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Doomboy911
2010-01-25, 04:09 PM
The way I look at playing dungeons and dragons you need to look at what you have and run with it. If you're a wizard you prepare powerful spells and fight, if you're a fighter you grab the best weapon and prepare to duke it out but when you're the bard you can't really grab a powerful spell or fight all that well you do both. Now I want to know how do play as the bard. For me I have the clever trick of casting greater invisibility,silent image and ghost sound (All low spells) send my copy in with sound and use my sling to throw rocks as the image punches.Than as they fight back I make the image react accordingly maybe have him duck when punched or act like he's been hit. So I want to know how do my fellow low level bards do their best?

nekomata2
2010-01-25, 04:15 PM
I believe there are 3 general ways to build a good bard, or rather 2 1/2. 1) is optimize inspire courage (song of the heart, a spell, one of the pieces of the Regalia of the Hero from MiC), or at least dip in Sublime Chord to eventually get 9th level spells. The half is the feat Snowflake Wardance from Frostburn, which lets you dance to get Cha to attacks.

There is also a magic item from the DMG2 called Slippers of Battledancing, where if you move at least 10ft in a round you get Cha to attack and damage.

Beorn080
2010-01-25, 04:16 PM
Find pit. Use silent image to make a floor over the pit. Find group of foes. Get them to chase you. Run to pit, turn invisible, and press self against wall. Dodge thrown dice.

Optimystik
2010-01-25, 04:17 PM
If sheer power is your goal, turn your Bard into a sorcerer with the Sublime Chord PrC (CArc) and get 9th-level spells in 9 levels. Combine with Dracolexi for cool effects.

If outperforming other Bards is your thing instead, try Virtuoso (CAdv).

If combat is your thing instead, Dragonfire Inspiration.

Lord Bingo
2010-01-25, 05:18 PM
Instead of buffing your friends you might focus on debuffing your enemies. It is often easier to blind an enemy as opposed to improving the sight of all your friends.

Optimystik
2010-01-25, 05:27 PM
Instead of buffing your friends you might focus on debuffing your enemies. It is often easier to blind an enemy as opposed to improving the sight of all your friends.

As your friends generally won't save and will lower their SR for you, this is debatable.

You can also prebuff your friends, but debuffing enemies tends to happen after combat has already started.

Swooper
2010-01-25, 05:54 PM
Bard can be optimised pretty hard if you know your sources. Depending on what you want to do with it, the following might be useful:

Melee build:
-Snowflake Wardance (Frostburn)
-Dragonfire Inspiration (Dragon Magic)
-Two level dip into Arcane Duelist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a) for cha to AC - a bit harsh to qualify for though
-Two level dip into Paladin (of Freedom) for cha to saves
-Dip into Warblade or Crusader and take Song of the White Raven
-Grab Slippers of Battledancing (DMG2 - expensive but worth it) and a Crystal Echoblade (MIC) - then enhance the sword further with stuff like Spellstoring, Sudden Stunning (or Stunning Surge) and Harmonizing.
-Whirling Blade (SpC)

Caster build:
-Melodic Casting (CMage)
-Sublime Chord (CArcane) for sorcerer style casting - feel free to use another PrC to advance it after the first two levels or so (Virtuoso is good, though it loses a CL at 1st level)

Generic bard stuff:
-Lingering Song (CAdventurer)
-Song of the Heart (Eberron Campaign Setting)
-Words of Creation (Book of Exalted Deeds)
-Inspirational Boost (Spell Compendium)
-Chaos Music (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Chaos_Music,all) if you're multiclassing a lot
-Vest of Legends (DMG2)


...Did I miss anything? :smallamused:

Doomboy911
2010-01-25, 05:55 PM
Well I'm wondering more about what you do as an average bard. I do like the wardance still what do you do as a bard.

Kantolin
2010-01-25, 06:13 PM
Warchanter from Complete Warrior is a good pick for a melee bard.

Seeker of the Song, while far from optimal, has its gems.

Doomboy911
2010-01-25, 10:39 PM
I suppose I'm looking more for stories. When you played the bard how did you do great things. One time I protected a whole city from bandits by "summoning" a tiamat with silent image and a really loud friend. So what have you done as a bard?

DSCrankshaw
2010-01-26, 01:23 AM
You might want to specify 3e in the title and OP. 4e bards are quite different (and not the least underpowered).

erikun
2010-01-26, 01:59 AM
Bard/Warblade with Song of the White Raven feat? Use your bardic music while still remaining in combat. I would assume that you can keep maintaining the bardic music in the same way, but perhaps that is just me applying logic to D&D again...

Doomboy911
2010-01-26, 06:20 AM
My mistake we're playing 3.5 .

