DnD Yourself theory

[DarklingPerhaps]

When making a character sheet based on yourself, I've heard a lot of arguments along the lines of 'people overestimate their stats' or 'all humans are true neutral.' I can see how that makes sense in a game way, but I think the whole point of making a character sheet based on yourself is from our POV.

Basically what I'm saying is the game terms work for the game because the game is almost a charicature of life. To work in real life we have to lower the standards a little or everyone's characters would be boring and similiar. So we can say people are lawful good if they choose to be, simply becuase they want to see themselves as such. Stats are a little more strict, but not much more. There is probably no one who has an 18 intelligence DnD style, but there's bound to be people who are significantly smarter than the rest (though measuring it would be difficult).

Not to mention everyone thinks of themselves as PC's. So when we're making our own character sheets PC's become the average, therefore all stats are already greater than normal people. Anyway, making characters is also about having fun just showing what you think of yourself, so there's really no reason to be critical.

THanks for reading that. Here's my character.:smallbiggrin:

Lvl 3 Human Slave Fast Food Worker
Str: 14
Dex: 15
Con: 13
Int: 16
Wis: 8
Cha: 13
Ranks: Sleight of Hand 1, Move Silently 1, Knowlege (DnD) 4, Escape Artist 2, Balance 4, Diplomacy 3

[PersonMan]

If I had to give myself stats, they'd probably look like this:

Lvl 2 Expert
Str: 9
Dex: 11
Con: 13
Int: 14
Wis: 10
Cha: 14
Skills: Knowledge(history, general) +7, Listen +5, Spot +5, Move Silently +5, Hide +5

[Pigkappa]

You should try to do this using world of darkness rules. That makes much more sense for people living in the 3rd millennium, and the way character sheets are is interesting.

[Zaydos]

Well if I had to try:
Str: 12; looking at my benchpress and how much I can lift I'm somewhere between 11 and 12.
Dex: 13; I'm more agile than most people I know but not "Wow!" Maybe even 14 as I can dodge a common house cat with ease.
Con: 16; I get sick but I have good stamina.
Int: 14
Wis: 13
Cha 8.
Skills: Knowledge (Religion) 4 ranks (I know myths), Knowledge (D&D) 4 ranks, Knowledge (Nature) 2 ranks, Survival 1 rank (I can figure out which way is north at least!), Balance 3 ranks, Climb 1 rank, Jump 1 rank, Sense Motive 2 ranks, Knowledge (History) 1 rank, others...
Flaws: Socially Inept: -4 to Diplomacy checks.
Rage: Maybe only half bonuses, but I was an angry little kid and scary when I got mad. I've learned to keep it under control though.

Edit: Decided to throw in feats.
Dodge
Endurance
Improved Initiative

[OverdrivePrime]

You should try to do this using world of darkness rules. That makes much more sense for people living in the 3rd millennium, and the way character sheets are is interesting.

While I agree to an extent, I think the Shadowrun rules better approximate modern humans... Except for WoD's virtues mechanic, which was pretty neat.

Anyway, If we're going to do one of these "Stat Yourself" threads again, let's really do it up proper and just attach our character sheets. Attributes are fine, but I'm interested in skill ratings and special abilities as well.

[Sanguine]

I'm not quite sure how I would stat myself out but I remember I once took an online test that stated me as a NG Cleric with a 9 wisdom and I think it was 17 Int but it may have been lower, don't remember the rest.

[Zaydos]

Yeah I got a barbarian/ranger with 16 Int and Con, two 15s, and my lowest stat was a 12. I like to think I'm smart and all but... no.

[SurlySeraph]

I statted myself out with d20 Modern. Here's the sheet. (http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=19526)

Abilities (when I'm in shape, which is usually):
STR 12 (yay, martial arts training)
DEX 12 (I have average manual dexterity, but I'm quite agile)
CON 12 (don't get sick easily, good endurance)
INT 15 (I go to a college you have probably heard of, [insert bragging about grades and test scores here], etc.)
WIS 10 (people have told me that I am wise and give good advice, but I definitely have trouble with Spot and Listen checks, not to mention a complete lack of willpower and common sense. In DnD terms, I should probably have low Wisdom).
CHA 9 (awkward but not awful)

And, to encourage others to do the same, I'll stat myself in non-d20 systems as well.

World of Darkness:
Intelligence 4, Wits 3, Resolve 1
Strength 2, Dexterity 3, Stamina 2
Presence 1, Manipulation 2, Composure 3
Mental skills: Academics (History) 3, Computer 1, Medicine (Emergency Care) 2, Politics 1, Science 2
Physical skills: Athletics 2, Brawl (Grappling) 2, Stealth 1, Survival 2
Social: Empathy 2, Persuasion 2
Advantages: Defense 3, health 7, Initiative 6, Morality 7, Size 5, Speed 10, Willpower 4
Virtue/Vice: Faith/Sloth
Merits: Eidetic Memory, Language (French), Language (Latin), Resources 1, Fighting Style (Grappling 2)

Twilight 2013:
Attributes: Awareness 6, Coordination 7, Fitness 6, Muscle 7, Cognition 8, Education 6, Personality 4, Resolve 4, Courage Under Fire 2, OODA 3
Skills: Medicine 3, Hand-to-hand 1/grappling, Fieldcraft 1, Streetcraft 3, English 6, French 4, Latin 2.
Advantages: Natural Talent (Medicine, Streetcraft), Light Sleeper
Disadvantages: Code (4 points), Nearsighted (2), Reduced Contacts (2).

And myself as I would expect to be in 2013 by their timeline:
Attributes: Awareness 6, Coordination 7, Fitness 6, Muscle 7, Cognition 9, Education 9 (degrees: Biology, Organic Chemistry, Medicine [trauma]), Personality 4, Resolve 5, Courage Under Fire 2, OODA 4
Skills: Medicine 4, Hand-to-hand 3/grappling, Fieldcraft 1, Security 3, Sidearm 3, Streetcraft 6, English 6, French 4, Latin 2.
Advantages: Natural Talent (Medicine, Streetcraft), Light Sleeper
Disadvantages: Code (4 points), Nearsighted (2), Reduced Contacts (2).
Lifepaths: 2 passes through Undergraduate University. Last Year: Urban Survival.

[JohnnyCancer]

Johnny Cancer
3rd Level NG Human Aristocrat
Str: 14
Dex: 8
Con: 8
Int: 16
Wis: 16
Cha: 14
Skills: Bluff +8, Craft (Drawing) +4, Diplomacy +8, Gather Information +3, Hide +3, Knowledge (Geography) +4, Knowledge (History) +7, Knowledge (Local) +5, Knowledge (Religion) +4, Move Silently +3, Perform (Accordion) +3, Sense Motive +7, Spot +7
Feats: Dash (I have a long stride), Goad (My mouth used to write a lot of checks my behind couldn't cash...), Great Fortitude (I may be sickly and accident prone, but I've survived it all).

[CockroachTeaParty]

I think the biggest wrench in the gears when trying to stat yourself using D&D or d20 Modern rules is hit points.

How many of you can survive a blow to the chest from a fanged warmace?

Sure, you could argue that HP loss does not always equate to a hit, and that dropping into negative HP or whatever denotes when you are finally, decisively wounded, but most people die when struck by a sword.

I always thought it was odd how bows were not one of the higher damaging weapons in the game, considering an arrow to the neck/torso/head is pretty much curtains, and a hit anywhere else would turn you into a squealing, bleeding, twitching mess, begging for mercy.

That said, most people are probably level 1 commoners. And don't get me started on d20 modern rules. Those are decidedly 'cinematic.' If you get shot with a 9mm pistol, you are going down. I've heard being shot is one of the most painful experiences in the world.

The real world is not very 'cinematic.' These game rules are designed for fictional, heroic, over-the-top action. The hard truth is that most people can't take the kind of punishment dished out in these games.

[Dogmantra]

I'd say something around:

NG Human Expert 1
STR 6
DEX 12
CON 8
INT 18
WIS 10
CHA 14

Lots of Knowledge skills. Not many physical skills.

Thing is, it's tricky for me because I learn really quickly, but there's not really a way to model that other than super-high INT which then comes off as arrogant and overestimating. Same with CHA. I am pretty good with people and likable, but I'm not good with myself, which hurts interactions with people and OH MY.

Basically, what I'm saying is that I would be a terrible character because I'm not a wizard but the only stat I have that'd be crazy high would be INT.

That said... I might actually stat myself as a Rogue PC... Hmmm... I fancy a "play yourself" game.

[Trobby]

Oooh...I always enjoy this type of thing. Hmm...my own self as a DnD class and character?


Hmm...



Gamer 2/Graphic Artist 2/Computer Programmer 1
LG
Str: 9
Dex: 12
Con: 8
Int: 15
Wis: 11
Cha: 12

Ranks:
Craft (OotS Avatar): 5 (+2 Int)
Craft (Computer Program): 3 (+2 Int)
Craft (Pencil Drawing): 2 (+2 Int)
Decipher Script: 3 (+2 Int)
Diplomacy: 4 (+1 Cha)
Gather Information: 8 (+1 Cha)
Handle Animal: 1 (Cats only) (+1 Cha)
Knowledge (College Education): 5 (+2 Int)
Knowledge (Internet): 8 (+2 Int)
Knowledge (Video Games): 8 (+2 Int)
Listen: 4
Search: 3 (+2 Int)
Swim: 2 (-1 Str)
Use Computer: 8 (+2 Int)

[Brennan]

Str: 11; I lift weights, but probably not enough to be in a suit of armor. I'd probably need to lift quite a bit more to use a longsword or such with enough ease as to have an actual battle advantage (Attack Bonus) over an opponent.
Dex: 8; I'm slow. As. Molasses. I plan on increasing said dexterity once I get my mangled leg surgically repaired. -.-
Con: 16; High merely to give me a good fort bonus, considering the fact I never get sick and when I do, I fight it off extremely quickly.
Int: 15; I'm smarter than your average bear, but not exactly a genius. I learn things faster than most and master them faster than those who have learned them.
Wis: 14; I'm rather gifted at things such as sensing motives and tend to be the first person to solve puzzles/riddles.
Cha 10; I'm not uncharismatic, nor am I any kind of politician. I am, however, skilled at persuasion, comedy, and performing on stage, so I suppose I must have some level of charisma.
Skills: Too lazy to list skills. >.>
Flaws:
Eccentricity: -5 to all checks concerning individuals who aren't 'kewl' with my eccentric nature.
Broken Leg: Must roll a DC10 Fortitude Check whenever I move, else suffer 1d4 nonlethal damage.

[Kurald Galain]

I've always preferred the whitewolf model for mapping out humans.

Str *
Dex **
Con ***
Cha ***
Man ***
App **
Per *
Int ****
Wit ****

(but if you must have it in D&D, I'm probably str 8, dex 12, con 14, int 18, wis 14, cha 10)

[snoopy13a]

Hmm,

Strength 16*
Dexterity 20*
Constitution 18
Intelligence 18
Wisdom 18
Charisma 18

*That is because I'm a halfling in RL :smalltongue:

[Temotei]

Me (http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=34063).

I think that's fairly close. If I could pick another feat, I'd probably pick either Dodge, Agile, or Run.

When I fight, I've noticed that pretty much in every "encounter," I have one or two attacks that just crush. That's my justification for the +1 damage 1/encounter, and guidance helps with that too.

My eyes are extremely sensitive to light, but I can see in low-light conditions pretty extraordinarily.

[Drakevarg]

Human Warrior (Just for the MWP) 1
Neutral Good

STR 15
DEX 9
CON 14
INT 18
WIS 14 (This one seems to flux between around 9 and 16, depending on the day...)
CHA 8

Feats:
Martial Weapon Proficiency
Skill Focus- Knowledge (Vocabulary)

Skills
Craft (Drawing), 2 Ranks
Craft (Fantasy Writing), 4 Ranks
Craft (Armorsmithing), 1 Rank
Craft (Wordbuilding), 4 Ranks
Knowledge (Vocabulary), 4 Ranks
Knowledge (DnD), 3 Ranks
Knowledge (Tropes), 1 Rank

All I can think of atm.

[Starbuck_II]

I always thought it was odd how bows were not one of the higher damaging weapons in the game, considering an arrow to the neck/torso/head is pretty much curtains, and a hit anywhere else would turn you into a squealing, bleeding, twitching mess, begging for mercy.

An arrow to the neck is Crit. Thus x3 damage.

[Temotei]

I think the biggest wrench in the gears when trying to stat yourself using D&D or d20 Modern rules is hit points.

Sure, you could argue that HP loss does not always equate to a hit, and that dropping into negative HP or whatever denotes when you are finally, decisively wounded, but most people die when struck by a sword.

I always thought it was odd how bows were not one of the higher damaging weapons in the game, considering an arrow to the neck/torso/head is pretty much curtains, and a hit anywhere else would turn you into a squealing, bleeding, twitching mess, begging for mercy.

Consider a person trained in using their chosen weapon...let's say a longbow for this example.

You're a level 1 commoner. Since you don't get full hit points at 1st level, you have between 1 and 4 hit points. Let's just assume three, because 2.5 is the average.

The person with the longbow shoots at you and hits you in the stomach.

1d8 damage. 3 - 1d8 = -1.5 on average. A good hit could reduce it more. A bad hit could reduce the damage, but you'd still be badly hurt or disabled.

Your example of a neck shot would be a critical hit for x3 damage. 4.5 x 3 = 13.5 damage. Instant death for our 3 hp commoner. That's on an average roll, and assuming the commoner has full hit points.

A weaker critical (let's assume the weakest) would be 1 x 3 = 3. The commoner is disabled, and if they perform any strenuous activity, they start bleeding out. With a 10% chance of stabilization, then the whole process of bleeding out over hours, the chance of recovery is indeed slim.

That's just a normal longbow. Today, we have a lot more composite longbows in circulation compared to normal longbows. That extra point of damage could very easily mean death for the commoner.

Even assuming an expert (3.5 = 4 hp average), that's not much of a difference.

[drengnikrafe]

Human Bard 1 (Yes, I said bard)
Str: 7-8
Dex: 14
Con: 12
Int: 18
Wis: 16
Cha: 5-8
Skills:
Knowledge: Random Crap (4)
Knowledge: Math (2)
Perform (4)
Knowledge: Vocabulary (4)
Sense Motive (3)
Listen, Spot, Smell (-6)

Somehow able to substitute Int for Cha on all perform checks.
Bardic Knowledge
Inspire whatever bards get at first level

A feat that improves bardic knowledge. Or Skill Focus: Random Crap.

I'm a plethora of random and weird

[Dogmantra]

Me (http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=34063).

I think that's fairly close. If I could pick another feat, I'd probably pick either Dodge, Agile, or Run.

When I fight, I've noticed that pretty much in every "encounter," I have one or two attacks that just crush. That's my justification for the +1 damage 1/encounter, and guidance helps with that too.

My eyes are extremely sensitive to light, but I can see in low-light conditions pretty extraordinarily.
I've been inspired. I am statting myself both as a PC and a non PC just for the heck of it. Wizard time. :smalltongue:

[randomhero00]

Chaotic Neutral (I'm surprised I'm the only neutral) Human

Class- This is the fuzziest part since we all know even level 1 monks and fighters are pretty much above any of us. However, I actually have trained with shields, heavy armor, martial arts, grappling, etc for the last decade or so, so, even though it doesn't exactly exist, I'd be like 1/3 level fighter and 1/3 level monk i.e. not quite a level 1 anything. I'm not familiar with "Experts" and they don't quite seem to cut it anyway (like Expert Warrior doesn't seem to have any particular aptitude for unarmed fighting, although maybe that plus the feat is what I should have done).

Str- 12 I lift

Dex- 15 I am almost always (not the best but) the fastest person on the mat and have pulled off some incredible tricks to the cheers of a crowd

Con- 13? no clue I have a wicked strong immune system (I haven't had so much as a sniffle in 6+ years) but my endurance is terrible for someone of my athletic range (most I've run is 5 miles straight)

Int- 14 Straight A's through college and High School without breaking a sweat

Wis- 16 I've always been considered wise beyond my years. Was holding adult conversations by the time I was 7 or 8.

Cha - 12 I can convince most people of my PoV, but hardly the king of a party


Feats:
Flurry of Blows, Unarmed Strike

I don't think I'll bother with skills and proficiency since there'd be a lot and I don't think anyone cares.

[Dr.Epic]

Barbarian 1/ Rogue 1

Str: 10
Con: 14
Dex: 18
Int: 14
Wis: 16
Cha: 12

[Temotei]

Chaotic Neutral (I'm surprised I'm the only neutral) Human

Class- This is the fuzziest part since we all know even level 1 monks and fighters are pretty much above any of us. However, I actually have trained with shields, heavy armor, martial arts, grappling, etc for the last decade or so, so, even though it doesn't exactly exist, I'd be like 1/3 level fighter and 1/3 level monk i.e. not quite a level 1 anything. I'm not familiar with "Experts" and they don't quite seem to cut it anyway (like Expert Warrior doesn't seem to have any particular aptitude for unarmed fighting, although maybe that plus the feat is what I should have done).

Str- 12 I lift

Dex- 15 I am almost always (not the best but) the fastest person on the mat and have pulled off some incredible tricks to the cheers of a crowd

Con- 13? no clue I have a wicked strong immune system (I haven't had so much as a sniffle in 6+ years) but my endurance is terrible for someone of my athletic range (most I've run is 5 miles straight)

Int- 14 Straight A's through college and High School without breaking a sweat

Wis- 16 I've always been considered wise beyond my years. Was holding adult conversations by the time I was 7 or 8.

Cha - 12 I can convince most people of my PoV, but hardly the king of a party


Feats:
Flurry of Blows, Unarmed Strike

I don't think I'll bother with skills and proficiency since there'd be a lot and I don't think anyone cares.

Flurry of blows isn't a feat.

Your Charisma should be 10 with some ranks in Diplomacy.

Intelligence could be lower with a wide range of Knowledge skills.

Create a flaw that takes away from your endurance.

Dexterity could be lower with Sleight of Hand ranks.

Just saying. That's what I see from what you've said.

[Pronounceable]

Show me just ONE SINGLE person who'd claim an int lower than 9. Go on, I dare ya.

I'd give the same challenge if there was a stat which measures straight sexual prowess. There is NO ONE on this planet who's below average intelligence or bad in bed. Which sorta strains the concept of statistics, but it's a fact of life.

[drengnikrafe]

Show me just ONE SINGLE person who'd claim an int lower than 9. Go on, I dare ya.

I'd give the same challenge if there was a stat which measures straight sexual prowess. There is NO ONE on this planet who's below average intelligence or bad in bed. Which sorta strains the concept of statistics, but it's a fact of life.

I'm bad in bed.

That being said, us gamers generally have higher intelligence.

[randomhero00]

Flurry of blows isn't a feat.

Your Charisma should be 10 with some ranks in Diplomacy.

Intelligence could be lower with a wide range of Knowledge skills.

Create a flaw that takes away from your endurance.

Dexterity could be lower with Sleight of Hand ranks.

Just saying. That's what I see from what you've said.

Indeed. Assume its done. I don't care enough :D

[SurlySeraph]

Show me just ONE SINGLE person who'd claim an int lower than 9. Go on, I dare ya.

I'd give the same challenge if there was a stat which measures straight sexual prowess. There is NO ONE on this planet who's below average intelligence or bad in bed. Which sorta strains the concept of statistics, but it's a fact of life.

