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Brendan
2010-01-24, 09:42 AM
So, before I do anything else, I would like to ask all of you NOT to suggest I get rid of the player. He is my best friend of thirteen years and I don't want to have this be a problem.

However, there are some big problems which need help. each one of the people in my group are preparing a campaign, and so each player is a PC and a DM. my friend has some problems when he does either. I made a mostly complete list of each.

problems with his DMing
1: railroading (recently he had an ettin with class levels, an imp wit at least 11 sorceror levels and a mid-high level satyr bard appear out of nowhere to capture us with a homebrewed spell that both steals all of our magic items and teleports unwilling people without a line of sight and with no save. We appeared inside of a jail, naked, having lost 20,000 gp flying boots, a 5,000 gp cloak of elvenkind, a wand of web, a scroll of fireball, all mundane cloths, a couple hundred GP, a masterwork quarterstaff, and a few other fun items we got when looting corpses.)

2: overpowered DMPCs (at the start of the game, the DMpCs were an aasimar druid who got the aasimar species free w/o LA and a wizard of higher level who got the drow species without LA. the PCs are a monk and a ranger.)

3: splitting the party (after the ranger died, he was ressurected for no reason and a new player joined in as well (it was a third level game at that point) and were in some far off place. We started the session with me and the rogue being sent away for 20 minutes, and the two ressurectees being sent away for an hour and a half. the reason? "It's their fault for dying." Yeah, a seventh level rogue and a minotaur barbarian tends to cause death in third level PCs.)

4: encouraging PvP fighting ( recently, the DMPC wizard tried to kill a PC for not letting her steal from the rest of the party. we were forced to take sides. the DMPC then tried to kill herself.)

5: constant random battles with minimal chances to roleplay. (the reason? "I gave you a chance, but you found a nonviolent way to defeat the enemy that didn't involve negotiation.)

thats all I can think of for DMing. when he plays as a PC, he tends to back seat DM, believe that "being bloody annoying is an interesting character trait", attacking other PCs to be "in character" as a 60 year old elf. In an evil campaign he effectively mindraped a new player for fun.

although all of this together is a lot, I want to reemphasize that he is my best friend and when he does not do these things, he is a very good DM. He just does these things occasionally.

what should I do?

Ernir
2010-01-24, 09:49 AM
Talk to him. The problems you told us about, tell him about. Communication is everything. You have been friends for 13 years, this can't be the worst that has happened between you. :smalltongue:

Kelb_Panthera
2010-01-24, 09:50 AM
Talk to him about it. Explain, in detail, why these things are a problem. If you stay calm and don't get accusatory, then a real friend will take what you have to say to heart. Try not to make him feel like you're dressing him down though, or it could cause some resentment.

alisbin
2010-01-24, 09:56 AM
well, as a best friend i'd say you have rights to tell him (politely naturally) about the things he does that makes the game less for you. explain what and why, and if he doesn't get it, get together one afternoon and run an example session, just you two and give him a (small and friendly) taste of his own style. as long as your nice about it, a friend should understand.

CTLC
2010-01-24, 11:34 AM
i have to agree, simply tell him that you think hes doing a few things in a way that makes the game less fun, be gentle.

DabblerWizard
2010-01-24, 11:49 AM
OP Spoilered
So, before I do anything else, I would like to ask all of you NOT to suggest I get rid of the player. He is my best friend of thirteen years and I don't want to have this be a problem.

However, there are some big problems which need help. each one of the people in my group are preparing a campaign, and so each player is a PC and a DM. my friend has some problems when he does either. I made a mostly complete list of each.

problems with his DMing
1: railroading (recently he had an ettin with class levels, an imp wit at least 11 sorceror levels and a mid-high level satyr bard appear out of nowhere to capture us with a homebrewed spell that both steals all of our magic items and teleports unwilling people without a line of sight and with no save. We appeared inside of a jail, naked, having lost 20,000 gp flying boots, a 5,000 gp cloak of elvenkind, a wand of web, a scroll of fireball, all mundane cloths, a couple hundred GP, a masterwork quarterstaff, and a few other fun items we got when looting corpses.)

