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Rasman
2010-01-23, 08:03 PM
I stumbled upon Nolzur’s Marvelous Pigments while reading though Dungeonscape, it seems you can "craft" almost anything you could possibly need at the cost of 4,000g. Other than some of the money making methods, what are some unique uses for this pigment?

herrhauptmann
2010-01-23, 08:23 PM
Trapped in a room and you've got your fingerpaints.
So you paint a door in the wall and go through?
Never actually used them, but they seem very cartoon inspired, so probably something from a Roadrunner or Tom and Jerry cartoon.

Ravens_cry
2010-01-23, 08:25 PM
Fast construction of pit traps? Create a feast for negotiations with a tribe? A ladder to reach a ledge or opening no one can get to, because you are out of fly spells?

Gralamin
2010-01-23, 08:28 PM
Marvelous Pigments
These magic emulsions enable their possessor to create actual, permanent objects simply by depicting their form in two dimensions. The pigments are applied by a stick tipped with bristles, hair, or fur. The emulsion flows from the application to form the desired object as the artist concentrates on the desired image. One pot of marvelous pigments is sufficient to create a 1,000-cubic-foot object by depicting it two-dimensionally over a 100-square-foot surface.

Only normal, inanimate objects can be created. Creatures can’t be created. The pigments must be applied to a surface. It takes 10 minutes and a DC 15 Craft (painting) check to depict an object with the pigments. Marvelous pigments cannot create magic items. Objects of value depicted by the pigments —precious metals, gems, jewelry, ivory, and so on— appear to be valuable but are really made of tin, lead, paste, brass, bone, and other such inexpensive materials. The user can create normal weapons, armor, and any other mundane item (including foodstuffs) whose value does not exceed 2,000 gp.

Items created are not magical; the effect is instantaneous.

Strong conjuration; CL 15th; Craft Wondrous Item, major creation; Price 4,000 gp.

I would guess you couldn't create pits (They aren't objects), but you could create doors, peak holes, grease, and a variety of other things.

Sinfire Titan
2010-01-23, 08:34 PM
Items created by the pigments have no actual value, and anyone can tell the items are worthless (even without Appraise ranks). That said, they retain some use. While you can't make Diamonds to cast Raise Dead, you can create a 5ft pit of lava and let the party Fighter Bull Rush some poor bum into it, causing actual damage. Alternatively, you can use the pigments to create structural imbalance in Walls or buildings, allowing you collapse them or bypass the obstacle outright.


Note that you only have 1000 cubic feet worth of paint per jar (4K/jar is fairly cheap though), so the best you can do is create an entire 10*10*10 room. Minor things, like sheets of paper or a blank spellbook, however, take very little of this paint, and most items created in this way can be reused fairly easily. You need to be at least savvy with your Geometry to keep track of the paint, but it isn't too much of a headache for most gamers.

Oh, and you can make Alchemical Items too, IIRC. Hello Shapesand!

Ravens_cry
2010-01-23, 08:46 PM
I would guess you couldn't create pits (They aren't objects), but you could create doors, peak holes, grease, and a variety of other things.
if you can make a door way, why can't you create a pit? Both are defined by an absence of material.

Rasman
2010-01-23, 08:56 PM
if you can make a door way, why can't you create a pit? Both are defined by an absence of material.

actually, in the discription in Dungeonscape, it mentions that you can make pits, so that's not an issue

Ravens_cry
2010-01-23, 09:24 PM
actually, in the discription in Dungeonscape, it mentions that you can make pits, so that's not an issue
All right then, I only have access to the SRD and DMG version.

Dimers
2010-01-23, 11:27 PM
Booze!
Specialty weapons or armor
ladders, parachutes
gunpowder (if it exists in the campaign world) or flour (a cloud can explode fairly nicely) or "explosive swamp gas", plus a couple tindertwigs
not-valuable spell components or foci (a pool of water for a druid's scrying, e.g.)
The pigments are extra handy if your party includes both an undead-maker and a bard. Corpses are not-very-valuable objects, a bard knows what everything looks like, and a necromancer can describe qualities she'd like her undead to have. "Bard! Make me a hydra to skeletonize!" :smallsmile:

deuxhero
2010-01-23, 11:39 PM
Why aren't you making it a zombie? Hyrdas ignore their main weakeness (You can attack with all heads as a single ation beats slow).

Darrin
2010-01-23, 11:53 PM
actually, in the discription in Dungeonscape, it mentions that you can make pits, so that's not an issue

You can make pits, yes, but it's actually quite expensive. Based on the prices of pit traps, walls, etc. in the DMG and Stronghold Builder's Guidebook, I calculated some prices for 5' x 5' x 5' cubes of various materials:

Stone (hewn, as via wall of stone) 750 GP
Lava (as via transmute rock to lava) 191.25 GP
Ice (as via wall of ice) 87.5 GP
Pit (i.e., empty cavity carved into stone) 62.5 GP
Packed Earth (burrowable) 12.5 GP

The lava price may be off... had to recalculate some things a few weeks ago, but my scribbled notes aren't available at the moment. The cheapest way to get through solid stone walls, assuming you're not pressed for time, is to paint a tunnel full of packed earth and summon a dire badger (or similar burrower) to dig it out.