Vaynor
2010-01-26, 06:37 AM
-Two level dip into Arcane Duelist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a) for cha to AC - a bit harsh to qualify for though

...Did I miss anything? :smallamused:

Yes, you did, but it's a small thing. You can get Cha to AC from the Battle Dancer class in the Dragon Compendium. It's similar to the monk, but uses Charisma instead of Wisdom. Also gives Improved Unarmed Strike, as if that matters.

onthetown
2010-01-26, 06:47 AM
My level 20 bard is actually more effective for adventuring than any other of my characters, so I think I've mastered her.

Pick up all sorts of spells, I didn't just stick with enchantments or power; I went with enchantments and power. Spell Compendium has some cute spells. Spells are her second gig, though. Up your Perform skill and use Fascinate for all sorts of things.

We once snuck right past a red dragon and stole most of his horde because he was just sitting and swaying to the music, then managed to escape the cavern and complete the rest of the adventure.

Use lots of magic items. Make Strength and Dexterity higher than normal for spellcasters. Mine uses polearms. She is half-celestial and can fly. Quickened Daze, use the opportunity to fly up, let them cast spells and shoot arrows at her for a turn, then either cast Greater Shout or swoop down and become death from above. Use Quickened spells to heal if you really need to.

We were in an epic battle with the BBEG, one that my DM expected me to lose almost immediately because it was just the bard and the BBEG. Instead of running away for help or dying, she actually managed to keep herself alive for a full half hour and still do damage. I brought the poor guy down to half hit points (and he had a LOT, so that's a feat just on my own... he was dealing major damage). The wizard finally scried to see where she was and the cavalry charged in, ending the battle. She remained in the air for the entire battle, and adopted a pattern of quickened healing and then attacking or casting another spell.

Outside of battle, she's still fairly useful. Skills like no tomorrow, painstakingly high Charisma (from items bought with the gold from the red dragon's horde :smallamused: ), the various bardic abilities, some neat feats, extra healing when the cleric's out of spells...

And people wonder why I like bards so much. She was one of my first characters and she is wonderful. There's just so much you can do. :smallbiggrin:

Edit: This is without multiclassing or prestige classing. I've only recently taken a shining to the idea of either. :smallredface:

Devils_Advocate
2010-01-26, 05:28 PM
The Bard's natural role is as the "party face". The same Charisma score that powers his spellcasting also boosts his Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, and Gather Information modifiers. A circlet of persuasion is helpful for this role.

Social skills are underused in D&D 3.5, I think, because they were poorly implemented. Diplomacy is broken. There's a skill for lying, but trying to convince a character of the truth isn't even covered. And there was never much interest in fixing this aspect of a combat-centric game. :smallfrown:

Alternately or in addition, a bard can help to fill gaps in the party's abilities by picking up skills and spells that other characters don't have. This may allow other characters to specialize more.

qcbtnsrm
2010-01-26, 10:02 PM
I suppose I'm looking more for stories. When you played the bard how did you do great things. One time I protected a whole city from bandits by "summoning" a tiamat with silent image and a really loud friend. So what have you done as a bard?

OK, this took place around 8th-9th level. We were playing a death sport campaign, where the PCs were basically gladiators, of a sort. We ran through a contest where we had to save a lady from the monsters. Basically she was a member of a banned (but non-evil) religion and was being sacrificed ala Christians vs lions. Although we saved her from death, she was still boned, as she was set to become a slave. Unknown to me my teammate was a member of the self-same religion and asked me to intervene on her behalf.

So I went and got an audience with the local lord. I approached having already cast Glibness. Given the spell, and all the other advantages I already had, the 70 I rolled (+50 over his Sense Motive) wasn't entirely surprising. Which means I basically achieved the effect of a Suggestion spell non-magically. So despite the fact that he was an utter bastard, I was able to convince him that he was well known and loved for his mercy (he wasn't and he knew it). I was likewise able to convince him that he really was very merciful, and that all previous contrary actions were unfortunate decisions he had been forced to take by circumstance. Then came the fun part where they brought her in to be judged again. She refused to sacrifice to the state gods. But I was able to convince the lord and his judges that she had in fact completed the ritual, while she sat there objecting quite strenuously that she had done no such thing.

In the end it came off wonderfully. Even if it did resemble the Black Knight from Monty Python. Except in this case the Black Knight actually convinced Arthur that "I'm invincible!"

A prepared Bard is the very definition of, "who are you going to believe, me? or your own eyes?"

Doomboy911
2010-01-28, 09:10 PM
Now that is an awesome story. I once managed to cause a monster to come and hunt me down and fall into a trap with silent image and ghost sound.
We were in the talenta plains and this one creature who was extremely powerful would chase after us, it wasn't until we headed for the hills and found an even more powerful creature who didn't make any sense that the creature stopped running away. Now the creature that wasn't chasing us was protecting a little girl and wherever she went he would go. (The evil creature was some kind of facestealer who was after the girl) So we headed deep into the jungle and I casted silent image and ghost sound to make her copy appear and begin running into the woods away from us. The face stealer came running for us and I cancelled the illusion, knowing that he'd been duped the good creature ran back to us and killed the facestealer.

Sometimes its about manipulating the enviroment when you can't touch it.