Must-Have Items for Casters

[Defiant]

Fluff: I am currently DMing a game right now and my players are about to face against an enemy they're not supposed to win. This is a caster that is several levels higher than them, and the encounter (and aftermath) will be largely plot-related. No, they're not going to get killed by the caster, but they will be captured and interrogated, and learn the lesson that they can't kill anything they want in this world.

However, I noticed how one of the casters in the party has "web" and it would be embarrassingly likely for the powerful caster to get locked down easy, unless she ended up preparing stilled get-away spells (which she might have, but again, a mere winning in any way other than ridiculously easy would also be embarrassing for the caster herself). I then realized that she could easily have the ring of Freedom of Movement, one that is often touted around these forums. But then that got me thinking.

Crunch: What items are pretty much must-haves for casters (or for players in general, with enough gold)? And by this, I don't mean ability-boosting items, skill-boosting, or rods. I mean wondrous items, or items that grant a continuous spell ability. Freedom of movement is one (or is it?) for casters not getting locked down by a simple spell, or paralysis, or grapple, for example.

[Keld Denar]

MIC has a few, including my favorite Circlet of Rapid Casting. Circlet is like a MM Rod of Quicken, but less than 1/2 the cost, slightly less powerful, but more versatile. It has 3 charges and for 1 charge, you can quicken any 1st or 2nd level spell. For 2, you can quicken a 3rd level spell, and for 3, you can quicken a 4th level spell, something the MM Rod doesn't let you do.

At 15,000g, its one I try to get on every caster around level 10 or so.

[FinalJustice]

Some form of Deathward is pretty mandatory to me. I, personally, am fond of the Soulfire enchantment for armor from BoED. No wizard worth his salt will be taking negative levels.

Countermeasures to dispel are also a must for any caster. From the old core Ring of Counterspelling from the CMage's Ring of Enduring Arcana (+4CL for dispelling purposes), they are important.

And no one can go wrong with CL increasing itens. Ring of Arcane Might, Ioun Stone, Create Magic Tatoo. I'd go further by saying that itens that improve central class features are usually 'must have'. Most warlocks tout a Warlock Sceptre around, for instance.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Anklets of Translocation are swift-action teleport 2x/day for 2K. Heward's Handy Haversack is necessary for anyone that has less than 20 Str. Heward's Fortifying Bedroll lets arcanists keep going through the occasional endurance match. Belt of Battle is free actions for anyone that wants them. Crown of the White Raven is 3k for basically auto-success on one save once per combat for anyone with Concentration. There are others, of course, but that's just what came to mind.

[Xenogears]

Feathered Wings Graft from Fiend Folio is great if hes worried about Anti-Magic Fields. 2X speed flying. Non-magical. 10k GP.

More useful for non-casters though. Also works best with evil people. Or good people with immunity to ability damage. Or nuetral people who can't fail will saves.

[Cybren]

Fluff: I am currently DMing a game right now and my players are about to face against an enemy they're not supposed to win. This is a caster that is several levels higher than them, and the encounter (and aftermath) will be largely plot-related. No, they're not going to get killed by the caster, but they will be captured and interrogated, and learn the lesson that they can't kill anything they want in this world.

Why?

Loading the enemy up with magic items is fine to make them harder...unless they win anyway

[Xenogears]

Why?

Loading the enemy up with magic items is fine to make them harder...unless they win anyway

If the Players defeat a CR=Party ECL+lots encounter that has Heaps of magic gear to make him even harder than by god they deserve that loot.

[Draz74]

Crown of the White Raven Ring of the Diamond Mind is 3k for basically auto-success on one save once per combat for anyone with Concentration. There are others, of course, but that's just what came to mind.

Fixed that for you.

[Defiant]

Why?

Loading the enemy up with magic items is fine to make them harder...unless they win anyway

Why what?

I will, of course, play it out by D&D standards fairly, but we're talking about an unoptimized group centering around tier 4 going up against an optimized wizard 7 levels higher than them.

I'm not doing it to "punish" the players in any way. It's just part of the story and plot. This wizard will not pummel them. She will neutralize them to prepare for questioning.

[Xenogears]

Why what?

I will, of course, play it out by D&D standards fairly, but we're talking about an unoptimized group centering around tier 4 going up against an optimized wizard 7 levels higher than them.