Well, a) our society puts a premium on intelligence these days. In the late 1800s I'm sure you'd find plenty of people willing to admit they were dumb but very few willing to admit they were weak, b) I've known people who considered themselves dumb, though they always added a caveat about common sense, and c) this is a forum full of nerds, a demographic that is defined largely by intelligence.

Also, I'm confident that I'm absolutely terrible in bed, though I wouldn't really know.

[Zaydos]

Show me just ONE SINGLE person who'd claim an int lower than 9. Go on, I dare ya.

I'd give the same challenge if there was a stat which measures straight sexual prowess. There is NO ONE on this planet who's below average intelligence or bad in bed. Which sorta strains the concept of statistics, but it's a fact of life.

Or possibly people who pursue intellectually engaging hobbies, that require familiarizing yourself with several books, tend to not be the same people with < 9 Int. As for the second... 6? I know I'm bad at it, though I don't really know how to measure with any usefulness.

You aren't taking a random sampling, you are sampling a group with a known bias in a certain direction.

[Tinydwarfman]

That said, most people are probably level 1 commoners. And don't get me started on d20 modern rules. Those are decidedly 'cinematic.' If you get shot with a 9mm pistol, you are going down. I've heard being shot is one of the most painful experiences in the world.

The real world is not very 'cinematic.' These game rules are designed for fictional, heroic, over-the-top action. The hard truth is that most people can't take the kind of punishment dished out in these games.

Actually, people who get shot with a 9mm are very unlikely to die. It is painful as hell sure, but unless you are shot in the vitals, you're going to live. I do agree with the fact that d&d rules cannot do this. The best system for it is obviously GURPS!

Here I am:

Name: Me!
Race: Human

Attributes [75]
ST 11 [10]
DX 11 [20]
IQ 12 [40]
HT 11 [10]

HP 11
Will 10 [-10]
Per 12
FP 11

Basic Lift 24
Damage 1d-1/1d+1

Basic Speed 5.5
Basic Move 6 [5]

Ground Move 6
Water Move 1

Social Background
TL: 8 [0]
Cultural Familiarities:
Languages:

Advantages [7]
Acute Taste and Smell (1) [2]
Fit [5]

Disadvantages [-40]
Laziness [-10]
Pacifism (Cannot Kill) [-15]
Short Attention Span [-10]
Social Stigma (Minor) [-5]

Skills [22]
Aikido Art DX/H - DX-1 10 [2]
Bicycling DX/E - DX+1 12 [2]
Brawling DX/E - DX+0 11 [1]
Breakfall Tech/A - def+1 11 [1]
Climbing DX/A - DX+2 13 [8]
Computer Operation/TL8 IQ/E - IQ+1 13 [2]
Computer Programming/TL8 IQ/H - IQ-2 10 [1]
Current Affairs/TL8 (Politics) IQ/E - IQ+0 12 [1]
Diplomacy IQ/H - IQ-2 10 [1]
Running HT/A - HT-1 10 [1]
Typing DX/E - DX+0 11 [1]
Writing IQ/A - IQ-1 11 [1]

Stats [75] Ads [7] Disads [-40] Quirks [0] Skills [22] = Total [64]

Since I'm only 16 I would also be dead broke w/ patron parents, but I remembered after I had already made this. Have tested all of stats against examples given in the books, but I am surprised I came out this high.

[absolmorph]

Show me just ONE SINGLE person who'd claim an int lower than 9. Go on, I dare ya.

I'd give the same challenge if there was a stat which measures straight sexual prowess. There is NO ONE on this planet who's below average intelligence or bad in bed. Which sorta strains the concept of statistics, but it's a fact of life.
First one: my girlfriend. We discussed this last night and I had to argue her up from a 2.
Second one: Me.

On stats:
Str 6-7 (I struggle to lift anything more than 20 pounds. 40 pounds is a stretch).
Dex 10 (I've picked up some skills that other people can't do, but it's mostly just learning)
Con 8-9 (I've got almost nothing on me. Little muscle and pretty much no fat. It's a result of my metabolism rather than exercise)
Int 12-13 (I learn stuff fast. I have a lot of knowledge, and can figure out quite a few problems)
Wis 10 (Average; I have common sense and I do listen to it, I just don't always follow it)
Cha 10 (I'm not especially good looking, I'm not great at persuading people.)

[Masaioh]

Lvl 3 NE Human Student
Str 10 (Used to lift weights, can probably lift as much weight as the next guy)
Dex 12 (Good hand-eye coordination and balance)
Con 8 (I can't run very far. At all)
Int 15 (I find myself explaining things to my professors once in a while)
Wis 13 (My friends usually come to me for advice)
Cha 10 (I consider myself eloquent, but I'm also pretty introverted)

Cold Resistance 5, Bluff 4, Diplomacy 6, Intimidate 7, Knowledge (Literature) 6, Listen 7, Perform (Oratory) 3, Swim 3

I actually used my int score to calculate my skill points.

[Temotei]

Lvl 3 NE Human Student
Str 10 (Used to lift weights, can probably lift as much weight as the next guy)
Dex 12 (Good hand-eye coordination and balance)
Con 8 (I can't run very far. At all)
Int 15 (I find myself explaining things to my professors once in a while)
Wis 13 (My friends usually come to me for advice)
Cha 10 (I consider myself eloquent, but I'm also pretty introverted)

Cold Resistance 5, Bluff 4, Diplomacy 6, Intimidate 7, Knowledge (Literature) 6, Listen 7, Perform (Oratory) 3, Swim 3

I actually used my int score to calculate my skill points.

:smalleek: Neutral Evil?

[dragonfan6490]

I think the biggest wrench in the gears when trying to stat yourself using D&D or d20 Modern rules is hit points.

How many of you can survive a blow to the chest from a fanged warmace?

Sure, you could argue that HP loss does not always equate to a hit, and that dropping into negative HP or whatever denotes when you are finally, decisively wounded, but most people die when struck by a sword.

I always thought it was odd how bows were not one of the higher damaging weapons in the game, considering an arrow to the neck/torso/head is pretty much curtains, and a hit anywhere else would turn you into a squealing, bleeding, twitching mess, begging for mercy.

That said, most people are probably level 1 commoners. And don't get me started on d20 modern rules. Those are decidedly 'cinematic.' If you get shot with a 9mm pistol, you are going down. I've heard being shot is one of the most painful experiences in the world.

The real world is not very 'cinematic.' These game rules are designed for fictional, heroic, over-the-top action. The hard truth is that most people can't take the kind of punishment dished out in these games.

Hit points are just an abstraction, so its difficult to evaluate their equivalent, but I would say that anything that doesn't kill you would be something like a scratch, bruising or cut on a part of your body that won't affect your ability to fight. Critical hits are meant to simulate when someone gets in a good shot, like an arrow in the neck or a sword blow to the chest.

Now for my stats:
NG
Str: 11 I lift weights and spar with my friends fairly often, but I feel that I'm just a little over average strength-wise.
Dex:12 I can dodge most things fairly easily and the sparing has quickened my reflexes.
Con: This one is hard, I don't get sick, ever, I can take a hit, but my stamina is pretty crappy, so I'd say 12
Int: 13 or 14 I'm currently in college, and make mostly B's without too much studying.
Wis: 13 I'm fairly perceptive and my friends have called me wise, but my common sense is just average.
Cha: 14 or 15 The reason for this is that I'm a very well liked person, can convince people to look at things from my POV, its very difficult for people to dislike or be mad at me, and I'm not a bad looking guy. :smallbiggrin:

Edit: Gave reasons for the rest of my stats

[Mastikator]

I did this once and worked backwards from my skills. And I ended up with having to be a 16+ int rogue with at least 4 levels. Which I don't think is very accurate, or even feasible.
Meh I don't have the sheet, I might re-make it tomorrow.

[Temotei]

Hit points are just an abstraction, so its difficult to evaluate their equivalent, but I would say that anything that doesn't kill you would be something like a scratch, bruising or cut on a part of your body that won't affect your ability to fight. Critical hits are meant to simulate when someone gets in a good shot, like an arrow in the neck or a sword blow to the chest.

Now for my stats:
NG
Str: 11
Dex:12
Con: This one is hard, I don't get sick, ever, but my stamina is pretty crappy, so I'd say 12
Int: 13 or 14
Wis: 13
Cha: 14 or 15 The reason for this is that I'm a very well liked person, can convince people to look at things from my POV, its very difficult for people to dislike or be mad at me, and I'm not a bad looking guy. :smallbiggrin:

Take a trait that increases disease/poison resistance and lowers your ability to stay up for a while. Maybe frail.

As I said for someone else, Diplomacy ranks could cover most of your Charisma score.

There's no reasons for the others, so I can't give feedback. :smalltongue:

[Kelb_Panthera]

On of those tests pegged me as a LE Monk. I don't necessarily agree with the evil part, but I could see myself as a 1st level monk. Pretty sure I've got weapon finesse, and improved init. Stunning fist for the bonus feat. I've got above average wis and int, but I'm not sure just where my scores fall. My str is probably average, and my dex a little higher. My con is astounding, I've taken hits that would easily knock most people out. Yay Scottish/Irish heritage. My cha is a bad joke though, 8-9 tops.

[Temotei]

Tests?

I'm always a NG bard 1/wizard 1 with:
Str: 15
Dex: 17
Con: 15
Int: 17
Wis: 16
Cha: 18

It's crazy.

[Rixx]

I remember working these out before:

Str 10
Dex 13
Con 11
Int 14
Wis 7
Cha 12

[Harperfan7]

A person with Int 9 probably doesn't read, much less get on internet forums for Int based games. I'm willing to bet there are a bunch of Int 18's on here, though I'm not one myself.

As for me, Commoner 1/Scout 2 - and very badly optimized
Str 12 (I can lift a 130lb person over my head - I'm a firefighter)
Dex 15 (I'm very agile and all around dexterous and people frequently say so)
Con 8-13 (I have both good and bad Con traits, so I'm somewhere in average)
Int 14/17 (that is 14 or 17, depending on how you value Int)
Wis 8-13 (same as con)
Cha 8-13 (same as con)

I started out as a pathetic commoner, which is why I don't have full ranks in the more useful scout skills. I probably have Blooded, Iron Will, and Agile as feats (I know, the DM barely let me play and called me a munchkin).

I have no more than 3 ranks in several useless art based craft skills, and 1-2 proffession skills, in fact, if my wis is negative, this would make even more sense. At least half of my commoner skills are cross class, and all my scout skills obviously have fewer than 4 ranks, minus spot. The only skills which benefit from my Int are knowledge nature and geography, the aforementioned craft: art skills, and search (so no computer programming or knowledge: something useful).

I am good with ranged weapons, whether thrown or projectile, but with no feats for them, I don't stand out. I played a lot of baseball growing up, and shot a lot of bows and guns, so I might have point blank shot, but even if I do, I never use it, so does it matter?
I am sneaky, but have no ranks in open lock, diable device, or sleight of hand, so its basically pointless except for creeping up on somebody and shooting them.

I know what you're thinking. Two levels in scout, really? Well, yes. I grew up in the woods, played hide and seek, capture the flag, and paintball all the time. I always thought I should have been in the military, except I'm CG, possibly low wis, and my skills aren't focused. My ex boss was a marine platoon seargeant in Desert Storm and was going to Afghanistan the last time I saw him, and after playing paintball with him (in the woods) and other people from work, he said, and I quote "Why the hell aren't you in the military?" (I wiped the floor with those guys).

So basically, when it comes down to it, it's
me > commoner, adventurer > me.
I can survive, but not conquer.

[Dr.Epic]

Barbarian 1/ Rogue 1

Str: 10
Con: 14
Dex: 18
Int: 14
Wis: 16
Cha: 12

Oh, forgot to do HP. Probably 20.

[The Deej]

I could try and take a stab at this (I did a 20th level exaggerated version of me once)

The Deej
Human College Slacker 1/Expert 1

STR 10 (I'm wiry;I don't have much on me, but I use it well)
DEX 14 (I have good coordination and mobility)
CON 14 (I never get sick, and I don't feel much pain)
INT 14 (assuming int~IQ/10)
WIS 12 (the elders at my church consider me a wise person)
CHA 6 (I make bad jokes all the time)

Skills: balance 1, bluff 1, climb 5, concentration 5, craft (electronic device) 1, diplomacy 1, disable device 2, hide 5, jump 1, Knowledge (engineering) 1, Knowledge (geography) 1, Knowledge (history) 1, Knowledge (nature) 2, Knowledge (religeon) 5, move silently 5, survival 1

lowlight vision: I can see very well in all but complete pitch blackness.

Induce Facepalm (Su): I can tell jokes and make quips that are so bad that they induce an urge to facepalm.


Summary: I am a very focused type who learns fast, and has a lot of random knowledge. I'm a EET Major, and have enough know-how to make basic electronic devices, as well as fix most any electronic device (I once got my brother's ipod to work again after being run through a washing machine). I could also just as easily sabotage them. I ran distance in track, and was a long jumper. I am also an avid tree (or anything else) climber. If it'll hold my weight, I can get on top of it. I also tend to be good at forming arguments and logical thought in general, but occasionally I say something that makes me look dumb as a brick (in social situations).

If anyone wants me to take a stab at my 'in bed stat', (I think I heard that that was a perform() in BoEF) I probably have a -2 modifier. Couldn't tell you for certain, since I've never found out.

[CockroachTeaParty]

Actually, people who get shot with a 9mm are very unlikely to die. It is painful as hell sure, but unless you are shot in the vitals, you're going to live. I do agree with the fact that d&d rules cannot do this. The best system for it is obviously GURPS!


I didn't say die in my original post, I said if you get shot with a 9mm you're going down. As in, it will drop you, and you'll be in a mind-boggling amount of pain. Oddly, that is reflected pretty well, assuming about 3 hp per person and an average roll of 3.5 on a d6 (or is it 7 on 2d6? I don't remember).

But my biggest problem is anyone claiming to be over level 1 and being able to survive a single sword slash, arrow, bullet, etc. It's just not happening.

[pyrefiend]

Str: 10 (I don't work out, but for some reason am still decently strong. Nothing special though.)
Dex:8 (Or 7. I'm fairly uncoordinated, can't tie knots, and have always had terrible aim.)
Con: 10 (I have OK stamina, I get sick somewhat rarely and it's never anything too serious.)
Int: 14 (I maintain honor roll in mostly advanced-placement courses at a difficult school, but I'm not brilliant.)
Wis: 8 (I forget things very frequently, and my judgment is often wrong. I overlook things easily and have poor sight.)
Cha: 15 (I make friends very easily, I have a good sense of humor, am an actor and can lie convincingly.)

Probably the inattentive flaw too... I only wish my low wisdom was enough to account for that.

[Temotei]

I didn't say die in my original post, I said if you get shot with a 9mm you're going down. As in, it will drop you, and you'll be in a mind-boggling amount of pain. Oddly, that is reflected pretty well, assuming about 3 hp per person and an average roll of 3.5 on a d6 (or is it 7 on 2d6? I don't remember).

But my biggest problem is anyone claiming to be over level 1 and being able to survive a single sword slash, arrow, bullet, etc. It's just not happening.

People survive slashes, arrows, bullets, etc. all the time. It just matters where they're shot, and how lucky they are.

A pistol in Modern does 2d6.

People over 1st level could have rolled 1's every level after, and rolled a 1 for their first level, since NPC's don't get max hit points at first level.

[Jergmo]

Hm, took it again and the only difference was charisma.

I would be:
Jergmo, Neutral Good 1st or 2nd level human Expert (just like everyone else here, except for a few)
Str 9
Dex 11
Con 12
Int 14
Wis 14
Cha 14
(Some people think that I would have 15's for mental stats, but eh. 14 is the high end of above average, 15 is the low end of exceptional, I think. Whatev's.)
Two feats to play with, though I'm not sure what they'd be yet. At this point, most of my skill points are...unspent. I'm a work in progress. I plan on working on a degree in physical therapy, and attending a massage therapy school when I can affordi t.

I'm working on getting in shape, though!

[theMycon]

CG Human Expert 1 (w/Saint Template) (Mathematician/programmer)

STR: 14 or so. I'm usually the strongest person in the room, including about a 50/50 shot when I'm at the (yuppie) gym.

Dex- 6? 7? I'm fairly clumsy; I accidentally crush/smash/break things all the time & have poor reflexes.

Con- 14?16? I've been sick once, I can run until I get bored, foods that have people curled into a ball crying for a few hours rarely hurt me. People often cringe or gasp watching me take an injury which I ignore.

Int- 8? I got slightly-above-average grades at college, but have a hard time focusing or remembering facts. It might be from all the pot I smoked or my various rugby-related head injuries, but my short-term memory is essentially non-existent.

Wis - No idea. I often know something is a bad idea (impossible, dangerous, stupid, etc.), but do it anyway (love, challenge, boredeom). Often multiple times. However, I usually know what to expect and made plans (also backup, contingency, extra, & spare plans) that make me come out even.

Cha- 18. I can walk in a room and people will stare; I can say "hi" and they'll spend an hour just trying to make my day better, if I tell them "thank you" they'll spend four. I never have to pay for coffee. I only have to pay cover half the time when I go out. While I tip well & try my best to be polite, the only times I can remember paying for a drink in the past year are when I tell the bartender that I'm getting it for my boyfriend/my sister. I've (accidentally) convinced the VP of sales to give me the wall of his "modular office" so I can have a door to my cubicle.



In brief, it seems my body is in decent condition, my brain is barely functional, and I'm nice enough that theoretically hostile strangers fall in love once they meet me face-to-face. I'd likely try to summon Pazuzu just for the hell of it, and if he tried to tempt me into a deal-with-the-devil, he'd end up giggling madly, we'd trade a small favor with no strings attached, and then become pen-pals and forget it was ever about business.

[penbed400]

Penbed400
Neutral Good Human Commoner

Str: 9 (I'm not weak per se but I'd say a bit on the low curve of average)
Dex: 12 (13) (I'm fairly agile and I can sprint fairly well but I am better around late fall when I've been playing soccer for a few weeks)
Con: 13 (I don't get sick a lot, maybe twice a year, fought off swine flu etc.)
Int: 14 (I have good grades, I'm in advanced classes, my tested IQ is 144, I can figure out problems well, good at tactics etc.)
Wis: 6 (I've lost 80% of the hearing in my right ear, glasses, no memory, no resistance to mental compulsion)
Cha:15 (I'm popular, the class clown, everybody knows me, I'm very well liked and I don't look too terrible *cue hair smoothing*)

Ranks: Perform (Comedy) 4, Knowledge (Programming) 1, Knowledge (Life Science) 1, Knowledge (Mathematics) 2, Profession (Philosophy) 2, Bluff 2, Diplomacy 1, Use Rope 1

Languages: English, French (15%)

Feats: Run, Skill Focus (Perform (Comedy))

[Siosilvar]

In 3.5?
NPCSiosilvar, NG Human Expert 1
S7, D14, C8, I15, W9, C11
4 hp, AC 12 (13)
Feats: Dodge, MWP (Rapier)
Skills: blah

Built as an actual character (Note: I played in a "play yourself" game until IRL issues cropped up, and this is pretty close to what my stats were)Siosilvar, NG Grey Elf Wizard 1/Swashbuckler 1
S6, D18, C8, I20, W9, C11 (32 point buy)
6 hp, AC 14 (15)
Fort +1, Refl +4, Will +1
Traits: Absent-Minded, Nearsighted, Honest, Quick
Feats: Weapon Finesse, Dodge
Skill Ranks: Balance +7, Concentration +3, Craft (ideas) +7, Diplomacy +3, Escape Artist +6, Jump +3, Listen +0, Knowledge (random useless crap) +8, Knowledge (math) +9, Spot -2, Tumble +6

You could make a pretty good case for Lawful or Chaotic.

