Help me kill them with a big bag of swords

[Dyllan]

I was reading over Telekinesis, and had a thought.

The third option - lift up to an item per level (max 15) and hurl them at someone. Weapons used do normal damage (with not strength bonus). There's also a weight limit on the items that comes out to an average weight of 25 pounds. So a level 15 caster could hurl 15 greatswords for 30d6 damage at someone.

The problem is, the attack rolls are based off your BAB + caster stat. Sorcerers and Wizards have horrible BAB. So I'm trying to figure out how to get a high BAB while being able to cast Telekinesis as many times a day as possible. The Ring of Telekinesis is only caster level 9, so that's not ideal (but a decent backup for when he runs out of spells).

Additionally, we can be a lot crazier with damage than 15 greatswords. Greatswords weigh 8 pounds. So you could make them large, increasing damage to 3d6 each (45d6 total). Or, make them out of mithril, and make them huge for the same weight (4d6 each, or 60d6 total). But, it's based on total weight, not weight per item, so 7 of them could be gargantuan, doing 6d6 each. That's 74d6 damage if all the attacks hit. And all it takes is a big enough bag of holding and a bunch of oversized mithril greatswords.

So, how do I get a high BAB, and the ability to cast Telekinesis at CL 15 as many times a day as possible. The lower level I can pull this off at, the better.

[Yora]

- "Is that your little bag of tricks?"
- "No. Bag of knifes."

I'd houserule that the caster uses CL instead of BAB, as the weapons are not used as they are meant to and instead become a component of a spell.

[SurlySeraph]

Take the Arcane Disciple feat from Complete Divine. It lets you cast divine spells from a chosen domain as an arcane caster. Take the War Domain. Use Divine Power.

[Dyllan]

Take the Arcane Disciple feat from Complete Divine. It lets you cast divine spells from a chosen domain as an arcane caster. Take the War Domain. Use Divine Power.

You know how long I've been trying to dig up information for Gish builds to pull this off... and you throw me a perfect method without even trying...

Thanks.

[ShippoWildheart]

Can you combine True Strike with Telekinesis, and call your sword attack as one single attack?

*Ooooooo SurlySeraph got a better idea, and is legit too. :smallredface:

[SurlySeraph]

You're very welcome. Bonus advice: go into Sacred Exorcist to get Turn Undead so you can pull off Divine Metamagic Persistent Spell shenanigans as an arcane caster.

@V: But your party members will love Persistent Chained Magic Vestment and/or Greater Magic Weapon and/or Wraithstrike!

[randomhero00]

You're very welcome. Bonus advice: go into Sacred Exorcist to get Turn Undead so you can pull off Divine Metamagic Persistent Spell shenanigans as an arcane caster.

Your DM will hate you :)

[Crafty Cultist]

The telekenesis spell description states that you use your caster level as BAB and add your Spellcasting ability modifier in place of strength

[Prime32]

I was in a game with The_Mad_Linguist at BG where he had a ghost build based on this (sadly, it kinda collapsed).

He went with Colossal sianghams for better damage-to-weight ratio.

[Dyllan]

The telekenesis spell description states that you use your caster level as BAB and add your Spellcasting ability modifier in place of strength

Only for Combat Maneuvers, if I read it right. Not for the Violent Thrust.

[AslanCross]

While you're at it, get Steeldance as well. Attacking with two greatswords is pretty fun.

[Moak]

If you want to use telekinesis A LOT...there is always the ol'good Master of the Unseen Hand [CompleteWarrior]

No spellcasting prog,but full BAB and some dirty telekinetik tricks...like make telekinetik fullattack

[Aquillion]

Honestly, if you're not stuck on magic, I suggest using Psionics instead. Telekinetic Thrust (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/telekineticThrust.htm) does what you want as a 3rd level power, and a psionic character is much better for focusing on one specific ability, if you don't care about spellcasting / manifesting aside from that.

You could get the spell by being a Psychic Warrior and taking Expanded Knowledge, or you could be a Slayer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/slayer.htm).

A Psion Uncarnate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/psionUncarnate.htm) gets Telekinetic Thrust for free as a standard action, so that's worth mentioning... but that class is stupidly skewed, since most of its abilities are only worth it when you hit level 10. And it's 1/2 BAB. But it's still worth mentioning for anyone who wants to use Telekinetic Thrust, especially if you can find a houseruled version of it that doesn't take so stupid long to become useful.

[Ernir]

You're very welcome. Bonus advice: go into Sacred Exorcist to get Turn Undead so you can pull off Divine Metamagic Persistent Spell shenanigans as an arcane caster.

