OOTS #701 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Aethir]

Wow, very impressive display of gathered goblins and hobgoblins. I really thought there were next to no goblins left, guess that shows I was wrong.

Very nice comic, all in all.

[Tyrael]

This bodes ominously for Our Intrepid Heroes.

Also, this comic was posted the night before Barack Obama's State of the Union Address.


Coincidence?:amused:

[horngeek]

...I've been playing FFRP too much.

Because my mind immediately thought of another interpretation of 'curtains'. :smalltongue:

[silvadel]

A little more hinting about the MITD. He has trouble pulling on things and is much better at pushing.... Hmmm...

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Looks like a big, important speech is on it's way!

Looks like Redcloak has to put out some bad news, but has to dress it up as nice as possible...

[The Giant]

Also, this comic was posted the night before Barack Obama's State of the Union Address.


Coincidence?:amused:

Yes, actually.

[Goonthegoof]

Hang on, I know there weren't many there but why are there any regular goblins at all?

[Bavarian itP]

Wow, I like the masses of cheerful gobos.

They really love Left-eye Redcloak.

[SPoD]

Hang on, I know there weren't many there but why are there any regular goblins at all?

The goblins that died in the first dungeon were not the entirety of the goblin race. This city has been under hobgoblin control for almost an entire YEAR, it makes sense that some regular goblins from other part of the world would have emigrated to join the Great Goblin Nation to the south.

[Ramorr]

I'd guess Azure city has been attracting greenskins since its liberation by the goblin hordes.

Great comic.

[FerhagoRosewood]

For some reason the art lends itself surprisingly well for huge crowds like the audience. I can't even begin to imagine the work that goes into constructing it but I greatly appreciate it.

Also... The plot thickens.

:smalleek:

[nonbeliever93]

Poor Redcloak, he's sacrificed a lot in the name of Goblinkind hasn't he.

[Duxus]

Yey first page!
Different color eye-patch! Nice..

[Killer Angel]

Wow, very intriguing and with great graphic! :smallsmile:
MitD singing the tune is priceless, and now I really wait for Redcloak's speech, even if (maybe?) it will be "only" about the philactery.


stuff

Are you sure (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/announcement.php?a=1) about your affirmation? :smallwink:

[Angrox]

Hm, seems that Redcloak doesn't feel confident anymore :smallcool:

[LiteYear]

Hmmm, I thought all of the Hobgoblins would have been ordered to look for the Phylactery. Or maybe that's what this speech is going to address...

[Mariel Dragon]

epic. Now I want to read SoD, if only for Right-Eye (not that I didn't want before, it's just that I don't own any books yet)

[Yendor]

Hmmm, I thought all of the Hobgoblins would have been ordered to look for the Phylactery. Or maybe that's what this speech is going to address...

They found the phylactery, and Redcloak is going to announce he's about to leave the city for a while. Seems fairly likely.

[Hacktor]

nice one giant
:smallbiggrin:

[lothos]

So are they applauding Redcloak himself, or something behind him that we can't see in this strip ?

MitD music is green... just like Elan's. Maybe he is a bard :-)
OK, not serious there... maybe ALL music in OOTS has green notes.

When Redcloak looks in the mirror, his reflection has one right eye..... I think he is speaking to himself and also to the person his reflection reminds him of.

[Athaniar]

This is going to be most interesting...

[Roc Ness]

Uh oh. This reminds me of what I read of Lincoln's assassination... well, not the play part, but the scene seems similar... a box style veranda.

Also, the foreshadowing title...

[Torquinette]

I love the relentless effort on the comic, as usual. Very satisfying comic, since everything fitted in and was in perfect character.

I'm reading too deep into this, aren't I. :smalltongue:

[mistformsquirrl]

I love the crowd panel - Giant, that is some freaking awesome perspective you've got going there <@.@> It's kinda trippy... I like it!

[Katana_Geldar]

Nice! And I think we'll be getting one rousing speech about how they are going to go on to Girard's gate.

Love the reference to "The Paladin is your Pal"

[spectralphoenix]

Yes, Xykon is a bad mofo and has enough firepower to annihilate a lot of enemies, but... Could he resist what would amount to a Zerg Rush by humongous quantities of goblinoids, especially if Redcloak were there to help them out?


With serious DR, an immunity to critical hits, and a fear aura? Yes.

[Lvl45DM!]

Well with redcloak? actually they have a good chance since theres alot of priest gobbos

[ZombieSanta]

Curtains for us: Monster in the not so dark seems to be see-through?

[Edhelras]

Ah... to have my human fighter, with his greatsword, and all those feats (improved crit, weapon focus and spec. and greater etc....) - and then Great Cleave my way through that bunch of goblins.... so sweet.... :smallbiggrin:

[Roderick_BR]

:redcloak: Thank you, thank you my faithful...1...2...3...4...5... hmm.... 6 loyal orc brethen, and all you goblin guys.

His icon needs to be updated.

[Pigkappa]

OK, not serious there... maybe ALL music in OOTS has green notes.


Nope - last panel http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html.

[Fafnir13]

The goblins to the right in the first few rows (near Redcloaks hand) are making my eyes bug a bit. Either there on a hill, they are larger then the other goblins, or perspective is hard to do when creating a crowd of hundreds.

[Agi Hammerthief]

They found the phylactery, and Redcloak is going to announce he's about to leave the city for a while. Seems fairly likely.

he sure isn't weaing the phylactery round his neck

[Belkster11]

Uh oh. This reminds me of what I read of Lincoln's assassination... well, not the play part, but the scene seems similar... a box style veranda.

Also, the foreshadowing title...

I sincerely doubt that's gonna happen to Redcloak. Many world leaders stand on box-style verandas when they give out important speeches. It's how they display their prowess.

If Reddy meets death, I think it's gonna be death on a battle, not death via knife in spine when he's not looking.

[Pandabear]

One, two, many, lots.. still quite a considerable army even after the siege..

[Beanie]

he sure isn't weaing the phylactery round his neck

It's possible that Xykon won't let Redcloak have it back considering what happened. It's not like he needs it anyway.

[Teddy]

Is the goblin to the centre right a half-hobbo? His color seems to be slightly more yellow than the rest of the gobbos.

[blueblade]

he sure isn't weaing the phylactery round his neck

Not sure if that was sarcasm, but he mentioned in a previous strip that he had a spare symbol, which is almost certainly what he's wearing.

[Blas_de_Lezo]

Thanks Giant! :smallsmile:

[Agi Hammerthief]

Not sure if that was sarcasm, but he mentioned in a previous strip that he had a spare symbol, which is almost certainly what he's wearing.
not sarcasm,
just a cheep pun on the shape of his original holy symbol

[Purgatorius]

Is the goblin to the centre right a half-hobbo? His color seems to be slightly more yellow than the rest of the gobbos.

I was noticing that as well.
I'm not familiar with the DnD world. Perhaps someone who is can tell if there are halfbreeds of that kind?
Or maybe it's just the strange light in the city playing tricks...

[Teddy]

I was noticing that as well.
I'm not familiar with the DnD world. Perhaps someone who is can tell if there are halfbreeds of that kind?
Or maybe it's just the strange light in the city playing tricks...

A goblinoid-goblinoid half-breed is much easier to think of than a orc-human half-breed, so it certainly should exist some of them (although, I don't think there is any template for it). It's deffinitely not the light.

[talkamancer]

Are either of the hobgoblin clerics wearing the philactery ?

[Teddy]

Are either of the hobgoblin clerics wearing the philactery ?

Nope, the phylactery is golden with a white middle.

[spectralphoenix]

Well with redcloak? actually they have a good chance since theres alot of priest gobbos

All of whom are low-level, and weren't aware they were going to be fighting a lich when they prepped spells this morning. And clerics, particularly low-level clerics, really don't have much in the ranged smiting department.

And it's been established that Xykon is substantially more powerful than Redcloak.

[Gagnrad]

Why would they need him to pull a rope? Sounds weird. Either it is because the "Not so good at pulling" is just there to give further clues, or Redcloak might expose MitD to the masses of goblinoids!

[RMS Oceanic]

Ooh, a visual reference to Right-Eye!

I won't go into detail, but reassuring himself that it will all be worth it shows he's still following the mentality he showed in Start of Darkness. I'm keenly interested in what 702 brings, because I think Redcloak is going to be making a decision he doesn't like, all in the interest of the Plan. Either that or whatever progressive thing he's going to attempt will be completely ruined by Xykon and/or Team Peregrine.

[Mant]

***yawn***

[Ellye]

I wonder about the elf team that infiltrated Azure City....

[Bedinsis]

The vast amount of hobgoblins reactivated my stage freight. Impressive, Mr. Burlew.

[Antacid]

Demon roach masturbation joke ftw.

[Moridin]

I didn't like the panel in the third line where MitD is on the right and on the adjacent panel on the left. It makes the division between panels kind of difficult to see, since he's all dark and the division is black. But I liked all the other stuff on this strip!

[CoffeeIncluded]

...*Gulps*

I have a bad feeling about this.

[Irbis]

A goblinoid-goblinoid half-breed is much easier to think of than a orc-human half-breed, so it certainly should exist some of them (although, I don't think there is any template for it). It's deffinitely not the light.

Yeah, but I think it might be some other kind of goblinoid, just like that blue goblin was a psionic one. What are likely candidates? :smallconfused:

[Killer Angel]

***yawn***

:smallconfused:
Is this your comment?
without even bother to explain?

[JustRain]

Ahhh he's Hitler!!! :smalleek:

[Nights1stStar]

Hm, seems that Redcloak doesn't feel confident anymore :smallcool:Heh...he hasn't actually felt confident since the middle of Start of Darkness, but as anyone who read the prequel books would know, Redcloack is very good at self-delusion.

