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nekomata2
2010-01-25, 02:13 PM
Is it possible for a character, from levels 9-20, (the first 8 levels are spoken for, with certainly enough skills ranks to qualify for anything, not human, so only 3 feats in the first 8 levels), with no prior spellcasting, to gain 9th level spells? Preferably Cha-based. Obviously I expect cheese, but it'd be great if there were less cheesy solutions.

Optimystik
2010-01-25, 02:14 PM
Ur-Priest, Sublime Chord - both get 9ths in 9 levels. (Divine and Arcane respectively.)

Sublime Chord is Cha-based but is hard to get without levels in Bard.

Kylarra
2010-01-25, 02:19 PM
Divine Crusader also gets you 9th level spells in 9 levels, but only in one domain.

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-01-25, 02:21 PM
There's also Beholder Mage, but that's Int-based arcane casting for the obvious sort of creature.:smalltongue:

Divine Crusader also nets 9th level spells in 9, but only from one domain. It may be possible to get multiply domains via Contemplative and other, serious multiclassing, but it's not really worth it on that end.

EDIT: Half-ninja'd.

nekomata2
2010-01-25, 02:22 PM
Ur-Priest is divine, and I was looking at Sublime Chord, but the problem is being able to cast 3rd level spells and get bardic music fast enough to still be able to obtain those precious 9th level spells.

Milskidasith
2010-01-25, 02:23 PM
Ur-Priest is divine, and I was looking at Sublime Chord, but the problem is being able to cast 3rd level spells and get bardic music fast enough to still be able to obtain those precious 9th level spells.

Sanctum spell and precocious apprentice? Combine the two, and you can cast third level spells with a one level dip in a spellcasting class.

What are your first 8 levels?

Foryn Gilnith
2010-01-25, 02:24 PM
Ardent + Practiced Manifester + Orange Ioun Stone might just make it to 9th-level manifesting.

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-01-25, 02:27 PM
Ardent + Practiced Manifester + Orange Ioun Stone might just make it to 9th-level manifesting.

It may be easier to go Mind Mage (Dragon 313, may be one of the other 31X, issues) could possibly due the trick, what with it's free +10 ML/CL boost for getting 9th level powers as an ardent.

Tyndmyr
2010-01-25, 02:32 PM
Sanctum spell and precocious apprentice? Combine the two, and you can cast third level spells with a one level dip in a spellcasting class.

What are your first 8 levels?

Take those feats, one level in bard(you need bardic music for sublime chord), followed by one level of sublime chord.

Then, take one level of ur priest and DMM.

Follow it up with 9 levels of Mystic Theurge. Congrats, dual 9s in 12 levels.

Disclaimer: It does eat what, five feats?

nekomata2
2010-01-25, 02:38 PM
Sanctum spell and precocious apprentice? Combine the two, and you can cast third level spells with a one level dip in a spellcasting class.

What are your first 8 levels?

The first 8 levels are Succubus. Everyone in our party are monsters, so we changed the way monsters are calculated, but are party lacks an arcane caster that isn't a frickin chameleon....got 3 of those. I had previously decided to play a wizard instead of Succubus, but it keeps luring me back as a fun and interesting opportunity.

So obviously, I wanted the casting Cha-based, to take advantage of my huge racial Charisma. I hadn't considered the dual-9s though....that could just be interesting.

Person_Man
2010-01-25, 02:43 PM
Chameleon gets you casting from ANY list up to 6th level spells, plus UMD.

Ernir
2010-01-25, 03:00 PM
The first 8 levels are Succubus. Everyone in our party are monsters, so we changed the way monsters are calculated, but are party lacks an arcane caster that isn't a frickin chameleon....got 3 of those. I had previously decided to play a wizard instead of Succubus, but it keeps luring me back as a fun and interesting opportunity.

So obviously, I wanted the casting Cha-based, to take advantage of my huge racial Charisma. I hadn't considered the dual-9s though....that could just be interesting.

Yeah, as a Succubus, you want your 9th level casting to come from Sublime Chord.