Dimers
2010-01-24, 12:03 AM
Why aren't you making it a zombie? Hyrdas ignore their main weakeness (You can attack with all heads as a single ation beats slow).

Oh, sorry -- that's a legacy of theoretical character-creation. I imagined an "improved skeletal minion" feat, like "improved familiar" except used by the skeletal minion necro variant in UA. So of course the whatever-it-was needed to be skeletal.

Sinfire Titan
2010-01-24, 12:20 AM
You can make pits, yes, but it's actually quite expensive. Based on the prices of pit traps, walls, etc. in the DMG and Stronghold Builder's Guidebook, I calculated some prices for 5' x 5' x 5' cubes of various materials:

Stone (hewn, as via wall of stone) 750 GP
Lava (as via transmute rock to lava) 191.25 GP
Ice (as via wall of ice) 87.5 GP
Pit (i.e., empty cavity carved into stone) 62.5 GP
Packed Earth (burrowable) 12.5 GP

The lava price may be off... had to recalculate some things a few weeks ago, but my scribbled notes aren't available at the moment. The cheapest way to get through solid stone walls, assuming you're not pressed for time, is to paint a tunnel full of packed earth and summon a dire badger (or similar burrower) to dig it out.

Why does the price matter? At all? He's using the Pigments to make a pit. I'd be more worried about how much paint it takes. A 5*5*5 pit is going to take quite a bit...

Darrin
2010-01-24, 12:34 AM
Why does the price matter? At all? He's using the Pigments to make a pit. I'd be more worried about how much paint it takes. A 5*5*5 pit is going to take quite a bit...

Shrug. The description of how you keep track of what or how much the pigments can paint is frustratingly vague. In my campaign, I decided to keep track of it via GP rather than trying to calculate the square footage of whatever irregular shapes my PCs decided to paint. They were trying to dig through stone walls at the time, and the DMG lists how much an open pit trap (or a stone wall of a certain thickness) costs in GP. From there, I can break it down into 5' cubes.

Jacob Orlove
2010-01-24, 12:37 AM
All right then, I only have access to the SRD and DMG version.
You should check your DMG again. It's page 263 in mine: "One pot of Nolzur's Marvelous Pigments is sufficient to create a 1,000-cubic-foot object by depicting it two-dimensionally over a 100-square-foot surface. Thus, a 10-foot-by-10-foot rendition of a pit would result in an actual 10-foot-by-10-foot-by-10 foot pit; a 10-foot-by-10-foot rendition of a room would result in an actual 10-foot-by-10-foot-by-10 foot room; and so on."

Shardan
2010-01-24, 12:44 AM
you're not likely to carry a Pit trap with you, but the pigments you can. A skilled thief knows what some really dangerous traps look like. Can you picture the guards surprise when they walk down their own hallway and spring a spiked pit trap?

An instant forgery?
enemy guard uniforms?
replacement weapons/thief tools?
Iron Cage?
poison?

Lycanthromancer
2010-01-24, 01:08 AM
Shrug. The description of how you keep track of what or how much the pigments can paint is frustratingly vague. In my campaign, I decided to keep track of it via GP rather than trying to calculate the square footage of whatever irregular shapes my PCs decided to paint. They were trying to dig through stone walls at the time, and the DMG lists how much an open pit trap (or a stone wall of a certain thickness) costs in GP. From there, I can break it down into 5' cubes.My wizard can disintegrate it for free.

jiriku
2010-01-24, 02:08 AM
I'd say the genius of the pigments is not in creating new items but in modifying existing ones. Paint cracks in that lock, paint a flaw in that capstone, paint a hole in that wall, paint a gap around that hinge. You can bypass many locks, wards, barriers and traps with cleverness and a little paint. Paint a peephole in a door to see what's on the other side, paint a flaw in Sir Antagonist's shield before your joust with him.

Kelb_Panthera
2010-01-24, 02:36 AM
Draw a dozen 1-inch high blue wind-up men, in white hats and pants, to distract the guards while you sneak around behind them, and through the door they're guarding.

Edit: made the created thing a toy rather than a creature.

Ravens_cry
2010-01-24, 02:40 AM
If your not staying long in a particular township,making items that LOOK valuable, combined with a maxed out bluff check, could get some quick cash, or as a bribe for a guard or other flunkie.