But damn, this comic almost made me cry. :sniff: So many subtleties...

And the elves who are invading the city...if they succeed, it's not going to help Redcloak...not at all. All the Redcloack tearjerkers keep wanting to root for both sides, but I know that Redcloack's side's the one which has to go down simply b/c of Xykon.

[Wolf_Plague]

Ahhh he's Hitler!!! :smalleek:

I think not... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEMXaTktUfA)

[dogmac]

You know, for a red cockroach, that could be interpreted as a rather blue comment

[Barlen]

Nice anticipation comic! Leaves you eagerly waiting for the next one. I love the way Redcloak is basically talking to his brother in the mirror.

Also I suspect that "Oh! OK, I should warn you that I'm much better at pushing than pulling" is likely A new clue for :mitd:
Possibly a reference to what he did with O-chul and V.

I like the idea that he put down the umbrella to pull the rope. The umbrella isn't just sitting on his head (it needs to be held) and its not what is causing the darkness. The darkness is still there while the umbrella is on the ground.

[Super_slash2]

This comic actually makes me feel really sad. After having come closer to making a free nation for Goblins where they have their own city and structure, the fact that the elves are coming to destroy them once again just makes this strip really poignant.

If Redcloack leaves and they're slaughtered in his absence, even more so.

Nice strip though. I'd say that the MiTD went the other way and acted TOO stupid but then, it's MiTD and I'll take what silliness I can get before what I expect to be a slew of sad strips.

[Neopolis]

What a twist. We haven't seen non-wordy comics in a while, have we?

And I don't think we've seen Redcloak do that somewhat silly-looking bland goblinoid expression in a while, either...

[Kareasint]

Redcloak is probably going to announce how the city will be run after he leaves. Xykon stated that they would be teleporting out to Girard's Gate once the phylactery is located. This can take a limited number of minions with him. Xykon is probably planning to kill and raise dead at the new site for expendable troops.

[Fearabbit]

So, does anyone have a theory why they needed Monster-san to pull the curtain?
I guess it's because of the magical shadow around him - maybe there wasn't enough space on the balcony so that the guy who opens the curtain would be seen from the crowd. This way, they only see a (dramatic) shadow behind Redcloak.

What Monster-san says about pushing and pulling is a very general statement, by the way. I don't think it says anything about him.

[Burley]

Dunno if anybody else noticed this, but in the splash panel there is one goblin whose greenish tint is slightly off. His skin is lighter, and I point this out, because as far as I have seem, everything has the same color palette. I've never seen a goblin or hobgoblin have a different shade of coloring without them being a plot-worthy character.

Perhaps ol' Split-Pea here is a new NPC, or perhaps a Doppleganger! GASP!

[Prime32]

Dunno if anybody else noticed this, but in the splash panel there is one goblin whose greenish tint is slightly off. His skin is lighter, and I point this out, because as far as I have seem, everything has the same color palette. I've never seen a goblin or hobgoblin have a different shade of coloring without them being a plot-worthy character.

Perhaps ol' Split-Pea here is a new NPC, or perhaps a Doppleganger! GASP!It was mentioned on the last page. I, too, assumed him to be a half-breed.

[Brendan]

When he spoke into the mirror, which made the reflection look like the right, not the left eye was remaining, he spoke to

right-eye, and was apologizing for killing him, meanwhile, making it look like he had a good chance of making the death worthwhile.

[Fitzclowningham]

I agree with the previous posters: they've found the phylactery. Otherwise, they'd all be in the sewers. Reddy is about to give his farewell oration.

On another note, I wonder if anyone told the elves that Xykon and Redcloak were planning to leave the city soon.

[RickDaily12]

Dunno if anybody else noticed this, but in the splash panel there is one goblin whose greenish tint is slightly off. His skin is lighter, and I point this out, because as far as I have seem, everything has the same color palette. I've never seen a goblin or hobgoblin have a different shade of coloring without them being a plot-worthy character.

Perhaps ol' Split-Pea here is a new NPC, or perhaps a Doppleganger! GASP!

Lol, yeah, I reached that same conclusion too.

EDIT: Or rather, what I meant was, "ol' Split-Pea" here could just be a ghoul or ghast/goblin.:smalltongue:

Great comic, Giant.:smallwink:

Also, speaking of more interesting deductions... has anyone else noticed that ALL the goblins have gathered in a pretty freaking big group, unarmed (except for armor) and defenseless... during an elven attack?! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html)

I don't know about you guys... but I'm seeing a MAJOR goblinoid bloodbath coming soon.... REALLY soon...:smalleek::smallamused:

[warmachine]

In D&D sociology, evil societies, such as hobgoblin tribes, leaders maintain power by intimidation and risk backstabbers and rivals. Yet Redcloak can walk around without bodyguards and receives cheers that aren't enforced by loyalists. Now that's popularity!

[Turkish Delight]

How cute. Azure City has become a goblinoid Mecca.

How tragic the whole thing is probably about to come crashing down around their ears. And as the nation he worked so hard to forge burns in the midst of Elven infiltration and attack, presumably Redcloak won't have any choice but to leave with Xykon and the rest of Team Evil for the next gate, removing all the high-level defenders from the city.

[Selene]

I want panel 5 as a poster. Keep looking in that mirror, Redcloak, and may his ghost haunt your dreams.

[Morty]

I agree that the city being attacked by Team Peregrine right now or soon after Redcloak leaves is very likely. And it'd make him even more bigoted and hateful, as he'd now be certain that PC races can't be reasoned with.

[omglolnub]

Ahhh he's Hitler!!! :smalleek:

That was my first thought too, especially because it look like he has his hand up in the Nazi salute. My second thought was the pope, and now I have a disturbing image of Pope Hitler stuck in my head.

[HandofShadows]

Ah Redcloak, going for the world record for lying to himself.

[Onyavar]

Is the goblin to the centre right a half-hobbo? His color seems to be slightly more yellow than the rest of the gobbos.

Since no-one said this before: Has Redcloak maybe impregnated some Hobgoblin women? Does someone know about the goblin moral concept concerning reproduction?

The light-green goblin is a half-breed for sure, the rest of of the green ones might also be immigrated goblins, as others proposed.

[Teddy]

Also, speaking of more interesting deductions... has anyone else noticed that ALL the goblins have gathered in a pretty freaking big group, unarmed (except for armor) and defenseless... during an elven attack?! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html)

I don't know about you guys... but I'm seeing a MAJOR goblinoid bloodbath coming soon.... REALLY soon...:smalleek::smallamused:

A covert insert team isn't going to attack ~20000 hobgoblins head on. Even though they're unarmed, 20000 is an overwhelming number and the alarm will attract the attention from higher-level characters such as Xykon and Redcloak. It would be an excellent opportunity for some major sabbotage, though.

[Blaznak]

Oooooh! Very cool. I like the look for Redcloak!

[Teddy]

That was my first thought too, especially because it look like he has his hand up in the Nazi salute. My second thought was the pope, and now I have a disturbing image of Pope Hitler stuck in my head.

How many dictators haven't ever saluted their cheering crowds by waving to them from a balcony? That's like in their description or something.

[Querzis]

How many dictators haven't ever saluted their cheering crowds by waving to them from a balcony? That's like in their description or something.

Thats in the description of any famous leader, regardless of if they are dictators, kings or presidents.

Anyway, I stopped feeling any sympathy for Redcloak after reading SoD but I really feel sorry for all those hobgobelins and goblins who will most likely get killed as soon as Xykon, Redcloak and Tsukiko leave.

[whitemane]

So does this mean that Elan is going to be jealous now that Redcloak gets to wear a cool eyepatch and look dangerous?

[Mant]

:smallconfused:
Is this your comment?
without even bother to explain?

It's a pretty clear display of boredom.

Do you even need explanation?

[Teddy]

So does this mean that Elan is going to be jealous now that Redcloak gets to wear a cool eyepatch and look dangerous?

Or he will start the Eyepatch Club, and girls can't join (but what will pirate-Haley do then? :smallconfused:).

[SaintRidley]

Hm, seems that Redcloak doesn't feel confident anymore :smallcool:

He's talking

to his brother.

[Phishfood]

I should know by now not to read oots with anything in my mouth....new keyboard time.

[@gmail.com]

He talked to Right-eye in the mirror, didn't he?

"It'll all be worth it".

Who is he trying to convince, anyway? Right-eye, wherever he is? Or himself?

[zql]

So, does anyone have a theory why they needed Monster-san to pull the curtain?
I guess it's because of the magical shadow around him - maybe there wasn't enough space on the balcony so that the guy who opens the curtain would be seen from the crowd. This way, they only see a (dramatic) shadow behind Redcloak.



As far as I can tell the only reason for MitD to be the one who pulls the curtain is narrative. In the last few strips we've seen Team Evil actions through his eyes, so we're taking his point of view on this too. Otherwise it could be too abrupt. This trope is common when introducing in media res scenes because helps identification: we know about RC's presentation as much as MitD.

[Ikialev]

"I have a dream"?

[RoninAngel]

Poor Redcloak. :smallfrown:
He puts on a tough front, but inside, really all sad. Poor little guy. [single tear/]

[Shreav]

Okay, so ...


The strip's title, "Curtains for You," would appear to foreshadow somebody's (Redcloak's?) death;
I can't imagine that they really needed the MitD's strength to open the curtains, so the stuff about him/her having more difficulty pulling than pushing is probably an intentional drop-in and not just humour; and
Does anybody want to count all the goblinoids to get an idea of the size of the army?

[Teddy]

Okay, so ...

3. Does anybody want to count all the goblinoids to get an idea of the size of the army?

I won't, but they should at least be ~20000, perhaps more if they've had a large immigration.

[Raging Gene Ray]

It was mentioned on the last page. I, too, assumed him to be a half-breed.