Take a look at the feats Heighten Spell, Versatile Spellcaster, Precocious Apprentice and Sanctum Spell. Also Dragonsblood Pool, a special location in CMage. Mix a few of these until you can find something you can convince your DM counts as the ability to cast 3rd level arcane spells. :smalltongue:

You say the monsters have been reworked. Are you still stuck with LA? If you are, it is going to take quite a bit to get you the skill ranks SubChord requires.

nekomata2
2010-01-25, 03:09 PM
Yeah, as a Succubus, you want your 9th level casting to come from Sublime Chord.

Take a look at the feats Heighten Spell, Versatile Spellcaster, Precocious Apprentice and Sanctum Spell. Also Dragonsblood Pool, a special location in CMage. Mix a few of these until you can find something you can convince your DM counts as the ability to cast 3rd level arcane spells. :smalltongue:

You say the monsters have been reworked. Are you still stuck with LA? If you are, it is going to take quite a bit to get you the skill ranks SubChord requires.

No, 8 levels of Succubus clears the whole thing, no monster in our party has LA, works much better with our all monster party, though the half-clay golem dwarf never had any to begin with...

Besides that, my pretty much doesn't say no, so if I can convince myself it works, she'll pretty much be OK with it. Besides, now that I think about it, wasn't there a Sage Ruling to the general effect of "this works".

Edit: Maybe I imagined that, I can't seem to find it...
Double Edit: Unfortunately, just Precocious Apprentice and Sanctum spell isn't enough, since P.A. requires you to be both a first level caster and 1st level character.

Kylarra
2010-01-25, 03:21 PM
Take those feats, one level in bard(you need bardic music for sublime chord), followed by one level of sublime chord.

Then, take one level of ur priest and DMM.

Follow it up with 9 levels of Mystic Theurge. Congrats, dual 9s in 12 levels.

Disclaimer: It does eat what, five feats?Gotta switch up ur-priest and sublime chord, since you can't take SC until 11th level due to skill reqs.

The "simplest" way to just get 9th level casting is DivCrusader, but you'll really want to take other PrCs to advance the casting since you've already got all the outsider traits DC would give you pretty much. The problem is, you're probably evil, which outs most of the usual tricks.

nekomata2
2010-01-25, 03:34 PM
After looking at all those feats, it looks like it could work like this:

lvl 1: Heighten Spell
lvl 3: Sanctum Spell
lvl 6: ......
lvl 9: Versatile Spellcaster
I just wanna confirm how this works: say I'm doing it to mage armor.

I cast a full round Heightened( to 2) Sanctum Mage armor, sacrificing 2 spell slots for the 2nd lvl slot the spell takes, and Sanctum then bumps it to 3rd lvl.

Eldariel
2010-01-25, 03:40 PM
You can just use Dragonsblood Pool (Magical Location in Complete Mage) with one level in a casting class, and Sanctum Spell. Sanctum Spell lets you cast level 2 spells granting you the ability to use Dragonsblood Pool. Then, Dragonsblood Pool gives you a level 2 slot; Sanctum Spell then lets you cast level 3 spells from that level 2 slots.

Trick from our very own Doc Roc. He named it "Jacob's Ladder".

faceroll
2010-01-25, 03:42 PM
Easy metamagic, sanctum spell, heighten spell, and earth spell gets you +4 to spell level. Use uncanny forethought to spontaneously turn that into any spell you know as a full action. Wizard 3 castng teleport out of 2nd level spots spontaneously.

sofawall
2010-01-25, 04:03 PM
half-clay golem dwarf

What ECL did you come up with for half-clay golem? It has a listed LA of LA:- after all.

nekomata2
2010-01-25, 04:04 PM
Easy metamagic, sanctum spell, heighten spell, and earth spell gets you +4 to spell level. Use uncanny forethought to spontaneously turn that into any spell you know as a full action. Wizard 3 castng teleport out of 2nd level spots spontaneously.

I get teleport as an at will SLA :smallbiggrin: I know its just an example, but....:smallcool:

And earth spell requires earth sense, I don't have that many feats. As for the pool, I'm not sure magical locations will fly, but I could probably write it into my backstory... Hmm, I might be able to get flaws if I need them...

faceroll
2010-01-25, 04:07 PM
Yeah, you need a lot of feats. If you spend your WBL on feats (otyugh hole gives you a feat for like 3k), and then reshuffle it into something you want, you get all the feats money can buy.

nekomata2
2010-01-25, 04:11 PM
I don't have so little disrespect for myself as to use the Dark Chaos Shuffle, that just makes me feel dirty. I don't mind having to essentially gives up most of my feats for 9th lvl casting, but DCS....no.

