HAPPY WINTER-EEN-MAS!!!!! i think

[AkazilliaDeNaro]

uhm happy winter-een-mas!?
if you dont know what winter-een-mas is. google it
if you do and it is today then celebrate
if for some very beliveable reason it is not today or your not supposed to celebrate it here please tell me.
hopefully im right and i can say this HAPPY WINTER-EEN-MAS!!!!

[Xyk]

I'm like 85% sure that's a multi-day holiday. I think it lasts a week. Does it start today? If so, I'll have to go bust out the PS2.

[Icewalker]

Luckily I just bought both Assassin's Creed games. So I'm set.

[loopy]

I just can't bring myself to be enthusiastic about any holiday that Tim Buckley created, no matter how relevant to my interests it may be.

[Yarram]

I just can't bring myself to be enthusiastic about any holiday that Tim Buckley created, no matter how relevant to my interests it may be.

On one hand I don't... On the other hand, my computer crashed when I tried to say, "We don't believe in Holidays made by other webcomics here."
Is is a divine sign?
Or was my battery just at 2% anyway?

The latter seems far more likely.

[Ninja Chocobo]

Ctrl-Alt-Delete is a bad webcomic hope this helps.

e: Happy Miscarriagemas* and a happy B^U year.
*Alternate titles: Winter Enemas, Decemberween.

[Ikialev]

B^U
This, what does it mean?

Also, it's CAD. Therefore, nothing to celebrate.

[Nameless]

CAD isn’t a bad web-comic. CAD was a good comic that became not as good over time. People slag it for similar reasons some Metalheads slag popular bands.

Happy Winter-een-mas!

@^: It's the CAD face expression.

[T-O-E]

CAD isn’t a bad web-comic. CAD was a good comic that became not as good over time. People slag it for similar reasons some Metalheads slag popular bands.

If CAD is good, then what is bad, or abominable? The very idea is horrifying.

[Nameless]

If CAD is good, then what is bad, or abominable? The very idea is horrifying.

I've seen and read bad comics, horrible comics, and they don't get half the grief Tim get's for CAD.

[BisectedBrioche]

What Nameless said, really. I've never been given an argument as to why it's "bad" beyond "[aspect] is bad" without any elaboration. I've seen far worse webcomics, in any case and I don't care enough about what webcomics other people read to even begin to comprehend why anyone would do so.

I will however state (from a purely academical perspective :smalltongue:) that I suspect the root of its hatedom originates from when Penny Arcade (a webcomic which I love, just FYI) started singling out one of the many "two gamers on a couch" comics (more specifically one that appeared some time after the phenomenon was being recognised) that appeared in its wake.

[BRC]

CAD isn't a bad webcomic, it's just more popular than it deserves, leading to Hatedom. It's also the way Buckley has a habit of trying to mimic Penny Arcade in many subtle ways unrelated to the "Two gamers on a couch" format (The unnecessary hyphen in the title, having the main page of the website be the blog instead of the comic, ect).
It also started out alot better than it is, leading to a Hatedom, people who read it because they got into the habit back when it was better (Or read through the archives), but hate the way it's been recently. A simply bad webcomic doesn't get a hatedom, because people don't read it. To achieve a hatedom of the level CAD has achieved people need to read your comic, hate it, and then keep reading it.

[Nameless]

What Nameless said, really. I've never been given an argument as to why it's "bad" beyond "[aspect] is bad" without any elaboration. I've seen far worse webcomics, in any case and I don't care enough about what webcomics other people read to even begin to comprehend why anyone would do so.

I will however state (from a purely academical perspective :smalltongue:) that I suspect the root of its hatedom originates from when Penny Arcade (a webcomic which I love, just FYI) started singling out one of the many "two gamers on a couch" comics (more specifically one that appeared some time after the phenomenon was being recognised) that appeared in its wake.

Someone actually used the argument "Because the human anatomy isn't accurate." for why CAD sucks.

[Ninja Chocobo]

The objection with CAD is that despite the author putting very little effort into it, it still makes enough money for the author to live off, while good webcomics suffer. It's not a terrible webcomic, sure, but it's certainly bad, and is far more popular than it deserves.

e: Also because of misogyny (http://refried.timtekindustries.com/index.php?comicID=58)*. And because the main character is a massive self-insert man-child; and everyone puts up with his crap but he's not expected to deal with anyone else's.
*There are many many more examples, but this one is convenient.

[T-O-E]

Also the thousands of rumours about Buckley's person, and the fact that he bans all negative criticism on his forum.

[Maximum Zersk]

Haven't we gone through this before earlier this winter? To those of you who don't know, Roland closed the thread. So, I'm wondering if this's allowed.

[BisectedBrioche]

The objection with CAD is that despite the author putting very little effort into it, it still makes enough money for the author to live off, while good webcomics suffer. It's not a terrible webcomic, sure, but it's certainly bad, and is far more popular than it deserves.

e: Also because of misogyny (http://refried.timtekindustries.com/index.php?comicID=58)*. And because the main character is a massive self-insert man-child; and everyone puts up with his crap but he's not expected to deal with anyone else's.
*There are many many more examples, but this one is convenient.