2: overpowered DMPCs (at the start of the game, the DMpCs were an aasimar druid who got the aasimar species free w/o LA and a wizard of higher level who got the drow species without LA. the PCs are a monk and a ranger.)

3: splitting the party (after the ranger died, he was ressurected for no reason and a new player joined in as well (it was a third level game at that point) and were in some far off place. We started the session with me and the rogue being sent away for 20 minutes, and the two ressurectees being sent away for an hour and a half. the reason? "It's their fault for dying." Yeah, a seventh level rogue and a minotaur barbarian tends to cause death in third level PCs.)

4: encouraging PvP fighting ( recently, the DMPC wizard tried to kill a PC for not letting her steal from the rest of the party. we were forced to take sides. the DMPC then tried to kill herself.)

5: constant random battles with minimal chances to roleplay. (the reason? "I gave you a chance, but you found a nonviolent way to defeat the enemy that didn't involve negotiation.)

thats all I can think of for DMing. when he plays as a PC, he tends to back seat DM, believe that "being bloody annoying is an interesting character trait", attacking other PCs to be "in character" as a 60 year old elf. In an evil campaign he effectively mindraped a new player for fun.

although all of this together is a lot, I want to reemphasize that he is my best friend and when he does not do these things, he is a very good DM. He just does these things occasionally.

what should I do?


It might help you, and us, if you figured out (and stated) what changes you want to occur.

Are you simply looking for a change in your friend's overall behavior? Are you looking for advice having to do with convincing him not to DM (or be a player) anymore because you're fed up with his behavior?

Assuming you're looking for just a positive change in his behavior, here's some input.

The best way to handle this situation is to be direct, straightforward, calm, and honest. Let him know which behaviors bother you, and why. Referencing the fact that these actions frustrate you, annoy you, etc, can be helpful.

You could think up more elaborate changes, but the simplest remark, is to ask him to stop acting this way. His actions may be varied, and they may have multiple reasons for taking place, but they're all counter productive, and hurtful to the group as a whole, to you, and to his value as a DM and player.

Three major reactions can take place on his part.

(1) He won't be receptive to change at all, because he doesn't see a problem with his behavior, because he feels justified in the way he acts, or because he just doesn't want to deal with the situation.

(2) He'll be completely receptive to change, and he'll work on curbing his negative behavior. He may not change overnight, but he'll actively work on being a friendlier DM and player.

(3) He'll be willing (and able) to change only some of his behavior.

It's up to you decide how to you want to react to each of these scenarios.

Do you put up with his behavior even if he utterly refuses to act differently?

Do you actively help him by pointing out his negative behavior, even in the middle of a session?

Do you expect complete change, or do you accept, or put up with, only partial change?

soulchicken
2010-01-24, 12:08 PM
We have a player that sometimes has issues with argueing incessantly with the DM regarding some of the DM's calls.

I knew it was really getting to the DM, so the DM called for a break. We were all outside, and the DM politely explained why he made the call and why the player was out of line.

The player realized his mistake, and we have been smooth sailing since then.

I'm not saying that the player was wrong for questioning the call, but he was wrong for getting into a borderline heated arguement when the DM has made a decision.

My suggestion is talk to your other players, and see if you are the only one that feels this way. Maybe all the other players feel that this isn't an issue, and they feel that your friend is playing like he should.

You don't want to neccesarily gang up on him, but if he realizes that he is causing a poor game experience for everyone in the group and not just you, then he might be more receptive to change.

Kaun
2010-01-24, 03:01 PM
Get a little water pistol and every time he does something stupid spray him in the face a few times. Or hit him over the noes with a rolled up news paper.

This treatment is no longer just for your pets!!

DabblerWizard
2010-01-24, 03:45 PM
My suggestion is talk to your other players, and see if you are the only one that feels this way. Maybe all the other players feel that this isn't an issue, and they feel that your friend is playing like he should.



Splitting the party and pvp fighting are bad enough on their own, and even worse in tandem.

If your fellow party members think these are acceptable, friendly, useful things to do, then follow Kaun's suggestion and hit them on the nose... figuratively speaking of course. :smalltongue: