[D&D 3.5] Volley-archery, how to do it?

[Ernir]

Lately, I've been wanting to darken the sky with arrows. The problem is, I'm not very good at optimizing archers. How do you achieve legendary numbers of ranged attacks?
And more interestingly, how many different ways are there to do it?

In core, you can have BAB above 16 + Rapid Shot + Haste for 6 attacks.

A ToB/Eternal Blade build can do Time Stands Still + Island in Time for what... 3 or 4 full attacks in a row? I have seen numbers between 40 and 50 as the maximum number here, but I stall far below that. How? :smallconfused:

Gishes can Polymorph into Arrow Demons (MM3). What about the Zen Archers, Clerics and Archivists? Do they have any semi-unique abilities when it comes to this?

I have seen PsyWars mentioned as a possibility. I don't see anything they have that is unique to them. Can you shed some light?

The Manticore Belt (MoI) can get a bunch of projectiles all on its own.

Aptitude weapon abuse can let you fire until you run out of bullets. It's been done to death. Hehehe.



So. Care to share your tricks, and how many you can get? :smallsmile:

[Boci]

Splitting enchantment from Champions of Ruin splits 1 arrow into 2, so that is double the attacks. Its a +2 ability. A factotum can gain extra standard action then burn through inspiration points to launch multiple many shots. Wraith strike could offset the penalty to hit, but it may be limited to melee attacks.

[Ernir]

Isn't Splitting +3? :smallconfused:
But I entirely forgot about it. Belt of Battle too, another full attack there.

And yes, Wraithstrike, as much as I like it, only works on melee attacks. :smallfrown:

[Cieyrin]

Optimized, maybe, but an interesting trick I like is becoming a Soulbow and going through the Two-Weapon Fighting track to shoot mind arrows with both hands. Also tack on Zen Archery to be purely Wisdom based and it becomes truly interesting, especially if you can find a way to get Owl's Insight cast on you.

[Boci]

Isn't Splitting +3? :smallconfused:

Oh yeah, right you are.


But I entirely forgot about it. Belt of Battle too, another full attack there.

Factotum 20 can buff himself with divine might, then make a full attack with rapid shot for 5 attacks. Swift action belt of battle for another 5. Then spent 9 inspiration points for another 12, each at a -4 penalty. Now if he uses a splitting bow...


And yes, Wraithstrike, as much as I like it, only works on melee attacks. :smallfrown:

Dam, oh well.

[Eldariel]

Wood Elf, Fire Elf or Lesser Drow Ranger 2/Barbarian 1 (Whirling Frenzy, Pounce)/Targeteer 1 (Arrow Swarm)/Warblade 6/Eternal Blade 10

Basic crux:
- Wood Elf maximizes damage.
- Fire Elf has the most beneficial stat boosts for the build.
- Lesser Drow enables using the Drow Fighter ACF from DoTU for sure; arguably anyone can use it, but there's no way a Drow can't.

Level 1 - Ranger 1: Point Blank Shot
Level 2 - Ranger 2: Rapid Shot (Ranger Bonus)
Level 3 - Barbarian 1: Precise Shot
Level 4 - Warblade 1:
Level 5 - Warblade 2:
Level 6 - Warblade 3: Weapon Focus: Bow
Level 7 - Warblade 4:
Level 8 - Targeteer 1:
Level 9 - Warblade 5: Weapon Specialization: Bow, Improved Initiative/Quick Draw/Blind-Fight/Diehard/whatever (Warblade Bonus)
Level 10 - Warblade 6:
Level 11 - Eternal Blade 1:
Level 12 - Eternal Blade 2: Ranged Weapon Mastery: Piercing
Level 13 - Eternal Blade 3:
Level 14 - Eternal Blade 4:
Level 15 - Eternal Blade 5: Knowledge Devotion
Level 16 - Eternal Blade 6:
Level 17 - Eternal Blade 7:
Level 18 - Eternal Blade 8: Woodland Archer
Level 19 - Eternal Blade 9:
Level 20 - Eternal Blade 10:


This is basically a modified version of my standard Eternal Archer build to fit in the Targeteer (which is Dragon and thus rarely allowed). This costs you two feats which would otherwise be e.g. Power Attack and Improved Precise Shot. One alternative is also cutting out Precise Shot or Ranged Weapon Mastery for other good stuff, but they're very useful for the basic power level (you need WF for Eternal Blade anyways so RWM is quite cheap to pick up), and while Precise Shot can be replaced with equipment, that's unreliable and Splitting specifically requires Precise Shot to work.

The crux of the deal is, you get 4 attacks from BAB. Then, you gain 1 from Haste (e.g. Boots of Speed), 1 from Rapid Shot, 2 from Arrow Swarm and 1 from Whirling Frenzy. This gets you base of 9 arrows per full attack. Splitting doubles the number of attacks you can make; that gives you 18. Now, you can Time Stands Still for do twice that in a turn. Then you can use Eternal Blade's Eternal Training to free action recoup the Time Stands Still, and use it again on your Island in Time-turn.

This is without using any daily resources; you also meet prerequisites of Raging Mongoose from your Warblade-levels and can thus item it and add a total of 2 attacks per full attack sequence, doubled by Splitting, for a total of 4 full attack sequences each containing 11 arrows, 22 attacks. So 88 attacks. If using Belt of Battle instead of Raging Mongoose, we can further make one more full round attack (if using Martial Script, you could arguably have Time Stands Still still up as scripts are a bit weird with same prepared maneuvers) giving us a total of 5 attacks at 18 base or 4 attacks at 22 base; 90 attacks with Belt, 88 without. 108 if we argue something weird about Time Stands Still.

Note, a reading exists which doesn't allow Raging to double your attacks for your two turns even if they're interweaved and another one exists that prevents Time Stands Still from working with it, but by our reading, Raging Mongoose does work with Time Stands Still.

Woodland Archer gives you a +4 to attacks for misses. You can reach ~+100 to hit midway through your volley, and Splitting works nicely as the ability only cares about attack rolls. Note, if you switch to Crossbows, pick up few extra feats (flaws or whatever) and do the same, you can add 3 more attacks per sequence from TWF. But I don't like Crossbows in this since they're so feat intensive and invariably lead to the stupid Aptitude-crap with Lightning Maces for 1000s of attacks.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and if you could add Flaws, the first addition would be Extra Rage. Hell, the second Flaw could be another one (though I'd prolly add Power Attack for some meleeability or Improved Precise Shot for...improved precise shooting first), but one Extra Rage would definitely improve you greatly as Whirling Frenzy is one base attack. You could cut Knowledge Devotion or RWM for it, but both are important damage/to hit increasers, and RWM increases your range too. And Woodland Archer is just a brutal, brutal accuracy increase. Oh yeah, and Targeteer gets free EWP in one ranged weapon; hello, Greatbow! you can really reach high ranges if you so desire.


Another nova-wise impressive build is simple Factotum 11/Chameleon 9 with Font of Inspirationx6 or so, just picking up Manyshot. Divine Power from Chameleon, and this gives you 10 Standard Actions (plus Belt in Battle) Manyshotting 4 arrows each for 40 arrows, 80 with Splitting.

Not quite as impressive, but enough to holify a Hecatoncheires, especially since you can ignore its DR (in both builds; level 11 Factotum-ability in Factotum-build and level 2 Eternal Blade-ability in Eternal Blade-build).