Maybe he's just a pasty nerd who spends most of his time in a dark basement away from the sun?

[Hardcore]

"The supreme leader" thing always BEGGED for this scene, but I never saw that until now.
What the One eyes speech is going to be I don't know but I AM going to compare it to the speech of the Union adress by Barak!

[One Skunk Todd]

I can't imagine Rich would have the elves attack while Redcloak is addressing them. A credible threat to this new Goblin city seems like one thing that might cause RC to disobey/rebel against Xykon. I can't imagine X caring if all the goblins die or AC falls to the elves.

I could see Rich either having Xykon wipe out most or all of the goblins just to spite RC or remind him who's in charge. Or more likely have the elves attack after they leave with RC none the wiser.

[Hardcore]

The situation is really up side down; he is a dictator, but for the "other" side this is how thing are expected to be! He is like their Obama! So, when he talk to his brother in the mirror, he can do it knowing he is doing the right thing, as he is going to make a speech in front of thousands of supporters!
just like these goblin approved of him when invading Azure City (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0422.html)

[Elfich]

I don't anticipate seeing Red Cloak's speech. This thread arc is all about the Monster in the Darkness (MitD).

As we are watching the MitD, we get a chance to peak in on the rest of Team Evil. The next couple of updates will involve the MitD interacting with the other members of Team Evil so we can get a quick recap on the status Team Evil, both individually and as a group. So all the prime characters will stick their head in: Tsukiko, Red Cloak, Xykon. And we will see most or all of their supporting characters as well: Wights, Goblins, Jyrx (Red Cloak's immediate Aide). Each of those characters will put in their cameo for the episode and the MitD will move along.

Plus we'll get a group update: Snarl, Phylactery, World Domination, The Dark One.

One of two things will happen at the end of this arc: MitD finds the phylactery, MitD get's his scrying cast on O'Chul.

[Hardcore]

Good point. It can be so that this is just Rich's way to give us a 'short' status report on team evil, and then zoom in on some other group.

[ScottishDragon]

wow,that is ALOt of goblins,how is the order gonna kill them all?

[Water-Smurf]

Oh Redcloak. :smallfrown: He's left justifying himself to a reflection of his brother.

I don't know what I want to happen anymore. I know that I want goblinkind to have equality, but how is that possible? Their war and hostile takeover has only started more hatred among the humans and elves, the same way the Dark One's overarching threat of war did. He's only repeating history.

Did he sacrifice everything for nothing? At this point, I think the utopia he dreamed of is impossible.

[SteveMB]

When he spoke into the mirror, which made the reflection look like the right, not the left eye was remaining, he spoke to

right-eye, and was apologizing for killing him, meanwhile, making it look like he had a good chance of making the death worthwhile.

I have a feeling that

it's all leading to Redcloak ultimately realizing that, no, it wasn't worth it....

[Ancalagon]

Is it just my sight or did the quality of the comic improve?

[SteveMB]

I could see Rich either having Xykon wipe out most or all of the goblins just to spite RC or remind him who's in charge. Or more likely have the elves attack after they leave with RC none the wiser.

The latter seems more likely; so far all we've seen is a preliminary incursion force sent to like up with the Resistance and gather intel. It'll be a while yet before a full-scale battle to liberate the city can be undertaken.

Of course, if Azure City is re-conquered and the goblinoids slaughtered after Redcloak leaves, he's bound to find out eventually... the interesting question is how much he'd blame Xykon, and how much he'd blame himself.

[sombrastewart]

Maybe he's just a pasty nerd who spends most of his time in a dark basement away from the sun?

I can't help but shake the feeling that he's one of the elves under an Alter Self or something.

[Scarlet Knight]

Since no-one said this before: Has Redcloak maybe impregnated some Hobgoblin women? Does someone know about the goblin moral concept concerning reproduction?

The light-green goblin is a half-breed for sure, the rest of of the green ones might also be immigrated goblins, as others proposed.

"My brothers, verily for those who bled with me to take this city are my brothers. We few, we happy few; happy but too few. We need more goblins to ensure that this city will endure. Therefore let the word go forth that today is a day of procreation! Be fruitful and multiple! I will be personally recruiting top female goblins in my room from the front row with big ...ears"

:smallbiggrin:

[Criil]

The whole pull/push thing is likely a jab at 3.5's grapple rules. Pushing an object is a simple Bullrush with an opposed Strength check, while Pulling an object would involve initiating a Grapple, which is itself a complex action involving touch attacks, the opponent trying to figure out whether to use a move action with a grapple or a standard action with an escape artist check to escape, and rolling a lot of opposed grapple checks that The Monster probably would rather not have to deal with.
Plus with the target being a rope, it would likely get a synergy bonus to its escape artist check as the grapple would involve a rope, and The Monster doesn't want to look silly losing a grapple to a rope.

[Thrax]

Wow, Redcloak is going schizophrenic. Not good. I mean... not evil.

[infiniteviking]

Oooooooooooooooh. Redcloak talking to his mirror-image... chilling. And MitD is awesome as always.~ Good comic; I'm looking forward to seeing what that gathering is about!

[DabblerWizard]

I wonder what, will be worth it.

Oh ominous comic strips. :smallsmile:

[TheBlackShadow]

Aaawwww.

:redcloak:LONG LIVE LORD REDCLOAK!!!:redcloak:

[the_tick_rules]

Couldn't the gobos have done it?

[Nilan8888]

Certainly a nice comic. There's more going on with Team Evil these days, it feels, than with OOTS.

A few thoughts/observations.

1. The green heads in the crowd: the other goblins have not been referenced (save one strip concerning the journey to the Oracle, I think) since the end of Durokan's dungeon. Was their presence meant to underscore the point that "the plan" ISN'T worth it? Meant as a visual cue to how he's already responsible for the death of so much of his own kind in order to serve it?

2. Whatever is coming in Redcloak's speech, it's probably going to be on something NEW. If not unexpected, then at least a particular turn of events. At least a week or so has passed since we've last seen Team Evil. There's been more than enough time to have speeches like this and carry out Xykon's standing orders as he gave them last time we saw these folks. It wouldn't make much sense to put this al together just for it to be a re-iteration of "everyone really try to find the phylactery".

3. While it does seem that it's unlikely for a team of 4 elves -- or while we're at it, even 100 teams of 4 elves -- to take on that crowd of thousands, it does bear thinking that this speech would probably be known well before it was given and that there's a strong possibility the resistance might try to use this to thier advantage. If there was something they wanted to steal, for instance, now might be the appropriate time.

4. Where is Xykon? Maybe I'm misremembering but it's been habit, it seems, to lead with Xykon when switching back to team evil -- probably becuase he's a popular character. But there's been 3 strips now with no sign of him other than visual or dialog cues, and it doesn't look like he'll necessarily be making an actual appearance in the next strip, either.

Is it possible that Xykon's being held back a few strips on purpose so as to make his appearance feel more significant? Maybe there'll be a surprise or two when we next see him?

[Asis]

For all the development that the gobbo races had, for all the justifications that Redcloak himself has (bad with a good cause) and for all the suffering that those races suffered at the hands of Humans and Xykon alike, all I'd do, if I were there, is to throw as many intensified fireballs as I can to the crowd.
I mean, they may be right, but they're still a danger to the other races and they're still living in a stolen land.

Does that make a short-sighted bigot?

[Conuly]

I mean, they may be right, but they're still a danger to the other races and they're still living in a stolen land.

Well, we could say that about a lot of people, both in the Stick-verse and in the real one (and in other fictional works as well), but that doesn't mean we really do get to kill everybody.

[Zxo]

Yay! Right-Eye appears in the comic, even if only as a mirror image...

I can't wait for the speech.

[cyan-shine]

Hahahaha the last panel is teh funny !:smallbiggrin:

[factotum]

I agree with the previous posters: they've found the phylactery. Otherwise, they'd all be in the sewers. Reddy is about to give his farewell oration.

If they'd found the phylactery Redcloak would already be gone--Xykon said they'd be teleporting out 2 rounds after it was found! I can't imagine him wanting to give Redcloak the time for a rousing leaving speech before they go.

[Querzis]

I mean, they may be right, but they're still a danger to the other races and they're still living in a stolen land.

Or its the other way around, the humans are still a danger to all the monster races and they still wont let them have a land of their own. Dont get me wrong, I think Redcloak is a hypocrite whos totally delusional and very evil. But that only apply to him, I wont doom the entire goblin race just because of his actions. Right-eye was pretty much the most rational and peaceful guy in SoD. After all, unlike the paladins in SoD, the goblins at least have the decency to take prisonners. Redcloak is evil but as a whole, the goblins never did anything nasty that the humans had not already done to them.

[Elfey]

He talked to Right-eye in the mirror, didn't he?

"It'll all be worth it".

Who is he trying to convince, anyway? Right-eye, wherever he is? Or himself?

Right Eye and himself. Redcloak, or Left Eye, has sacrificed everything in life for the plan. EVERYTHING. He convinced himself it was worth it.

He's starting to lose it, I think, because now everything he looks in a mirror he sees his brother. That, combined with recent events, reminds him deeply of what it has cost him and how he's not even really in control of his own plan.

Oh and for the reference, I think it's more Peron inspired (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Spy3Nd2D6w)

[TheBlackShadow]

For all the development that the gobbo races had, for all the justifications that Redcloak himself has (bad with a good cause) and for all the suffering that those races suffered at the hands of Humans and Xykon alike, all I'd do, if I were there, is to throw as many intensified fireballs as I can to the crowd.
I mean, they may be right, but they're still a danger to the other races and they're still living in a stolen land.

Does that make a short-sighted bigot?