I'm not doing it to "punish" the players in any way. It's just part of the story and plot. This wizard will not pummel them. She will neutralize them to prepare for questioning.

I got the impression they were saying something about the party winning despite all odds and gaining sweet sweet overpowered loot. I could be wrong though.

[Defiant]

I got the impression they were saying something about the party winning despite all odds and gaining sweet sweet overpowered loot. I could be wrong though.

Well there would be like a 25% chance of a failed reflex save against the web, coupled with whatever they could throw at her. It just seems too likely and too stupid if it did happen (especially for the wizard, who thinks very highly of herself).

[Xenogears]

Well there would be like a 25% chance of a failed reflex save against the web, coupled with whatever they could throw at her. It just seems too likely and too stupid if it did happen (especially for the wizard, who thinks very highly of herself).

Yes but do remember that anything can happen in the game. If by some miracle of luck the PC's defeat said wizard (say a lucky SoD effect and the Wiz rolls a 1) then they now have tons of loot. Of course I think they should deserve it but thats just my opinion.

Also invest in something to help re-rolls just in case.

[Defiant]

Yes but do remember that anything can happen in the game. If by some miracle of luck the PC's defeat said wizard (say a lucky SoD effect and the Wiz rolls a 1) then they now have tons of loot. Of course I think they should deserve it but thats just my opinion.

Also invest in something to help re-rolls just in case.

If by some miracle of luck they defeat the wizard, then I will allow them a couple of level-ups and all the magic loot that comes with the wizard. They'd be amazed, happy, and have fun, telling stories for years to come how they defeated a wizard double their levels. It'd be pretty hard for me to start adjusting things and the campaign in general to acquiesce this radical change in power, but I'd find a way.

After all, I follow my own Rule 0 of DMing (not to be confused with Rule 0 of D&D, which is "the DM is always right"):

The purpose of D&D is for everyone to have fun at the gaming table.

[Douglas]

Soulfire armor or shield. Continuous Death Ward for +4 = no more worries about Save Or Die, or enervation, or a lot of other nasty stuff.

There are a few items in the MIC that protect against ability damage/drain, another potentially super nasty effect that you no longer have to worry about.

[Magnor Criol]

A Belt of Battle (MiC) allows you to spend charges for extra actions (swift, standard, or full round, depending), and extra actions are oh-so-useful for everyone, especially casters in a pinch. AND it grants a static +2 competence bonus to initiative! Relatively cheap too, only 12,000 gp. I love 'em.

The aforementioned Anklet of Translocation is another great get-out-of-a-scrape item. For only 1400 gp you can teleport 10 feet as a swift action twice per day. And not terribly many items use the feet slot, either.

Depending on the wizard's level, she'd probably get herself a Robe of the Archmagi, for the wide range of general defenses they offer.

Other than those, any CL boosting items are always a plus, followed closely by save-boosting items, probably.

[imperialspectre]

Death Ward, Mind Blank, and Freedom of Movement are the only effects that are automatic must-haves for someone you want to be immune to bad luck versus the PCs (up to around level 15 or so). Divinations + Energy Immunity can help you if one of the PCs is going for arbitrarily high amounts of direct damage casting, but I don't imagine that's a problem in your game.

For PCs, I really like the Belt of Battle, anything else that lets me trade swift actions for doing things that are useful (outside of ToB characters and full casters, of course), and anything else is pretty negotiable. Caster level increases and dispel/anti-dispel boosts are important for caster characters, though.

[Ormagoden]

It seems to me like you plan on railroading/screwing them over without any chance to begin with...why bother caring what the wizard is equipped with?

Does the party have a chance to win at all?

If your answer is no and your gonna /plot everything in the fight anyway why do you care? Why make your players more frustrated than they already are going to be?

On the other hand...say you do care...rings of wizardry especially III and up are wonderful little tools. Especially when combined with the versatile spellcaster feat. Any item that provides an aura of fire (like a salamander cloak) will take care of your Web woes.

*PS: Craft contingent spell.

[Xenogears]

It seems to me like you plan on railroading/screwing them over without any chance to begin with...why bother caring what the wizard is equipped with?

Does the party have a chance to win at all?

If your answer is no and your gonna /plot everything in the fight anyway why do you care? Why make your players more frustrated than they already are going to be?