List of sources:
- Lesser Drow [PGtF]
- Fire Elf [SRD]
- Targeteer-variant Fighter [DR310]
- Whirling Frenzy-variant Rage [SRD]
- Warblade [ToB]
- Eternal Blade [ToB]
- Time Stands Still [ToB]
- Raging Mongoose [ToB]
- Woodland Archer [RoTW]
- Knowledge Devotion [CC]
- Ranged Weapon Mastery [PHBII]
- Warblade [ToB]
- Splitting [CoR]

- Factotum [Dungeon]
- Chameleon [RoD]
- Font of Inspiration [Web (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070606)]

[Ernir]

Now that's something. :smallbiggrin:
And quite a few things I might actually yoink into a build someday.

One thing I didn't recognize, though:

2 from Arrow Swarm
What's this? :smallconfused:


Also, does anyone know of any advantages Gishes/PsyWars/Divine Casters might have here?

[Eldariel]

It's an ability of the Targeteer-variant Fighter from Dragon 310. I made the source-list for that very reason. Advantages for Gishes/Psy Wars/whatever? Well, they have more means of acquiring extra actions, of course. Polymorph/Metamorphosis does wonders (Arrow Demon, for example, or anything with Dual Action) and they tend to have easier time dealing damage. Also, some spells offer nice effects, particularly Spell Compendium Ranger-list.

[sofawall]

It's an ability of the Targeteer-variant Fighter from Dragon 310. I made the source-list for that very reason. Advantages for Gishes/Psy Wars/whatever? Well, they have more means of acquiring extra actions, of course. Polymorph/Metamorphosis does wonders (Arrow Demon, for example, or anything with Dual Action) and they tend to have easier time dealing damage. Also, some spells offer nice effects, particularly Spell Compendium Ranger-list.

Are you going to finish the Archery Compendium, by the way? I've used it a few times, but remain at a loss as to spells and maneuvers.

Discovered Gnome Crossbow Sight from there, by the way.

[Eldariel]

Are you going to finish the Archery Compendium, by the way? I've used it a few times, but remain at a loss as to spells and maneuvers.

Discovered Gnome Crossbow Sight from there, by the way.

I guess I have to since I began it. I've just...managed to postpone it way too long. Bleh. It's so damn much work... And formatting it is difficult due to the necessary repetition and such. I'm still trying to work out the exact organization.

[Ernir]

It's an ability of the Targeteer-variant Fighter from Dragon 310. I made the source-list for that very reason.

Oops, sorry. Should have figured, being from Dragon, it's the only ability I can't check out and have never heard about.

EDIT: Nevermind, it's a base class variant. To Crystal Keep! Whee!


I guess I have to since I began it. I've just...managed to postpone it way too long. Bleh. It's so damn much work...

Egh, I feel your pain. I've done the huge-information-thread thing before (not for D&D). It's... consuming.

[FishAreWet]

Polymorph into Arrow Demon and dual wield splitting bows while hasted with rapid shot.

This gives 18 attacks.

Now open up Champions of Ruin and look at Arrowsplit. It turns an arrow into 1d4+1 arrows. Now cast a Reach Chain Maximized Arrowsplit.


You just shot 90 arrows.

[Vizzerdrix]

Redundant post is redundant

One day, I SHALL learn to read entire topics before I post in them. I will!

[Boci]

It is a +3, and wraith strike is melee only. Sorry.

A bit late and repetative, but thanks.

[Irreverent Fool]

Get at least ten archers in a contiguous groups (each one adjacent to at least one other), they can loose a volley of arrows as a full-round action... The commander makes a special attack roll against AC15 using his BAB plus Int modifier and any range increment penalty. If the attack hits, the arrows land in the target area which has the same shape as the archers hit with an arrow volley, arrows land in a 2-by-5 5' square area.

...

From Heroes of Battle pg 68. Arrow volleys become an area-of-effect attack. The DC starts at 15 with modifiers based on range and enhancement bonuses. It's a pretty terrible attack option against anything but low-level monsters and/or rank-and-file troops... which is what it's for of course.

:smallbiggrin:

obnoxious
sig

[AslanCross]

...

