[4e] Profession Skill

[Edge of Dreams]

Thinking about adding this to my 4e game. PEACH?

Skill: Profession

Some adventurers have experience and training in skills that aren't directly related to adventuring. This may be from an apprenticeship, their parents, a mundane job they held before they set off to adventure, or just something they picked up in their spare time.

Profession is considered a class skill for every class. Additionally, when "Backgrounds" are in use, a player may choose training in a profession instead of the other Background bonus options.

The DM decides during character creation which primary attribute (str, dex, etc.) each profession is associated with. Many professions will be based on Intelligence, but there is certainly room for other options.

The uses of the Profession skill should be limited only by what the players can come up with, so long as it is reasonably related to the profession and doesn't replace other skills. Profession(Thief) should not be allowed to replace Sneak and Thievery checks, for example. Profession skill may also be used to craft mundane items related to the skill (note: figure out relationship between DC and value of item crafted). It may also be used to know things related to the profession as a knowledge skill.

A character may use the Profession skill to earn money in an average town equal to their check minus 10 gold pieces per week. This may be adjusted by the DM according to economics, the size of the town, etc.

A table of example DCs:
5 - You suck at your job.
10 - Average for someone with no training and no talent, not enough to earn any money
15 - Average for someone with training but no talent. Can earn a living.
20 - Average for someone with training and some talent/Skill Focus. Can live comfortably
25 - Recognized as an expert, possibly noticed by nobles
30 - Recognized as one of the best in a region, possibly noticed by royalty.
35 - One of the best in the world. Possibly noticed by extraplanar beings
40 - THE best in the world. Definitely noticed by SOMEONE.

Note that to gain the recognition of important people, the dc ought to be reached on a regular basis. A one-time performance of DC 35 is very impressive, but to do it almost every time is what it takes to truly be "one of the best".

Some example professions:
Prof. (Musician) - Charisma based (a performer who grabs attention), Dex based (someone who strives for technical perfection), or Int based (a composer)
Prof. (Blacksmith) - Str or Int based
Prof. (Actor) - Cha based
Prof. (Chef) - Int based
Prof. (Inventor) - Int based (I see this as suitable for an artificer who wants to build clockwork stuff that's not combat-based)
Prof. (Farmer) - Wis or Int based (connection to nature vs. scientific methods)

[Mando Knight]

A linear cash rate is bad. There's absolutely no way to have it "work" for both weaker NPCs (who likely shouldn't earn much more than living wages) and epic characters (who spend hundreds of thousands of gp at the drop of a hat).

My question is, what's the purpose of the Profession skill? If it's primarily background fluff (in accordance with the nominal gp gain), then can't it be simply integrated into the backgrounds (like the existing Occupation: X backgrounds in both PHB2 and Dragon)? Is it to provide a secondary source of gp? If so, then you need to use an exponential rather than a flat multiplier for the gold rate.

[Edge of Dreams]

A linear cash rate is bad. There's absolutely no way to have it "work" for both weaker NPCs (who likely shouldn't earn much more than living wages) and epic characters (who spend hundreds of thousands of gp at the drop of a hat).

My question is, what's the purpose of the Profession skill? If it's primarily background fluff (in accordance with the nominal gp gain), then can't it be simply integrated into the backgrounds (like the existing Occupation: X backgrounds in both PHB2 and Dragon)? Is it to provide a secondary source of gp? If so, then you need to use an exponential rather than a flat multiplier for the gold rate.

Hmm, good point there about the linear vs. exponential value of gold relative to level. I was pretty much just reworking the 3.5 prof/craft skill.

The purpose of adding this to the game was not to provide a way for players to make money. The purpose was to give players a way to represent mechanically background skills that aren't covered by the standard skill list and might occasionally deserve a better roll than just "make an int check" or "make a dex check'.

The thing that prompted this was a player complaining that Artificers have no particular skill or expertise at building traps, clockwork, etc. than any other class, despite their flavor indicating they would. In the same way, bards are no "better" at playing music than any other character. The idea was that by creating a profession system with a vague idea of what appropriate dc's are, I could better adjudicate many of the things my players would like to do that currently have no mechanics in the system.

[Mando Knight]

WotC's idea is (roughly) as follows:

What makes the bard's singing special? The fact that it's magic singing. Give him powers to represent magical singing both in combat and out of it, with the latter likely modifying an existing skill that influences the audience's disposition towards the performer (such as Diplomacy).

Artificers like to make gadgets, right? Well, they get Thievery (the gadget-fiddling skill) as a class skill, and get access not only to the Ritual Caster and Alchemist feats to create things, but also get unique feats that allow them to count as higher-leveled characters for creating things. Add in some gadgetry-based flavor for combat, and you're set.

Most other professions have some kind of skill that they use regularly, and would then be appropriate for a background benefit to that end. Farmers need to have a working knowledge of nature to take care of their crops and/or herds and need to be able to work all day, so Nature and Endurance are probably good associated skills. Chef is unusual, though. I'd say Diplomacy and Nature under WotC's system, since a good chef needs to be able to present his food well and determine the right ingredients.

Take it or leave it, but that's roughly the reasoning behind the lack of profession skills.

[DiscipleofBob]

The idea's not bad. After all, Profession is something that occasionally needs to be represented mechanically and can be awkward to do so in 4e. I have a few suggestions though:

1. As it stands though, even if you allow someone to get the Profession skill via a background, you have PC's missing out on either a potential +2 to a skill or getting an extra class skill they would otherwise miss out on. My opinion is that if you're going to implement a new feature like this, your PC's need to be able to take advantage of it without missing out on anything else.

2. The DC scale is way too difficult especially for earlier levels. A Heroic level Bard has to roll high just to be AVERAGE at his job. For example, a Heroic level Musician should be well-liked anywhere he performs, whether it be a seedy bar or a king's court. A Paragon level musician should be recognized across international borders by name. An Epic level musician... well... Elvis and Michael Jackson come to mind. Even gods would want to hear an Epic-level play.

3. A couple of professions you should consider:
Prof. (Mariner) for yon pirate and sailor characters. Yar.
Prof. (Bureaucrat) Kings need tax collectors, and a knowledge of politics and paperwork can come in handy.
Prof. (Performer) Musician's a little too specific. There are jugglers and circus performers as well.
Prof. (Architect/Mason) Good for guessing building layouts, where the secret doors, treasure room, and armory might be.

4. One last thing. I would make Blacksmith solely Strength-based, Chef should be Wisdom-based, and Farmer should be Strength or Wisdom-based.
Solely my opinion, but Intelligence in 4e seems to have been downgraded from meaning "skilled" to "book-learned," something a lot of apprenticeship-style skills wouldn't really be akin to.

[Edge of Dreams]

Thanks for the comments, DoB.



2. The DC scale is way too difficult especially for earlier levels. A Heroic level Bard has to roll high just to be AVERAGE at his job. For example, a Heroic level Musician should be well-liked anywhere he performs, whether it be a seedy bar or a king's court.

I'm not sure I agree with you here. A level 1 Bard with Profession(Musician) trained would have a bonus of 5 + cha mod (and if his cha mod is less than 3 as a Bard, I'd be surprised). He can take ten for a "roll" of around 15-20, depending on cha, which means on average, he performs, well, "average". That sounds right for a level 1 character to me. At level 11, the beginning of paragon, he's got a bonus of 5 (training) + 5 (1/2 level) + cha + 2 (item bonus from a masterwork instrument, perhaps?) for an "average" (take 10) roll of around 23-28. Again, this seems about right to me.

What do you think?