Not 3 posts ago he said if they won hed give them huge amounts of levels, all the items, and try to reconstruct the entire campaign to adjust. No I don't think he plans on Fiating the battle. He does want them to lose but still wants the fight to be by the rules.

Edit: Okay 4 posts before yours.

[Lysander]

Web shouldn't a problem for a powerful wizard. Just have the wizard fly. Web can't be created without anchor points:


Web creates a many-layered mass of strong, sticky strands. These strands trap those caught in them. The strands are similar to spider webs but far larger and tougher. These masses must be anchored to two or more solid and diametrically opposed points or else the web collapses upon itself and disappears.

Have the wizard fly about 20 feet in the air. As long as they aren't flying between trees or something like that there won't be anything to attach the web to.

Or for a more direct approach Lesser Globe of Invulnerability should suppress any webs around them, and pretty much anything else your low level wizard can throw at them.

Just have the wizard use smart tactics. These spells will guarantee success:

Lesser Glove of Invulnerability (negates PC wizard)
Fly (negates PC melee attackers)
Protection from Arrows (negates PC ranged attackers)
Stoneskin + Mirror Image (just in case)

Note that all of these are buffs they can cast before the battle even begins. Don't worry about spell slots, all of these can be carried on scrolls. Then they can fly overhead and blast the PCs from above with destructive spells. Maybe even knock them out right away with some mass save-or-lose spell. You don't even need to give them a powerful magic item. Just give them a wand of Fireball or something so they don't run out of spells.

[Defiant]

Thanks for the great tips everyone! :smallbiggrin:

This is half for DMing and half for playing. I'm interested in must-have items such that PCs can't take down the Gods themselves with a simple level 3 spell, but also interested in things I might want or need to do for my own characters.

@Lysander: They're actually fighting in a forest and the wizard is only flying 30 feet off the ground. I would rule that the web could be conjured up between the trees.

In regards of the globe of invulnerability, I never thought about in that way. I always wondered what a good use for it would be, but it seems that blocking low-level killer spells is a wonderful idea, especially in such a situation. However, I doubt the wizard would have spent her time learning this or using this, given her backstory. (yes, I'm a stickler for accuracy... if the wizard in question wouldn't have had reason to have this spell, then she wouldn't have it)

Thank you Xenogears.

As for my point-by-point reply (it may seem like I'm going to a great deal of effort just to do something that is, in effect, defending myself... but honestly, I'm having fun doing it, so why not):


It seems to me like you plan on railroading/screwing them over without any chance to begin with...why bother caring what the wizard is equipped with?

They are, in a way, being railroaded. Sometimes you don't get to choose in life. Sometimes, you can't just decide to fight a random popping-out-of-nowhere wizard and expect to win. Players have to experience defeat sometimes, such that their victories are more glorious. Players have to experience being rolled over by a bigger guy (or girl in this case), such that they learn the lesson that they can't walk over anyone they feel like and loot the bodies. I do not pit them against a nigh-unbeatable foe willy-nilly.

However, I am not screwing them over. They will lose no items or gold as a result of this encounter (except maybe an expended scroll here or there, or something similar). Any harmful effects will be reversed once they are in the custody of this wizard, as she plans to interrogate them, currently mistaking them for a group with some evil intent. This will mainly be a plot encounter, where the results and aftermath will further the plot and give more clues about the underlying workings of the campaign secrets. This is why them winning by some huge luck or fluke would throw my campaign off, needing significant rethinking.

Why bother caring about the items? Because I don't want the sorceress to cast web on the wizard, facilitating a description from me "It doesn't work. Why? It just doesn't." Alternatively, giving the PCs a chance to topple even the most epic of characters with a level 3 spell (or force them to flee). That would be just stupid. I want my high-powered characters to be smart, experienced, and knowledgeable of simple ways they could be taken down, and have taken steps to counteract those possibilities. Like with a ring of freedom of movement (and things like deathward, what I have learned from this thread). Why doesn't it work? Because she has a ring of freedom of movement (which could maybe shine brightly when its use is activated), rather than because I say so.


Does the party have a chance to win at all?

