Highest Int Bonus (3.5/PF) [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

sofawall

2010-01-25, 09:11 PM

And there are plenty of races that get +10 or more to Int. >.>

Like Black Ethergaunt, which happens to be the race that comes to mind for int bonuses.

Tanuki Tales

2010-01-25, 09:20 PM

Like Black Ethergaunt, which happens to be the race that comes to mind for int bonuses.

Except, as the first post obviously states, this is a thread about templates.

sofawall

2010-01-25, 09:25 PM

Except, as the first post obviously states, this is a thread about templates.

But the post I quoted happened to mention races :P

Fine, uhh, Phrenic. I think that gives a +2 or something.

EDIT: And that means I'm winning the race. Yay.

Actually, Monster of Legend probably gives more than that.

Irreverent Fool

2010-01-25, 09:28 PM

Elder Serpent from Dragon 313 gives +2d6 +6 int for a potential maximum of +18 intelligence.

Granted, it gives +3 LA and can only be applied to 'snake-like' animals and magical beasts that normally have average intelligence of 5 or more.

obnoxious
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Tanuki Tales

2010-01-25, 09:33 PM

But the post I quoted happened to mention races :P

Fine, uhh, Phrenic. I think that gives a +2 or something.

EDIT: And that means I'm winning the race. Yay.

Actually, Monster of Legend probably gives more than that.

MoL only gives +2 Int as well

JaronK

2010-01-25, 09:37 PM

Tanuki Tales

2010-01-25, 09:39 PM

Also not a template, but Dragonwrought Kobolds can start venerable without penalties, granting +3 Int. Half Dragon also gives +2 Int, but at +3LA it's rather pricey. There are a few Half Elemental templates with the same +2 Int/+3 LA. Gravetouched Ghoul gives +2 Int for +2 LA, so that's a little better but still not great. Half Illithids give +4 Int for +5LA. Voidmind isn't bad at +1LA and +2Int, but you're a slave to Illithids so that's probably a bad deal. A Venerable Phrenic Dragonwrought Kobold is probably your best bet at +5 Int for +1LA.

JaronK

Not really looking for just player friendly or a low LA. Just the templates that give really high Int bonuses. So far Half-Illithid is looking the best.

Edit: Though since Pathfinder is being counted, the Advanced template is also up there.

JaronK

2010-01-25, 09:44 PM

You could stack them if you like. Phrenic Half Illithid Voidmind?

JaronK

dspeyer

2010-01-25, 09:46 PM

And there are plenty of races that get +10 or more to Int. >.>

Not playable creatures in core. You need a template and a serious monster. The lowest ECL int 20 creature is the Half-Fiend Lammasu (ECL 12). If you wanted, you could stack phrenic onto it for Int 22 at ECL 14.

The epic-level handbook offers the Mercane, Int 20 at ECL 14 without templates. Whether or not lawful outsiders can beget half-fiends is left as an exercise for the reader.

Wisdom is similarly hard to come by. High charisma is a bit more prevelant, with the ecl 12 cha 26 succubus leading the pack.

Tanuki Tales

2010-01-25, 09:46 PM

You could stack them if you like. Phrenic Half Illithid Voidmind?

JaronK

Looking for a single template, since you can get nutsy boosts to nearly anything with the right stacking of templates.

Irreverent Fool

2010-01-25, 09:48 PM

Template stacking is a viable option. I support this.

Also from Dragon 313 is the 'Riddled' template. It can only be applied to true dragons but gives +6 int.

obnoxious
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Tanuki Tales

2010-01-25, 09:51 PM

Not playable creatures in core. You need a template and a serious monster. The lowest ECL int 20 creature is the Half-Fiend Lammasu (ECL 12). If you wanted, you could stack phrenic onto it for Int 22 at ECL 14.

The epic-level handbook offers the Mercane, Int 20 at ECL 14 without templates. Whether or not lawful outsiders can beget half-fiends is left as an exercise for the reader.

Wisdom is similarly hard to come by. High charisma is a bit more prevelant, with the ecl 12 cha 26 succubus leading the pack.

Not looking for races and specifically said no epic stuff.

Edit:
@Fool: Riddled is in the lead with +6 to Int

Irreverent Fool

2010-01-25, 09:57 PM

Not looking for races and specifically said no epic stuff.

Edit:
@Fool: Riddled is in the lead with +6 to Int

As a bonus, the template makes the dragon's spells and spell DC based on intelligence rather than charisma. Most of the details are on CrystalKeep if you need them.

While I understand your issue with template stacking, you could easily apply another without seeming corny here. 'Riddled' dragons are pretty much only mentally changed.

Spellwarped from Monster Manual 3 grants a +4.

obnoxious
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Ashiel

2010-01-25, 11:00 PM

I'm rather fond of the Half-Fiend (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/halfFiend.htm) template. It's only a +4 LA and grants some nice benefits, including a +4 intelligence, and some spell-like abilities which get better as you level.

It's also core, which makes it even easier to deal with (in terms of book-keeping or communication with different groups).