Hmm, you do make some good points here, and you do recognise the possibility that you might be wrong, so no offence, but personally I have a really hard time thinking of Redcloak and the International Pan-Goblinoid Emancipation League as Evil. I mean sure, they have slaughtered thousands of humans and enslaved the rest, but thats no worse than what the other races have been doing to them for a thousand years, and they ARE fighting for their own freedom against people who have treated them like excrement for centuries. Does that justify their actions? No, of course not, but it doesn't justify the actions of, say, the Sapphire Guard, either. Overall, they are no better than the other races themselves, so are they really Evil? Now Xykon - THAT is evil, because he causes wanton destruction for no purpose other than his own enjoyment, but Redcloak and the Goblins are, relatively speaking, at least, reasonable, with something not entirely unlike a good motivation.

Personally, rather than throwing fireballs at them, I'd prefer to find a way to help emancipate the Goblins and end the war as peacefully as possible, perhaps forcing a stalemate between the two sides and trying to convince the Goblins to relocate to somewhere worth living and giving back AC, while forcing the other races to recognise the Goblins as an equal sentient species in their own right.

[Enlong]

"It'll all be worth it. You'll see."

Amazing how those seven words sum up Redcloak so well.

[Kome]

Overall, they are no better than the other races themselves, so are they really Evil?

Yes. Yes, they are. For two reasons. The first is the cliche "two wrongs don't make a right" variety. Just because evil was committed against you does not excuse your own acts of evil.

The second reason they're evil is by their actions. Redcloak specificially chose Azure City to invade, to get personal revenge, when capturing ANY gate would work towards The Dark One's goal. He delighted at the thought of getting back at "them." The hobgoblins enslaved Azure City, and are amused at torturing their slaves. The Sapphire Guard has, to date, shown none of that. No slavery, no perverse personal joy in breaking down their enemy's morale or spirit. The Sapphire Guard is better than the goblins, even if the entire human race is not.

I'd even go so far as to say Redcloak is worse than Xykon (not more Evil, but just worse). At least Xykon has the spine to admit he's a complete monster. He's honest, he's straightforward, and he seems to understand himself. It's actually kind of refreshing to see that in a villain and I appreciate how Rich has fleshed out Xykon's character (and yes, both puns were intentional). Redcloak... he's a coward who refuses to see just what he has become. He has to constantly console himself that "It'll all be worth it."

Right-Eye had the correct idea in SoD. Stop seeing life as a competition - who has what, who has more, who hates whom - and strive to personally make the best with what you've got. Redcloak seems more content to simply take what others have than to actually earn anything.

What Rich has done with Redcloak is simply amazing. I've yet to feel such animosity towards a comic villain.

[hamishspence]

Redcloak specificially chose Azure City to invade, to get personal revenge, when capturing ANY gate would work towards The Dark One's goal. He delighted at the thought of getting back at "them."

And, ensuring the Sapphire Guard never slaughters any more goblin families.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0466.html

"At least no more young goblins will have to watch their families getting slaughtered by blue-clad humans."

[Fitzclowningham]

If they'd found the phylactery Redcloak would already be gone--Xykon said they'd be teleporting out 2 rounds after it was found! I can't imagine him wanting to give Redcloak the time for a rousing leaving speech before they go.

Thing is, I remember it as "everybody drop everything and search for the phylactery NOW." But you're right about the teleporting two rounds after it's found thing.

Now, how to square the circle...? There's no way in hell Xykon would allow thousands of goblinoids, to say nothing of Redcloak, to stand around doing nothing if the location of the phylactery was still unknown, and there's no way that Xykon would not have teleported at the very least himself, Redcloak, Tsukiko, MitD, and Jirix out of there no later than two rounds after they had possession of it.

All of which, imo, leaves two possibilities: 1) They found the phylactery somewhere from which Xykon is the only one who can retrieve it, and he is away doing so; or 2) phylactery found or not, Xykon's body has been destroyed, and he isn't teleporting anyone anywhere for the moment. I'm pretty sure under #2 that the phylactery has at least been located, otherwise everyone would still be looking for it.

[Kome]

And, ensuring the Sapphire Guard never slaughters any more goblin families.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0466.html

"At least no more young goblins will have to watch their families getting slaughtered by blue-clad humans."

The only families we've ever seen getting slaughtered by the Sapphire Guard were the ones in a village that was more or less dedicated to The Dark One's plan of capturing a rift and manipulating the Snarl.

It does not at all excuse the summary execution of non-combatants on the part of the Sapphire Guard. Of course, maybe Redcloak would appreciate the irony if any Paladin decided to defend their actions by saying it was for the greater good (after all, those goblin children might grow up to resent the Sapphire Guard so much that they try to restart that cult of The Dark One and pose a threat to reality). Then again, since he's a short-sighted, narrow-minded hypocrite... maybe not.

[SaintRidley]

This off-coloured goblin eludes me. I can't see any difference in any of the goblins.

[hamishspence]

Five goblins in the middle of the picture- the one of those five on the lower right, looks a little paler.

[Allan Surgite]

It's a greenish-yellow, by the way. Just look for all of the greener goblins and you'll find him.

Better hint: from the lowest-right section of the banister, look three goblins into the crowd.

[Enlong]

Also: the Roaches' line.

As a veteran of many battles in Guild Wars, I agree: everyone likes a good pull. A bad pull means everyone dies.

[AyuVince]

Also: the Roaches' line.

As a veteran of many battles in Guild Wars, I agree: everyone likes a good pull. A bad pull means everyone dies.

And World of Warcraft, and pretty much every single MMO where aggro matters.

:redcloak: My fellow goblinkind, the state of our union is strong.

[fractal]

It's also worth noting that thirty thousand hobgoblin combatants were living just fine, unmolested by humans (and who is going to bother a group that strong?), until Redcloak showed up and took them off to battle. They completely started this war, they shouldn't be too surprised if it goes poorly.

[SoC175]

Wild theory 1: SoD-Spoiler Redcloak announces that Xykon is now a foe to be driven off, thus activating the compulsion Xykon cast on the MitD to eat Redcloak should he ever betray him

About elves and goblins: I would say that it's not that certain that the elves would be actually capable of conquering AC from the goblins. During the attack on Lirian's gate Redcloak alreaady brought a goblin army against the elfen homelands and they're were not doing bad. The elven defenders were just as low-level soldiers than the goblins or the AC-soldiers. So it would at least be an even match. The goblin army was attacking the elven homelands for 11 days and pushing deeper into their territory with each day until caught by the guardian virus. One of the dying elven soldiers regretted only having 9hp to give for his country, thus the rank and file of the elven army is not tougher than the goblin or human troops. Team Peregrine is a commando units, but as the goblin ninjas proofed, the elves aren't the only one with such elite units

[Vectner]

I like a good pulled pork, mmm

[SaintRidley]

It's a greenish-yellow, by the way. Just look for all of the greener goblins and you'll find him.

Better hint: from the lowest-right section of the banister, look three goblins into the crowd.

I'm just going to trust you guys.


Colour-blindness has its disadvantages.

[Pokonic]

Hm, i wonder why the yellowish goblin is there? Forshadowing, maybe?

[Teddy]

Hm, i wonder why the yellowish goblin is there? Forshadowing, maybe?

Well, as I said back at page 2, it's probably a hobbo-gobbo half-breed. It's pretty much what you would expect when the two kinds of goblinoids live together as equals.

[SatyreIkon]

El Presidente speaks! A good propaganda show. Makes me wonder what bad news he has to offer his "people"...

[Teddy]

El Presidente speaks! A good propaganda show. Makes me wonder what bad news he has to offer his "people"...

I'm immediately (for the second time today) reminded of the board game "Junta", but Redcloak doesn't really strike me as that "El Presidente".

[Asis]

Wild theory 1: SoD-Spoiler Redcloak announces that Xykon is now a foe to be driven off, thus activating the compulsion Xykon cast on the MitD to eat Redcloak should he ever betray him
I really don't think that this is possible for many reasons. Shortest one is: fly+meteor swarm. Even when there are more than twenty thousand gobbos in the area, they'd still get all killed by Xykon.


I'd even go so far as to say Redcloak is worse than Xykon (not more Evil, but just worse). At least Xykon has the spine to admit he's a complete monster. He's honest, he's straightforward, and he seems to understand himself. Redcloak... he's a coward who refuses to see just what he has become. He has to constantly console himself that "It'll all be worth it."

I agree with you but, after reading Xykon's SoD speech, I have to say that pity also enters in my feelings towards RC. All in all, he's a scared boy who was forced to burn stages and the Lich takes full advantage of that.
As for Xykon... I'll put it in David Lawrence's words:

:xykon:“This is the very worst wickedness, that we refuse to acknowledge the passionate evil that is in us. This makes us secret and rotten.”

[factotum]

It's also worth noting that thirty thousand hobgoblin combatants were living just fine, unmolested by humans (and who is going to bother a group that strong?), until Redcloak showed up and took them off to battle.

I think that's an extremely good point. The hobgoblins had their own city up in the mountains, and while they probably weren't exactly wealthy, they must have been doing OK to be able to support all those people! What has moving to Azure City gained them? Ten thousand hobgoblin dead, the remnants of a ruined city, and a few human slaves. Azure City's main advantage--e.g. being a major trade hub--is presumably shot to heck now it's occupied by the hobboes, and their own attack showed the city is not all that defensible.

On the whole, I think that group of hobgoblins would have been better off if Redcloak and Xykon had never turned up on their doorstep.

[Aaron]

And now team evil begins its march on Girard's Gate. Our heros are running out of time.

:mitd: Gate? What Gate?


Also, this comic was posted the night before Barack Obama's State of the Union Address.


Coincidence?:amused:


Yes, actually.

Yet another real-world reference by Mr. Burlew. Nice one. :smallwink:

[KIDS]

Does the background in the last panel look like a New York skyline for some reference? I can't see those things in the distance as anything other than rows of skyscrapers, as they're a bit too even to be just walls.