Honestly, I don't know exactly what they're going to do. I put forward challenges to them, and they figure out ways to overcome them. I don't usually know exactly in which way things will happen. So I can't say for sure that the party will lose to the wizard, since I don't know what the party will do. I can say with great confidence, that they have nearly no chance, but again, you never know. The point of the encounter is not for them to win. But I will find ways to spice it up and at least make it interesting and fun, despite it being pretty much a lost battle.


If your answer is no and your gonna /plot everything in the fight anyway why do you care?

Maybe because I'm anal like that. Like I said, I care very much about what my answer is to the question "I cast web on the wizard nearly 10 levels higher than me... does she now fall entangled, struggling to break free of the DC20 Strength check with her puny wizard strength?". I don't want it to be "No, it doesn't work. Why? It just doesn't." when I roll a failed reflex save. I also don't want it to be "Yes, you have now effectively vanquished the wizard (or caused her to flee). Next up, you'll take on a wizard 20 levels higher than you... will she fail her reflex save as well?".

Do you get what I'm saying?


Why make your players more frustrated than they already are going to be?

I certainly hope they won't be frustrated! Like I said, acknowledging that this is a no-win encounter, I'll try to spice it up and make it interesting for them. One of the ideas floating in my head right now is to have her use Translocation Trick ("Switch Bodies") on a PC, and I communicate with that PC over laptop. All of a sudden I, as the DM, start saying that she's saying she's actually that member of the party, not the wizard girl. And a while after, my player party member casts a spell on a "friendly" PC and somehow turns her into a sheep*.

* - I haven't found any RAW way for a caster to undo Baleful Polymorph, but this will be one of those few times I will handwave it away. Once the wizard takes the party in custody, some of them maybe sheep, she will be able to undo the effects.

[Magnor Criol]

* - I haven't found any RAW way for a caster to undo Baleful Polymorph, but this will be one of those few times I will handwave it away. Once the wizard takes the party in custody, some of them maybe sheep, she will be able to undo the effects.

I think a Wish, even a Limited Wish should qualify just fine for waiving away a BP. An active, high-level wizard should have no problem with the relatively low XP cost for a Limited Wish or two. There may be other ways, but that's what comes to mind quickly.

Or, heck, she could've even researched and created a new spell, "Reverse Polymorph," for such occasions.


I want my high-powered characters to be smart, experienced, and knowledgeable of simple ways they could be taken down, and have taken steps to counteract those possibilities.

This seems in contrast to your statement about the wizard not knowing about Globe of Invulnerability, which seems like it'd be a pretty standard spell. :smalltongue:

For the record, it doesn't sound to me at all like you're trying to railroad them. Wanting a fight go in the way you've planned for the story does NOT equal railroading. Handwaving a result in the fight so that it goes that way DOES, but you're asking to avoid that happening, so you're not railroading at all - quite the opposite.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

* - I haven't found any RAW way for a caster to undo Baleful Polymorph, but this will be one of those few times I will handwave it away. Once the wizard takes the party in custody, some of them maybe sheep, she will be able to undo the effects.I believe Break Enchantment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/breakEnchantment.htm) breaks a Baleful Polymorph, among other effects.

[olentu]

I do not recall any special defense against dispelling.

[Killer Angel]

Freedom of movement is one (or is it?) for casters not getting locked down by a simple spell, or paralysis, or grapple, for example.

FoM is good, but is the easiest to obtain without objects. Apply some metamagic (still, silent) to the right spell, and you'll cover a lot of situations, saving money.
A protection from Death Ward is IMO more important... in core there's only the scarab, right? Pretty sure that outside Core there is something cheaper, but can't remember.

EDIT: talking 'bout arcane casters. For a cleric, FoM (immediate, with travel domain) and Death Ward are decisely not a problem.

[Orran]

Have the wizard have the heart of x spells from cmage cast pre battle. They're like contingent spells kinda, heart of water is 3rd level and can be expended as a swift action for FoM for 1 round/cl

[JaronK]

The safe way to ensure victory is to have the Wizard cast Summon Mirror Mephit (from EtDP, level 2 spell) and have said mephit create Simacrulums of the Wizard (of course, the Wizard must have the Mephit order the Sims to obey the Wizard). Now instead of one Wizard, the party must face many. I'm not sure what level you're doing this at, but if the Wiz is 7 levels up then the Sims will still be a significant threat. The Wizard can watch from a distance while the Sims do battle, and said Sims can be pretty much unequipped. Undead minions help too. Eventually the party will be worn down and defeated simply because there's no way they can defeat and endless stream of Wizards, especially when there's one in the background watching their defenses who can drop the heavy blow.