[Temotei]

CG Human Expert 1 (w/Saint Template) (Mathematician/programmer)

STR: 14 or so. I'm usually the strongest person in the room, including about a 50/50 shot when I'm at the (yuppie) gym.

Dex- 6? 7? I'm fairly clumsy; I accidentally crush/smash/break things all the time & have poor reflexes.

Con- 14?16? I've been sick once, I can run until I get bored, foods that have people curled into a ball crying for a few hours rarely hurt me. People often cringe or gasp watching me take an injury which I ignore.

Int- 8? I got slightly-above-average grades at college, but have a hard time focusing or remembering facts. It might be from all the pot I smoked or my various rugby-related head injuries, but my short-term memory is essentially non-existent.

Wis - No idea. I often know something is a bad idea (impossible, dangerous, stupid, etc.), but do it anyway (love, challenge, boredeom). Often multiple times. However, I usually know what to expect and made plans (also backup, contingency, extra, & spare plans) that make me come out even.

Cha- 18. I can walk in a room and people will stare; I can say "hi" and they'll spend an hour just trying to make my day better, if I tell them "thank you" they'll spend four. I never have to pay for coffee. I only have to pay cover half the time when I go out. While I tip well & try my best to be polite, the only times I can remember paying for a drink in the past year are when I tell the bartender that I'm getting it for my boyfriend/my sister. I've (accidentally) convinced the VP of sales to give me the wall of his "modular office" so I can have a door to my cubicle.



In brief, it seems my body is in decent condition, my brain is barely functional, and I'm nice enough that theoretically hostile strangers fall in love once they meet me face-to-face. I'd likely try to summon Pazuzu just for the hell of it, and if he tried to tempt me into a deal-with-the-devil, he'd end up giggling madly, we'd trade a small favor with no strings attached, and then become pen-pals and forget it was ever about business.

That sounds like Diplomacy to me. Maybe some Bluff thrown in there as well. Just break the rules and take 24 ranks in Diplomacy. :smalltongue:

[Tinydwarfman]

I didn't say die in my original post, I said if you get shot with a 9mm you're going down. As in, it will drop you, and you'll be in a mind-boggling amount of pain. Oddly, that is reflected pretty well, assuming about 3 hp per person and an average roll of 3.5 on a d6 (or is it 7 on 2d6? I don't remember).

But my biggest problem is anyone claiming to be over level 1 and being able to survive a single sword slash, arrow, bullet, etc. It's just not happening.

I still don't know about going down. Sure a normal person who has no combat training and isn't hurt very often will probably be rolling on the ground, but soldiers or martial artists train themselves to take a hit physically and mentally. Also, D&D is not realistic. PCs are not constrained by the limits of our physics. I think it is stupid that lvl 10 fighters can get stabbed in the eye and not even notice it, and would much rather have it done the way it is in GURPS (active defenses), but its so much easier to find d&d games:smallfrown:.

[SurlySeraph]

Wis - No idea. I often know something is a bad idea (impossible, dangerous, stupid, etc.), but do it anyway (love, challenge, boredeom). Often multiple times. However, I usually know what to expect and made plans (also backup, contingency, extra, & spare plans) that make me come out even.

I'd call that average-to-high wisdom with a Chaotic alignment.

[Dienekes]

Let's see here

Me

Expert 1/Warrior 1 (I figure for job and college for the expert, and my years as a martial artist/wrestler/footballer for warrior)

TN

Str 15 (according to lift things over head test last time I tried)
Dex 8 (Oy my hand-eye coordination is abysmal, or anything related to being dexterous)
Con 12-15 (I can take a hit as well as about anyone, though I get sick like any other person)
Int 14-16 (My tests say I'm really smart, we'll see)
Wis 8-11 (I won't notice the broad side of a barn, but I can generally have good common sense)
Cha 8-11 (I am one ugly son-of-a-gun, but I can be persuasive and have a strong personality)

Skills
I'd have some points in Knowledge (history and religion), Swimming, Bluff, Intimidate, Sense Motive, Perform (sing), and maybe a point or two in Diplomacy but not much.

Feats
maybe Iron Will, Endurance (I was the 500 free style and butterfly swimmer), and I would like to say Improved Bull Rush from football but I probably do not have power attack so that is out.

[Lioness]

Str: 6 (I suck...)
Dex: 11
Con: 8
Int: 14
Wis: 10
Cha: 12

[Brendan]

hmmm...
strength: 9 I don't lift weights, and as a general rule value sports as a distraction.
dexterity: 12 I'm able to cook quite well, which is partially dexterity based, and can avoid obstacles.
constitution: 15 I run cross country and haven't had a cold, flu, or really any disease im the majority of my life. I can ignore cold, which, while more willpower (I intentionally forget that coldness exists temporarily) contains a good amount of constitution
intelligence: 16 I am the top of my class in science and am in honors classes. I read constantly and know some great facts
wisdom: fluctuates between 4-13 I go between randomly tackling a friend to voluntarily ignoring and forgetting the existence of "cold"
charisma: 13 I can convince people to listen and agree without much difficulty.

CN Human expert 1
hide: 2 move silently: 3 autohypnosis: 2 knowledge:chemistry: 4 knowledge: academics: 4 intimidate: 3 diplomacy: 2 bluff: 4 swim: 1 (plus 1 inherent biological bonus) perform(theatrics): 2 profession(techie) 2 sense motive: 3 listen: 2
feats: endurance, improved initiative

[Dacia Brabant]

I'm a Cloistered Cleric in a no-magic campaign world. Go me. :smalltongue:

Neutral Good: Because I believe that as valuable as laws and customs can be in human society, they're not the determiner of what Good is, and individual human freedom must be respected so long as it's not used willfully to harm another person.

Expert 3/Cloistered Cleric 1: I'm estimating two master's degrees and several years' professional work experience to be worth at least that many class levels. If that adds up to an unrealistic amount of HP, let's just say I rolled all 1s. Wish I could write about the CC level but rules unfortunately are rules; suffice to say it fits better than another Expert level.

I'll assume elite array for stats, 'cause I'm cool like that.

Str 12 (always have had a good amount of muscle mass)
Dex 8 (bulky and slow to react)
Con 10 (overweight but decently resistant to sickness/pain)
Int 14 (quick study with solid retention of information)
Wis 16 (strong willed and in tune with my senses)
Cha 13 (pretty effective for an introvert at dealing with people)

Skills: Bluff +5, Craft (photography) +4, Decipher Script +6, Diplomacy +5, Gather Information +5, Knowledge (geography) +6, Knowledge (history) +12, Knowledge (local) +6, Knowledge (nature) +4, Knowledge (religion) +9, Listen +5, Profession (cook) +5, Profession (teacher) +5, Profession (writer) +10, Sense Motive +7, Speak Language (Latin, reading only), Spot +5, Swim +2.

Feats and Special Abilities: Able Learner, Iron Will, Skill Focus: Knowledge (history), Lore.

Domains: Good, Knowledge, Liberation.

If I ever hit 6th level I'm totally taking Knowledge Devotion. :smallbiggrin:

[arguskos]

Under D&D 3.5 rules, this is how I turn out:
Male CG Commoner 1
HP: 4 (1d4+2, assume average roll rounded down)
AC: 9 (10-1 Dex)

Attacks: pocketknife +0 melee (1d3 slashing, x2 crit)

Str 11 (averagely strong, don't work out but am well built)
Dex 8 (I can't dodge a damn thing)
Con 9 (I don't get ill much, but I have a few recurrent health issues)
Int 12 (I'm kinda smart, but am really outclassed by most people in college)
Wis 10 (being 21 will do that to you >_>)
Cha 6 (I stick my foot in my mouth a lot)

Skills:
Profession (D&D DM) +4
Craft (Food) +4
Craft (D&D Homebrew) +4

Feats:
Skill Focus (Profession [D&D DM])
Toughness

Equipment:
-pocketknife
-wallet
-clothing

[Lyth]

Well, it's worth a shot....it's been awhile since I played with 3.5, so forgive me if I'm off on skill points and such.

Chaotic Good
Human Writer

STR 10 (average)
DEX 10 (fairly nimble, but I can be a klutz)
CON 8 (I get sick a lot)
INT 13 (going by IQ/10)
WIS 12 (I'm told I'm a fairly good mediator and I have a level head)
CHA 11 (I don't have a very forceful personality, but I have some leader in me)

Knowledge (History) +10
Knowledge (Religion) +5
Profession (Writer) +7
Bluff +5
Swim +10
Ride +2
Listen +5
Perform (Sing) +5
Survival +5

And I can't remember any feats off the top of my head....so yeah.

[Laharal]

MMmm fairly amusing, let's see

My own scale so you know:
9: Low average example Int 9: Still not odd compared to common (10) people, maybe just undeveloped
10: Average of your society
11: A little bit above, strong average ex: Int 11= clever
12: Above average ex: Int 12 you are regarded by your peers as an intelligent person though you are still a part of ''the people'' (if you peers are 10 for the purpose of this example :smallbiggrin:)
13: Gifted ex: Int 13 (depending on the scale and blah blah) IQ of around 140 I think...
14: High achiever/ Highly gifted ex: Int 14 (house definition, let's say top 5% of your country)
15: Small and top percentage of the world pop ex: Int 15:Genius
And in my opinion there were only a few 16's-17's in mankind's history

Why extend stats of 90% of the pop to 18 or 20? Sorry to all geeks out there (including a 1/4 of myself :smallbiggrin:) but a few people are THAT special.

Lvl LG-NG 4 expert/student/cook/omg what will I do?

Str 9.5: With a little more physical activity I should get to a 10.
Dex 10: Nothing special, though I think that I have a potential of being ambidextrous in some contexts (with some training).
Con Varies
8-9: Light astma (never had a crisis), allergies, rhinitis
10-11: I'm not impact-force-strong (STR) but I think I'm quite endurant to prolonged effort, working standing-up for long hours, working in a hot environment, etc.
Int 12.5 :Sometimes learn fast, sometimes slowly but I learn, infer, link, question a lot, doubt and also follow the crowd sometimes. I am seen as a logic person with strong emotions (self-contradiction I know) If for your it is important, IQ and grades are above average (grades sometimes unders..lol) without being..wow! Maybe I could do more with the right kick in the butt ;)
Wis Varies
7-8 Hearing: You are in front of me and I sometimes make you repeat, sense of smell is not very acute
Speacial hearing mode that appears at random times: Tremorsense: I have problems hearing you speaking in my face but I can ''feel'' somebody in the building a good amount of time before everybody else.
''Mind'' wisdom: 11.5: I'm the cautious and philosophical one without ''believing myself'' too much. However if for you Wis would encompass ''Zen'' then give me a big -10 !
Cha 11 most of the time maybe even a 12 at some occasions: Physically I'm average though well dressed I can get a 10.5 :smallbiggrin: I can break the ice easily, I can adapt to many (but not all) types of people, I got a good sense of humor,I'm ok at convincing people and I'm told to be a good listener or a good friend when somebody (close to me or not) has something to tell to someone. I got some experience in group management and customer service and I'm told that I'm good at it. BTW thanks to mommy for teaching me on how to be polite.. probably a big reason for the 11-12 :smallsmile:
8-9: 15% of the time: I can get paranoid about people's intentions, grumpy, lone wolf, or too much ''obliged'' towards people.. which results in getting on their nerves, or when I'm physically slow at doing something and that people get grumpy a little :smallsmile:

Skills:
Knowledge in history 5, politics 4 , economics 3 , sociology 2,art history 2, cooking 3 , geography 4 , languages 5, translation 2, cinema 2, wine and beer: 1
Profession: Student in language teaching (in progress :smallbiggrin:) , Cook 5 (not just food but hygiene, how to take make food rotations, inventories, etc etc)
Craft: Cooking 5
Survival 1 ( I know how to light a campfire... what???...not everyone knows how to..... :smallbiggrin:lol)
Diplomacy 4
Swim 2
Move silently (at random times) 5 I sneak behind people when I don't want to... creepy :smallbiggrin:

Haven't looked at the total points I should have used... just tried to reflect life

Languages: 3 spoken/read and written

Feats: Hmmmmm anything that gives a bonus to will power which enables me to not quit before it is done.. even if it is though, painful or pointless :smallbiggrin: and probably a skill focus on a knowledge.. history or languages

Weapons: My dream weapon would be a war quarter staff or a double voulge. In real life I'd got nothing.. however I was told by a veteran (I think) LARPer that was doing a contest at my Cegep (between high school and univ in Quebec) in a carnaval that I has a ''natural stance'' with a sword.... So by default maybe the short sword...and maybe with a dagger if I can practice my ambidextery

If I had to be caricatured as a Dnd race, half-elf or elf.. tall, was slender until recently, long ears, charismatic, intelligent a bit but not that tough but quite stubborn ;)

Don't wanna look egocentric.. just needed to unwind a little bit.. Thanks playground!!

[Gamgee]

Level 3 Smart Hero
Neutral Good
8 HP
Str 10
Dex 12
Con 10
Int 15
Wis 14
Cha 12

[CockroachTeaParty]

I still don't know about going down. Sure a normal person who has no combat training and isn't hurt very often will probably be rolling on the ground, but soldiers or martial artists train themselves to take a hit physically and mentally. Also, D&D is not realistic. PCs are not constrained by the limits of our physics. I think it is stupid that lvl 10 fighters can get stabbed in the eye and not even notice it, and would much rather have it done the way it is in GURPS (active defenses), but its so much easier to find d&d games:smallfrown:.

Eh, I guess it's not worth killing cat girls, but D&D can never take into account every little weird thing the human body is capable of under stress, etc.

For instance, I once ran myself over with my own car (don't ask). For about two minutes afterward I was fine, until the adrenaline wore off. Then I collapsed like a bag of cement. How could adrenaline be simulated? Action points? I have no idea. You hear stories of people lifting flipped cars to get at loved ones, all hopped up on adrenaline, so who knows? What is that, a barbarian's rage? DM fiat?

Screw this campaign. I didn't get to pick the class I wanted, and I'm leveling way too slow. My Red Hand of Doom character went from level 5 to level 12 over the span of about two weeks! I've been alive almost 23 years, and I'm probably still 1st level!

[Pronounceable]

I've been proven wrong. Interesting, that didn't happen before.
...
For that, I'll try my hand at this:

Human Wizard 1 (without any spells)
CN with LE tendencies (I'm all for LE oppression of people other than me and mine, but personal life utterly CN)
Str: 8 or maybe even 7 (I find the idea of physical work abhorrent)
Dex: 9 (subpar, but not terrible)
Con: 12 (I'm quite healthy)
Int: 14 or mayhaps 15 (everyone keep saying I'm very smart so they have me convinced)
Wis: 13 (I've always been wise beyond my years, but I think my years finally caught up to that wisdom)
Cha: 7-16 (depending on a whole lot of things, not the least of which is the amount of alcohol consumed)

(The skill cap is a lie!)
Knowledge (physics, mathematics): +6
Knowledge (chemistry): +4
Knowledge (biology, computer programming, electronics, astronomy, lab experimentation): +2
(main skills that I ought to have from majoring in physics is severely lacking compared to my friends)
Knowledge/Profession/maybe even Perform (funny): +10
(not sure which is more suitable for regularly cracking jokes that send people into hysteria, plus knowing a plethora of funny stuff from lolcats to real world events)
Profession (translation): +8 (despite my major, this is what I'm doing and actually good at)
Move Silently: +4 (I seem to have an inherent stealth ability)
Intimidate: +2 (apparently people randomly get intimidated when I'm around)
Bluff: +3 (I think I can lie well, but it might be totally wrong)
Perform (sing, dance): -6 (I got a racial penalty I think)

[BloodyAngel]

These things are always fun. I've even played in a few games as myself, and it's great fun. After all, it's far more exciting if my scrawny butt manages to do something heroic rather than some huge, muscled barbarian or highly skilled assassin.

My sheet!

Str: 8 (I'm short and built really skinny... And drawing doesn't really lend to lots of muscle.)
Dex: 12 (Not bad. I have good balance and good hand-eye coordination. Could be higher, but I'm being realistic)
Con: 10 (Nothing special. Tougher than a girl my size looks, but not by much)
Int: 14 (Between a few IQ tests and the statements of others, I'm confident at putting my Int at 14. Easily my best stat.)
Wis: 10 (Stubborn and strong-willed but not perceptive balances out to normal by my math.)
Char: 12 (The hardest stat to guess at. I tend to take charge in my group, and I have a lot of friends... but I'm still keeping it realistic)

Feats: Iron Will, Skill Focus: Craft (Drawing)

My class in real life is Expert (Artist)... probably level 2 or 3 at best.

Has anyone given thought to running a game on the forums where everyone has to play themselves? Could be interesting.

[absolmorph]

Perform (sing, dance): -6 (I got a racial penalty I think)
I think we share that quality. Or lack of quality.

[Zen Master]

Hm - it's an interesting challenge, right? Trying to be honest with oneself about these things.

I remember that in 2nd edition, going by max press I'd be str 16. I'm hardly limber, but I do high-performance exercise (boxing, to be exact - if only the fitness sort that wont get me a broken nose), so my con should be decent. Call that dex 9, con 12. I score in the top 5% of IQ tests, enough to enter mensa - however, I'm forgetful and somewhat disinterested and happy-go-lucky. I'd say int 14, wis 12. Finally, depending on the audience, I can be either very charismatic or quite the opposite. I'd take a 14 cha, but with a -4 circumstatial modifier.

Giving us:

Str 16
Dex 9
Con 12
Int 14
Wis 12
Cha 10 (though 14 in certain cases, professionally for instance)

Now, I quite honestly consider myself to be a top-notch genetic specimen. So some of you others who posted way better stats for yourselves must be imposing figures of pure awesome. Not that it matter in any way, but still.

As for levels? I'd say I'm something like a level 5-ish expert, and being in sales and marketing, I'd call my focus manipulation. Skills like bluff, diplomacy, intimidate and similar maxed.

[Harperfan7]

I score in the top 5% of IQ tests, enough to enter mensa...

Don't let your IQ scores give you the impression that you can get into mensa.
If I had a time machine, well, let's just say I'd be $40 dollars richer and a lot wiser about trusting IQ tests.

[Frozen_Feet]

Okay, here's roughly what I'd look like in 3.5 terms.

Level 2 LG human expert

HP: 8
BAB: +1
Saves: Fort +1, Ref -1, Will +6
Feats: Imp. unarmed strike, Skill Focus (craft: welding), weapon focus (assault rifle)*
Flaws: Murky-eyed

STR 10 (slightly below average upper body, slightly above average middle and lower body strength)
DEX 9 (I'm stiff and bit on the clumsy side. Getting better with martial arts training, though)
CON 12 (Above average stamina, good health, very resilient to pain)
INT 14 (Based on wacky statistics about IQ and dice rolls)
WIS 16 (Hard to quantify, but I've been noted for strong willpower, ponderous mind and unusually insightful notes about the world)
CHA - (I tend to stand out in a crowd, but rarely in a way beneficial to me [*cough* class clown *cough*]. I'm socially awkward, but considered trustworthy and noted for minor leadership qualities. Um, help?)

Skill ranks:

Knowledge (Architecture & Engineering) 5
Knowledge (Mathematics) 5
Knowledge (Religion) 3
Heal 2
Diplomacy 3
Profession (Plumber) 3
Gather information 2
Craft (welding) 5
Use rope 2
Survival 2
Tumble (cross class) 2
Concentration (cross class) 2


*) any idiot can use AK-47, so I consider it simple.