From Heroes of Battle pg 68. Arrow volleys become an area-of-effect attack. The DC starts at 15 with modifiers based on range and enhancement bonuses. It's a pretty terrible attack option against anything but low-level monsters and/or rank-and-file troops... which is what it's for of course.

:smallbiggrin:

obnoxious
sig

That was going to be my knee-jerk post as well, but the OP apparently wants a way to arrowspam with just one PC.

[Irreverent Fool]

That was going to be my knee-jerk post as well, but the OP apparently wants a way to arrowspam with just one PC.

Leadership?

obnoxious
sig

[Ruinix]

if only what u want is a awful abuser volley i sugest.

Thri-Kreen HD +2

hand crossbow all spliting

targeteer fighter 2 / ranger 2 (planar varaiant for a nice celestial companion ^^) / rogue-scout a taste.

2 weapon fighting
improve 2 weapon fighting
rapid shot
improve rapid shot
precise shot

[Eldariel]

if only what u want is a awful abuser volley i sugest.

Thri-Kreen HD +2

hand crossbow all spliting

targeteer fighter 2 / ranger 2 (planar varaiant for a nice celestial companion ^^) / rogue-scout a taste.

2 weapon fighting
improve 2 weapon fighting
rapid shot
improve rapid shot
precise shot

With buyoff and some culling, you could pull off Warblade Archer with this. Just about any DM could probably expand Raging Mongoose for multiple hands.

HD 2/Targeteer Fighter 1/Barbarian 1/Ranger 2/Warblade 14.

7 feats from levels, 1 from Ranger for 8.

3 MWF - GMWF
1 Hand Crossbow Focus (get Extra Arm [SS] to reload 'em all)
3 PBS, Precise, Rapid
1 Crossbow Sniper

You end up with 9 more attacks than in my build, so 18 attacks by default though only 3 full attack actions (no Eternal Blade) for 108 attacks. If a DM waived the Elf-requirements on Eternal Blade, you could get that for 180 attacks total. You could also use Flaws and some such for Lightning Maces, Improved Critical and "Going To Town" for approximately half a billion attacks per turn.

[Vizzerdrix]

This thread got me looking around in my books, and I found a bunch of spells that effect arrows. From launch bolt (0) up to arrow of bone (7). This got me thinking. Can we create a volley build that can get access to these spells and be able to make your own arrows?

Artificer could pull it off I think. Maybe Factotum too. Archivist could get them with help (Need to look into this), but can also get the ranger spells as well. Hmm...

[Eldariel]

This thread got me looking around in my books, and I found a bunch of spells that effect arrows. From launch bolt (0) up to arrow of bone (7). This got me thinking. Can we create a volley build that can get access to these spells and be able to make your own arrows?

Artificer could pull it off I think. Maybe Factotum too. Archivist could get them with help (Need to look into this), but can also get the ranger spells as well. Hmm...

Volley-build? No; you pretty much need tons of martial levels for those. Archer, though? Definitely. Archivist Archers are quite perfect and Unseen Seers make for great archers too. This stuff really kicks into high gear in Gestalt though where you get stuff like Warblade//Archivist or Factotum//Unseen Seer. There was the Gestalt Build Challenge "Home On the Range(d) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74764)" that had quite a few of these.

[ubergeek63]

This thread got me looking around in my books, and I found a bunch of spells that effect arrows. From launch bolt (0) up to arrow of bone (7). This got me thinking. Can we create a volley build that can get access to these spells and be able to make your own arrows?

Artificer could pull it off I think. Maybe Factotum too. Archivist could get them with help (Need to look into this), but can also get the ranger spells as well. Hmm...

who needs a volley build? an energy bow with splitting and mage bane that has a spell trigger of arrow storm like the bow of true arrows does for "true strike". at 10th lvl you could hit 20 opponents for 2d6 or 4d6 verses magic users even if incorporeal!

an artificer should be able to create one at lvl6, but it is like a +7 bonus lvl without the arrow storm effect.

Dan