Eldariel
2010-01-25, 04:20 PM
I don't have so little disrespect for myself as to use the Dark Chaos Shuffle, that just makes me feel dirty. I don't mind having to essentially gives up most of my feats for 9th lvl casting, but DCS....no.

You need exactly one feat. Sanctum Spell. Then you use Dragonsblood Pool and 1 level of Bard and Sublime Chord into level 9 spells. Depending on your previous levels, you could even get double nines with Ur-Priest+Sublime Chord+Mystic Theurge. PAO is the other way, but that's wrong.

nekomata2
2010-01-25, 05:07 PM
You need exactly one feat. Sanctum Spell. Then you use Dragonsblood Pool and 1 level of Bard and Sublime Chord into level 9 spells. Depending on your previous levels, you could even get double nines with Ur-Priest+Sublime Chord+Mystic Theurge. PAO is the other way, but that's wrong.

I think I'd like to avoid using locations, because they aren't permanent. Using a feat heavy option though, I doubt I'll be able to do double-9s, since Ur-Priest requires 2 feats of its own.

faceroll
2010-01-25, 05:10 PM
I think I'd like to avoid using locations, because they aren't permanent. Using a feat heavy option though, I doubt I'll be able to do double-9s, since Ur-Priest requires 2 feats of its own.

Your first level of sublime chord meets the classes on prereqs.

nekomata2
2010-01-25, 05:15 PM
Your first level of sublime chord meets the classes on prereqs.

I don't understand that...on a side note, I realized my caster level would be terrible...

faceroll
2010-01-25, 05:18 PM
I don't understand that...on a side note, I realized my caster level would be terrible...

You only need sanctum spell to get into Sublime Chord, to get 3rd level spells. Once you take your first level of sublime chord, you get 4th level spells. You no longer have to rely on location.

sofawall
2010-01-25, 05:24 PM
You only need sanctum spell to get into Sublime Chord, to get 3rd level spells. Once you take your first level of sublime chord, you get 4th level spells. You no longer have to rely on location.

These numbers are not the same.

Eldariel
2010-01-25, 05:45 PM
These numbers are not the same.

Sanctum Spell also allows you to cast spells one level lower than normal.

Lycanthromancer
2010-01-25, 05:48 PM
These numbers are not the same.Most casters are fully capable of casting lower level spells with higher level slots, even without metamagic.

Only have one 9th level slot? You can still use it to cast prestidigitation mini-wish.

faceroll
2010-01-25, 06:10 PM
Sanctum Spell also allows you to cast spells one level lower than normal.

Thus the beauty of the early entry trick.

sofawall
2010-01-25, 06:25 PM
Most casters are fully capable of casting lower level spells with higher level slots, even without metamagic.

Only have one 9th level slot? You can still use it to cast prestidigitation mini-wish.

Funny thing. They don't have any third level spells known. Although Sanctum spell does resolve that issue.

nekomata2
2010-01-25, 06:33 PM
Ah, I understand, thats a funny trick. So beyond Song of Arcane Power and practiced spellcaster, any ways to get my caster level high enough to make the effects from my spells better (I'm not as worried about saves).

Eldariel
2010-01-25, 06:36 PM
Ah, I understand, thats a funny trick. So beyond Song of Arcane Power and practiced spellcaster, any ways to get my caster level high enough to make the effects from my spells better (I'm not as worried about saves).

Those two should get you quite far. Playing a Krau-Sigil Illumian would get you to HD-3 for base CL, making you already-not-hopeless. You can UMD Beads of Karma for further increase.

nekomata2
2010-01-25, 06:43 PM
Race is pretty set in stone...Succubus and all...beads might work, but are fairly out of my price range for now.

Eldariel
2010-01-25, 06:45 PM
Race is pretty set in stone...Succubus and all...beads might work, but are fairly out of my price range for now.

...well then, I suppose you could use certain...err, quite potent means of upping your CL or be stuck with what you can generate right now. Though since full Song + Practiced means you're 1 point below average for your level, it's not that bad.