[BigBadBugbear]

Hello all, This is the first post for me on this forum and I could not think of a better way of introducing myself….


lvl 1 warrior (I active practice 'Medival Swordfighting' and my hobby is 'Life Action Role Play', level 2 expert (I studied Civil Engineering, and i'm now working at a building company)

Strengt 16-17: I'm huge, i'm 7 feet and 4 inch and I benchpress about 160 kg. I also play in our city rugby team. In 'L.A.R.P.' i wear a chainmail and fullplate for a total of 100lb.
Dex 6-7: I'm clumsy, easy to hit. Friends call me 'Captain Destructo'' cause i accedentally break things (including warhammer models..)
Con 16-17: I can take hits, never get sick go in the most extreme rollercoasters and walk on after a broken leg. I also have to drink alcohol a lot before even feeling tipsy… But I can only run a short wile… I think thats a kind of flaw… It could have something to do with my weight…
Int 9-10: I think I'm not stupid, but I'm not a book worm.. I have to do things before I can learn them.. Accounting to my laguages and skills I'm supposed to have 16...
Wis 12-13: I always advise people, and I seem to notice everything, including subtile changes..
Cha 9-10: Because I'm huge, people always look at me and think i'm wierd and scary, I'm over weight. But I seem always to make new friends

Languages:
Dutch (I'm Dutch…whoohoo, cheese and weeds… and something for the adult guys in amsterdam :P)
English
German
French (A bit)

Skills:
Handle Animal (Dogs Only) 3 ranks (+3)
Balance 2 ranks (+0)
Speak Languages (Class skill) 3 ranks
Craft (Carpenting) 4 ranks (+4)
Craft (Metal Working) 2 ranks (+2)
Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 6 ranks (+6)
Profession (Civil Engineer) 6 ranks (+7)
Disable Device (2 ranks) (+2)

Feats:
Toughness (See Con desciption)
Great Fortitude (See Con desciption)
Persuasive (Big and scary, good with friends)

Powerfull Build (Ex): Well…. Lets say.. I'm 7 feet and 4 inch and I weigh about 350 lb

[Zen Master]

Don't let your IQ scores give you the impression that you can get into mensa.
If I had a time machine, well, let's just say I'd be $40 dollars richer and a lot wiser about trusting IQ tests.

It's their test I passed. Only just, but I passed it. But it's not like I was applying - a friend who is a member submitted me to the test. I cannot say for certain it contained all the proper ritual sacrifice and so on :)

[Pigkappa]

I've always preferred the whitewolf model for mapping out humans.

Str *
Dex **
Con ***
Cha ***
Man ***
App **
Per *
Int ****
Wit ****

(but if you must have it in D&D, I'm probably str 8, dex 12, con 14, int 18, wis 14, cha 10)

Since that's funny, I'm going to do this that way :smallbiggrin:


Attributes:

Str **
Dex * - I suck at most manual activities.
Con **

Int *** - maybe even 4; I'm studying Physics in the most important college of my country.
Wits **
Resolve **

Presence ** - maybe 1, I'm really bad at this.
Manipulation **.
Composure **.


Skills:

Academics **
Computer *
Politics *
Science *** (Physics specialization)

Weaponry * (I practiced fencing some years ago...)

Animal Ken * (not really sure, maybe 0...)
Expression *
Persuasion *


Merits:

(Language: Italian *** doesn't count since that's my native language)
Language: Latin *
Language: English ** (hopefully **, maybe *...)

Fleet of Foot * (I run strangely fast for my Dex score)
Resources *
Status * (my college...)

Humanity: 7, I guess.


(in D&D: Str 9, Dex 8, Con 10, Int 14/15, Wis 10, Cha 8/9)

Most of your character sheets are much better than the average D&D NPC... That is, Int 15 is a really high stats for example, and getting good grades shouldn't be enough to justify that IMHO. Someone with Strength 17 is definitely one of the strongest people in the world.

[BigBadBugbear]

Well, what I calculated for strength was my maximum load... 350lb equals 17... That is what I can Bench-Press..

If you calculate it equal to lift off ground.. then it should be 14 str...

And yes, i'm the strongest one at our gym...

[Harperfan7]

There are a bunch of people out there with with 20+ str, or at least can get above 20 with rage.

[Pigkappa]

I didn't mean your one was inappropriate - you have a deep background for that (you do wear "heavy armor" and the like). But there's been a lot of high scores, several Str > 15, Int > 14, even some 18s (Dex 18, Cha 18), even some Int 17 or 18. I'm happy for all of these people who are so lucky to have those stats :smalltongue:.

[BigBadBugbear]

I really thnk that sounds funny.. praise peeps for their stats

[SurlySeraph]

Most of your character sheets are much better than the average D&D NPC... That is, Int 15 is a really high stats for example, and getting good grades shouldn't be enough to justify that IMHO. Someone with Strength 17 is definitely one of the strongest people in the world.

[shameless bragging]Is getting into Harvard enough to justify 15 INT?[/shameless bragging]

And I wouldn't say any more than 15 INT for me. I know people with 18 INT. Most of them are professors; a couple are students. I do not have 18 INT.

[Optimystik]

Stats in sig

[Gnaritas]

Str 8 (probably due to a -2 size penalty)
Dex 14 (i am pretty agile and athletic by nature, though age is starting to get the best of me, so probably 13 by now)
Con 12 (i get sick like an average person, but my natural endurance is (was) quite high)
Int 15 (i went to university and stuff, didnt get spectacular grades, but i am as lazy as can be, well, i was.)
Wis 12 (i do not consider myself very wise, though i am occasionally amazed at what other people do not know, so i guess that makes me above average)
Cha 12 (i am generally a well-liked person, but i have too many bad habits to dare make this any higher.)

[waterpenguin43]

This is what I got off that online quiz:
Chaotic Neutral Human Druid/Cleric (1st/1st Level)

Ability Scores:
Strength- 10
Dexterity- 12
Constitution- 12
Intelligence- 16
Wisdom- 18
Charisma- 13

Here are my "corrected" stats:
Chaotic Good* Human Druid or Water Shugenja lvl 1

Ability Scores:
Strength- 6 (God, I'm friggin' weak.)
Dexterity- 12 (Agile and good at dancing, but hardly doing triple backflips.)
Constitution- 12 (Am best at enduring long walks than at more strength-y sports and I don't get sick quite as often as others I know.)
Intelligence- 12-16 (My IQ was "very high" by a proffesional psychiatrist. Probably 13 or 14. I'm also in several gifted programs.)
Wisdom- 14-16 (I'm wiser than almost everyone in my grade, if not everyone, not that this is saying much..., also, I managed to develop a scheme for luring my friend out of his house and me sneaking in, just to show him I could. It was in Grade 7.:smallbiggrin:)
Charisma- 13-14 (I have a rather..... strong personality, but I'm not that attractive.)

Feats:
-Skill Focus(knowledge:nature)
-Deceitful
*I'm generally willing to help people who need any, so long as I don't have a long history of hating them (CG's are allowed to hate, right? Plus, they forced me to give up bhuddism!! Just for hating them!) I also have a very strong moodswing issue, going easily from happy to sad to livid in about 3 minutes.

[Frozen_Feet]

Actually, if we go by dice statistics, even a straight 18 represents something one person out of 216 has. Hardly world's greatest. So all untypical scores tell that the forum is preferred by untypical people. Really, that's just to be expected.

[Shnezz]

Level 1 Human Student
Neutral Good
Strength: 6 (Weak)
Dexterity: 6 (Clumsy)
Constitution: 10 (Average)
Intelligence: 14 (Good)
Wisdom: 10 (Average)
Charisma: 16 (Good)

Feats: Knowledge (Trivial Information): 5, Knowledge (School) 2, Skill Focus (Pretending to pay attention)

[Harperfan7]

Actually, if we go by dice statistics, even a straight 18 represents something one person out of 216 has. Hardly world's greatest. So all untypical scores tell that the forum is preferred by untypical people. Really, that's just to be expected.

I agree. It's the 18 + good skills/feats + class levels that make somebody special.

[FirebirdFlying]

Mm.

Level 1 TN w/ LG tendencies Human Commoner,
7 Str - Weak. Small and weak.
8 Dex - Consistently tripping over myself.
10 Con - Pretty average, I think.
14-15 Int - Academically gifted.
8 Wis - I'm bad at telling what people want, noticing things, etc.
8 Cha - It's not so much that I annoy people as that I sort of fade into the crowd. If I do attract attention, it's generally because I did something really stupid.
Feats: I dunno, Skill Focus? Maybe Able Learner or Jack of All Trades, were I feeling optimistic.

…I'm such a wizard. Yay for 7-point buy.

[Telonius]

There are a bunch of people out there with with 20+ str, or at least can get above 20 with rage.

But how many of them are effectively using a potion of Bull's Strength? :smallbiggrin:

Anyway, my personal stats would probably be something like ...

Str - 10 or 11
Dex - 8
Con - ... hard to tell. Probably around 10.
Int - 18. (Yes, really, it is. 99th percentile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAT#Raw_scores.2C_scaled_scores.2C_and_percentiles ) will do that. Personally I wouldn't mind swapping out a couple points in favor of Wisdom or Charisma, but that's just not how I rolled 'em.)
Wis - 12
Cha - 12

If I go with Str as 10, that makes me a legal 28 point buy.

RL Class: Expert 1 or 2.

If I were in D&D fantasyland... Archivist2.

[Asheram]

Oh dear... this is a tough one..

STR 13 (I see myself as quite strong, but not that much)
DEX 11 (Standard dexterity. You'll never see me on a skateboard though)
CON 7 (I easily get ill, and quite allergic)
INT 14 (I'm quite smart, not a genious by far, though.)
WIS 16 (I pride myself in being quite observant and able to think outside the box... balanced by my flaws)
CHA 12 (Fairly good with people)

FLAWS

Too lazy to study (-4 on willsaves to perform repetetive tasks such as studies or exercise)
Charmingly oblivious (-2 to sense motive +4 to bluff and diplomacy)

[Glass Mouse]

Generally, my group says that 10 is average for a commoner, while 12 is average for an adventure. I'll go with that (being of pure NPC classes).

Nina Anima
Writer 1 / Student 1
Lawful Good(ish)

ABILITIES
Str: 9 (stronger than many other girls I know, but hopeless compared to guys)
Dex: 12 (Well... Not a yoga-person or anything, but I do catch the falling glass on occassion)
Con: 7 (Easily cold, easily sick, low pain tolerance... I'm pretty pathetic, really)
Int: 17 (I learn quickly, I analyze by instinct, I'm always (one of) the best in my classes)
Wis: 9 (I rarely notice anything around me; I'd point out the hazardous wire before I saw the fire surrounding it)
Cha: 10 (I look okay, and people percieve me as nice, but I have a hard time talking to people, and I rarely make friends)

SKILLS:
Craft (novels and short stories): +6
Craft (comics): +4
Gather Information: +2
Knowledge (social science): +5
Knowledge (grammar): +5
Knowledge (RPGs): +4
Knowledge (useless trivia): +4
Profession (student): +7
Diplomacy: +2
Perform (theatre): +1
Bluff: -4
Listen: -2
Sense Motive: -6

Flaws could be fun, but I have written more than enough already. Oops.

[pyrefiend]

Int - 18. (Yes, really, it is. 99th percentile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAT#Raw_scores.2C_scaled_scores.2C_and_percentiles ) will do that.

I'm in that top 1% with you, but I pegged myself at 14. I came back to this thread to knock that down to something more like 13. Though I suppose high SAT scores do count for something, it takes a lot more than that to have an 18. 18 is the very peak of human achievement. If you honestly believe that no human ever, past or present, could be much smarter than you, that's an eighteen.

D&D and real life don't follow strict statistics to calculate how many people in a given population will have what scores. That doesn't make sense, because one in 216 people do not represent the peak of human achievement in any area.

[Frozen_Feet]

But 18 isn't the peak of human achievement. *Any* level 1 chump can have that. Peak of (ordinary) human achievement would be 19 or some other number that can only be achieved with high initial value *and* serious training, mirrored in D&D by levels and skillpoints. John Doe with 18 INT is not all that notable, because he's level 1 commoner and knowledges are cross-class for him; Pete the Professor with 16 INT is, because he's level 4 expert with many times more skillpoints and all knowledges.

So, don't get too hung up on ability scores. They're just one factor. ~0.5% of human population might have the highest initial score, but how many of that 0.5% can pursue a life ideal for their characteristics? Not every guy with 18 STR becomes CL 5 martial artist, nor does every girl with 18 CHA become an actress.

[pyrefiend]

That's a good point about 19 being the real limit of human ability, after intense training. Still, I don't think you're putting enough weight on ability scores. If you start at the very peak of human achievement and work down, that's an accurate assessment of the various ability scores.

Let's say Einstein had an intelligence of 18, for example. Sure, he had lots of ranks in knowledge(physics), but no one as naturally intelligent as Einstein would be thought of as "not all that notable".

[hamishspence]

It also depends on if you are assuming E6, or if you are taking skills, abilities, etc to high levels, and waiving the hit point problem.

If 1st level is "apprentice" and 10th "master" and 20th "one of the greatest experts of all time" as per Cityscape, DMG2, etc. then it is possible, that the "cleverest person of their generation" may combine high levels with a high starting stat.

Int 18 might be a great prodigy, but the rare prodigy that spends their whole life on the subject and becomes one of the "big names" that goes down in history for generations to come, might be more like Int 21 or even higher- because they have lots of "class levels" so to speak :smallamused:

[Tinydwarfman]

I agree w/ the statements of some others. I am in the gifted program (high school) for people in the 99th percentile, I am certainly not int 18. I don't think I know anyone else who is either. (in school that is, I have met a few adults who I think would qualify) Anyway, took the test, and here I am (supposedly)

Chaotic Good Human Bard/Rogue (1st/1st Level)


Ability Scores:
Strength- 13
Dexterity- 14
Constitution- 13
Intelligence- 14
Wisdom- 13
Charisma- 13

Weird stats... :smallconfused:

[Emmerask]

Int - 18. (Yes, really, it is. 99th percentile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAT#Raw_scores.2C_scaled_scores.2C_and_percentiles ))

I don´t think SAT´s have that much to do with actual intelligence.
For example learning especially for those tests can raise your score hundreds of points does that mean by learning for those tests you increased your intelligence? Not really.

So for my pc:

unaligned Human student 1

str: 15
dex: 9 (can´t really dance or perform acrobatics or any of that stuff)
con: 14 (last time I was sick was 2 years ago for 3 days ^^)
int: 15 (well I have my university-entrance diploma and I am currently studying business computer science that should count for something I guess)
wis: 10 (I really do not know about that one I guess not that much)
cha: 16 (Yep :smallcool:)

[Kurald Galain]

I score in the top 5% of IQ tests, enough to enter mensa
Ironically, MENSA has criteria quite a bit stricter than that :smalltongue:

[Lunix Vandal]

Since I went on a Fallout 2 kick last weekend ...

Thrawn_HCN
Age 22
Male

St 6 (Good) - I don't personally consider myself to be particularly strong, but I can deadlift most people I know and I've been told (by an ex-Marine, no less) that my punches have a fairly high amount of power behind them.
Pe 4 (Fair) - Bad eyesight is the bane of my existence. I also tend to miss important details if I'm not actively listening to someone.
En 6 (Good) - I'm rarely sick and I have a high tolerance for low temperatures, but I shy away from extended exercise.
Ch 6 (Good) - Well at least they seem to like having me around.
In 8 (Great) - 34 on the ACT plus a boatload of A's in school? Gimme.
Ag 6 (Good) - I'm not really that fast (hence Bruiser), but I do have decent manual dexterity. I think.
Lk 6 (Good) - An example popped up just today, even. "Student Financial Services error in your favor. Collect $900."

Trait: Good Natured, Bruiser
6 AP, 6 AC, 6% Crit. Mwahahaha.

Tagged Skills:
Small Guns (39%) - I don't have terribly much experience with weaponry (melee or ranged), but I'm a decent shot with a shotgun and bow & arrow. Maybe a 45% from the instruction I've received with said weapons.
Science (52%) - Mostly mathematics, with a good smattering of chemistry, physics, and computer science. Oh, and a Big Book O' Science or two to raise it to 65%.
Speech (65%) - A lovely combination of theatrical skill and rigorous logic. I love it so. :smalltongue:

Notable Untagged:
Unarmed (44%) - Plus enough training from someone who does have it tagged to raise it to 55% for Strong Punch.
Melee Weapons (34%) - Less time training, but still half-decent. Call it 40%.
First Aid (39%) - And we throw in some skill manuals to raise it to 50%. (Hello, my name is Thrawn_HCN. I'm trained in first aid and CPR. Do you require assistance? YOU! CALL 911! YOU! GET AN A.E.D.!) :smalltongue:

Leveling this sucker up enough for one or more Perks would probably mean Swift Learner, Comprehension, Educated, Gain Intelligence, Bonus HtH Attacks, and a level of Action Boy or two. Probably in that order, too. Skill gains would lean heavily on Science and Speech, less so on the others mentioned above.

[OverdrivePrime]

Here's my character sheet, Shadowrun 4 style. (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=181293)

In my 16 year career I've built up a pretty healthy karma pool. Now we just have to wait for Ryumyo to show up and maybe I can put all this training to good use. :smallcool:

edit: Since everyone else gave a d20 version of themselves, here's the D20 Modern version of me. (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=41852)

[Ashiel]

I may have to take some liberties here, but let's see what I can do...

3rd Level NG Human Commoner
Hp: 10, AC: 12, Touch: 12, Fort: +2, Ref: +3, Will: +2, Initiative: +2
Str: 12, Dex: 15, Con: 13, Int: 15, Wis: 13, Cha: 12,
Flaws: Inattentive (-4 listen/spot), Spectator* (-4 climb/jump)
Feats/Abilities: Able-learner (human racial), Bonus Feat: Two Weapon Fighting, Two Weapon Defense, Improved Unarmed Strike, Open Minded, Archaic Weapon Proficiency
Skills (15+5 points): Knowledge (General Knowledge) 1: +3, Knowledge (Gaming) 3: +5, Knowledge (Computer Programming) 1: +3, Knowledge (Religion) 1: +3, Knowledge (Arcana) 1: +3, Craft (Drawing) 2: +4, Craft (Writing) 2: +4, Swim 1: +2, Craft (Blacksmith) 1: +3, Craft (Weapons) 1: +3, Preform (Dance) 1: +2, Computer Use 2: +4, Bluff 1: +2, Diplomacy 1: +2, Sense Motive 1: +1

Notes: This is a combination of D&D and d20 Modern where skills and similar bits didn't crunch perfectly. Mental ability scores are above average, which I believe is a conditioning effect - many of us today probably have an elite array in ability scores.

Spectator is a custom flaw to represent my inability at most athletic endeavors. Archaic weapon proficiency includes swords, maces, staves, most simplistic weaponry, and bow-class weapons, which I'm comfortable wielding (I'm not much with guns however).

Skill ranks were spent assuming that all skills could be purchased on a 1:1 ratio, since modern education (even self education) is much easier in almost every field imaginable.

I was trying to get some more skill points, but statting myself up was pretty tricky. With the exception of gaming in general and computers I'm not exceptionally focused, and nothing is to the level of a true professional, and mostly a rank or two here or there depending on how much I felt I applied myself to something plus modifiers as normal.

One could assume that due to owning a computer with an internet connection also grants a +2 equipment bonus to virtually any subject, but this isn't included in the statistics.