Kelb_Panthera
2010-01-24, 02:46 AM
If your not staying long in a particular township,making items that LOOK valuable, combined with a maxed out bluff check, could get some quick cash, or as a bribe for a guard or other flunkie.

and depending on who you rip off you might even get a plot hook out of this one :smallsmile:

Rasman
2010-01-24, 05:24 AM
and depending on who you rip off you might even get a plot hook out of this one :smallsmile:

lol...that's pretty true

"The Gullible but rich Mr. Fancypants McMoneyhoney is furious that you sold him a fake, worthless, non-rare wind-up toy and is now out to get you. Don't sleep."

Alex Ashgrave
2010-01-24, 06:00 AM
I would like to use the pigments for fun. Adding new doors to structures and the like. Imagine the look on *insert npc's name here* when they ask how you got in and you reply with "Oh that door over there..." and point it out to them.

Quick fortifications? Sure, spells can pull tricks like that faster and better, but hey. Last ditch effort for when spells are low.

I'm planning to paint a trap involving a heavy object, a rope and a 'Do not untie' sign. But in a later campaign.

Put a drainage pipe in a water room trap? (before it fills up)
Trapdoor/Door in one of the crushing room traps where the ceiling/walls move closer and closer.

I think that while it's a useful tool, this item makes a better tool for carrying out some serious (and somewhat costly) mischief.

For example: Find a two story building. Go to first floor, under a bedroom. Paint pit under the bed on the above floor. A rude and amusing awakening.

Oh, I can't wait to play a game where I get the chance to use this stuff...

2xMachina
2010-01-24, 06:12 AM
Can we:

Paint a M. C. Escher drawing? Optical illusions? A duck that is also a rabbit?

Ravens_cry
2010-01-24, 06:27 AM
Can we:

Paint a M. C. Escher drawing? Optical illusions? A duck that is also a rabbit?
I have seen real life versions of what appear to be the things seen in Escher drawings from a very specific angle. In my view it would create something like this. (http://im-possible.info/english/articles/real/real3.html)

JohnnyCancer
2010-01-24, 02:54 PM
1.The PCs are in a rickety farm house and must last the night against waves of undead until the sun comes up, they can use the pigments to shore up the house by painting a pile of lumber and sandbags to patch things up and erect barricades with.

2. Paint a statue of yourself in a pose of terror, wear a disguise and present the statue to your mortal enemy to cash in on the bounty on your own head.

3. Find a tiny, drab thorpe, paint a feast and festive decorations in the dead of night, watch the villagers wake up to a holiday miracle!

4. Can't get contractors to fix up your newly claimed keep in the Mountains of Terror and Death? Paint over signs of wear and tear.

5. Buy yourself a little time, paint a fake pile of treasure in the dragon's lair to replace the one you just took.

Deth Muncher
2010-01-24, 03:26 PM
I have seen real life versions of what appear to be the things seen in Escher drawings from a very specific angle. In my view it would create something like this. (http://im-possible.info/english/articles/real/real3.html)

Ah! My brainmeats! They hurt!

Randel
2010-01-25, 12:49 AM
Paint a realistic mural of a WWII tank, then rub your hands evilly, walk into the painting, get in the tank, and drive it out into the medieval fantasy world while laughing manically. If you run out of gas... just paint some more.

(This was inspired by a scene from the Darkwing Duck episode "Negaduck" where Darkwings evil side goes into a movie theater showing the 'cute lost bunnies' movie, starts shooting up the place, jumps into the movie and inexplicably drives out of it with a battletank!)

Paint up a nonliving copy of yourself and use it to fake your own death... or use transmutation magic and Raise Dead to bring it to life. Not sure if that would work, or result in some kind of weird toon version of yourself.

Get a police box and paint a 10x10 room inside of it. Get another can of paint and paint another 10x10 room off to the side of that room. Then hook up some teleportation magic items into it and you have your very own TARDIS.

Get something you want to get rid of like an Artifact of Doom or a resilient enemy. Dig a hole in the ground, dump the thing in it, then paint a bigger hole on top of that... and wonder where the stuff you painted over went to.

Paint up a barrel full of dynamite, write "Warning: High Explosives" on the side, then cast Explosive Runes on the warning label. Then get out and watch the fireworks.

Paint R2-D2

Paint up a huge feast whenever you want one.

Paint up several cans of mundane paint, then paint all sorts of stuff everywhere to confuse people.

Paint up a paintball gun that lets you shoot pellets of Marvelous pigments onto your enemies, effectively painting grievous wounds on them (or just painting huge holes in them or something).

chiasaur11
2010-01-25, 12:59 AM
Robo-Gamera.

You know you need one.

TheStillWind
2010-01-25, 01:47 AM
The best thing to do is create a portable house.
Step 1. Get portable hole
Step 2. Get paints
Step 3. Paint depth to the house
Step 4. Move in basic amenities

It is only limited by your imagination.

Also good idea for a dungeon