JaronK

[jseah]

Baleful Polymorph:

Duration: Permanent

Doesn't have a "no dispel" line like wall of force does. So simple Dispel Magic works.

If the wizard wants to turn them back, she auto-succeeds dispel vs her own spells.

[Runestar]

I like a DM who is willing to let the rules play themselves out as well as live with the potential consequences, rather than fall back on fiat to ensure things go a certain way despite whatever the party may do. :smallcool:

[Optimystik]

I believe Break Enchantment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/breakEnchantment.htm) breaks a Baleful Polymorph, among other effects.

Yes, it most definitely does.


I do not recall any special defense against dispelling.

Dispelling Buffer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/dispellingBuffer.htm) is a good one.

Ring of Enduring Arcana (CM) looks snazzy, and boosts your CL vs. being dispelled by 4.

[Lysander]

In regards of the globe of invulnerability, I never thought about in that way. I always wondered what a good use for it would be, but it seems that blocking low-level killer spells is a wonderful idea, especially in such a situation. However, I doubt the wizard would have spent her time learning this or using this, given her backstory. (yes, I'm a stickler for accuracy... if the wizard in question wouldn't have had reason to have this spell, then she wouldn't have it)

...

Maybe because I'm anal like that. Like I said, I care very much about what my answer is to the question "I cast web on the wizard nearly 10 levels higher than me... does she now fall entangled, struggling to break free of the DC20 Strength check with her puny wizard strength?". I don't want it to be "No, it doesn't work. Why? It just doesn't." when I roll a failed reflex save. I also don't want it to be "Yes, you have now effectively vanquished the wizard (or caused her to flee). Next up, you'll take on a wizard 20 levels higher than you... will she fail her reflex save as well?".

...

* - I haven't found any RAW way for a caster to undo Baleful Polymorph, but this will be one of those few times I will handwave it away. Once the wizard takes the party in custody, some of them maybe sheep, she will be able to undo the effects.

Why wouldn't she learn Globe of Invulnerability? A simple defense against magic seems useful for anybody. Has she barred abjuration spells? Or is she completely obsessed with one other kind of magic to the exclusion of everything else?

As for web, becoming entangled would not make the wizard fall to the ground. She would either becoming stuck in the web above ground, or if she makes her reflex save become entangled but be able to move freely. The latter would just make her fly a bit slower and require a concentration check for spells, but at no point would her fly spell stop working because of web.

As others have said, a simple Dispel Magic is just one of your many options to deal with polymorph.

Plus, the wizard is attacking them correct? They're not ambushing her. She can fly after them with Invisibility up, and then start summoning monsters to arrest them. Summoning monsters btw does not break an invisibility spell like attacking does, so she can theoretically defeat them without ever showing herself. For dramatic purposes you'll probably want her to drop the invisibility and announce herself, but why not do that after she's summoned up additional targets to occupy the party? Or confuse them with some illusions? The point is, there are a million tactics she could use should make it very hard for the party to win. Heck, she could even cast Web on THEM.

[Ormagoden]

Some things I'd like to point out.

"No, they're not going to get killed by the caster, but they will be captured and interrogated, and learn the lesson that they can't kill anything they want in this world"

Your basic idea is to teach the players "a lesson". That right there screams to me that you are tired of their Shenanigans as a DM and want to get some revenge.

You refute.

"They are, in a way, being railroaded."
"However, I am not screwing them over."

You respond to my question: Does the party have a chance to win at all?
with
"Honestly, I don't know exactly what they're going to do."

then later you say "Like I said, acknowledging that this is a no-win encounter, I'll try to spice it up and make it interesting for them."

So you don't know what the party is going to do? Really? Because you are planning for them to have no chance of winning at all. That's very apparent from your post and your defense statements.

You claim that spicing it up will make it interesting?

I say that "spicing it up" will make the players feel powerless, feeble, frustrated, and that they have no control over the situation in any capacity.

Runestar says "I like a DM who is willing to let the rules play themselves out as well as live with the potential consequences, rather than fall back on fiat to ensure things go a certain way despite whatever the party may do."