One might question the fact I statted myself as 3rd level. I can take a hit, but being a commoner with average hit points I'm very vulnerable to sudden death from anything major (like getting hit by a car, or falling from 20ft or so), and could be killed outright with a solid weapon or gunshot + bleeding out (not assuming critical hits).

I'll let others decide if they feel it's a fair representation.

[BigBadBugbear]

I got hit by a car once… it darn hurts but I could walk away….. I jumped up in the last moment…

[Ashiel]

I got hit by a car once… it darn hurts but I could walk away….. I jumped up in the last moment…

Maybe it rolled low on damage? :smallbiggrin:

I figure if a direct hit by a car deals maybe, 3d6 (average 10.5) with a reflex save for half, that's enough to devastate a commoner without guaranteed death. Especially if most of us have a few levels by adulthood. :smallsmile:

Of course, if we wanted to get technical we could figure a formula akin to falling damage based on the speed of the vehicle, but we're just tossin' around some numbers at the moment. :smallsmile:

[rezplz]

Lessee...

Human
Male
20 years old
level 1 expert

STR: 12 (I work out. Max bench is at 180 lbs and slowly climbing)
DEX: 11. I can be really fast, but not good at balance or careful movements.
CON: 14 (I pretty much never get sick and I can take a hit fairly well)
INT: 15 (I'm a fast learner, and I'm pretty high up in class rankings when I try)
WIS: 7-8 (My friends have said that I'm lacking in common sense, my teachers have said that I'm book-smart and not life-smart, and I agree. While I can occasionally give good advice for life, those moments are few and far between. I like to think of those as having just rolled a 20 on a WIS check. Also I'm really unobservant.)
CHA: 14 (I used to be awkward, but I've gotten over that and now I get along with pretty much everyone, and I enjoy parties)

Skill ranks:
climb: 2 ranks (eagle scout, had to do a bit of climbing)
Craft (woodworking): 2 ranks (again, eagle scout)
Heal: 4 ranks. (Or 1-2 ranks with a way to use INT instead of WIS. I'm on my way to becoming an EMT)
Jump: 3 ranks.
Knowledge (Mathematics): 4 ranks. (whoo college)
Knowledge (engineering): 1 rank (tried to be an engineer, wasn't my thing)
Move silently: 2 ranks. (I can be damn quiet when needed)
Perform (acting): 2 ranks. (I was in a play or two in high school, and I've been in the rocky horror picture show for a bit.)
Survival: 3 ranks (eeeeaaagle scooouut!)
Swim: 3 ranks
Use rope: 1 rank. (I forgot nearly all of my knots :( )

[absolmorph]

I agree w/ the statements of some others. I am in the gifted program (high school) for people in the 99th percentile, I am certainly not int 18. I don't think I know anyone else who is either. (in school that is, I have met a few adults who I think would qualify) Anyway, took the test, and here I am (supposedly)

Chaotic Good Human Bard/Rogue (1st/1st Level)


Ability Scores:
Strength- 13
Dexterity- 14
Constitution- 13
Intelligence- 14
Wisdom- 13
Charisma- 13

Weird stats... :smallconfused:
I don't think that's a good reflection. This is what I got:

Neutral Good Human Bard/Sorcerer (1st/1st Level)

Strength- 11
Dexterity- 11
Constitution- 11
Intelligence- 12
Wisdom- 11
Charisma- 11

This is far from accurate, not to mention hilariously bad.

[Soranar]

I wonder why so many people didn't put their flaws/traits?

alright here goes

race: human (northern american region)
alignment: Lawful (more and more with age) Neutral (more and more with age)
Class: Rogue (level 1)
Languages: French, English

Flaws: Meager Fortitude (many hitpoints and yet get sick easily),Poor Reflexes(goes with murky eyed), Murky-Eyed (corrective lenses are so useful)

Traits:
Abrasive(working on it),Absent Minded (tried everything but can't help it),
Brawler,Reckless,(I think I enjoyed fighting too much as a teenager),

Detached,Distinctive (everyone remembers me for some reason) ,Easygoing,

Relentless,Slow,Stout,Torpid (slow and steady wins the day)

skills with points , establishing the # of skillpoints each have would be difficult

Bluff
Diplomacy
Gather Information
Sense Motive

social skills earned through politics/dating/school and social survival

Concentration
Perform string instrument (violin)
Perform sing

when your parents believe in a complete education

Hide
Move Silently
Survival
Listen
Spot

my uncle has a thing for hunting and insisted I learn

Decipher Script (anthropology)
Knowledge history
Knowledge anthropology
Knowledge nature
Knowledge geography
Knowledge useless (DnD, geekery, etc)

and I probably forget a lot of it

feats

education,research,tutor,Negotiator,Master Manipulator

proficiencies

anachronistic armor proficiency (live DnD), simple anachronistic weapons proficiency (live Dnd), rifles (hunting), revolvers (backup weapon, hunting),

STATS
STR 17 I can run or walk with 80 pounds on me no problem, I've carried weights of over 200 pounds over long distances too (no way I could run with one though, definitely reduced speed too) and I can lift 300 pounds or so over my head but not for long.

still I feel this is more affected by carrying capacity , I'm not very tall and quite stout yet not fat (much like an overgrown dwarf) so it's easier for me to lift heavy things and carry them as my frame is proportionally stronger than a taller person

DEX 6 combine that with 17 STR/16 CON and you can see how easily stuff breaks around me without me noticing

CON 16 objects or people I enter contact with usually break without me noticing any serious damage (maybe I have DR?)

INT 16+ too many skillpoints, INT based society helps
WIS 16+ definitely more perceptive than most and it's been particularly useful in negotiations
CHA 13+ not that great but better than average, enough to get by with experience in social activities

talk about an unoptimized build, no heavy armor proficiency, no access to magical items to fix the DEX penalty, no magic world and the best weapons are DEX based (guns)

can't even fly or teleport

no access to Martial and Exotic proficiencies either (submachine guns, machine guns, grenades, etc)

not 1 combat oriented feat

and 1 of the most useful Stat (Arguably Charisma) is my 2nd lowest which forces me to waste skillpoints on social skills

note to self, if you encounter a soldier/policeman/guy with a gun, be polite

especially since all guns make bleeding wounds and the heal skill is only useful with a medkit handy

[Vaynor]

Probably something like this:

Strength: 7 (I am pretty damn weak, but not a complete wuss, so below average but not absolutely terrible)
Dexterity: 12 (I have pretty good reflexes, can maneuver well in a crowd, react fast, etc.)
Constitution: 10 (I tend to get sick often, but not stay sick that long, so, average)
Intelligence: 14 (I consider myself fairly intelligent, nowhere near genius or anything though)
Wisdom: 12 (again, just above average, I'm not terribly observant but I like to think I'm pretty mature for my age, and am quite philosophical)
Charisma: 8 (not attractive and a social ape, pretty much sums it up)

[Telonius]

That's a good point about 19 being the real limit of human ability, after intense training. Still, I don't think you're putting enough weight on ability scores. If you start at the very peak of human achievement and work down, that's an accurate assessment of the various ability scores.

Let's say Einstein had an intelligence of 18, for example. Sure, he had lots of ranks in knowledge(physics), but no one as naturally intelligent as Einstein would be thought of as "not all that notable".

I think part of the confusion is that there's a difference between achievement and capacity. Intelligence is a measurement of capacity. Einstein took that capacity and used almost all of it to solve an extremely complicated question. There are many people with as much capacity (as much intelligence) as Einstein. Almost none of them work on problems as intense, and with such global repercussions, as he did. Almost none of them have as much success as he did. (Newton and Oppenheimer come to mind).

To compare it another way, think of the Sherlock Holmes stories. Can you think of anyone smarter than Sherlock? Sherlock can: his brother Mycroft. He's Sherlock's intellectual superior, but he never actually goes out to do any detective work. Sherlock will be remembered as the greatest detective in the world, but Mycroft will not.

[lisiecki]

Don't let your IQ scores give you the impression that you can get into mensa.
If I had a time machine, well, let's just say I'd be $40 dollars richer and a lot wiser about trusting IQ tests.

hows that?

An IQ tests costs a few hundred dollars at least, and takes 14 hours or so.
was the $40 the money you spent on gas?

[Frozen_Feet]

It's also good to remember that people with an 18 in some score or another don't exist in a void to be worshipped by those with straight tens. For each person with 18 there are a few with 17, a handful with 16 and a bunch with 15 or 14, who *won't* see the the guy with 18 all that special. Like someone said in "Int- show me the evidence" thread, mode and median are different things. Average of humankind might be ten, but most people have *something* other than ten as their score.

Combine this with what Telonius above said, and the fact that different classes have disparate power. Level 5 commoner isn't nearly as impressive, even with higher ability scores, than level 5 fighter or maybe even a warrior. This is why I said that John Doe the Commoner isn't notable - his position simply doesn't give him a chance to shine. At level 5, he might be the village sage or something, but if he was expert 5 he'd be a scholar with worldwide renown even with a lower score.

Just so there isn't any confusion, here's how I view the levels: 1 to 5 go from newbie chump to highly regarded expert; these are the levels most people have. 6 to 10 appear once in a blue moon and have near-transcendent mastery of their field; they alter the course of history and spark legends. In real life, Alexander the Great or Ceaser might have fallen in this range. Level 10, however, is where real life stops: levels 11 to 15 is the domain of myths, superheroes and whatnot. If, by levels 16 to 20, people aren't viewing you as a god, they pretty darn well should. Epic just makes it official.

[satorian]

I think e6 might be the better metric for real life than the normal character progression. Real people do garner quite a few skills and abilities over their lifetimes. There are martial arts masters who have more feats than a fighter could ever get in 20 levels, though certainly not as many hit points. Da Vinci could easily (not by taking 20 or with books) have made a DC 30 knowledge check in several knowledges, as well as craft and expression. By all accounts, he was liked and respected at court, so diplomacy. He was observant so we can assume a few ranks in spot. Calling him a level 5 or even level 10 aristocrat or expert just wouldn't cover what he could do with skills and perhaps feats.

I find it strange that there's a sense from some posters that nobody here could possibly have an 18 in anything, while others don't have this issue. Do you regularly run triathlons? Now I don't, but I have several friends who do, and I guess they'd be 18 con. There's an organization called the Triple 9 Society, which is much, much more selective than Mensa (99.9 percentile). These people are probably higher than 18 int, just using standard deviation. You may not know them, but I do. It's not all that rare to meet exceptional people.

[Emmerask]

I find it strange that there's a sense from some posters that nobody here could possibly have an 18 in anything, while others don't have this issue. Do you regularly run triathlons? Now I don't, but I have several friends who do, and I guess they'd be 18 con. There's an organization called the Triple 9 Society, which is much, much more selective than Mensa (99.9 percentile). These people are probably higher than 18 int, just using standard deviation. You may not know them, but I do. It's not all that rare to meet exceptional people.

Well it is an issue of perspective for me 18 (in int) would be an Einstein, someone who brings a whole knew level of understanding the world arround us or for con someone who won the olympic marathon. While there is a small chance that someone like that is in this forum it is pretty unlikely and given the 18s that populate this thread it is borderline impossible using that perspecive that is :smallwink:

If on the other hand 18 in a stat does mean to you that you are in the upper 5 or 10% then yes it´s not even possible it is very likely :smallwink:

[Harperfan7]

hows that?

An IQ tests costs a few hundred dollars at least, and takes 14 hours or so.
was the $40 the money you spent on gas?

I took the Mensa entrance test ($40) because I got high results on IQ tests (and their freaking "take this before you take the real one" test told me I had a pretty good chance).

[lisiecki]

I took the Mensa entrance test ($40) because I got high results on IQ tests (and their freaking "take this before you take the real one" test told me I had a pretty good chance).

Ah, Fair enough.

You'll excuse me, every time this topic comes up, there are people who go on about the Online IQ tests they have taken.

Or people who talk about how they have taken multiple IQ tests (I still cant see the point of taking multiple IQ tests if you do well, as in my experience there typically used to give benefits to the disabled)

I was afraid you were going to tell me you had taken a $40 online IQ test, Im glad to see i was wrong

[OverdrivePrime]

So, here's something. I think we all agree that Stengjt is the most easily-quantifiable of the ability score. It is also said that the Dead Lift is the most accurate measurement of pure strenght. The current world record holder for raw (unaided, no equipment) deadlift is Konstantin Konstantinovos, with a lift of 948 pounds. That puts Mr. Konstantinovos at a D20 strength of 22.

So, let's assume that when his parents created his character, they rolled an 18 for strength (and judging by his training videos, probably a 16+ for constitution). Now, with no doping (necromantic enhancement), Konstantin is either level 16+, or he has found another means to permanently increase his strength. No offense to the man, but I sincerely doubt he's higher than level 7. So what about his intense training and the specialized equipment he uses to develop himself? Couldn't this be the modern, real world equivalent of a magic manual or wish spell?

I don't see why the other attributes can't benefit from this specialized training technology as well.

[hamishspence]

Now, with no doping (necromantic enhancement), Konstantin is either level 16+, or he has found another means to permanently increase his strength. No offense to the man, but I sincerely doubt he's higher than level 7.

Depends on the ruleset. He could be a 16th level Expert, given that books like Cityscape seem to have 10th level be pretty run-of-the-mill.

An "ordinary master craftsman" (not the greatest craftsman of all time, just someone who has "achieved mastery" will be Level 10+.

Isn't it possible that a "world champion" in a field, will be at least that high or higher?

[OverdrivePrime]

Depends on the ruleset. He could be a 16th level Expert, given that books like Cityscape seem to have 10th level be pretty run-of-the-mill.

An "ordinary master craftsman" (not the greatest craftsman of all time, just someone who has "achieved mastery" will be Level 10+.

Isn't it possible that a "world champion" in a field, will be at least that high or higher?

Certainly, it is possible that he's a 16th level commoner or expert. He'll be 32 this year, so it's possible that he's built up the necessary exp in his powerlifting adventures. However, in the "people over level 10 are once in a lifetime" world that others seem to think we live in, properly applied technology seems to be an appropriate way to reach very high stats.

[Telonius]

Perhaps he's a half-orc? :smallbiggrin:

iirc, 18 Strength was balanced to have a max load of right at, or just over, the World Record at the time the rules were written. The records have been broken several times since then.

[snoopy13a]

So, don't get too hung up on ability scores. They're just one factor. ~0.5% of human population might have the highest initial score, but how many of that 0.5% can pursue a life ideal for their characteristics? Not every guy with 18 STR becomes CL 5 martial artist, nor does every girl with 18 CHA become an actress.

If you go by a score of 18 is the 99.5 or so percentile then she may not even get the lead for her high school play.

[Ormagoden]

Nick
Human Game Tester 5/ Toy tester 1/ Toy designer 1
Size/Type: Medium
Hit Dice: 5d8+1d6+1d4 (25 hp)
Initiative: –2
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares; can’t run)
Armor Class: 9 (–2 Dex, +1 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 9
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+3
Attack: Slam+4 melee (1d6-1)
Full Attack: Slam+4 melee, (1d6-1) or Tire iron +5 melee (1d8-1)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft
Special Attacks: Human traits
Special Qualities: Aura of Menace, Quickness
Saves: Fort +3, Ref +1, Will +6
Abilities: Str 9, Dex 8, Con 6, Int 12, Wis 18, Cha 14
Skills: Design +8, Drive +10 ,Gaming +13,Knowledge: Dnd +6, Knowledge: Videogames +13, Preform: storytelling +10,
Preform: dance -45, Sleight of hand 8
Feats: Weapon focus: Tire iron, Skill focus: Knowledge: Video games, Skill focus: Drive, Skill focus: Gaming, Eat anything
Flaws: Psoriatic arthritis (Disease)
Environment: Cubicle or Highway
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 3
Treasure: 1d8 20 Dollar Bills, Silver ring (5 DB), Standard goods
Alignment: Chaotic neutral
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +1

Aura of Menace (Su): A righteous aura surrounds Nick when he fights or gets angry. Any hostile creature within a 20-foot radius of Nick must succeed on a Will save to resist its effects. The save DC varies with Nick's mood, and is Charisma-based. Those who fail take a –2 penalty on attacks, AC, and saves for 24 hours or until they successfully hit Nick. A creature that has resisted or broken the effect cannot be affected again by Nick’s aura for 24 hours.

Quickness (Su): Although not particularly dexterous, a Nick is supernaturally quick. He can take an extra standard action or move action 1/day.

Psoriatic arthritis (Disease): Has damaged Nick's physical stats. The adjustment is already included above.

[faceroll]

Well it is an issue of perspective for me 18 (in int) would be an Einstein, someone who brings a whole knew level of understanding the world arround us or for con someone who won the olympic marathon. While there is a small chance that someone like that is in this forum it is pretty unlikely and given the 18s that populate this thread it is borderline impossible using that perspecive that is :smallwink:

If on the other hand 18 in a stat does mean to you that you are in the upper 5 or 10% then yes it´s not even possible it is very likely :smallwink:

0.4% of commoners have an 18 in some stat. That's an absolute value of a lot. 600 commoners in the world have an 18 in 2 stats.

[Milskidasith]

0.4% of commoners have an 18 in some stat. That's an absolute value of a lot. 600 commoners in the world have an 18 in 2 stats.

What? It's far more than 600 with an 18 in two stats... at one in 216 (three sixes), getting two would be a grand total of 216^2, which is only 1296+2160+43200

66,656 (wow, lots of sixes). With 6 billion people, that's a bit under 10,000 people with two 18s. Three 18s would be one in 216 of them, or a bit under 50.

[snoopy13a]

What? It's far more than 600 with an 18 in two stats... at one in 216 (three sixes), getting two would be a grand total of 216^2, which is only 1296+2160+43200

66,656 (wow, lots of sixes). With 6 billion people, that's a bit under 10,000 people with two 18s. Three 18s would be one in 216 of them, or a bit under 50.

Nah, that would be calculating getting 18s in two specified attributes. For example, 1 out of 46,656 people would have a 18 Strength and 18 Intelligence.

The calculations of two 18s out of 6 attributes is different. If I remembered 9th grade math better I could calculate it for you.

[Milskidasith]

Nah, that would be calculating getting 18s in two specified attributes. For example, 1 out of 46,656 people would have a 18 Strength and 18 Intelligence.

That's true, that's two specified attributes.


The calculations of two 18s out of 6 attributes is different. If I remembered 9th grade math better I could calculate it for you.

Getting two 18s total out of six attributes is a much higher chance than two 18s in two specific attributes, so his math was definitely still wrong.

[Ormagoden]

*COUGH*

Ahem

[/derail]

[lisiecki]

There's an organization called the Triple 9 Society, which is much, much more selective than Mensa (99.9 percentile). These people are probably higher than 18 int, just using standard deviation. You may not know them, but I do. It's not all that rare to meet exceptional people.

and yet, Ironically the 999 demand an IQ of 132+

So if the AVERAGE member of that society has an INT of 13
Imagine what some one with INT 18 must be like

[Emmerask]

0.4% of commoners have an 18 in some stat. That's an absolute value of a lot. 600 commoners in the world have an 18 in 2 stats.

My main problem with this would be how you stat a real genius then?
if 18 is a not so rare a stat in that case what do your Newtons and Einsteins get?