[MReav]

I swear, every time I see the MitD handle something, I am convinced it is using some kind of telekinesis.

[Crystalline]

Viva la revolution!

:smallbiggrin:

[Teddy]

Does the background in the last panel look like a New York skyline for some reference? I can't see those things in the distance as anything other than rows of skyscrapers, as they're a bit too even to be just walls.

It's a skyline, yes, but not an especially New York-y one. Far too flat for that.

[Elfin]

Redcloak talking to "Right-eye" in the mirror was a very nice touch.
Excellent comic.

[Teleporker]

So, does anyone have a theory why they needed Monster-san to pull the curtain?
I guess it's because of the magical shadow around him - maybe there wasn't enough space on the balcony so that the guy who opens the curtain would be seen from the crowd. This way, they only see a (dramatic) shadow behind Redcloak.

What Monster-san says about pushing and pulling is a very general statement, by the way. I don't think it says anything about him.

The umbrella does project magical darkness, so I think it is simply too dark in the back of the stage. No magic. Just like when MitD was originally hiding in Durokan's dungeon.

As for why they need him to pull a plain old curtain, I just can't think of any logical reason. As for longshot ones:

1. The hobbos are too lazy or find themselves too important to pull curtains.
2. They want MitD to be "visible" from the back for twelve-gods-know-what-reason.

***

On a separate comment:

1. Too many hobbos not looking for the phylactery, so either the anouncement is way more important (as in Xykon ordered it), or the phylactery has been found.

2. Redcloack is not wearing the phylactery, which I would justify as Xykon not trusting him with it anymore.

So, either he has it himself, or maybe he gave it to Tsukiko (then again, I don't think he'd trust her that much).

[multilis]

...Personally, rather than throwing fireballs at them, I'd prefer to find a way to help emancipate the Goblins and end the war as peacefully as possible
The world was built on lvling and XP and slaughter. But the love of Snarl can cure this, a better world awaits beyond the rifts. Join us, bring your families and climb through the rifts. And help us open up the holes that block Snarl's love from cleaning out the old ways of hate and division to usher in the new of hope, love and brotherhood.

- Holey Brotherhood

[Kish]

1. The hobbos are too lazy or find themselves too important to pull curtains.
2. They want MitD to be "visible" from the back for twelve-gods-know-what-reason.

3. The epic-level monster who travels with their Supreme Leader is important enough to have a role in ceremonies, even if he has no idea how powerful he is himself.


1. Too many hobbos not looking for the phylactery,
There are thousands of hobgoblins! How many do you think can search the sewers at one time?

[derfenrirwolv]

Oh! OK, I should warn you that I'm much better at pushing than pulling"

He's the juggernaut ***** !

[Raging Gene Ray]

Yet another real-world reference by Mr. Burlew. Nice one. :smallwink:

? :smallconfused: Rich was saying "Yes, it is just a coincidence, not a reference to the State of the Union address."

[lothos]

Nope - last panel http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html.

Good observation Pigkappa !
So now the question is, is this a deliberate hint from Rich, or is it just random ? Does MitD have Bard levels ? :-) Let the wild and unprovable speculation begin ! :-)



(snip)
1. The green heads in the crowd: the other goblins have not been referenced (save one strip concerning the journey to the Oracle, I think) since the end of Durokan's dungeon. Was their presence meant to underscore the point that "the plan" ISN'T worth it? Meant as a visual cue to how he's already responsible for the death of so much of his own kind in order to serve it?

Nice idea, this makes sense. I didn't think of that.

[Red XIV]

I have a feeling that

it's all leading to Redcloak ultimately realizing that, no, it wasn't worth it....
I would imagine that if Redcloak ever comes to that realization, it won't be until near the end of the comic.

[Teutonic Knight]

Is that a slightly different colored goblin I see?

[derfenrirwolv]

Yes, hes slightly different colored

Could be a half breed, could be a goblin with a tan. Who knows.

[The MunchKING]

You know, for a red cockroach, that could be interpreted as a rather blue comment

Huh, I thought it was a stage reference. "A good pull" as in a large crowd (Like all those Hobs) showing up to watch.

[The MunchKING]

Uh oh. This reminds me of what I read of Lincoln's assassination... well, not the play part, but the scene seems similar... a box style veranda.

Also, the foreshadowing title...

So a dissattisfied member of the resistance is going to sneak up and pop him in the back of the head with one of those little hand-crossbows nobody but rogues use??

[Roc Ness]

No, I was thinking more of a wight with a standard crossbow. Even though that wouldn't kill Redcloak.

I just get that feeling that Redcloak is going to untimely die...

[The MunchKING]

No, I was thinking more of a wight with a standard crossbow. Even though that wouldn't kill Redcloak.

I just get that feeling that Redcloak is going to untimely die...

Wouldn't fit the whole "Disgruntled Southern soilder using a derringer" thing, but OK.

[RdMarquis]

This may be because I've been watching the Rifftrax for Lord of the Rings, but for a brief moment, I thought they were gathered for Redcloak's birthday party. :smalltongue:

[Teleporker]

3. The epic-level monster who travels with their Supreme Leader is important enough to have a role in ceremonies, even if he has no idea how powerful he is himself.

There are thousands of hobgoblins! How many do you think can search the sewers at one time?

First, yes I agree that not all of them would fit in the sewer, and it would make too little sense to line them all up in the sewer and search a dedicated spot (though I would not put that line of thought anywhere past Xykon either).

However, remember Xykon did not see where the phylactery went after falling inside the manhole, and he does consider the ocean as a possibility. Remember he would not destroy himself to re-generate next to it in the event that it was swallowed by a sea creature.

So even if only a handful of them would fit in the sewers, I would expect a mass of them combing the whole coast of Azure city.

Then again, how many legions would you need to.... ah crap!

[Sijo]

Huh, I just noticed that the Hello-Kitties on MitD's umbrella have FANGS. :smalltongue:

I find it odd that MitD is being used for something as menial as pulling curtains. He used to be Xykon's secret weapon, and now it's like he's just a groupie whom everybody either ignores or tries to find something for him to do.

So, it is official: Redcloak is now one-eyed like his late brother. Is that whom he's addressing in the mirror? I haven't seen Start of Darkness, so I don't know what their relationship was like. Or is he just psyching himself up (presumably Xykon forbid him from regrowing his eye with magic, as punishment for his failure.)

And I really hope that last joke wasn't a reference to what I think it was (but after the one with Haley and the Purple Worm, I cannot completely disregard it.) To me, cheap sex jokes are a sign of running out of good ones. :smalleek:

[CoffeeIncluded]

So, it is official: Redcloak is now one-eyed like his late brother. Is that whom he's addressing in the mirror?

Yes. He doesn't see Redcloak in the mirror. He sees Right-eye.

[Kumo]

And I really hope that last joke wasn't a reference to what I think it was (but after the one with Haley and the Purple Worm, I cannot completely disregard it.) To me, cheap sex jokes are a sign of running out of good ones. :smalleek:Normally yes. But these are the demon roaches. Pretty much all they do is provide cheap jokes ("who doesn't like a nice rack?" "Hey, we could've told you his mind was an empty place years ago.") and run betting rings.

[Phexar]

Hey, is that Jirix I see in the 4th panel, on the right, stating that Redcloak is in his study? Xykon did want him raised after-all, and that hobgoblin does appear to have the same holy-symbol as he did.

[Schaffer1979]

I feel like we're seeing some foreshadowing that someone in this set of panels is going to die.

I have seen "It's curtains for you!" as a metaphor for "Time for you to die".

[Querzis]

Hey, is that Jirix I see in the 4th panel, on the right, stating that Redcloak is in his study? Xykon did want him raised after-all, and that hobgoblin does appear to have the same holy-symbol as he did.

Yes its him, he is the only hobgobelins with a blue holy-symbol.

[OwlbearUltimate]

I think he should have gone with a black eye patch fo sho

[Ultimate Dragon]

he's going to tell them to get out and away from Xykon while they still can, in an amazing amount of deja-vu from SoD

[Hrairoo]

hmm, interesting turn of events... very touching with the reference to his brother. kudos to everyone who called redcloak looking in the mirror...

[Cisturn]

Huh maybe that's what he sees. Right-Eye telling him it'll be worth it to cut his ties with Xykon

[Hrairoo]

he's going to tell them to get out and away from Xykon while they still can, in an amazing amount of deja-vu from SoD

hmm, unlikely. his statement to his brother in the mirror, "It'll all be worth it." seems to contradict this. it implies that he's still going forth with the plan.

[Kumo]

Or he's trying to convince HIMSELF it's worth it, and the reference to his brother is the fact that he lost the eye in the first place?

[Zxo]

hmm, unlikely. his statement to his brother in the mirror, "It'll all be worth it." seems to contradict this. it implies that he's still going forth with the plan.

Yes, but that scene also shows that this is getting harder and harder and that RC needs to convince himself again and again that it makes sense, and is worth it.

By the way, I do not think we'll see some major anti-Xykon rebellion by Redcloak soon. IMHO this is just a small beginning of what will be a long, gradual (and painful) character development.

[Ultimate Dragon]

Yes, but that scene also shows that this is getting harder and harder and that RC needs to convince himself again and again that it makes sense, and is worth it.

By the way, I do not think we'll see some major anti-Xykon rebellion by Redcloak soon. IMHO this is just a small beginning of what will be a long, gradual (and painful) character development.

wow, someone who actually semi agrees with me on something and argues for what I posted. Here, have a cookie. `gives cookie`

[Coidzor]

Is it just me, or have we just seen the first half-hobo goblin ever?

[Kumo]

Is it just me, or have we just seen the first half-hobo goblin ever?

is it really so odd that there are gobo/hobgobos when there are half-orcs?

