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Soranar
2010-01-24, 01:46 PM
still a rookie about applying templates

but if I understand right, when you're an undead you use your CHA instead of your CON score

and your hit dies are d12 no matter what class you play? do you get your CHA bonus to Hitpoints too?

and what happens if you play a necropolitan paladin and you turn something?

Temotei
2010-01-24, 01:55 PM
still a rookie about applying templates

Alright.


but if I understand right, when you're an undead you use your CHA instead of your CON score

For certain things. Concentration is one example.


and your hit dies are d12 no matter what class you play? do you get your CHA bonus to Hitpoints too?

You get d12 hit dice, unless otherwise specified (I haven't seen any undead without d12's, except in homebrew). You do not get your Charisma modifier to hit points, but there is a feat that allows you to get something like that.


and what happens if you play a necropolitan paladin and you turn something?

The same thing that happens normally, except some paladins would fall for becoming undead, which takes away from your ability to turn undead.

Lamech
2010-01-24, 02:00 PM
and what happens if you play a necropolitan paladin and you turn something?Turning happens as normal. Which might be a problem. A big one.


You turn the closest turnable undead first
Also the DM may declare creating any form of undead an evil act, that specific ritual an evil act or declare that paying the people who do it an evil act. Or any of those things could be a code violation. Which would make you fall, but thats why we have atonement.

lord_khaine
2010-01-24, 02:11 PM
You get d12 hit dice, unless otherwise specified (I haven't seen any undead without d12's, except in homebrew). You do not get your Charisma modifier to hit points, but there is a feat that allows you to get something like that.


The best thing you can get is improved toughness that gives 1 additional hp per level.

Temotei
2010-01-24, 02:15 PM
The best thing you can get is improved toughness that gives 1 additional hp per level.

Pretty sure there's something in a Dragon magazine that gives you Cha mod/level hit points once.

Soranar
2010-01-24, 02:25 PM
so in short

necropolitan are great to get rid of CON and make excellent sorcerers, otherwise they're not that impressive

The Glyphstone
2010-01-24, 02:26 PM
Unholy Toughness (+CHAxHD to HP) is an ability of numerous undead monsters from MM3 and beyond, it's not a feat or class ability.

There is a feat, the name of which I can't remember, that swaps your CHA for CON to determine 1st level HP only, but after that it's CON as normal.

Faerie Mysteries Initiate is the Dragon feat letting you (as an elf), use your INT instead of CON for every level.

Necropolitans make better Wizards than sorcerers, since you can be an Elf and take FMI, then turn into an undead (Con penalty? What Con penalty?) and have vast amounts of HP.

JaronK
2010-01-24, 05:53 PM
so in short

necropolitan are great to get rid of CON and make excellent sorcerers, otherwise they're not that impressive

If you're created on desecrated ground, you get +2 HP/HD. If you're created by a Dread Necromancer, you get an additional +2HP/HD and +4 Enhancement bonus to Str and Dex. Depending on DM interpretation, you may get a further +2 HP/HD if said DN had Corpse Crafter.

If you disguise yourself as being a living version of yourself, then the necropolitan immunities are really handy.

JaronK

BenTheJester
2010-01-24, 06:23 PM
If you're created on desecrated ground, you get +2 HP/HD. If you're created by a Dread Necromancer, you get an additional +2HP/HD and +4 Enhancement bonus to Str and Dex. Depending on DM interpretation, you may get a further +2 HP/HD if said DN had Corpse Crafter.

If you disguise yourself as being a living version of yourself, then the necropolitan immunities are really handy.

JaronK

Necropolitans aren't created through animate dead or create undead, I don't think a dread necromancer can create one.


Unholy Toughness (+CHAxHD to HP) is an ability of numerous undead monsters from MM3 and beyond, it's not a feat or class ability.

Wrong. Walker in the Waste gets cha to HP(well actually, the dry lich does, but you gain the template at level 10)

Although this won't really give you cha to HP as a necropolitan, as you need to be living to get the Dry Lich template.

Lamech
2010-01-24, 06:35 PM
Of course, dread necro's can create them. Its a ritual so just about anyone should be able to do it, especially dread necros. So yeah you can definitly stack the whole +6 if you can find a dread necro with corspe crafter to make you one. Of course, they can command a lot more in payments soo... also if your a paladin paying people like that probably is a no-no.