Anyway my post was just in response to the "why have some forumers issues with the 18s in stats" and my answer still seems valid on that one because taking the first perspective (18 == genious) and someone really thinks he is a genius like Einstein, while there is a really really small chance, the chance of grossly overestimating their abilties is much higher :smallwink:

[paladinthief]

Thomas NG
Expert 2/Fighter 1 (One level of expert selling books, One as a teacher, and my Fighter level comes from studying martial arts in middle and high school, and my Greek war reenactment stuff)

Str 14 (I'm the first guy that people at work find when they're moving stuff)
Dex 12 (Agile, but not the best)
Con 15 (I once played a game of football with a broken hand in high school)
Int 13 (More memory than anything, but I'm not a dumb barbarian)
Wis 11 (More than one stupid mistake I have made mmh?)
Cha 12 (-2 when dealing with females, maybe -4)

Skills
Bluff 1 (Lying to parents is a beautiful thing)
Concentration 2 (Martial Arts as a kid)
Diplomacy 3 (I worked retail for years)
Handle Animal 2 (I've had cats since I was a kid)
Heal 3 (Worked at summer camps too)
Intimidate 2 (It's my size bonus that makes this an awesome skill)
Knowledge (Books) 4 (Retail work was in a bookstore)
Knowledge (Comics) 4 (Read 'em since I was 9)
Knowledge (Gaming) 4 (Been playing since I was 10)
Knowledge (History) 6 (I majored in it and I'm a history teacher)
Knowledge (Movies) 3 (I'm a fan but not an expert)
Knowledge (Video Games) 2 (Again no expert)
Listen 2 (it's my only decent sense)
Perform (Acting) 2 (Haven't done any since highschool but I wasn't half bad)
Perform (Oratory) 6 (I lecture for a living and I did debate in highschool)
Profession (Teacher) 3 (I haven't been at it very long)
Survival 2 (Boy scouts as a kid)
Swim 2 (Enough to pass te lifeguard test for my summer camp job)

Feats
Improved Unarmed Strike (I earned my black belt at 16)
Weapon Focus (Short sword) (I did some Greek war reenacting for a while)

[Harperfan7]

I see Einstein as a 23-24, so if I think I have a 17, it doesn't seem so arrogant. If Einstein was an 18, I would be 14 tops.

If you see 18 as the pinnacle of human ability, then yes, pretty much anybody on here claiming an 18 is going to seem like pure horse ****e (and for good reason).

In D&D, Intelligence is just learning and reasoning ability, it's not skill (it helps you get skills and makes you better at some, but its not skill, being a rogue is skill), its not common sense, its not perception, its just pure analytical power. So, I think IQ is a decent way of measuring it.

Now, the people who say Int = IQ divided by 10 are thinking in 2nd edition terms, where 18 was the highest a human could have, period (without wish tomes or whatever). In 3rd edition, 19 for a human isn't all that great. It's certainly not Einstein level. So, I say 1 point of Int per 10 IQ up to 10 Int, then 5 points of IQ per point of Int (making a 180 IQ = 26 Int).

This means that the pinnacle humans of real life would have like 32-34, about the maximum for a 20th level D&D human.

[Soranar]

as for the earlier post about strenght

base STR 18

rage

str=22

problem solved

[Harperfan7]

as for the earlier post about strenght

base STR 18

rage

str=22

problem solved

I was going to say something about how Hulk Hogan had 22 str, then I realized, if anybody is a barbarian, its Hulk.

[lisiecki]

Int 13 (More memory than anything, but I'm not a dumb barbarian)


Int, as has been pointed out many times in this thread measures raw data crunching of the brain.


Wis 11 (More than one stupid mistake I have made mmh?)


If you've made so many mistakes, why is your wisdom above average?


Cha 12 (-2 when dealing with females, maybe -4)


So when dealing with women, you have a charisma of 4?
are you referring to the score its self as -4 (8) or a -4 modifier to the roll?

Also, wouldn't this be a low over all charisma, with a feat to deal better with men

[snoopy13a]

and yet, Ironically the 999 demand an IQ of 132+

So if the AVERAGE member of that society has an INT of 13
Imagine what some one with INT 18 must be like

It depends on how you measure Int 18.

If you go by IQ/10 then yes, that would right. If you go by the percentile of a 3d6 roll then 132 IQ would be an Int of 18. Obviously, that makes a huge difference when figuring out ones stats.

[ClockShock]

Ok, so according to these posts, the average GitP forum dweller has stats of:

Str: 10.6
Dex: 11.1
Con: 11.6
Int: 14.4
Wis: 12.0
Cha: 11.8

[Tinydwarfman]

Ok, so according to these posts, the average GitP forum dweller has stats of:

Str: 10.6
Dex: 11.1
Con: 11.6
Int: 14.4
Wis: 12.0
Cha: 11.8

Wow, that is very close to what I imagine myself to be...

[lisiecki]

It depends on how you measure Int 18.

If you go by IQ/10 then yes, that would right. If you go by the percentile of a 3d6 roll then 132 IQ would be an Int of 18. Obviously, that makes a huge difference when figuring out ones stats.

Marg...

over the last 18 months of these posts, I've stopped trying to point out that IQ/10 just dose not, in any sense, properly represent how IQ scores are measured. The MULTIPLE people who state they have IQ's of over 200 are the cause of this... (And many of those, who got there IQ tests off the internet.((and ONE of those who got it off the internet, and then adjusted it to what he felt was a more accurate score)) )

So I just go with the IQ/10 theory, it causes me physical pain, but I find that a combination of drinking and smashing my head in to a wall allow me to flow with it.


Strength- 11
Dexterity- 11
Constitution- 11
Intelligence- 12
Wisdom- 11
Charisma- 11

Check the simmiler thread from around last thanksgiving, (14 months ago). I posted a spread sheet, the AVERAGE INT was 17, the average Charisma was over 15


Wow, that is very close to what I imagine myself to be...

You're not playing the game right, you NEED to have two attributes above 15, 3 lower, and then one at a 11 or 12. The Stat at 11 or 12 is to show that your not bragging.

[snoopy13a]

Marg...

over the last 18 months of these posts, I've stopped trying to point out that IQ/10 just dose not, in any sense, properly represent how IQ scores are measured. The MULTIPLE people who state they have IQ's of over 200 are the cause of this... (And many of those, who got there IQ tests off the internet.((and ONE of those who got it off the internet, and then adjusted it to what he felt was a more accurate score)) )

So I just go with the IQ/10 theory, it causes me physical pain, but I find that a combination of drinking and smashing my head in to a wall allow me to flow with it.



Check the simmiler thread from around last thanksgiving, (14 months ago). I posted a spread sheet, the AVERAGE INT was 17, the average Charisma was over 15



You're not playing the game right, you NEED to have two attributes above 15, 3 lower, and then one at a 11 or 12. The Stat at 11 or 12 is to show that your not bragging.

Eh, I don't really take these things seriously (take a look at my response earlier).

[lisiecki]

Eh, I don't really take these things seriously (take a look at my response earlier).

Your a better GITPer than I my friend.
They broke me the last time this thread came up the question was "What would your stats be as a 1st level character" and one of the responses was "I would be a 4th level wood elf"

That's when they broke me, since then, I haven't been able to feel happy...

[satorian]

Triple 9 requires a 149 for entry. Also, I just picked them at random. There are more "elite" groups out there.

[Frozen_Feet]

It depends on how you measure Int 18.

If you go by IQ/10 then yes, that would right. If you go by the percentile of a 3d6 roll then 132 IQ would be an Int of 18. Obviously, that makes a huge difference when figuring out ones stats.

As I stated in other relevant thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139819&page=3), the most common conversion I've seen is 1 point of INT = 5 points of IQ, when 10 INT = 100 IQ. This would put INT 18 at 140 IQ, which, while impressive, is not really 'OMG supah genius' - not without proper education and a life geared to make most out of it.

So, how would I stat Einstein? Well, obviously he has a high INT, 18 or 19. More significant, however, are his 5 levels of Expert and max ranks in Knowledge (Mathematics) and Knowledge (Physics), or some such.

Even at level 1, max ranks in a class skill amount to +4. Max ranks at level 5 amount to +8. At level 1, a person with dedicated training equals one with high initial abilities - surpasses, in case of knowledges and similar skills, because without training one can only accomplish easy tasks.

For a lvl 5 commoner with 18 INT to be equal to lvl 5 expert with average INT and max ranks in a knowledge, he has to buy 4 ranks in a cross-class skill, spending eight skill points. Amusingly, the expert has *also* spent eight skill points, he just got 8 ranks with his. Even more amusingly, the commoner and the expert actually have the same total of skill points. The commoner has 4*(2+4) + 4*(4+2) points, while the expert has 4*6 + 4*6. If this doesn't hammer home how much class and and training matter in D&D, systems nothing will. I also have a feeling this makes a point about the real world somehow...

[lisiecki]

As I stated in other relevant thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139819&page=3), the most common conversion I've seen is 1 point of INT = 5 points of IQ, when 10 INT = 100 IQ.

Yes, Yes you did state that.

However, I dismissed that as the most common conversion, as in these "Stat your self" threads, everyone but you seems to use the INT/10 method

[lisiecki]

Triple 9 requires a 149 for entry. Also, I just picked them at random. There are more "elite" groups out there.

and yet, Ironically the 999 demand an IQ of 132+ 150

So if the AVERAGE member of that society has an INT of
13 150
Imagine what some one with INT 18 must be like

Completely changes my argument.

Although I'm happy to see that 149 isn't higher than 132

[lisiecki]

Triple 9 requires a 149 for entry. Also, I just picked them at random. There are more "elite" groups out there.

and yet, Ironically the 999 demand an IQ of 132+ 149

So if the AVERAGE member of that society has an INT of 132 149
Imagine what some one with INT 18 must be like

Completely changes my argument.

Although I'm happy to see that 149 isn't higher than 132

[satorian]

I guess I'm just not following your argument.

Either
a) 15 int is 150IQ, being .1% of the population with 10IQ=1int, and an 18 int is just very rare, being let's say .001, so 1 in a hundred thousand. This is rare, course, but there would still be 70,000-80,000 of these folks in the real world. We don't have to imagine them. We can read some of their books, and even meet them. And, actually, a 180 IQ is about that rare. This is, in fact, a good argument for 10IQ=1int.

or

b) Using the probability of an initial die roll hitting 18, a 150 IQ would fall neatly in the 18 int range, with 180 IQ people being those exceeding rare people to be templated (thinker) or early class leveled to break the 20 barrier.

[Frozen_Feet]

Yes, Yes you did state that.

However, I dismissed that as the most common conversion, as in these "Stat your self" threads, everyone but you seems to use the INT/10 method

Remember the important "I've seen" part. Includes a whopping lot more material than this or the other thread. Though I might have to withdraw my statement if people keep on using INT/10 standard. Where does it come from anyway? Someone said 2nd edition AD&D, but I haven't read those books so I wouldn't now. Still, we're mostly working with D&D 3.X, is there a book that states the conversion to be either way?

I'm not claiming I'm right, period. I'm just telling where I'm coming from, and what I see as a more sensible way of interpreting ability scores. A more complex, logarithmic way of interpreting intelligence might be better than either.

[lisiecki]

part. Includes a whopping lot more material than this or the other thread. Though I might have to withdraw my statement if people keep on using INT/10 standard.

True, it most likely dosen't. its just these threads have made me bitter, bitter and old...



Where does it come from anyway? Someone said 2nd edition AD&D, but I haven't read those books so I wouldn't now. Still, we're mostly working with D&D 3.X, is there a book that states the conversion to be either way?

That is a VERY good question. AD&D doesn't give this as a reason.
Players choice states that INT is a reflection of formal learning a character has gotten.

Then again in AD&D every Level was a formal rank, that one had to qualify for. It didn't matter if you had the XP to be a 12th level wizard, if all the higher ranked wizards refused to train you

I can only assume that these people were playing BD&D, and well, in that case I'm sure there all brilliant.

[OverdrivePrime]

True, it most likely dosen't. its just these threads have made me bitter, bitter and old...
Lisiecki, you're taking these silly self-statter threads too seriously again. Throttle back, man, throttle back. It's supposed to be entertainment! :smallsmile:

[lisiecki]

Lisiecki, you're taking these silly self-statter threads too seriously again. Throttle back, man, throttle back. It's supposed to be entertainment! :smallsmile:

It was once...
Then people became convinced that IQ tests could measure an IQ over 200...
and that INT/10 made any damn sense what so ever...
or that takeing an online IQ test, and then altering the resluts so that you liked them better made any sence what so ever...

Then the ability to feel happy... left.

now all I can do is look down at my infant daughter and ask my self
"How can I make sure that she never says anything this reconculous"

oops, gota run, the pot of water just hit boiling

[SurlySeraph]

There there, lisiecki.
http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/9735/1256724560070.jpg

Did that help?

[Egiam]

Hmm:

LN Human level 2

STR: 8 (Not a buff guy, probably by greatest weakness)
DEX: 13 (Talented at Archery, Paintball, Airsoft, Guitar, Dancing)
CON: 11 (Moderately tough. I can take some physical abuse, but I do suffer from asthma and allergies)
INT: 11 (I'm not a particulally intelligent person, just determined)
WIS: 14 (My greatest strength is my diligence/patience. If I am not good at something, I do not give up, I practice harder. I won't let my friends go easy on me when trying a new game out. I want to be tested. This means that I do not have to be good at everything, for I can learn fast.
I also have very good hearing.
CHA: 13 (Acting, Performing, Dancing, and finally, Dungeon mastering, all require my ability to be patient, and theatrical)

[faceroll]

My main problem with this would be how you stat a real genius then?
if 18 is a not so rare a stat in that case what do your Newtons and Einsteins get?

Luck. The right sort of personality. The world's smartest man (highest IQ) works as a bouncer. The world's smartest woman is a columnist. Just because your int score is high doesn't mean you're going to do great things. It means you're more likely to succeed when you attempt great things. I have a friend who has always scored in the 99.99 percentile of any standardized test he's ever taken. He most definitely has an 18 intelligence. He's at the age where, historically, he should be working on his Magnum Opus. Instead, he plays WoW for 8 hours a day.

Feynman, who was totally awesome, had an IQ of around 125. Not at all "genius" level, but he still got a Nobel Prize and is regarded as one of the past centuries greatest scientists.

For every +1 to a skill check you get, that's the same as getting a +2 to your raw int score.

When Einstein rolled a nat 20 on some of his knowledge physics rolls, he would have had +2 from mw tools, +2 from aid another, +2 from standing on the shoulders of giants, +3 for skill focus, +5 for ranks, +2 from a flaw, +2 from another feat, and probably another +2 from yet another feat. That's a +20. If you ignored all those potential sources of where he's getting +skills, you'd have to conclude that Einstein had a 50 intelligence. With an 18 intelligence and a natural 20, that's a 44 on his knowledge check (or spellcraft or whatever) regarding the workings of light.

Also, those numbers are wrong.


Ok, so according to these posts, the average GitP forum dweller has stats of:

Str: 10.6
Dex: 11.1
Con: 11.6
Int: 14.4
Wis: 12.0
Cha: 11.8

I would imagine str & con to be much closer to around 6. How far can any forumites hike with a 30 lb pack on? Can you lift 100lbs over your head?

[OverdrivePrime]

I would imagine str & con to be much closer to around 6. How far can any forumites hike with a 30 lb pack on? Can you lift 100lbs over your head?

Hey, just because we're all geeks, don't assume we're all wimps! I'm a big, strong, outdoorsy guy, and there are plenty of forumites here who would probably scoff at my max lifts. Go talk to some of our smart powerhouses like Crow and Mr Mud, and I think you'll see that we're not all couch-bound weaklings. :smalltongue:

Give me a 50 pound pack and I'll give you 30+ miles a day.

[faceroll]

Hey, just because we're all geeks, don't assume we're all wimps! I'm a big, strong, outdoorsy guy, and there are plenty of forumites here who would probably scoff at my max lifts. Go talk to some of our smart powerhouses like Crow and Mr Mud, and I think you'll see that we're not all couch-bound weaklings. :smalltongue:

Give me a 50 pound pack and I'll give you 30+ miles a day.

I'm making my assumptions based on the average american. Most can't do more than a push-up or walk up a flight of stairs without losing their breath. I'm assuming forumites here are similarly distributed. The average is way lower than 10-11.

[OverdrivePrime]

I'm making my assumptions based on the average american. Most can't do more than a push-up or walk up a flight of stairs without losing their breath. I'm assuming forumites here are similarly distributed. The average is way lower than 10-11.

Hmmmm... after further review - and a look around at my coworkers - I'll allow it! I tend to be a little over-eager to try to stamp out any "wimpy D&D nerd" stereotypes I come across. :smallwink:

[lisiecki]

There there, lisiecki.

Did that help?

:D


Yes, yes it did actually

:D

[faceroll]

Hmmmm... after further review - and a look around at my coworkers - I'll allow it! I tend to be a little over-eager to try to stamp out any "wimpy D&D nerd" stereotypes I come across. :smallwink:

lol
I am a huge nerd, and also really fit and awesome, so I feel you.

[Tinydwarfman]

Luck. The right sort of personality. The world's smartest man (highest IQ) works as a bouncer. The world's smartest woman is a columnist. Just because your int score is high doesn't mean you're going to do great things. It means you're more likely to succeed when you attempt great things. I have a friend who has always scored in the 99.99 percentile of any standardized test he's ever taken. He most definitely has an 18 intelligence. He's at the age where, historically, he should be working on his Magnum Opus. Instead, he plays WoW for 8 hours a day.

Feynman, who was totally awesome, had an IQ of around 125. Not at all "genius" level, but he still got a Nobel Prize and is regarded as one of the past centuries greatest scientists.

For every +1 to a skill check you get, that's the same as getting a +2 to your raw int score.

When Einstein rolled a nat 20 on some of his knowledge physics rolls, he would have had +2 from mw tools, +2 from aid another, +2 from standing on the shoulders of giants, +3 for skill focus, +5 for ranks, +2 from a flaw, +2 from another feat, and probably another +2 from yet another feat. That's a +20. If you ignored all those potential sources of where he's getting +skills, you'd have to conclude that Einstein had a 50 intelligence. With an 18 intelligence and a natural 20, that's a 44 on his knowledge check (or spellcraft or whatever) regarding the workings of light.

Also, those numbers are wrong.



I would imagine str & con to be much closer to around 6. How far can any forumites hike with a 30 lb pack on? Can you lift 100lbs over your head?

1. Someone that smart stands out. Her articles would amazing and filled w/ incredible insight.

2. Einstein was a prodigy. He breaks the normal human limits. His starting stat was probably a 22 or something. Either that, or he must have rolled a lot of twenties, because he didn't have just one good idea.

3. Yes, I can quite easily do both. And hike w/ about 60 pounds.

[faceroll]

1. Someone that smart stands out. Her articles would amazing and filled w/ incredible insight.

You can read them for yourself. Here's the wikipedia page on her:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marilyn_vos_Savant


2. Einstein was a prodigy. He breaks the normal human limits. His starting stat was probably a 22 or something. Either that, or he must have rolled a lot of twenties, because he didn't have just one good idea.

Or he just took 20. Einstein may have had a 19 int.


3. Yes, I can quite easily do both. And hike w/ about 60 pounds.

Cool me too. Now, think of all the people you know. Can about 60 to 70% of them do the same?

[Tinydwarfman]

1. Indeed, I had forgotten about her. Your point though? She discusses complex theoretical mathematics and didn't pursue an education. She dropped out of university 2 years in and was studying philosophy. I am also quite skeptical about IQ tests in general, and view this as a prime example of why they are inaccurate.

2. So Einstein was the only person in the world who could take 20? I must be missing something in your argument.

3. Most of the people I know are teenagers, so I won't have a very good sample, but two of the d&d players that I know are a) a very strong quite high belt in karate, and b) a biggish hockey player. Now the two other kids are a) relatively short, weak, and not in great shape, and b) quite average except for maybe being slightly weaker than normal being quite thin. Out of 5 that is 3, so I just barely pass your assessment!