[Teutonic Knight]

Yes its him, he is the only hobgobelins with a blue holy-symbol.

Then he's also the only hobgoblin to have gotten new armor, a new belt, and a new cloak. And possibly a lighter skin color. I don't think Xykon is THAT generous.

[HUMVEE Driver]

Funny how Obama and Redclock both give a speech at the same time...

[B. Dandelion]

I've thought for a while that the only reason Redcloak is still sane at this juncture in time is that he has been able to keep some things secret from Xykon. Now I'm almost dead certain. Xykon's posed to discover those very secrets, and Redcloak's taken to addressing the dead man whose face accuses him every time he looks into a mirror.

He is losing it. It's only a matter of time before he cracks.

[kierthos]

A little more hinting about the MITD. He has trouble pulling on things and is much better at pushing.... Hmmm...Or it could be a reference for how it's hard for him to do two things at the same time (like holding something and moving something).

It's a "the MitD is not that bright" reference.

[Mojique]

Now Redcloak is a look-a-like of his dead brother Right-Eye.

[Dr.Epic]

I don't like the color of Redcloak's eye path. There isn't enough contrast between that and his skin.

[JonestheSpy]

I find it odd that MitD is being used for something as menial as pulling curtains. He used to be Xykon's secret weapon, and now it's like he's just a groupie whom everybody either ignores or tries to find something for him to do.




I'm a little surprised he didn't pull down half the tower...

[factotum]

Funny how Obama and Redclock both give a speech at the same time...

That was already mentioned, and shot down in flames by the Giant, on the FIRST PAGE. Thank you for playing, though.

[Azukar]

Hehe
1) Looks like goblins and hobgoblins breed true!
2) Looks like we might have a parallel story arc going on?

[Shatteredtower]

Well, this was a very sad strip, to see so much hope projected toward one facing and still trying to deny his most personal failure.

As for the goblin that looks a bit different, it could just be a simple difference in pigmentation. In D&D, for example, goblin skin tones range from yellow to brick red.

It's not like humanity has a monopoly on diversity.:smallwink:

[Jagos]

It's rather depressing to see that Redcloak is still lying to himself...

[Selene]

I'd even go so far as to say Redcloak is worse than Xykon (not more Evil, but just worse). At least Xykon has the spine to admit he's a complete monster. He's honest, he's straightforward, and he seems to understand himself. It's actually kind of refreshing to see that in a villain and I appreciate how Rich has fleshed out Xykon's character (and yes, both puns were intentional). Redcloak... he's a coward who refuses to see just what he has become. He has to constantly console himself that "It'll all be worth it."

Right-Eye had the correct idea in SoD. Stop seeing life as a competition - who has what, who has more, who hates whom - and strive to personally make the best with what you've got. Redcloak seems more content to simply take what others have than to actually earn anything.

What Rich has done with Redcloak is simply amazing. I've yet to feel such animosity towards a comic villain.

This. At least you can respect Xykon's honesty.

SoD:
And ultimately, Redcloak made Xykon what he is. Compare Xykon's behavior as a human to his behavior after RC made him a Lich. He's much more evil and much more dangerous now. Thanks, RC. Also, I will never forgive RC for Right-Eye. :smallfurious:


It's also worth noting that thirty thousand hobgoblin combatants were living just fine, unmolested by humans (and who is going to bother a group that strong?), until Redcloak showed up and took them off to battle. They completely started this war, they shouldn't be too surprised if it goes poorly.

Very true. Also...

SoD:
It's very similar to what happened in Right-Eye's village. They were perfectly happy, and even interacting with humans as equals. No one bothered them at the circus, even though they were the only goblins there. And then Xykon followed Redcloak there. End of happy village.


I agree with you but, after reading Xykon's SoD speech, I have to say that pity also enters in my feelings towards RC. All in all, he's a scared boy who was forced to burn stages and the Lich takes full advantage of that.

I that see you're buying into his "it's not my fault" pity party. That's his whole problem in the first place. He won't take responsibility for his own actions.

[SaintRidley]

For those curious about my inability to distinguish the off-colour goblin/hobgoblin, I ran 701 through a program that will filter the colours to a particular type of colour-blindness.

I see no difference between the actual comic and the simulation.

Here you can put the comic in for yourself to see. (http://vischeck.com/vischeck/vischeckURL.php?origUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.giantitp. com%2Fcomics%2Foots0701.html&simUrl=uploads%2F126469074227276&sensorType=protanope)

701 run through the filter already, for your convenience. (http://vischeck.homeip.net/uploads/126469074227276/)

My girlfriend tells me the MitD's umbrella is sky blue in the filtered version while it's pink in the original. I see no difference. Likewise on things like the various goblinoids.

[ChrisFortyTwo]

For those curious about my inability to distinguish the off-colour goblin/hobgoblin, I ran 701 through a program that will filter the colours to a particular type of colour-blindness.

I see no difference between the actual comic and the simulation.

Here you can put the comic in for yourself to see. (http://vischeck.com/vischeck/vischeckURL.php?origUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.giantitp. com%2Fcomics%2Foots0701.html&simUrl=uploads%2F126469074227276&sensorType=protanope)

701 run through the filter already, for your convenience. (http://vischeck.homeip.net/uploads/126469074227276/)

My girlfriend tells me the MitD's umbrella is sky blue in the filtered version while it's pink in the original. I see no difference. Likewise on things like the various goblinoids.


Wow, that is a significant color difference between the two. I had a friend who showed me something similar on a hunting website with bright orange camo (i.e. - this is what you see, this is what the deer see).

Anyway, I assume you can see the regular goblins (the ones that are slightly more shaded). For a reference, there is one just above the railings leftmost visible post (he has a small 'o' for a mouth, and is surrounded by four open mouthed hobgoblins).

Now, if you start where the railing touches the bottom of the frame, look at there is a half-hobgoblin head. Immediately above that half-head is a hobgoblin who's torso is showing. Next to, and slightly above that hobgoblin is the half-breed. In the color-changed version you linked, I can still tell that he is slightly more shaded than the hobgoblins, but still not as much as the goblins.

[teratorn]

For those curious about my inability to distinguish the off-colour goblin/hobgoblin, I ran 701 through a program that will filter the colours to a particular type of colour-blindness.

I see no difference between the actual comic and the simulation.

Thanks for the links. Something like 8% of the male population in Europe and the USA has some form of colour blindness. It's something I have to take into consideration when choosing a colour table for graphics and plots to present to a mostly male audience (physics and engineering meetings).

[SaintRidley]

Yeah, my girlfriend was able to point out the one that wasn't quite like any of the others.

I honestly just can't tell a difference between the two pictures, so it was quite amusing for me to see her marvel at how I see things. "No wonder you just tend to stick to black for clothing."

[TheBlackShadow]

I'm afraid I must be missing something about Redcloak. Maybe its because I haven't got SoD, but, as I said earlier, I have a hard time thinking of him and the IPGEL as evil, whereas other people seem to hate him with a passion.

Here's the situation as I see it; the Gods, in a pretty ****headed move, created an entire sentient species (the Goblins) for no other reason than to give their worshippers someone to kick around. The Goblin races have been treated like runny excrement ever since, killed indiscriminately for XP and loot, and forced to live in the parts of the world that the other races simply didn't want or couldn't live in. The only time the Goblins rose up against their oppressors, the other races refused to see them as equals and feigned negotiations in order to assassinate their leader, in whom the Goblins had so much faith that he rose up and became a God. Now Redcloak has convinced them to rise up again, so that the Goblins can finally gain their freedom and equality.

Sure, RC and the IPGEL have done some pretty ****ty things towards these ends, but no worse really than what's been done to them for a thousand years. Sure, RC is a bigot and a hypocrite, and I accept he wants to make Goblins superior to humans rather than equals, but as far as I know his only experiences of humans have been bad ones, ie, the Sapphire Guard destroying his home, and his years with Xykon, so you can understand if from this he hasn't developed the most positive attitude towards humans.

Also, some people here have been expressing the opinion that the Hobbos can't have been doing that badly, since they'd developed their own substantial population out in the wilderness, but lets not forget that said wilderness was a barren desert, and that there were only about 30,000 Goblins living there, as compared to the "measly little city-state" of Azure City, which had over 500,000 citizens, and judging from RC's reaction 30,000 is probably a fairly significant fraction of the total Goblin population - he clearly only expected the single, isolated village of 300, and was astounded when he learned of the big Goblin town.

Overall, while Redcloak is undeniably Evil, I simply can't find it in me to hate him the way some others seem to do. What am I missing here? :smallconfused:

[HandofShadows]

Here is an thought. Will Redcloaks becoming so popular, might it cause so problems with The Dark One at some future point? Or start the proccess of making Redcloak a god?

[paddyfool]

I think RC's speech in front of the mirror may indicate strong doubts or moral qualms about whatever Xykon's asked him to do next, which may include whatever he's about to say to those goblins. Alternatively:


He may actually be about to take a huge risk and betray Xykon. "Curtains for you" may, therefore, be indicating that MitD will kill him when he does, thanks to that spell Xykon cast on him way back when. (Probably not, though).

[Fang_14]

Very good. It's good to see how much denial Redcloak has towards what he's doing, even though he knows that Xykon cares not for him or his Goblinoid kin's cause. I believe he's also beginning to more heavily regret his betrayal towards his brother... Also the thing in the darkness was funny.

[Kome]

Just an aside, but I do like that the goblinoids still refer to Redcloak as "Supreme Leader" when he's just second fiddle to Xykon. I wonder how much that grates on his nerves and how much that influences his continuing on the path he is.

[rewinn]

....while Redcloak is undeniably Evil, I simply can't find it in me to hate him the way some others seem to do. What am I missing here? :smallconfused:

Mmmm.... you're not really missing anything (except you REALLY SHOULD get SoD ... you are definitely missing out on some good stuff there.) You are simply figuring out why OOTS is literature, and not just another Good-Guy-vs-Bad-Guy bit of hackery.