Doesn't work. Arcane Disciple allows you to cast the domain spells as arcane spells, and DMM has been errata'd to not work with arcane spells. =/

[Pie Guy]

But there are a bunch of ways to cast arcane spells as divine spells.

Alternate Source Magic, or Southern Magician for a feat.

[Kelb_Panthera]

If you're set on being a spell-caster then gishing out is the obvious choice. But if you just want a telekinetic badass, you could always grab a ring of telekinesis and take levels in Master of the Unseen Hand.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Isn't it better to be a ghost (for telekinesis as a SLA at will) and master of the unseen hand?

[Dimers]

You know how long I've been trying to dig up information for Gish builds to pull this off... and you throw me a perfect method without even trying...

Thanks.

Mind you, Arcane Disciple requires substantial Wisdom, and only allows you to cast each level of domain spell once per day. So you can do ONE divine power casting per day, IF you have Wis 14+.

I like your idea ... I visualize it in Final Fantasy battle-cutscene style, with a dozen shining blades streaming out of a portal, through the enemy, and into another portal.

See if you can get the DM to agree that the giant greatswords have all become "ammunition", so you can also cast flame arrow on them. :smallbiggrin:

[Teddy]

See if you can get the DM to agree that the giant greatswords have all become "ammunition", so you can also cast flame arrow on them. :smallbiggrin:

But ammunition is destroyed when it hits (or 50% of the time when missing, but the OP wants them to hit). It will be a hurting investment to get 7 new gargantuan mithril greatswords before every battle (but the local master blacksmith will be thriving).

[Moak]

See if you can get the DM to agree that the giant greatswords have all become "ammunition", so you can also cast flame arrow on them. :smallbiggrin:

And if he doesn't,you can always chain-combust them...right?

[Shardan]

just use vorpal swords while you're at it :/

or coat them with save or die poisons.. thats 10 save or dies per round, right?

[Tyndmyr]

Take the Arcane Disciple feat from Complete Divine. It lets you cast divine spells from a chosen domain as an arcane caster. Take the War Domain. Use Divine Power.

That feat just adds them to your class list, right? It doesn't actually give you bonus slots.

Just comparing against Domain Wizard, fyi.

[SurlySeraph]

@^: Correct.


or coat them with save or die poisons.. thats 10 save or dies per round, right?

Save or die poisons are expensive. And there aren't any in core.

[Beorn080]

Average weight or average mass? Cause if its weight, research a one round null gravity spell or some such. Then pull out your 15 colossal greatswords that no longer weigh anything without a gravitational field, and have at it.

If that's too cheesy for your DM, average weight is your friend. Rogue halfling plus 14 mithril daggers equals flying rogue sneak attack.

[drengnikrafe]

just use vorpal swords while you're at it :/
Now we're right back to "Ammo possibly destroyed on impact."


or coat them with save or die poisons.. thats 10 save or dies per round, right?

Or you can go with Drow Poison. It's fairly cheap, and almost as good as death.

[sofawall]

Average weight or average mass? Cause if its weight, research a one round null gravity spell or some such. Then pull out your 15 colossal greatswords that no longer weigh anything without a gravitational field, and have at it.

If that's too cheesy for your DM, average weight is your friend. Rogue halfling plus 14 mithril daggers equals flying rogue sneak attack.

Pounds are defined as units of mass, actually. They are defined by grams.

[Beorn080]

Actually, pounds are a unit of force, not mass.

In the physical sciences, the weight of an object is the magnitude, W, of the force that must be applied to an object in order to support it (i.e. hold it at rest) in a gravitational field. The weight of an object in static equilibrium equals the magnitude of the gravitational force acting on the object, less the effect of its buoyancy in any fluid in which it might be immersed.[1] Near the surface of the Earth, the acceleration due to gravity is approximately constant; this means that an object's weight near the surface of the Earth is roughly proportional to its mass.

Therefore, a temporary dismissal of the gravitational field would eliminate an objects weight.

[Bakkan]

However, assuming that Telekinesis works by applying a force to the target, then the target's movement would be based on mass rather than weight (as acceleration = force/mass), so I would rule that Telekinesis is not more powerful in areas of less gravity, unless it is being used specifically to lift or keep something from falling. This wouldn't be the Telekinesis spell being more powerful, but rather having less to fight against.

[BadJuJu]

Now we're right back to "Ammo possibly destroyed on impact."



Or you can go with Drow Poison. It's fairly cheap, and almost as good as death.

Would throwing/returning allow them to survive the attack?