EDIT: Seriously though, wtf... why are we arguing over the ridiculously unrealistic system of D&D? I could see something more grounded in realism, but D&D is so far off the bat we will never get anywhere.:smalltongue:

[Drolyt]

I once took one of the tests that give stats, if I remember right they were something like:
Human Cleric 3 (level was apparantly based on age)
Str 15
Dex 14
Con 13
Int 19
Wis 18
Cha 14
If I was being honest with myself:
Human Expert 1
Strength: 13 hmm, this one is weird, if I just look at lift over head or lift off ground than 13 is correct, but it says 150 pounds as heavy load, I doubt I could carry that too terribly far. Also I don't think I'm that above average.
Dex: 10. Dex really needs sub-abilities for different situations, it ranges a lot but I think overall I am average.
Con: 10. I can take a lot of punishment and I have great muscular endurance, but not so much cardio endurance, so it averages out.
Int: This is hard to quantify. If int is IQ/10 then 16-17.
Wis: I have no idea. 8 probably, since I am inattentive, though I can sometimes be insightful. Maybe higher, but for some reason Wis modifies spot/listen.
Cha: 12. Would be higher, since I have some force of personality and people seem to naturally like me, but my people skills are horrible and I my looks are average.
Feats: Probably all skill focus: Knowledge, maybe one skill focus: concentration.
Skills: Probably all Knowledge skills, many of them in obscure and useless areas but also things like History, Computer Science, Physics, Engineering, and Mathematics.
Traits: I don't know what to call it, but I need glasses but while wearing glasses my eyesight is actually quite a bit above average.
Flaws: Inattentive, some flaw that gives a tremendous penalty to search checks.
Edit: Also I am most certainly not true neutral. I am chaotic good, and I show it. I give to the poor, do charity work, and oppose oppression. If that isn't chaotic good I don't know what is.

[Harperfan7]

1. Indeed, I had forgotten about her. Your point though? She discusses complex theoretical mathematics and didn't pursue an education. She dropped out of university 2 years in and was studying philosophy. I am also quite skeptical about IQ tests in general, and view this as a prime example of why they are inaccurate.


Somebody like Marilyn probably dropped out of college because she couldn't handle the stupid and Einstein did terrible in school.

If you were the guy who created the artificial heart, would you marry somebody who wasn't really freakin intelligent?

[Drolyt]

Somebody like Marilyn probably dropped out of college because she couldn't handle the stupid and Einstein did terrible in school.

If you were the guy who created the artificial heart, would you marry somebody who wasn't really freakin intelligent?

Einstein being terrible in school isn't entirely true. He wasn't recognized as a genius, but he wasn't terrible. He excelled in math and physics, but was horrible at English I mean language arts and had speech problems.

[Tinydwarfman]

Edit: Also I am most certainly not true neutral. I am chaotic good, and I show it. I give to the poor, do charity work, and oppose oppression. If that isn't chaotic good I don't know what is.

You definitely sound good, but chaotic is bit much. I don't think just 'opposing oppression' qualifies unless you are a serious activist. Do you place values in laws that differ from your ethical perspective? idk, but I think you really have to do something to be chaotic. It's like saying "I support the poor!" and then just giving a tiny amount. If you do, then that's fine.

[Laharal]

And just remember that the rebels/opposing force/2nd party that takes over will make their rules.. so who is chaotic and who is lawful? You have to look at the mountain from another angle Drolyt ;)

[Drolyt]

And just remember that the rebels/opposing force/2nd party that takes over will make their rules.. so who is chaotic and who is lawful? You have to look at the mountain from another angle Drolyt ;)

Well, I guess based on another discussion I had you two are probably right. I'm probably NG, though I definitely lean towards chaotic at least a little. I think NG is probably the most natural alignment for humans, its just so difficult. I'm not a saint, I've often had to choose between spending 60 bucks on a video game and spending it on starving children in africa, and I've chosen the video game often enough. I think most people if it didn't cost them anything, would always choose to help others. The opportunity cost just makes it difficult, especially when our culture tells you you have to be successful in a capitalist sense. However, even though it is difficult, I believe there are truly good aligned individuals in real life, and I'd like to think I am one of them. At least I am working on it.

[DarklingPerhaps]

When it comes to alignment I know I'm chaotic. It's a big part of who I am and how I see myself. But on the good/evil side of the axis I'm pretty sure I'm not good but I don't know between neutral or evil. I mean I can be selfish, thieving, malicious, angry, bitter, betraying, and murderous. But I also have a system of morals that I sometimes follow. I'm just not sure if I have these morals as some kind of fear built into me around jail and such or if it's an actual part of the way I think. Also even in the broad-stroked 'character sheets are vague ways to describe ourselves and don't need to be contested' way I tried to describe at the beginning I still feel I sit right on the fence between evil and neutral. Arg.

[lisiecki]

@Drolyt


Edit: Also I am most certainly not true neutral. I am chaotic good, and I show it. I give to the poor, do charity work, and oppose oppression. If that isn't chaotic good I don't know what is.

That says "Lawful Good" what part of that description, is, in any way chaotic, whatsoever even a little tiny bit?

@DarklingPerhaps

Wow, murderous huh?

How many people have you killed...
Well...
Ever?

[Xzeno]

I think about this a lot. I don't use numbers, but rather relative scores, like so:

Str: Above average and improving.
Dex: Subpar. My worst stat.
Con: Above average, more so than str. Also improving.
Int: Dunno. I guess average, maybe a bit above. Testing says I'm smarter than I am.
Wis: High. My best stat.
Cha: Subpar. I'm quite and boring, but I seem likable enough, given time.

Alignment is a little more interesting. I think I'm neutral good. Maybe lawful. However, I vastly prefer chaotic good society. I'm neutral good, but I'm on the side of chaos and good.



That says "Lawful Good" what part of that description, is, in any way chaotic, whatsoever even a little tiny bit?


Nah, totally chaotic good. Not a drop of law there. Alternately, debating the law-chaos axis is silly. Fun, but silly. That said, I think that sounds lawful as well.

[lisiecki]

Nah, totally chaotic good. Not a drop of law there. Alternately, debating the law-chaos axis is silly. Fun, but silly. That said, I think that sounds lawful as well.

Personally I see the Law/Chaos axis as more black and white than others do.

But this is a person, who, from what they have said, supports just laws, and works within those laws to better people.

[Xzeno]

Personally I see the Law/Chaos axis as more black and white than others do.

But this is a person, who, from what they have said, supports just laws, and works within those laws to better people.

Yeah, I kind of agree - from the information given, I think that sounds lawful. So, for your black and white view of law/chaos, what about me:

I support just laws and work within those laws to help people, but I value personal freedom above all else.

I also believe that governments should be bound by the law and that authorities have an obligation to law that is essential to their obligation to good. On the flip side, I'm guided more by what I think is right than by laws.

Maybe I'm neutral good favoring a lawful neutral government with chaotic good laws? What do you reckon?

[Harperfan7]

Yeah, I kind of agree - from the information given, I think that sounds lawful. So, for your black and white view of law/chaos, what about me:

I support just laws and work within those laws to help people, but I value personal freedom above all else.

I also believe that governments should be bound by the law and that authorities have an obligation to law that is essential to their obligation to good. On the flip side, I'm guided more by what I think is right than by laws.

Maybe I'm neutral good favoring a lawful neutral government with chaotic good laws? What do you reckon?

You sound perfectly neutral-good.

[lisiecki]

EDIT

Actually its later than I thought
and reading that after I posted it, it made no sence

Ill re post something coherent tomorrow

[Drolyt]

@Drolyt



That says "Lawful Good" what part of that description, is, in any way chaotic, whatsoever even a little tiny bit?

@DarklingPerhaps

Wow, murderous huh?

How many people have you killed...
Well...
Ever?

I guess I'm probably NG. But I value freedom over law and order (never liked that show).

[lisiecki]

Maybe I'm neutral good favoring a lawful neutral government with chaotic good laws? What do you reckon?

Ah... Sleep is good for me, and the random crap that flows through my head when I need said sleep.

Alignment works perfectly good in a role-playing game where characters do what they do because we want them to, but IF alignment worked IRL it would be harder, as we all have motivations tat only we know about, or even that we don't know about.

If it worked, then it would depend on why we do things.

I think that the Good/Evil axis should be called Selfless/selfish. According to the description given in AD&D and 3.X nothing says that an Evil character has to do bad things, it just means that deep in there core, they WANT to do bad things.

I think there's a stigma about "Lawful good". I'm friends with a teacher, who accepted a pay-cut to work in a poor district, she teaches adult ed classes for free, and protests things she feels are unfair. She will swear up and down that shes Chaotic good, when there's nothing "Chaotic" about what she does. Is she "good"?

Well that depends IMO on why she performs these actions, is she doing them because she REALLY wants to improve the world, or because she wants to fell better about her self?

I am an aggressive, hot-tempered, jackass (you may have noticed :smalltongue:). I work with disabled children and adults, because it makes me feel good to do it, and I HONESTLY enjoy sending our demon attack lawyers after those who abuse or take advantage of them. I do this, even though there ARE people out there, who may be better suited for the work.

Now, I'm angry and selfish, but I work within the laws and rules of the US, and Improve the laws of others. Is that Chaotic Evil, or Lawful good?

I think the best test of alignment is in Dark Sun.

Your asking if your "neutral good" or "chaotic good", I can't tell you what you ARE only what you appear to be. If Alignment exists in the real world, the only way that you can decide it I feel is the saying "Character is what you are in the dark." Drolyt appears to be Lawful Good. On the other hand, I know nothing about him/her other than what they just told me.

As for you, according to the Dark Sun description, that works along the lines of "your trapped in the wastes with group of people with limited water. This group includes people with classes good and evil, along with "dead weight" such as children. You what would you say you are?


Lawful Good: A character of this alignment will insist that everyone get an even share of what water there is, even those in the party who seem beyond hope. He will readily conceive of and accept plans will never let the weak or dying go without water.
This IMO would mean, that if Kalak passes a law saying that the weak and dying must go without water, or is in a party with a murderer who there boss says should go with out water because the selfless cleric deserves it more, the LG character could EDIT deny this plan, oppose or stand against this plan, even resorting to violence END EDIT even if it is EDIT "lawful" made by a lawful authority END EDIT . Remember, its not chaotic to oppose unjust laws.

You put froth the choices of neutral good, lawful neutral, and chaotic good if im reading your post correctly What do you reckon?
.


Neutral Good: A neutral good character will insist that everyone in the group get an even share of remaining water, even the severely dehydrated. He will consider plans calling for unequal water distribution, but will have to be convinced that the plan will ultimately benefit
the party and not hurt him personally.



Lawful Neutral: Such characters will insist that everyone get an even share of available water, but won’t care one way or the other about characters that may be beyond hope. He will also accept that call for unequal distribution of water for the good of the
group.


Chaotic Good: A chaotic good character will insist that everyone get an even share of the available water, even the very weak. He will consider plans calling for unequal water distribution as long as he and those he likes personally get more water as part of the plan.

[DarklingPerhaps]

*sigh* My ambiguity will be my downfall, I'm sure. When I said murderous I meant perfectly capable to murder up to contemplating how and whatnot. The main reason I don't is fear of the law rather than any moral reason. But I'd make a wicked serial killer.

THis is pushing my neutral or evil argument further towards the evil side.

[lisiecki]

THis is pushing my neutral or evil argument further towards the evil side.

Really?

So your alone in the desert with a child who's severely dehydrated, while your still quite healthy, how do you handle the water distribution?


Chaotic Neutral:Such a character will insist on his fair share, and won’t concern himself with the plight of the very weak. He won’t consider plans calling for unequal water distribution unless he personally gets more water as part of the plan.



Chaotic Evil:A chaotic evil character will freely lie, cheat, or even kill to get all the water he can. He will constantly suggest plans calling for unequal water distribution that grant him additional water immediately.

EDIT Are you going to bash that child's head in with a rock while no ones looking, to make sure that there not wasting your water on some one who may not make it home? END EDIT

[Frozen_Feet]

2. So Einstein was the only person in the world who could take 20? I must be missing something in your argument.

When you look at history, you'll note that few other people were working with relativist theories as well. Einstein just reached the finish line first, so to speak.

Really, his argument is actually quite good. Taking 20 represents taking a whopping lot of time and thought to do something, and it also polarizes meaning of small differences. When making, say, a DC 35 check, difference of +1 in ability modifier can decide who makes it and who doesn't if their efforts are sitting on a fence.

[faceroll]

When you look at history, you'll note that few other people were working with relativist theories as well. Einstein just reached the finish line first, so to speak.

Really, his argument is actually quite good. Taking 20 represents taking a whopping lot of time and thought to do something, and it also polarizes meaning of small differences. When making, say, a DC 35 check, difference of +1 in ability modifier can decide who makes it and who doesn't if their efforts are sitting on a fence.

Scientists also stand on the shoulders of giants, as Newton put it. Without the work of Galileo, Newton wouldn't have produced his seminal piece on gravity. The research of prior scientists gives you cumulative circumstance bonuses. Archimedes, for instance, may have been the smartest man to ever live. Why didn't he figure out evolution or how DNA works or come up with the theory of relativity? I think the answer should be pretty obvious. He was too early.

Being in the right place at the right time should never be underestimated. Not only do you have to have an extremely high intelligence to pull off feats like Einstein or Darwin, but you also have to have the right temperament, training, support, and just be lucky.

[Drolyt]

Scientists also stand on the shoulders of giants, as Newton put it. Without the work of Galileo, Newton wouldn't have produced his seminal piece on gravity. The research of prior scientists gives you cumulative circumstance bonuses. Archimedes, for instance, may have been the smartest man to ever live. Why didn't he figure out evolution or how DNA works or come up with the theory of relativity? I think the answer should be pretty obvious. He was too early.

Being in the right place at the right time should never be underestimated. Not only do you have to have an extremely high intelligence to pull off feats like Einstein or Darwin, but you also have to have the right temperament, training, support, and just be lucky.

I'm not sure Archimedes is the smartest person to have ever lived, there are a few people that could contend that title, Newton not least. That said I agree that most major discoveries have been made with huge circumstance bonuses. Libraries in the Stronghold Builder's Guide give bonuses up to +6 on knowledge skills. The Harvard Library or the Library of Congress should give much larger bonuses, as should the internet, and those bonuses probably stack. Access to academic journals probably provides another bonus. Access to relevant source material (for Newton, this would be like Galileo's theories and stuff) provides bonuses as well. Research and experiments would provide bonuses. Scientists are probably pretty high level experts too, with skill focus and max ranks in the relevant skills. In the end, a lousy +20 from an outrages 50 int score wouldn't help that much, since the DCs for most modern discoveries are outrageous and only possible because of the circumstance bonus from "standing on the shoulders of giants".

[lisiecki]

Are you going to bash that child's head in with a rock while no ones looking, to make sure that there not wasting your water on some one who may not make it home?

Also, how long before you start smashing there skulls in?

As soon you find out there's not enough water, or do you give them false hope?

Remember if you kill them no ones EVER going to know, and you said the only thing that stops you from killing people are the potential repercussions for your actions

[Ozymandias9]

Level ? Expert
Str:15 (I can move at my normal speed with a 70-80 lb pack while hiking, which would put me at 16 by encumbrance rules. Climb, jump, and swim measures would put me at 14. I split the difference).
Agi:8 (I'm enough of a klutz that I realistically have a penalty)
Con:~14 (I've survived a rather significant Mojave Green bite in the leg for the 2 days it took me and my friend to hike back to town. Doesn't work out well against the MM viper, but better than average.)
Int: 16 (I had 3 bonus languages at starting age)
Wis: 8 (I'm not particularly observant, but it's not so detrimental as to be disruptive or exceptionally noticable)
Char:7 (My ability to socially function is based primarily on training; I'm horribly awkward in social situations for which I haven't prepared.)

Regarding the Int discussion, the base stats for most Americans is probably -2 Str, +2 Int. We're fat and weak, but public education (particularly in the concrete operational stage) does have a noticeable benefit to int.

[Harperfan7]

Regarding the Int discussion, the base stats for most Americans is probably -2 Str, +2 Int. We're fat and weak, but public education (particularly in the concrete operational stage) does have a noticeable benefit to int.

If we have stat bonuses and penalties, its probably more -2 Con, +2 Int.

Americans aren't weak, not by a long shot, but we are fat and unhealthy (on average).

[Kurald Galain]

When Einstein rolled a nat 20 on some of his knowledge physics rolls, he would have had +2 from mw tools, +2 from aid another, +2 from standing on the shoulders of giants, +3 for skill focus, +5 for ranks, +2 from a flaw, +2 from another feat, and probably another +2 from yet another feat.
That's rather absurd. For instance, in order to get this many feats in the first place, Albert would have to be high level, which would mean he's automatically good in combat as well. For another, he would still have a decent chance of losing a "physics contest" to a random guy in high school.

Seriously, D&D / d20 is one of the worst systems printed for modeling scientific research or modern academics. It's not what it was written for, it's rarely used for that anyway, and it fails at it big time.

[Ozymandias9]

If we have stat bonuses and penalties, its probably more -2 Con, +2 Int.

Americans aren't weak, not by a long shot, but we are fat and unhealthy (on average).

You are correct, Con would be more appropriate.


That's rather absurd. For instance, in order to get this many feats in the first place, Albert would have to be high level, which would mean he's automatically good in combat as well. For another, he would still have a decent chance of losing a "physics contest" to a random guy in high school.

Seriously, D&D / d20 is one of the worst systems printed for modeling scientific research or modern academics. It's not what it was written for, it's rarely used for that anyway, and it fails at it big time.

There are only 3 feats listed there. The others are circumstance bonuses. The given bonuses only require him to be 3rd level. The random high school-er would likely not have either the skill or access necessary to benefit from most of those bonuses: they might get 1 feat, 2 ranks, the flaw, and 2 from the substantial work of prior innovators. Their check would top out in the low 30s, at best. The bonuses listed for Einstein would hit the low 40s.

And all you have to do to minimize the chance of poor rolls altering outcomes is use the complex skill check system. It was designed for complex, iterative tasks.

[hamishspence]

One of the main points of contention in the "objective assesment of stats" is the question as to how "intelligent" a person with high D&D intelligence actually is-

what would be their IQ (corrected for the cultural biases of IQ tests) and what should the Int of a high-IQ real person be, roughly translated? (given that Int is an abstraction)?

And some people seem to get hung up on number of languages spoken at 1st level- when it may not be a very good gauge of "true intelligence"

[lisiecki]

One of the main points of contention in the "objective assesment of stats" is the question as to how "intelligent" a person with high D&D intelligence actually is-

what would be their IQ (corrected for the cultural biases of IQ tests) and what should the Int of a high-IQ real person be, roughly translated? (given that Int is an abstraction)?

And some people seem to get hung up on number of languages spoken at 1st level- when it may not be a very good gauge of "true intelligence"



And some people seem to get hung up on number of languages spoken at 1st level- when it may not be a very good gauge of "true intelligence"

Its not, but thats the rule governing the fictional reality that the rules represent.

the D&D rules don't represent real life, if any one of us were to try to make ourself as a character, we would have to many/not enough langauge
to many/not enough skill points

to many/not enough feats

It would be nearly impossible to make ones self, given the the rules, and the fact that the rules don't alow for making characters that need an extra feat, need extra skill points, have extra skill points left over

As for being "hung up" on it. The number of languages is the only representation of intelligence score that the books give.

There is no formula to say that Int=IQ, because, well, its hard to give a test of understanding on common 21st century knowledge in a fantasy setting.