I'd argue that the problem there is that someone's trying to assign the morality of drama to something that's supposed to be humour.

Cases in point; Phillip J. Fry, Edmund Blackadder. Neither is pleasant. The works they appear in wouldn't be anywhere near as funny without their presence. The comic is no more guilty of misgyny than OotS is for Hayley's "wardrobe malfunction".

I could argue that any piece of fiction on the planet is misogynic. Up to and including the works of feminist authors.

BTW, how do "good" webcomics suffer for it's presence? It's hardly as if everyone's limited to reading one webcomic at any given time.

[Ninja Chocobo]

I'd argue that the problem there is that someone's trying to assign the morality of drama to something that's supposed to be humour.

Y'might wanna tell him that, as it's been drama for at least two years now.


Cases in point; Phillip J. Fry, Edmund Blackadder. Neither is pleasant. The works they appear in wouldn't be anywhere near as funny without their presence.

There is a difference. These characters occasionally face the consequences for their actions.

[Fuzzie Fuzz]

I like CAD...

Seriously though, it's funny throughout the drama, the characters are real-ish, or at least have individual personalities. Also, how do you know that the author puts very little effort into it? Do you draw a multi-panel comic every few days? One that looks good and remains decently amusing, at least? I didn't think so. It does have its occasional misogynistic moments, but so does everything else, including OotS. Yes, the main character is a "massive self-insert man-child," but why is that inherently wrong? It's funny to see a child in a man's body trying to live in an adult world. And he does occasionally have consequences for his actions, which frequently end up hilariously. How having people like this comic hurts other comics is unclear to me. As for the mockery of PA, while there is the obvious two-gamers on a couch thing (which they themselves make fun of themselves for), there is, as BRC said, "the unnecessary hyphen in the title [and] having the main page of the website be the blog instead of the comic." Firstly, the hyphen is just stupid. What's wrong with hyphens? Lots of websites have hyphens. Secondly, lots of websites, and webcomics, have blogs on the main page. Let's see, ever heard of a website called www.giantitp.com (http://www.giantitp.com)?

Well, I think that Webcomic Rant #3 covered just about every complaint covered in this thread. If you have any others, let me know and I'll rebut you.

[Ninja Chocobo]

Also, how do you know that the author puts very little effort into it? Do you draw a multi-panel comic every few days? One that looks good and remains decently amusing, at least? I didn't think so.

I don't. And neither does Buckley, but that's not the point. However, Mike Krahulik and Jerry Holkins (http://www.penny-arcade.com/)*, Kate Beaton (http://www.harkavagrant.com/index.php)*, Andrew Hussie (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/)*, KC Green (http://gunshowcomic.com/)*, Tom Siddell (http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/index2.php), Katie Tiedrich (http://www.awkwardzombie.com/comic1.php), Zach Weiner (http://www.smbc-comics.com/#comic)*, and Chris Hastings (http://drmcninja.com/), do.
*Caution: Coarse language, adult themes.

[Fuzzie Fuzz]

I don't. And neither does Buckley, but that's not the point. However, Mike Krahulik and Jerry Holkins (http://www.penny-arcade.com/)*, Kate Beaton (http://www.harkavagrant.com/index.php)*, Andrew Hussie (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/)*, KC Green (http://gunshowcomic.com/)*, Tom Siddell (http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/index2.php), Katie Tiedrich (http://www.awkwardzombie.com/comic1.php), Zach Weiner (http://www.smbc-comics.com/#comic)*, and Chris Hastings (http://drmcninja.com/), do.
*Caution: Coarse language, adult themes.

And they, like Buckley, put effort into their creations. The fact that people write comics doesn't really help your point that Tim puts, "little effort into it."

[Ninja Chocobo]

And they, like Buckley, put effort into their creations. The fact that people write comics doesn't really help your point that Tim puts, "little effort into it."

It's just so exhausting moving my finger from the C key to the V key.

[Darklord Bright]

Listen, one does not need to have to draw better to be able to criticize, that's a logical fallacy. Similarly, a critic does not need to be able to "Direct a better movie" to know if one is bad or not.

Edit: Now listen, it is definitely a bad idea to discuss this topic further. We've already had things locked because of this topic.

[Fuzzie Fuzz]

Erm... he draws each panel by hand (or at least, with a graphics program). And I wasn't saying you have to be able to do better, you just can't say that he doesn't put effort into it.

And consider it dropped.

So... how about that Monster in the Darkness? :smallwink:

[Darklord Bright]

Erm... he draws each panel by hand (or at least, with a graphics program). And I wasn't saying you have to be able to do better, you just can't say that he doesn't put effort into it.

And consider it dropped.

So... how about that Monster in the Darkness? :smallwink:

Just thought I should mention that it's known that he drag and drops pre-drawn bodyparts and faces onto his comics to make the images... with a 3000 dollar tablet.