Which is basically the opposite of what your doing. I mean sure you're looking for cool items to have the wizard equipped with. In essence you're fiat'ing it just the same. You've already said there is no way they can win, and you're asking forum members to ensure that by providing you additional equipment (I read excuses) to tell your players their "Sorry that doesn't work because of X."

Also your additional statement of "One of the ideas floating in my head right now is to have her use Translocation Trick ("Switch Bodies") on a PC, and I communicate with that PC over laptop. All of a sudden I, as the DM, start saying that she's saying she's actually that member of the party, not the wizard girl. And a while after, my player party member casts a spell on a "friendly" PC and somehow turns her into a sheep" Is an awesome idea!

It's much better than just getting dropped fast by a high level NPC caster. I'm not familiar enough with translocation trick to comment or advise on it. Does it allow a spell caster to switch bodies and continue to cast the spells they have? If so I would definitely go that route it sounds like awesome fun. Just don't use it on a crazy PC or player...my first idea out of that situation is to reach into the high level wizards bag of holding pull out a knife and threaten death to the wizards body. I might even coup de grâce the wizards body and kill myself should things seem too dire. Be warned!

[Lysander]

Lostfang does have a bit of a point. If you're going to have a battle make the actions of the PCs actually matter.

Maybe the goal of the battle isn't to win, it's to survive for long enough to convince the wizard to arrest them instead of killing them outright. Or maybe the goal of the battle is to let one of the PCs escape, so they can come rescue them later. If the PCs are going to be captured let them know that right away that they're massively outgunned so they don't try to win, they just try to mitigate their imminent loss.

[Xenogears]

The safe way to ensure victory is to have the Wizard cast Summon Mirror Mephit (from EtDP, level 2 spell) and have said mephit create Simacrulums of the Wizard (of course, the Wizard must have the Mephit order the Sims to obey the Wizard). Now instead of one Wizard, the party must face many. I'm not sure what level you're doing this at, but if the Wiz is 7 levels up then the Sims will still be a significant threat. The Wizard can watch from a distance while the Sims do battle, and said Sims can be pretty much unequipped. Undead minions help too. Eventually the party will be worn down and defeated simply because there's no way they can defeat and endless stream of Wizards, especially when there's one in the background watching their defenses who can drop the heavy blow.

JaronK

This could be a fun idea actually. Have the PC's battle the simulcrums alone. They can win against these. After that have the REAL wizard show up and incapacitate them instantly.

[Douglas]

I'm not familiar enough with translocation trick to comment or advise on it.
It doesn't actually put either person's mind in the other's body, it moves each person to the other's location and disguises each one as the other. It's a combined "swap positions" and Disguise Self on each.

[Defiant]

@Many: Ah yes, a Break Enchantment can end that transmutation, and even a simple dispel.

@Killer Angel: The problem is that the wizard would have to prepare these spells as silent and/or still. She would have to prepare to be locked down or something similar. This is very unlikely, given how highly she thinks of herself: she just popped out of nowhere in front of them (one day after they set off a visible alarm), holding manacles and dropping in front of them, announcing "you have 5 seconds to surrender".

@JaronK: Sorry, I couldn't find EtDP. Mind telling me exactly what book that is? As for that idea, it sounds interesting. I'll certainly have to consider it against others, whether it would make the fight more fun or not.

@Lysander: I will concede the point about Globe of Invulnerability. To be honest, I was just weary of it because I never thought about it. But that might well be an effective tactic. She has Greater Invisibility, so that's not a problem... though I don't think I'll have her be invisible, as being picked off one by one by an unbeatable foe you can't even see would be more frustrating than fun.

@Lostfang: Revenge? I would have to have ill feelings on them to want revenge. And none of their shenanigans have upset me in any way. I try to be a DM: impartial. I am not part of the world, to be offended or upset by their actions; I am the world. It just so happens that a high-level wizard of this world has mistaken them for someone else (after they triggered an alarm), and will end up serving many plot points. Maybe a better DM would find an even more interesting way of furthering the campaign plot points and secrets. I don't claim to be perfect. But I have been planning this encounter a few sessions back (the encounter of: the wizard who has been altering things throughout now mistakes them and comes for them). Maybe it's just a horrible idea and I seem to be too fixated on this plot reveal (since changing it I would have to find some other way, not necessarily as realistic, to give them vital information).