An "IQ" only represnts the result to an IQ test. The IQ test, presumes a persons understanding of different aspects of the 21st century world.

Hell, Given the fact that IQ tests are commonly updated and that the 100 is reset, galileo would have a pretty crappy score, as he would have no knowlage of science after his time

[Harperfan7]

Something to note: For every 5 points of strength, you are twice as strong.
So a person with 15 strength is twice as strong as someone with 10, and someone with 20 is four times as strong as a 10.

Do you think this correlates to other scores?

[Frozen_Feet]

Maybe. It's hard to say either way by looking at RAW. Still, when applied to mental stats, it falls apart. What exactly is twice smarter, or twice more charismatic? The rest of the rules don't consistently reflect such advancement - after a few levels, someone with 18 INT can have similar abilities as someone with 10 INT, as I tried demonstrating in the former commoner & expert example.

[Drolyt]

1) When making NPCs I've always had them advance in level without advancing hp, fort save, ref save, will save, or bab, but still getting skill points, feats, and ability boosts. I think this would probably represent the real world better. Given that, in say a Knowledge (Physics) check to make a new discovery, we can assume Newton had a reasonably high Int, maybe even over 20, since he was a genius, but that he was a also probably a level 20 expert with 23 ranks in the skill and skill focus, and maybe he's level 21 and has epic skill focus. Along with a +20 standing on the shoulder's of giants, which will cover all his circumstance modifiers, that nets him around 80 on a take 20, of which a measly +6 or so comes from his int bonus. I think this is more or less correct. Int wouldn't help you actually discover anything in science, what it does is give you more skill points per level (you learn faster). It probably also increases the rate you earn xp. So yeah.

2) IQ tests don't measure knowledge. They attempt to measure Intelligence Quotient, and the questions are all logic based, with lots of puzzles and riddles and stuff. I don't think it does a very good job, but it is better than most of its critics seem to think at predicting future success. Moreover I have never seen the basis of these claims of cultural bias.

[Frozen_Feet]

Many IQ tests have an obvious cultural bias, including 'common sense' questions that really aren't that outside a certain demographic. To counter this, some organizations have gone to lenghts to make 'culture neutral' tests that, for example, don't contain sentence filling or require knowledge of mathematical symbols, consisting mostly of 'what comes next?' style of block puzzles.

[Drolyt]

Many IQ tests have an obvious cultural bias, including 'common sense' questions that really aren't that outside a certain demographic. To counter this, some organizations have gone to lenghts to make 'culture neutral' tests that, for example, don't contain sentence filling or require knowledge of mathematical symbols, consisting mostly of 'what comes next?' style of block puzzles.

I'll take your word for it. Truth is, I've seen tests like that but they weren't IQ tests, and I always assumed people were just getting them conflated. A proper IQ test doesn't assume anything, it is supposed to determine reasoning ability, not that the subject knows anything in particular or has any particular skills. IQ tests aren't very accurate at predicting true intelligence, but there is a correlation between IQ and both level of educational attainment and how much money you make, at least in the US.

[lisiecki]

Many IQ tests have an obvious cultural bias, including 'common sense' questions that really aren't that outside a certain demographic. To counter this, some organizations have gone to lenghts to make 'culture neutral' tests that, for example, don't contain sentence filling or require knowledge of mathematical symbols, consisting mostly of 'what comes next?' style of block puzzles.

Owl+Bear+Bed= owlbear

Oldman+anything= fireball

[Soranar]

I've taught/tutored many people in various subjects and from what I've seen many tend to undermine their own intelligence.

Especially if they don't consider themselves geniuses or at least above average.

Sure, say you have 10 in Int (or a 100 IQ). You're not that smart but you're hardly an idiot.

To tackle a problem most people need to believe they can solve it. I had this student who could solve just about any problem I put to him as long as I was around. I didn't even need to say anything or give him hints: most of the time I just repeated the question (with the same exact words, just slowly or with encouragements). Sure enough he would solve it minutes later. His last teacher (and his parents) had him convinced he was stupid and he simply refused to even try.

Call it American syndrome if you will, but I believe some people are far too quick to claim themselves stupid as an excuse to avoid mental exertion. Maybe you can't measure intelligence, but the willingless to apply yourself to a problem is at least as important as the mental capacity of the person.

Simply being smart is not enough. It takes discipline, thoroughness and patience to achieve anything in most scientific fields (which is why I avoid them like the plague).

[Deepblue706]

Call it American syndrome if you will, but I believe some people are far too quick to claim themselves stupid as an excuse to avoid mental exertion. Maybe you can't measure intelligence, but the willingless to apply yourself to a problem is at least as important as the mental capacity of the person.

Simply being smart is not enough. It takes discipline, thoroughness and patience to achieve anything in most scientific fields (which is why I avoid them like the plague).

I think it is very common in America. I happen to have faith that average people are capable of quite a lot, but they lack a willingness to try due to a lack of energy, discipline, patience...things like that. Although I hardly blame these people for it.

"No such thing good student. Only good teacher."

[Drolyt]

I think it is very common in America. I happen to have faith that average people are capable of quite a lot, but they lack a willingness to try due to a lack of energy, discipline, patience...things like that. Although I hardly blame these people for it.

"No such thing good student. Only good teacher."

About the there being no such thing as a good student, It is hard to fill a cup that is already full. Too many people don't want to learn, or think they know everything they need to know. They realize too late how little they do know. After all, Socrates was the wisest man alive because he alone realized that he knew nothing. But remember Plutarch: the mind is not a vessel to be filled, but a fire to be kindled. A truly great teacher teaches the student to think for himself, and instills in him a desire to learn.

[Ormagoden]

Woulda been really awesome if this thread stayed on topic...much to my dismay it's time to unsubscribe :(

[lisiecki]

Woulda been really awesome if this thread stayed on topic...much to my dismay it's time to unsubscribe :(

Yes your right.

It would have been FAR more intresting if people just contiuned to tell us how many 18s they have in there stat line

if you awn tto see that, just check the archives, this comes up every 3 months, and MOST of the threads are 20+ pages long

[Drolyt]

Yes your right.

It would have been FAR more intresting if people just contiuned to tell us how many 18s they have in there stat line

if you awn tto see that, just check the archives, this comes up every 3 months, and MOST of the threads are 20+ pages long

Well obviously I have 7 18s for stats. On a side note how has this gone off topic? It was about people stating themselves using D&D rules, and that's what we have been discussing.

[lisiecki]

Well obviously I have 7 18s for stats. On a side note how has this gone off topic? It was about people stating themselves using D&D rules, and that's what we have been discussing.

Well, Drolyt we all know its true for you. I'm more upset by the people who are stealing your thunder

[Revanmal]

Human Expert 2
Str 12 (Neighborhood log-carrying champ 3 years running)
Dex 12 (I'm not too agile, but I have good manual dexterity, and can be kinda sneaky. Not bad with a rifle either.)
Con 9 (I get winded kinda easy)
Int 13 (I are know because of my learnings)
Wis 14 (My snarky advice has helped many a friend in crisis)
Cha 8 (No one likes me, QQ)

Skills: Knowledge (History, Religion, Nature, Local, Physics, Computer Programming, Language, Art, Music), Perform (Oratory), Profession (Programmer, Web Designer), Diplomacy, Move Silently, Handle Animal.

I tend to dabble in different things when it comes to knowledges.

Feats: Stealthy, Toughness

[Drolyt]

Human Expert 2
Str 12 (Neighborhood log-carrying champ 3 years running)
Dex 12 (I'm not too agile, but I have good manual dexterity, and can be kinda sneaky. Not bad with a rifle either.)
Con 9 (I get winded kinda easy)
Int 13 (I are know because of my learnings)
Wis 14 (My snarky advice has helped many a friend in crisis)
Cha 8 (No one likes me, QQ)

Skills: Knowledge (History, Religion, Nature, Local, Physics, Computer Programming, Language, Art, Music), Perform (Oratory), Profession (Programmer, Web Designer), Diplomacy, Move Silently, Handle Animal.

I tend to dabble in different things when it comes to knowledges.

Feats: Stealthy, Toughness

A neighborhood log carrying champ is maybe probably above Str 12. Although I'm not sure what a log carrying contest entails (besides obviously carrying logs).

[Revanmal]

A neighborhood log carrying champ is maybe probably above Str 12. Although I'm not sure what a log carrying contest entails (besides obviously carrying logs).

It wasn't official or anything. :P Basically just who could go farthest with a big log on your shoulders. When I lived up in the mountains all the neighbors would gather and have all kinds of games like who could throw a rock the farthest.

Hillbillies at their finest. :smallbiggrin:

[lisiecki]

It wasn't official or anything. :P Basically just a race with big heavy pieces of log on your shoulders. When I lived up in the mountains all the neighbors would gather and have all kinds of games like who could throw a rock the farthest.

Hillbillies at their finest. :smallbiggrin:

Strength is MUCH easier to score, as the chart lists EXACTLY how much an individual can lift, drag, push

[Ormur]

Human expert 1

Str: 6
Dex: 12
Con: 10
Wis: 8
Int: 17 (comparing IQ percentile to the percentage of rolls using 3d6 but based on an old IQ test which means I'm probably lower now)
Cha: 10

Heh, 20 point buy.

I guess historian would be covered by knowledge: history rather than profession: historian. Knowledge local also, all the real world knowledge skills actually.

[lisiecki]

Human expert 1

Int: 17 (comparing IQ percentile to the percentage of rolls using 3d6 but based on an old IQ test which means I'm probably lower now)


:sigh:

Lets see 140 is already higher than 99.9% of the population are the odds of using 3d6 to roll a 17 really 3 stranded deviations harder than 4?

[Lappy9000]

I like to think I've found an allright way to determine stats based on D&D 3.5.

Strength: Carrying Capacity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/carryingCapacity.htm). Weigh yourself down until you begin to feel encumbered by a Medium, and eventually, Heavy load. I used a bookbag full of books to give me a 9 Strength score.

Constitution: Drowning Rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm). Time yourself holding your breath a few times and take the average (preferably not right after each other). According to the rules, you can hold your breath for a number of rounds equal to twice your Constitution score. For me, that's 120 seconds, or 20 rounds, giving a 10 Constitution score.

Intelligence: Take a couple of IQ tests. If 10 is the average Intelligence, and if 100 is the average IQ, multiply your average score on an IQ test and multiply it by 10. Round up or down depending on how smart you feel. For me, I rounded down a 124 IQ to a 12 Intelligence score.

************************
The rest are harder to test, although I'd love some suggestions. It's obviously not an exact science, but it could be fun, and may give you an average/ballpark estimate.

[satorian]

I really can't see why carrying capacity would be better than a dead overhead lift, why holding one's breath would be better than how far you can run or swim, or how likely you are to resist pathogens. Or for dex, how well you can play certain video games vs. how well you can do the knife thing from Aliens vs. how proficient you are at dodging a punch. The point is that these are different abilities that for game reasons are lumped into a single number. There is simply no way of reconciling that fact. The same problem arises with intelligence. The ability to memorize is distinct from the ability to manipulate complex ideas is distinct from many of the "multiple intelligences" many espouse. Wisdom and Charisma are simply subjective numbers that don't really quantify anything, and there is no way around that.

For some of the numbers, say strength, to even begin to extrapolate to the real world, you'd have to start by doing the 2.5e Player's option splitting of ability scores, but go further.

Example: STR_a: Upper body fast twitch power
STR_b: Upper Body slow twitch power
STR_c: Upper body muscular endurance
STR_d: Lower .... you get the point.

If you choose to base intelligence on IQ, you certainly can, but really such would be "Intelligence_a". If you choose to do so, either you can go with 18 being the maximum a starting human could have at the beginning of adventuring age, say 16, or you can not do that. If you do, then 18 /= 180 IQ, since 16-year-olds can and do have IQs higher than 180. Really, we don't know what the maximum possible IQ is, but the highest modern measured IQ is over 200. If you want to read about IQ stuff, not for authority but just for readability, check this out: link:http://onemansblog.com/2007/11/08/the-massive-list-of-genius-people-with-the-highest-iq/ /link

So another option for IQs is to use standard deviations. Problematically, 3d6 doesn't approximate standard deviation across a population. At all. And of course in DnD, there is a 0 probability of rolling a 20 on a 3d6. Yet, the 18 is not a strong enough standard deviation to catch the true geniuses among us, such as the 6 members of the Giga Society, all of whom have a measured adult IQ over 196. They are, as the name of the society implies, each one-in-a-billion. No d6 or d20 die roll could possibly do that justice.

One conclusion you could then come to is that these are both wrong ways to do IQ to Intelligence, but the truth is that all this shows is that game Int is simply not mappable onto real world intelligence with any accurate metric.

[Drolyt]

I really can't see why carrying capacity would be better than a dead overhead lift, why holding one's breath would be better than how far you can run or swim, or how likely you are to resist pathogens. Or for dex, how well you can play certain video games vs. how well you can do the knife thing from Aliens vs. how proficient you are at dodging a punch. The point is that these are different abilities that for game reasons are lumped into a single number. There is simply no way of reconciling that fact. The same problem arises with intelligence. The ability to memorize is distinct from the ability to manipulate complex ideas is distinct from many of the "multiple intelligences" many espouse. Wisdom and Charisma are simply subjective numbers that don't really quantify anything, and there is no way around that.

For some of the numbers, say strength, to even begin to extrapolate to the real world, you'd have to start by doing the 2.5e Player's option splitting of ability scores, but go further.

Example: STR_a: Upper body fast twitch power
STR_b: Upper Body slow twitch power
STR_c: Upper body muscular endurance
STR_d: Lower .... you get the point.

If you choose to base intelligence on IQ, you certainly can, but really such would be "Intelligence_a". If you choose to do so, either you can go with 18 being the maximum a starting human could have at the beginning of adventuring age, say 16, or you can not do that. If you do, then 18 /= 180 IQ, since 16-year-olds can and do have IQs higher than 180. Really, we don't know what the maximum possible IQ is, but the highest modern measured IQ is over 200. If you want to read about IQ stuff, not for authority but just for readability, check this out: link:http://onemansblog.com/2007/11/08/the-massive-list-of-genius-people-with-the-highest-iq/ /link

So another option for IQs is to use standard deviations. Problematically, 3d6 doesn't approximate standard deviation across a population. At all. And of course in DnD, there is a 0 probability of rolling a 20 on a 3d6. Yet, the 18 is not a strong enough standard deviation to catch the true geniuses among us, such as the 6 members of the Giga Society, all of whom have a measured adult IQ over 196. They are, as the name of the society implies, each one-in-a-billion. No d6 or d20 die roll could possibly do that justice.

One conclusion you could then come to is that these are both wrong ways to do IQ to Intelligence, but the truth is that all this shows is that game Int is simply not mappable onto real world intelligence with any accurate metric.

I by and large agree with you. On IQ though one should note that because it is based on standard deviations our ability to accurately test it decreases the further away you go from 100. The IQ tests that do try to predict high IQ, such as those used for entry into certain highly exclusive societies, are almost certainly not as accurate as the Stanford-Bennett, despite the higher precision. Also note that IQ measures how smart you are for your age, whereas D&D's Intelligence score is an absolute measurement of intelligence. Finally, Charisma does have a meaning, it's force of personality. So for example I have poor social skills, yet in spite of that people seem to automatically like me and I can almost always get people to do what I want. So I would have 0 ranks in relevant skills but a high charisma. As for Wisdom, frankly I have no clue.

[hamishspence]

The PHB suggests that "simple but insightful" is a good sign of low Int, high Wis, whereas the "absent-minded professor" archetype is the reverse.

Wis and Charisma might be difficult to quantify, but still recognizable.

[megabyter5]

Here's my stats:

Expert 3 (Possibly giving myself too much credit, but who really knows?)
Lawful Neutral Good (Alignment shift is a strange thing)
STR 10
DEX 12
CON 9
INT 14
WIS 10
CHA 11

(Yeah, clearly I didn't roll anything that great... At least I'm not claiming to have any 18's or anything.)

Expert class skills: Knowledge (Computers, Mathematics, Chemistry, History, Politics), Perform (Drums, Musical Theatre, Oratory), Profession (Writer), ???

(Experts get 10 class skills, but I couldn't think of a tenth. Oh well.)

[Thend]

I give myself these stats though I'm probably being fairly generous with the stats and VERY generous with the skills.

Lvl 1 Half Elf Nutter
Str: 3
Dex: 9
Con: 5
Int: 4
Wis:3
Cha:6
Ranks: Trolling (IRL) 2, Trolling (Online) 1, Knowledge (Philosophy) 1,Knowledge (video Games) 2,
Abstracting ∞/0

[Jon_Dahl]

Commoner 1st-level Lawful Neutral
Age: 28
Hp: 5
AC: 9, touch 9, flat-footed 9
Chosen weapon: Dart, attack -1
STR: 11, Con: 13, Dex: 9, Int: 10, Wis: 7, Cha: 9
Feats: Negotiator, Skill focus (escape artist)

Skills ranks
Profession (monkey): 2
Escape artist: 1
Swim: 1
Knowledge (history): 1
Knowledge (sports): 1
Knowledge (roleplaying): 1
Speak language: ½

Trait:
Absent-minded, Brawler

Brief explanation:
I have been working out enough to have STR 11 (even though right now I'm injured), I love running and jogging and I seldomly get sick (CON 13), I'm clumsy (DEX 9), I have IQ of 111 or so (INT 10), I'm absent-minded (WIS 7), I don't stand out at least in a positive way (CHA 9).

I'm a quiet guy but still talking is speciality (Negotiator) and I have wrestling-background and I'm very slippery customer on ground (Skill focus on Escape Artist).

About skills: I'm a professional monkey, I like swimming and I know about history, sports and roleplaying. I also have some skills in Portuguese.

I think that is about it.

[Soonerdj]

My stats are:

Level 3 Human Factotum

Str: 9 (meh)
Dex: 10 (Not great balance but not overly terrible)
Con: 12 (Ok I ran and all that so not bad)
Int: 16 (I can remember everything I read or hear)
Wis: 8 (Not wise at all, I fail spot listen all the time)
Cha: 8 (awkward in person, ok in other mediums)

Skills:
Knowledge:D&D - 6 ranks
Knowledge:WoW - 6 ranks
Knowledge:History - 3 ranks
Knowledge:Biology - 4 ranks
Knowledge:Trivia - 4 ranks
Then a ton of knowledges with 1 rank (Stumble and book reading)
Sleight of Hand - 2 ranks
Search - 4 ranks
Diplomacy - 2 ranks
Swim - 6 ranks
And ranks in some of the sense skills.

Yeah basically a huge reservoir of untapped knowledge with a hyper focus in some. But not much else really.

[SilverStar]

My stats... I guess:

Level 3 Human Bard (Yeah, I went there.)

Str: 10 (..I'm okay, I guess, in comparison to people I know.)
Dex: 12 (I can dodge slow moving objects..okay, better than THAT)
Con: 6 (I get sick a lot. Plus, I'm as thin as a rail.)
Int: 17 (I have a mind and I dare to use it. Sue me.)
Wis: 15 (I learn from my mistakes...usually...and have fair insight.)
Cha: 12 (and I'm a bard?! Eh, so much for spellcasting.)

Feats:

Skill Focus: Perform (Voice)
Ability Focus: Bardic Music- Fascinate
Extra Music

Main skill ranks: All Knowledges maxed out; I know a LOT of random crap. Others not so much.

Flaws: Piss-Poor Vision: Not only do I NOT have darkvision, I have the opposite of darkvision. Additionally, I autofail all Spot checks if I don't wear glasses.