[DraPrime]

Just thought I should mention that it's known that he drag and drops pre-drawn bodyparts and faces onto his comics to make the images... with a 3000 dollar tablet.

I think someone even put together a really fast clip of pictures of Ethan that loops over and over again. You can see that he pretty much is copy/pasted almost every time. It's weirdly creepy how stiff he looks.

[Fuzzie Fuzz]

...So? How's that any worse than using the same body part templates in OotS? I really don't think copying and pasting individual body parts is an issue, especially since he uses backgrounds and stuff. Honestly, I'm not trying to diss OotS, it's one of my favorite comics, but how one can complain about graphics on a fan-site for a stick-figure comic is beyond me.

Alright, alright!

[Ninja Chocobo]

...So? How's that any worse than using the same body part templates in OotS? I really don't think copying and pasting individual body parts is an issue, especially since he uses backgrounds and stuff.

Art does not make a comic good! Consider Daily Dinosaur Comics (http://www.qwantz.com/index.php), who have used the same image for going on seven years now. It is a good comic because it is very nearly always hilarious.

And a lot of his "backgrounds" consist of GIS plus Gaussian Blur.

[Fuzzie Fuzz]

Then what's the complaint with copy 'n' paste? You say that he doesn't put effort into his work because he copies poses, but then you say the art doesn't matter. :smallconfused:

[Ninja Chocobo]

Then what's the complaint with copy 'n' paste? You say that he doesn't put effort into his work because he copies poses, but then you say the art doesn't matter. :smallconfused:

No, my point was that good writing can excuse bad, or at least repetitive artwork. Buckers has neither good writing nor good artwork.

[Fuzzie Fuzz]

I would argue that he does have good, if repetitive artwork, as well as good writing. And here's where the debate breaks down. It all comes down to, "I like x about CAD." "I don't." So let's agree to disagree. Even though I'm right. :smalltongue:

[Ninja Chocobo]

I would argue that he does have good, if repetitive artwork, as well as good writing. And here's where the debate breaks down. It all comes down to, "I like x about CAD." "I don't." So let's agree to disagree. Even though I'm right. :smalltongue:

The Bad Webcomics Blog expressed my points far better than me. It's a shame it's not on the internet any more.

Anyway, at least promise you'll check out the other, infinitely better, webcomics I linked previously. Also Nedroid (http://nedroid.com/).

[Felixaar]

Children, go play on the Webcomics discussion forums. This thread is for people who wish to enjoy and celebrate Winter-een-mass.

That will be all.

[Icewalker]

Yep, I'm with Felix on this one. Regardless of any other opinions one way or another about CAD, Winter-Een-Mas is a fun holiday setup. I'd celebrate it, if I wasn't too lazy and wrapped up in other projects to do serious gaming.

[Lord of Rapture]

The Bad Webcomics Blog expressed my points far better than me. It's a shame it's not on the internet any more.

Anyway, at least promise you'll check out the other, infinitely better, webcomics I linked previously. Also Nedroid (http://nedroid.com/).

Ugh, bringing John Solomon into your debate is just going to hurt your case.

In any case, I don't like CAD because I feel that its characters and humor are actually declining in quality over the years and Tim Buckley is too wrapped up in his own success and ego to care. It used to be pretty funny, now its just dull.

But whatever, this belongs in the webcomic section anyway. Imma shutting up now.

[Fuzzie Fuzz]

The Bad Webcomics Blog expressed my points far better than me. It's a shame it's not on the internet any more.

Anyway, at least promise you'll check out the other, infinitely better, webcomics I linked previously. Also Nedroid (http://nedroid.com/).

Oh, trust me. I do read almost all of those, and love them immensely. I just happen to also like me some CAD. (Highbrow's good, but sometimes you just want a popcorn flick. Or strip, as the case may be.)

Aaaaand I'm done.

[Warpfire]

The objection with CAD is that despite the author putting very little effort into it, it still makes enough money for the author to live off, while good webcomics suffer. It's not a terrible webcomic, sure, but it's certainly bad, and is far more popular than it deserves.

e: Also because of misogyny (http://refried.timtekindustries.com/index.php?comicID=58)*. And because the main character is a massive self-insert man-child; and everyone puts up with his crap but he's not expected to deal with anyone else's.
*There are many many more examples, but this one is convenient.

Well, I hate CAD as much as the next guy, but I have to say I don't really see what's so sexist about not being attracted to overweight women. The storyline is still incredibly retarded but I don't really see how you can call someone sexist for not being physically attracted to a particular woman.

[zeratul]

Does anyone else find it mildly amusing annoying that whenever anyone tries to start a CAD or wintereenmas related thread it always turns into "zomg CAD sucks!" thread after about five seconds?

[Boo]

Does anyone else find it mildly amusing annoying that whenever anyone tries to start a CAD or wintereenmas related thread it always turns into "zomg CAD sucks!" thread after about five seconds?

I don't know about you, but I'm enjoying my popcorn.