hallways, providing hard cover, easy to climb, dozens of other uses. The Swan Boat (450 GP) is even better... you can already fly, so get above something nasty and activate the boat. 20d6 falling object damage, *no save*.

Flour Pouch (Dungeonscape). 1 SP, poor-man's glitterdust but a dirt-cheap non-magical counter to invisible opponents.

Marbles (A&EG). 2 SP per bag, spread like caltrops but essentially 5' x 5' squares of non-magical grease. Very handy for the party rogue.

Screaming Flask (Complete Mage). 40 GP, 1d8 sonic damage in a 15' cone, save vs. deafness.

Eggshell Grenades: Dust (Oriental Adventures). 10 GP, mostly for the party rogue, throw as a ranged touch attack, target is BLIND for 1d4 rounds, *no save*.

Noxious Smokestick (Eberron). 80 GP, smoke with save vs. nausea.

Sand Pipe + Burning Sand (Secrets of Xendrik). 15 GP + 50 GP. 1d6 fire damage in a 15' cone, also a handy way to light webs/oil on fire.

deuxhero
2010-01-30, 12:33 AM
Wand of lesser vigor (or CLW if you don't have acess to Lesser Vigor) is 750, so that is a bit out of your reach, but it is great for healing (though you need inflict if you are undead, ughh).

Oh! Can't someone healed by negative energy just Utterdark Blast themselfs? I forget if Necropolitan had issues with negeitive levels.

Sstoopidtallkid
2010-01-30, 12:37 AM
Wand of lesser vigor (or CLW if you don't have acess to Lesser Vigor) is 750, so that is a bit out of your reach, but it is great for healing (though you need inflict if you are undead, ughh).

Oh! Can't someone healed by negative energy just Utterdark Blast themselfs? I forget if Necropolitan had issues with negeitive levels.Lesser Vigor heals undead and constructs just as well as it does humanoids.

CTLC
2010-01-30, 01:57 PM
i am no longer a necropolitan, snipy warlock in a group of 3

Vizzerdrix
2010-01-30, 04:37 PM
Save up another 130. Buy a potion Belt (in one of the faerun books) and get it enchanted as a healer"s belt

CTLC
2010-01-30, 04:45 PM
i could get 130 from an ally, but what does that belt do?

CTLC
2010-01-30, 07:13 PM
blend into shadows requires the darkness invocation and doesnt seem so great, darkstalker also doesnt seem so wonderful, and i cant take weapon finesse until next level. ideas?
i have one unused feat now.

Darrin
2010-01-30, 07:50 PM
blend into shadows requires the darkness invocation and doesnt seem so great,


Blend Into Shadows lets you hide as a swift action, even while being observed, so long as your near some shadows (as a fine-sized sparrow, you get a +16 size bonus on your Hide checks). For a sniper build, it allows you to fire your EB (standard action), hide (swift action), and then do something else with a move action... which, admittedly, isn't all that impressive if you've got nothing to do with that move action. If your BAB gets up to +6 or more, you can full-attack with Eldritch Glaive and then hide as a swift action, but that may be a few levels off.



darkstalker also doesnt seem so wonderful,


Darkstalker isn't all that important until you're up against a lot of enemies with blindsight, blindsense, or tremorsense. That may be a ways off... so it was probably bad advice on my part to recommend taking it so early. You can wait to take it much later.



and i cant take weapon finesse until next level. ideas?
i have one unused feat now.

Have you already taken Air Heritage? Hmm. Well, Bonus Essentia might be very handy when you get to 6th level and your soulmeld capacity increases. Also, I discovered this recently in City of Stormreach: Hardened Criminal feat, lets you take 10 on any skill, such as Use Magic Device. It requires Iron Will, so you'd have to take that first. Otherwise, maybe Dragontouched (Dragon Magic)... this lets you take Improved Speed (Draconomicon) or Dragonfire Strike (Dragon Magic) later.

CTLC
2010-01-30, 07:59 PM
Blend Into Shadows lets you hide as a swift action, even while being observed, so long as your near some shadows (as a fine-sized sparrow, you get a +16 size bonus on your Hide checks). For a sniper build, it allows you to fire your EB (standard action), hide (swift action), and then do something else with a move action... which, admittedly, isn't all that impressive if you've got nothing to do with that move action. If your BAB gets up to +6 or more, you can full-attack with Eldritch Glaive and then hide as a swift action, but that may be a few levels off.