But do not believe I have any ill feelings towards the players and want to teach them a lesson or want to get revenge. The only reason I said teach a lesson is because they all started talking about what magic gear she would be wearing and what they could loot once they kill her (even though the Paladin detected no evil on her, and she called them traitorous scum who are trying to bring down the kingdom).

RE: No-win. Realistically they are not going to win. But if they come up with some crazy off-the-wall idea that I haven't thought of or taken into account, I won't make it not work just to have the wizard win. Do I expect the party to win? Absolutely not, given the odds. Does the party have any chance to win? By breaking the odds or coming up with something I did not expect (that works), I suppose so.

RE: Spicing. Actually, spicing it up will not cause the players feel frustrated. The fact that it is a wizard 7 levels higher than them and they have nearly no chance of winning will make them frustrated. Spicing it up will mitigate this frustration with an interesting or fun battle.

Yes, it's an unbeatable battle. But they've had an unbeatable battle before too (out of story, at no risk... long story). They kind of came close, and were rather happy about that, so I will try to make this similar. In the end, I'm hoping not for them to be thinking "that was such a frustrating waste of time... we just lose, no options." I want them to think "that was a very interesting battle!" or "yeah, we lost, but that's only because of that one thing happening... we came close though".

In general, the thing I'm getting from you is that I should feel bad for thinking about this. And I am actually starting to feel like a bad DM for my plan. Maybe it's a horrible idea. Maybe I should just have it be some random wizard that they can actually kill, loot the body, and move on. Maybe anything they come across, they should be able to kill, loot the bodies, and move on, and I should just create a story to adapt to this general occurrence.

For now, however, I think I'll go with my plan and see what happens. The best way to learn as a DM is to experience. And I frequently look at all my players and see if they're having fun. Earlier on in the sessions it was less frequent, but recently I see them laughing and having a lot of fun. We'll see how this one goes. After all, I'd rather not give up an idea that I thought was good, and never know whether it would have been good or not.

[Dr Bwaa]

*defends himself*

Good for you. Your DMing style sounds very similar to mine. Sometimes (more often than is commonly reflected in actual campaigns), people are more powerful than the PCs. Wanting them to actually be more powerful/better prepared/etc than the PCs is perfectly legitimate, IMO.

On topic, I agree with the people saying she may not engage them directly if she thinks they could present even the smallest threat. A Wizard that many levels higher than the party is also absurdly [b]smart[/i]. Whatever her plan is for arresting them, it will be be as logical and foolproof as she can make it, wearing them down and attacking right after a random encounter, that kind of thing. She'll likely be flying and invisible for a while just nearby until it is the appropriate moment to capture them all at once (Some thing as simple as a Heightened Deep Slumber on the Fighter's watch duty, then Web each party member would probably work).

[Lysander]

Here's a question. Does it help your story to have a fight? Why not have her try to arrest them, and let them decide whether to resist or not? If they resist you have a battle and she probably knocks them out (or maybe they win and get some phat lewts and make some powerful enemies), if they come willingly they get better treatment and she's more willing to listen to their side of the story.

[Defiant]

Here's a question. Does it help your story to have a fight? Why not have her try to arrest them, and let them decide whether to resist or not? If they resist you have a battle and she probably knocks them out (or maybe they win and get some phat lewts and make some powerful enemies), if they come willingly they get better treatment and she's more willing to listen to their side of the story.

I ended the session with her appearing and demanding their immediate surrender. They chose to resist.

[Lysander]

I ended the session with her appearing and demanding their immediate surrender. They chose to resist.

Then you're in the clear. This is the players making a call and seeing it through. Have the wizard keep demanding their surrender though, so they can change their mind if they want. Give them a hint about how powerful the wizard is, and also that she's not evil. Maybe allow the PCs to make Knowledge Arcana or Spellcraft checks to notice that they're really outclassed. Something like the wizard bearing a pendant that shows membership in a mystical order of archmages that protect the world from evil, or just noticing that the spells she opens with are all very high level.

[olentu]

Yes, it most definitely does.



Dispelling Buffer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/dispellingBuffer.htm) is a good one.

Ring of Enduring Arcana (CM) looks snazzy, and boosts your CL vs. being dispelled by 4.

That was in regards to removing the baleful polymorph. It seems that the quote did not work.