[Cbh66]

Just an aside, but I do like that the goblinoids still refer to Redcloak as "Supreme Leader" when he's just second fiddle to Xykon. I wonder how much that grates on his nerves and how much that influences his continuing on the path he is.

Well Xykon doesn't exactly care about ruling over a goblin nation. He's leader of Team Evil, sure, but has really done nothing about the nation. I doubt if he cares about it at all, except in that its citizens could provide a good defense (or search party). In fact, he may actually dislike the nation slightly for keeping Redcloak's attention elsewhere, off of the plan.

[DSCrankshaw]

Overall, while Redcloak is undeniably Evil, I simply can't find it in me to hate him the way some others seem to do. What am I missing here? :smallconfused:

The thing for me is that everything we know about the history of the goblins we learned from Redcloak, so there is a question of reliability. There's also the issue that his way of fixing it includes risking the destruction of the entire universe, including all of goblinkind and their souls. It's a risk he consciously takes, under the belief that it's worth the risk, because the next universe will be better. With that attitude, is it any wonder that he's complicit in destroying the goblin civilizations he does encounter, that he murders his own brother, all in the belief that what he's trying to accomplish is worth the genocide of his own people?

He seems to have backed away from that--a bit--during the battle for Azure City, but he's not on a redemption arc yet.

[Illieas]

from context of Redcloak needing to reassure himself. it seem that what he is about to say isn't going to go over well with the goblinoids.

My guess is that it is call for a forced march to girard's gate.

[SaintRidley]

from context of Redcloak needing to reassure himself. it seem that what he is about to say isn't going to go over well with the goblinoids.

My guess is that it is call for a forced march to girard's gate.

We will march under the water!

[Teleporker]

I that see you're buying into his "it's not my fault" pity party. That's his whole problem in the first place. He won't take responsibility for his own actions.

I do think he is starting to change that. Whether or not he actually is will be seen in future comics, I think. His last slip costed him an eye, and the slip before that costed him a guilt trip over hobgoblin lives.

Let's hold it and see what is he going to slip on next.

[Kome]

Well Xykon doesn't exactly care about ruling over a goblin nation. He's leader of Team Evil, sure, but has really done nothing about the nation. I doubt if he cares about it at all, except in that its citizens could provide a good defense (or search party). In fact, he may actually dislike the nation slightly for keeping Redcloak's attention elsewhere, off of the plan.

Dunno if you've read SoD or not, but if you have, remember...

...Xykon does tell Redcloak he wants everyone to address him as Lord Xykon.

And if not, you should get SoD :smalltongue:


Let's hold it and see what is he going to slip on next.

His own hubris, if the past is any indication.

[SoC175]

With that attitude, is it any wonder that he's complicit in destroying the goblin civilizations he does encounter, that he murders his own brother, all in the belief that what he's trying to accomplish is worth the genocide of his own people?

He seems to have backed away from that--a bit--during the battle for Azure City, but he's not on a redemption arc yet.
Obviously it is, otherwise the Dark One would have long since had a word with his high priest.

[Kumo]

Obviously it is, otherwise the Dark One would have long since had a word with his high priest.

Unless, of course, the dark one doesn't really care about goblins dieing, as long as the gate plan is accomplished.

Seriously, you've all already thought about it, at least >.>

[Teleporker]

And if not, you should get SoD :smalltongue:

His own hubris, if the past is any indication.

I don't have any of the books :frown: ... Long story on why. I do plan to get them sometime though.

While that happens, just say... he doesn't have some little "Bluecloak" brother hiding somewhere, does he?

[oball]

SoD spoiler:

No, but he does have a niece out there somewhere...

[Kumo]

I don't have any of the books :frown: ... Long story on why. I do plan to get them sometime though.

While that happens, just say... he doesn't have some little "Bluecloak" brother hiding somewhere, does he?

i most likely will when i get a debit/credit card...

And the red cloak is the high priest of the dark one's cloak. If there IS a Bluecloak somewhere, he's the high priest of a different god. Maybe the twelve gods, come to think of it?

[Gift Jeraff]

Every hobgoblin cleric seems to have the same blue cloak. Exceptions are the former Supreme Leader and Jirix (last we saw him), whose are still bluish. (The brown cloaked hobbo was a wizard, apparently.)

[Kumo]

Every hobgoblin cleric seems to have the same blue cloak. Exceptions are the former Supreme Leader and Jirix (last we saw him), whose are still bluish. (The brown cloaked hobbo was a wizard, apparently.)

Jirix isn't neccesarily a cleric =/ Don't forget, the wizard had a "holy symbol" too.

EDIT: I hereby nominate Jirix as the best minor character on team evil.

[Gift Jeraff]

Jirix isn't neccesarily a cleric =/ Don't forget, the wizard had a "holy symbol" too.

In DStP, Rich says that, in his mind, Jirix is the same cleric who was with Redcloak and Xykon in the throne room.

EDIT: I'm tempted to agree with that notion, but the existence of the booted wight prevents me to do so. :smalltongue:

[Kumo]

In DStP, Rich says that, in his mind, Jirix is the same cleric who was with Redcloak and Xykon in the throne room.

EDIT: I'm tempted to agree with that notion, but the existence of the booted wight prevents me to do so. :smalltongue:

Best minor character with a name? :smallconfused::smalltongue:

lol... seriously though. I like Jirix the best, for some strange reason.

[Teleporker]

i most likely will when i get a debit/credit card...

And the red cloak is the high priest of the dark one's cloak. If there IS a Bluecloak somewhere, he's the high priest of a different god. Maybe the twelve gods, come to think of it?

I kinda meant the comment in the sense of Redcloak having some unknown little brother somewhere that is going to end up killing him like he killed Right-eye. You know, just for the fun of yet another conspiracy theory geared towards an imaginary ironic ending for him.

"Bluecloak" was just the first name I could imagine for a relative of Reddie. I might as well have come up with "ElectricLimeGreenCloak". I'm actually kinda flattered by the "High priest of some other deity" idea.

:elan: Maybe he's a high priest of Banjo! Yay!
:thog: Not-Nale wrong! Bluecloak is Giggles high-poobah!

[Kumo]

I kinda meant the comment in the sense of Redcloak having some unknown little brother somewhere that is going to end up killing him like he killed Right-eye. You know, just for the fun of yet another conspiracy theory geared towards an imaginary ironic ending for him.

"Bluecloak" was just the first name I could imagine for a relative of Reddie. I might as well have come up with "ElectricLimeGreenCloak". I'm actually kinda flattered by the "High priest of some other deity" idea.

:elan: Maybe he's a high priest of Banjo! Yay!
:thog: Not-Nale wrong! Bluecloak is Giggles high-poobah!

Meh. It's not terribly realistic.

It'd be kind of a cool twist if Jirix was related to redcloak in some way (like actually being half-goblin or being adopted or something) but it's not likely, and frankly, if he introduced redcloak's brother his only real purpose would be to kill Redcloak, and that's a horrible anticlimax.

[StClair]

"sieg!"
"haaaaaaaaah"
"sieg!"
"haaaaaaaaah"

[Evil Mustache]

I read this comic with a friend over for the next two hours we kept saying to eachother:

'You hold something AND move it. ... At the same time!'

We kept cracking up and laughed at how mundane the MitD is with her. :smallsmile:

[Temotei]

I don't know if anyone pointed this out, but one goblin reminds me of Thog.

:thog:

The only difference is his/her face has his/her eyes closed.

Left side of panel.

I don't know why the other goblins didn't remind me of Thog...just the one. :smallcool: They have similar faces. :smallamused:

[Code Black]

Something tells me this isn't going to go well. An emotionally conflicted character with conflict between he feels is right and what he feels he must do about to talk to a crowd of people who idealistically believe he's about to say something in their favor even though in all likelyhood he might not?

This should be interesting. And sad, if that little talk to Right-Eye is any indication.

[factotum]

I kinda meant the comment in the sense of Redcloak having some unknown little brother somewhere that is going to end up killing him like he killed Right-eye.

That would be really terrible writing. How would Redcloak not know he had another brother? I don't think it works particularly well on the "ironic death" front, either. Personally, I still hope Redcloak gets redeemed somehow before all this is over, but he's going to have to develop a much thicker spine than he's shown to date to be able to do that.

[bsparrow]

I kinda meant the comment in the sense of Redcloak having some unknown little brother somewhere that is going to end up killing him like he killed Right-eye. You know, just for the fun of yet another conspiracy theory geared towards an imaginary ironic ending for him.



Well, he does have

a niece. Who we've yet to see outside SoD, iirc.

Does that count?

[Grot._Arachnid]

Awesome comic. The assembled Goblin masses look awesome, the MitD singing cracked me up. Nice dramatic moment for Redcloak with the mirror, and I love how he looks so down in front of the cheering crowd.

[Kish]

i most likely will when i get a debit/credit card...

And the red cloak is the high priest of the dark one's cloak. If there IS a Bluecloak somewhere, he's the high priest of a different god. Maybe the twelve gods, come to think of it?
Start of Darkness minor spoiler:
A newly ordained cleric of the Dark One wears a white cloak. The worldwide leader of the Dark One's religion wears the singular Crimson Mantle. Blue-cloaked goblin priests are probably somewhere in the middle, along with yellow-cloaked ones, green-cloaked ones, and so on.

[Selene]

Well, he does have

a niece. Who we've yet to see outside SoD, iirc.

Does that count?

Yes, you're right. RC is also perfectly aware of that. So yeah, I'd say it counts.

[frogspawner]

Why would they need him to pull a rope? Sounds weird.
Because Lord Xykon (indirectly) ordered it... OOTS662 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0662.html) (last panel).