Darkstalker isn't all that important until you're up against a lot of enemies with blindsight, blindsense, or tremorsense. That may be a ways off... so it was probably bad advice on my part to recommend taking it so early. You can wait to take it much later.



Have you already taken Air Heritage? Hmm. Well, Bonus Essentia might be very handy when you get to 6th level and your soulmeld capacity increases. Also, I discovered this recently in City of Stormreach: Hardened Criminal feat, lets you take 10 on any skill, such as Use Magic Device. It requires Iron Will, so you'd have to take that first. Otherwise, maybe Dragontouched (Dragon Magic)... this lets you take Improved Speed (Draconomicon) or Dragonfire Strike (Dragon Magic) later.

air heritage would not be great, my hybrid fly speed is only 20, but the sparrow has a full 50ft fly, and my human mode walk speed is 40 [i took quick]
again, im only level 2, so i cant take bonus essentia, hardened criminal might be worth it later when i have some better skill mods, but i get take 10 on UMD at level4 for free. iron will i do not want to have to take. i will look at the dragon ones.

EDIT: WOW, dragontouched is kewl, im in.
although i may have to go to counseling and tell teh man in the suit where on the doll the dragon touched me. Do i have to pick a dragon type as i if i took heritage, and if so which type should i choose?

what about this dragonmark thing, wat that do?


Edit edit edit w.e: dragonmarks are bettah, im a least shadow dragonmarked and next level i might take a dragonmark related feat.
http://pifro.com/pro/view.php?id=4594

Darrin
2010-01-30, 11:43 PM
i cant take bonus essentia, hardened criminal might be worth it later when i have some better skill mods, but i get take 10 on UMD at level4 for free.


Whoops, forgot about that class feature. Nevermind, you don't need to take Hardened Criminal.



EDIT: WOW, dragontouched is kewl, im in.
although i may have to go to counseling and tell teh man in the suit where on the doll the dragon touched me. Do i have to pick a dragon type as i if i took heritage, and if so which type should i choose?


Be careful with the Draconic Heritage stuff. Many of them require sacrificing spell slots (which you don't have) to activate, and a lot of the others require too many other draconic feats before they do anything useful. Essentially, they're a trap for Sorcerers... you have to take half a dozen of them to do anything interesting, and Sorcerers just don't have the spare feats to take that many.

I only mentioned Dragontouched because it's required to pick up Dragonfire Strike. If you do pick up any sneak attack damage, this would allow you to convert it into energy damage, which means a lot of the things that are normally immune to sneak attack damage (undead, plants, constructs mostly) would take energy damage instead.

If you were going to pick up Draconic Heritage, then make sure it's an unusual energy type such as sonic or force damage. Amethyst, Emerald, or Battle Dragon work very nicely.



what about this dragonmark thing, wat that do?


Sorry, can't help there. I don't know anything about dragonmarks.

CTLC
2010-01-30, 11:56 PM
but now, i do!
and they are kewl, very much kewl sauce.
so i took the least dragonmark shadow, for darkness 1/day, and more abilities with more feats.
eventually

CTLC
2010-02-02, 11:40 PM
well i actually have a dragonmark of passage, hopefully
but i was thinking of getting my dm to mod the spellwarp sniper so it can be achieved through incarnate1 warlock [# at which i meet the skill ranks criterion] rogue 1 [sneak attack requirement] spellwarp sniper [# of levels it is] hellfire 3 trickster [till everything else in the world is dead]

ideas, comments, brews, sheet:http://pifro.com/pro/view.php?id=4594

reasons to really want spellwarp
1. its a long range character, thats who he is
2. i can do my eldritch buisness as a sparrow.
3. i have a 40 ft move speed, but crap for hp so range is to my favor
4. mark of passage gives me that range i want so badly
5. hellfire makes thing die, painfully, strongheart vest makes everything hellfire
6. if someone sneak attacks me they get a hellfire shield to the crotch, no it doesnt target the crotch, but I do