PlzBreakMyCmpAn

2010-01-26, 01:37 AM

from Dragon 313 is the 'Riddled' template. It can only be applied to true dragons but gives +6 intNo LA Given... so no go

arguskos

2010-01-26, 02:36 AM

Um... did everyone miss the +2d6+6 Int template posted above? I mean, Elder Serpent sounds like the most Int-happy template possible. Sounds like that should really be the winner here, since I can't think of anything that gets +8 or better to Int.

sonofzeal

2010-01-26, 03:03 AM

Paragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/paragonCreature.htm) gives a +15 Int. Among other things.
Ah right, non-epic. Shucks....

sonofzeal

2010-01-26, 03:09 AM

Half-Fiend (+4)
Lemorian (+4)
Half-Dragon can give +5 if you allow draconic age categories.
Spectral (+4)
Half-Illithid (+4)
Riddled (+6)
Spellwarped (+4)
Elder Serpent (+2d6+6)

....that looks like it, for non-epic.

2xMachina

2010-01-26, 05:46 AM

... Riddled Dragonwrought Venerable Kobold... +9Int...

Or can it have 2 Psychosis? Spellhoarding Riddled Dragonwrought Venerable Kobold. +11Int.

sonofzeal

2010-01-26, 01:35 PM

Technically, a Maximized Awaken could get you +18 Int, depending on the target...

FMArthur

2010-01-26, 03:53 PM

Can Elder Serpent be applied to an awakened snake? That would produce an ECL 6 creature with up to 36 Int...

Irreverent Fool

2010-01-26, 05:55 PM

Can Elder Serpent be applied to an awakened snake? That would produce an ECL 6 creature with up to 36 Int...

As long as it's considered an animal or magical beast, which I believe it is, then yes.

No LA Given... so no go

OP said he wasn't looking for low LA or player-friendly stuff.

obnoxious
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PlzBreakMyCmpAn

2010-01-27, 02:58 AM

OP said he wasn't looking for low LA or player-friendly stuff.Well if he's the DM he has much better ways of getting high INT...

Irreverent Fool

2010-01-27, 03:05 AM

Well if he's the DM he has much better ways of getting high INT...

True, but many DMs like to play within the rules set and derive joy and satisfaction with using the pre-existing rules to create what they wanted. Why? I have no idea in the OPs case.

In my own case, I blame it on games like Magic: the Gathering and the drive to find those funny/killer combos.

But I digress.

Arguably, since 'Riddled' doesn't alter the CR (it comes with some penalties), it doesn't need an LA. It's dragon-only, remember. If you're playing a true dragon already, chances are that 'Riddled' isn't going to make you all that much more powerful.

obnoxious
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2xMachina

2010-01-27, 03:15 AM

^ Dragonwrought Kobolds.

EDIT: BTW, Elder Serpent can only be applied on something below 5 Int.

PlzBreakMyCmpAn

2010-01-30, 09:40 PM

Arguably, since 'Riddled' doesn't alter the CR (it comes with some penalties), it doesn't need an LA. Makes sense. I would rule that was as a DM. Its a shame there is no such ruling...

nargbop

2010-01-30, 10:36 PM

Have a Druid who's gained turning through some method use Divine Metamagic ( Maximize ) to grant an animal +18 INT. Then the question is finding the highest-INT entry in the Monster Manuals that's technically an Animal. No Magical Beasts, got to be Animal.

Spellwarped is FUN to play. It's not technically a playable template ( it's +3 CR and no given LA ), but if you can get your DM to agree you get to be a nigh-impervious spell absorber. Only drawback - raising and lowering SR is a free action so you can't be healed or buffed by others in the midst of combat without significant planning.

Lycanthromancer

2010-01-30, 10:51 PM

^ Dragonwrought Kobolds.

EDIT: BTW, Elder Serpent can only be applied on something below 5 Int.Maximized Empowered awaken animal. Baleful polymorph. Elder serpent. Dismiss baleful polymorph.

Yes?

John Campbell

2010-01-31, 04:30 AM

Have a Druid who's gained turning through some method use Divine Metamagic ( Maximize ) to grant an animal +18 INT. Then the question is finding the highest-INT entry in the Monster Manuals that's technically an Animal. No Magical Beasts, got to be Animal.

I believe Animals, by definition, have Int 2 or lower. If its Int rises above 2, it's no longer an Animal; it's a Magical Beast.

PhoenixRivers

2010-01-31, 05:07 AM

I believe Animals, by definition, have Int 2 or lower. If its Int rises above 2, it's no longer an Animal; it's a Magical Beast.

Incorrect. Otherwise, a Fox's Cunning would be able to change animal type.

All animals start with 1-2 int. That doesn't mean that they can't get smarter without losing that.

John Campbell

2010-01-31, 01:39 PM

Fox's cunning doesn't increase the actual Intelligence score; it only provides a temporary bonus. Not even continuous sources of it, like headbands of intellect - you don't get skill points from them.

An animal possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature's entry).
Intelligence score of 1 or 2 (no creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher can be an animal).
and

Magical beasts are similar to animals but can have Intelligence scores higher than 2.

And awaken explicitly changes the creature type to Magical Beast.