[TheBlackShadow]

Slightly worrying that we haven't seen Xykon since that strip. Makes me wonder precisely how pissed he is, and what he's actually up to (I don't really see him crawling on his hands and knees through the sewers when he has thousands of perfectly good IPGEL or Undead mooks to do it for him, and he doesn't seem happy with staying put and doing nothing, so what's he up to?).

[Kzickas]

How cute. Azure City has become a goblinoid Mecca.

a goblinoid something yes, but there's a real world equivalent that matches the goblins' relation to Azure City a lot better than Mecca. Going into specifics would probably breach the rule against real world politics though, and comparing real world people to the evil goblins probably counts as flaming so I'll not get into details

[Teleporker]

Well, he does have

a niece. Who we've yet to see outside SoD, iirc.

Does that count?


A niece? As in Right-eye's daughter? If he's got no more brothers, then there is an actual possibility for at least some bad blood between her and Redcloak.

That is, unless she did not like her dad or something along those lines.

I so have to get that book now!


Ahhh... the crackpot conspiracy thickens!

[SoC175]

And the red cloak is the high priest of the dark one's cloak. If there IS a Bluecloak somewhere, he's the high priest of a different god. Maybe the twelve gods, come to think of it?
There was (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0456.html) a high priest of the twelve gods. :smallbiggrin:

[BillyJimBoBob]

Dunno if anybody else noticed this, but in the splash panel there is one goblin whose greenish tint is slightly off. His skin is lighter, and I point this out, because as far as I have seem, everything has the same color palette. I've never seen a goblin or hobgoblin have a different shade of coloring without them being a plot-worthy character.

Perhaps ol' Split-Pea here is a new NPC, or perhaps a Doppleganger! GASP!
Yes, hes slightly different colored

Could be a half breed, could be a goblin with a tan. Who knows.
[And many others]
Poor Rich. He can't even vary a color palate by a few shades without providing a fertile breeding ground for the epileptic trees.
It's Celia in disguise!
It's so sad.
Or it's a member of Team Peregrine, ready to cast AOE spells on the gathered Hob/Goblin masses!
Really.
No, no, I've got it! It's a completely new, never before hinted at new menace, far, far more evil than Zycon(sic) could ever be! Everyone is doomed, DOOMED I TELL YOU!!!

[RickDaily12]

Returning to my earlier theory about a potiential splash attack on all these Hobgoblins...

Ofc I meant this was going to happen when all four key Team Evil members were away from the source of the attack at the time. Xykon, Redcloak, MiTD and Tsuikiko probably wouldn't be there at the inst of the attack (Jirix? has he been raised yet?)

And Remember, their first priority was visiting the unified new Resistance... perhaps they'll also be involved in a potiential surprise attack?

[Kumo]

There was (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0456.html) a high priest of the twelve gods. :smallbiggrin:

maybe a new one? =3

[elonin]

Has Redcloak changed his mind about how he feels about Xyrcon? He probably knows what the amulet was but didn't do anything about it knowing that with it destroyed they could do something about Xyrcon.

[Kumo]

Has Redcloak changed his mind about how he feels about Xyrcon? He probably knows what the amulet was but didn't do anything about it knowing that with it destroyed they could do something about Xyrcon.

... are you talking about the phylactery? The one redcloak actually told us about at the end of the first story arc? >.>

[dsavereide]

If they've found the phylactery (or made a new one?), then they'll be teleporting to the next gate soon. Which means they aren't taking the goblin horde with them. So this city is Redcloak's legacy to them. He has been stalling for months now trying to ensure they will be able to maintain their hold here. It'll be interesting to see what he has to say, but I fear another scene shift.

[Kumo]

If they've found the phylactery (or made a new one?), then they'll be teleporting to the next gate soon. Which means they aren't taking the goblin horde with them. So this city is Redcloak's legacy to them. He has been stalling for months now trying to ensure they will be able to maintain their hold here. It'll be interesting to see what he has to say, but I fear another scene shift.

It's only been 3 chapters, it'll be a while before the next scene shift. Maybe after Tsukiko tells MiTD that the cloister is blocking O'Chul?

Also: the scrying sensor has the same color magic as one of the hobgoblin clerics that healed redcloak near the end of the Azure City under siege arc.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0465.html

[Teleporker]

If they've found the phylactery (or made a new one?), then they'll be teleporting to the next gate soon. Which means they aren't taking the goblin horde with them. So this city is Redcloak's legacy to them. He has been stalling for months now trying to ensure they will be able to maintain their hold here. It'll be interesting to see what he has to say, but I fear another scene shift.

I don't think Xykon can make a new phylactery. That requires transferring your entire life force into it. As far as I know, you can't split it "a la Voldemort".

Whatever it is Redcloak is going to tell them, he's not happy about. You can see it in his face.

The hobbos sure will be left behind though. Xykon doesn't have "Epic Teleport" in his spell list, does he?

[Kumo]

I don't think Xykon can make a new phylactery. That requires transferring your entire life force into it. As far as I know, you can't split it "a la Voldemort".

Whatever it is Redcloak is going to tell them, he's not happy about. You can see it in his face.

The hobbos sure will be left behind though. Xykon doesn't have "Epic Teleport" in his spell list, does he?

If he did, he would've simply done that instead of just walking the whole way to the Azure City countryside

[Conuly]

That requires transferring your entire life force into it.

SoD Spoiler:

Actually, as Xykon said at the time, his soul lives in his body until and unless his body is destroyed. It doesn't stay in the phylactery.

Then again, he may have been bluffing to convince RC it was a waste of time to destroy the phylactery, at least for long enough for him to get some decent back-up plans in place....

[Kumo]

SoD Spoiler:

Actually, as Xykon said at the time, his soul lives in his body until and unless his body is destroyed. It doesn't stay in the phylactery.

Then again, he may have been bluffing to convince RC it was a waste of time to destroy the phylactery, at least for long enough for him to get some decent back-up plans in place....

Didn't redcloak say he created Xykon (well, turned him into a lich)? Wouldn't that mean

he would know exactly how the phylactery works?

[Conuly]

Well, clearly he doesn't, because either A. Xykon knows something he doesn't about how it works or B. Xykon NOW knows something he doesn't about how it works because he successfully bluffed Redcloak into believing something that Redcloak used to know was untrue.

I'm using "bluffed" in the non-D&D sense, but even if I were, that'd be, like, ten times more blatant than Haley's "I'm trying to forge something so stop interrupting me so I can fool you!" line.

[Kumo]

Well, clearly he doesn't, because either A. Xykon knows something he doesn't about how it works or B. Xykon NOW knows something he doesn't about how it works because he successfully bluffed Redcloak into believing something that Redcloak used to know was untrue.

I'm using "bluffed" in the non-D&D sense, but even if I were, that'd be, like, ten times more blatant than Haley's "I'm trying to forge something so stop interrupting me so I can fool you!" line.Wait, so now you're suddenly assuming it's perfectly clear you were already right on a slim possibility tangent? >.>

I don't think it's possible to bluff anybody that well, and if it was, Redcloak would at least argue it a bit when it's a subject he's that well versed in.

...Did he argue it? i haven't read SoD yet but that hasn't been used as a point yet, so...

[gosh]

I have SoD, and when Redcloak turned Xykon into a lich, he clearly knew more about lichdom than Xykon did - Xykon hadn't even thought of the possibility, and when RC first asked, X thought he would be getting turned into some kind of zombie. (Although Xykon was far less competent back then.)

[Kish]

Redcloak counted on Xykon reacting differently to Redcloak threatening the phylactery. Xykon's actual response is, "Go ahead. My soul's not in it now, so it's just a fancy bauble, but if you so much as scratch the paint on that fancy bauble, I'll rip your brother's spine out and use it to strangle you."

Redcloak himself never expresses an opinion on whether Xykon's soul is in the phylactery when Xykon is animate, but his reaction seems to indicate that Xykon is correct and it's not--or Redcloak is even more spineless than advertised.

[Kumo]

Redcloak counted on Xykon reacting differently to Redcloak threatening the phylactery. Xykon's actual response is, "Go ahead. My soul's not in it now, so it's just a fancy bauble, but if you so much as scratch the paint on that fancy bauble, I'll rip your brother's spine out and use it to strangle you."

Redcloak himself never expresses an opinion on whether Xykon's soul is in the phylactery when Xykon is animate, but his reaction seems to indicate that Xykon is correct and it's not--or Redcloak is even more spineless than advertised.



Since a lich's soul is mystically tied to its phylactery, destroying its body will not kill it. Rather, its soul will return to the phylactery, and its body will be recreated by the power keeping it immortal.

Key word there is RETURN, implying it's somewhere else. Though, the passage also implies it's impossible to create more than one phylactery at a time. So unless they know for sure Redcloak's holy symbol is destroyed, they won't even bother to try making a second, assuming it's possible.

So, actually, whether or not it's possible to make another doesn't really matter. They'd still need to find the actual phylactery, destroyed or otherwise.

[samwich 1]

Is it just me or is redcloak doing the facist one armed salute?

[Kumo]

Is it just me or is redcloak doing the facist one armed salute?

Seemed to me like he was holding both his arms up and the other one was outside the frame.

[T_N_J]

This comic instantly made me remember a famous IDF Chief of Staff (i'm Israely), who is known for being charismatic, and, you guessed it - for wearing an eyepatch. :tongue:

This guy is called Moshe Dayan:
http://www.notes.co.il/merhav/user/21285747.jpg

[elonin]

... are you talking about the phylactery? The one redcloak actually told us about at the end of the first story arc? >.>

Wasn't aware that Redcloak knew about the phylactery. He was upset with Xyrcon even to the point of suggesting that at some future point that the goblins would have to do something about him. Given that Redcloak had it that was possible.