Also note one would need a con of 30 to have comparable HP if you get all the bonuses stacked on your undead.

Kelb_Panthera
2010-01-24, 06:50 PM
As long as you're a multiclass paladin that became a necropolitan before your first level in paladin it could be okay fluff-wise. As for turning, there are paladins that use their turn attempts for turning? I thought that they all took divine feats these days.

GolemsVoice
2010-01-24, 07:00 PM
There are two feats in the World of Warcraft RPG splatbook Horde Player's Guide.
The first one is called Mind Over Matter and let's you add your CHA modifier to ALL your hit dice, including your current, and the second, requiring MoM, is called Mental Stamina, an let's you use CHA for EVERYTHING that normally uses CON, such as Fortitude saving throws etc, and everything that would affect your CON now affects your CHA. I see no reason why you couldn't use these feats outside of the World of Warcraft.

Runestar
2010-01-24, 07:13 PM
and your hit dies are d12 no matter what class you play? do you get your CHA bonus to Hitpoints too?

Necropolitan does say to increase to D12s, so that would benefit all your class lvs.

Class lv HD not being upgraded is usually a quirk of undead with racial HD, such as the mummy (see the MM entry on the mummy cleric).

Usually, undead templates will improve all HD to d12s. You won't last long otherwise. :smalltongue:

KillianHawkeye
2010-01-24, 08:46 PM
Don't worry about turning if it's from Paladin. You'd have a very difficult time actually turning yourself since the Paladin's turning is so weak. And if you're worried about turning in general, just take the Improved Turn Resistance feat from Libris Mortis.

JoshuaZ
2010-01-24, 08:55 PM
Necropolitans aren't created through animate dead or create undead, I don't think a dread necromancer can create one.

Not what matters. I don't have HoH on me right now but the wording for the DN is fairly broad so they just need to be one of the main creators in the ritual. Similar remarks apply to corpsecrafter feats (although there it is more arguable). The wording for desecrate also supports this trick:



This spell imbues an area with negative energy. Each Charisma check made to turn undead within this area takes a -3 profane penalty, and every undead creature entering a desecrated area gains a +1 profane bonus on attack rolls, damage rolls, and saving throws. An undead creature created within or summoned into such an area gains +1 hit points per HD.


I don't see it making distinction between creating by a spell, spell-like ability, supernatural ability, ritual or anything else. Indeed, the only part of the text that does make a distinction is later:



Furthermore, anyone who casts animate dead within this area may create as many as double the normal amount of undead (that is, 4 HD per caster level rather than 2 HD per caster level).


Generally, if one makes a distinction in one part of something but not in another it is because one really didn't intend to have a distinction in the part that doesn't have it stated. There's some fancy legal term for this but at the moment it escapes me.

PlzBreakMyCmpAn
2010-01-26, 02:40 AM
you can be an Elf and take FMI, then turn into an undead (Con penalty? What Con penalty?) and have vast amounts of HP.


If you're created on desecrated ground, you get +2 HP/HD. If you're created by a Dread Necromancer, you get an additional +2HP/HD and +4 Enhancement bonus to Str and Dex. Depending on DM interpretation, you may get a further +2 HP/HD if said DN had Corpse Crafter.

you [should] disguise yourself as being living

To have insane HP add in walker of the wastes (yes it was mentioned before) with max int and cha:

Level 12 if 'participating' fulfills the 'created by' clause of DN, else Level 18:
each level has d12 + int mod + cha mod + 2 + 2 + 2

There's no way a barbarian will have con > 6 + your int+cha mods

Person_Man
2010-01-26, 10:19 AM
In addition to worrying about your hit points, Turn/Rebuke Undead, and potential alignment issues (which are DC specific - Necropolitan itself doesn't effect your alignment), you also need to worry about your Fort Save being garbage. Although in most cases you are immune, spells and effects which effect objects (like Disintegrate) are pretty much an auto-win button against you.

If you want to play a Necropolitan, your best bet is to play a summoner or a similar control oriented build that can hang back and avoid attacks.