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Xenogears
2010-01-27, 11:21 PM
So I was looking through my MM3 and saw the Maug race. It looks really cool. I like everything about it except for the 2HD. I was wondering if someone could make a "lesser maug" that only had one HD. I'm no good at judging balance so I don't feel comfortable making it myself. The LA+3 is fine as is but the second HD is a killer.

Umm. So if anyone is willing to make it for me the only requirement is that I want it to stay large sized. The rest of the abilities are cool but not integral.

Stycotl
2010-01-28, 01:52 PM
off the top of my head, i'd just drop it to 1 hd, and up the LA to +4. but i'm probably alone in not caring much about the LA...

PairO'Dice Lost
2010-01-28, 06:02 PM
Quite frankly, I don't really see anything in the maug that merits anything more than +2 or +3 LA and 0 HD. Construct traits are great and worth +1 LA on their own, but the grafts are special magic items, the "healing from rest" thing is too little healing to really matter, the SR is low and non-scaling, and ignoring hardness for a 1d4 rounds 3 times a day is usually inferior to using a feat to pick up a Stone Dragon maneuver. Adding another 1-2 LA on top of the traits should cover Large size and the miscellaneous bonuses such as high Str and Dex and natural armor.

arguskos
2010-01-28, 06:32 PM
Quite frankly, I don't really see anything in the maug that merits anything more than +2 or +3 LA and 0 HD. Construct traits are great and worth +1 LA on their own, but the grafts are special magic items, the "healing from rest" thing is too little healing to really matter, the SR is low and non-scaling, and ignoring hardness for a 1d4 rounds 3 times a day is usually inferior to using a feat to pick up a Stone Dragon maneuver. Adding another 1-2 LA on top of the traits should cover Large size and the miscellaneous bonuses such as high Str and Dex and natural armor.
What this fine gentleman has said. Maugs are a good LA +2 choice IMO, possibly LA 3, but then again, they're only gonna be meleers, and melee wants nice things. Compare to the Lumi for a decent explanation of what LA +2 buys.

Xenogears
2010-01-28, 07:11 PM
Quite frankly, I don't really see anything in the maug that merits anything more than +2 or +3 LA and 0 HD. Construct traits are great and worth +1 LA on their own, but the grafts are special magic items, the "healing from rest" thing is too little healing to really matter, the SR is low and non-scaling, and ignoring hardness for a 1d4 rounds 3 times a day is usually inferior to using a feat to pick up a Stone Dragon maneuver. Adding another 1-2 LA on top of the traits should cover Large size and the miscellaneous bonuses such as high Str and Dex and natural armor.

Actually the SR is 14+class levels. So it is scaling. Although I'm not terribly into having SR anyway.

arguskos
2010-01-28, 07:37 PM
Actually the SR is 14+class levels. So it is scaling. Although I'm not terribly into having SR anyway.
Melee. Nice things. Should get some. :smallwink:

I do think 1 HD, LA 3 is totally reasonable, and that's just for a stickler DM who demands Hit Dice. LA +3 straight up is fine too I think.

PairO'Dice Lost
2010-01-29, 02:28 AM
Actually the SR is 14+class levels. So it is scaling. Although I'm not terribly into having SR anyway.

Whoops, my bad; the monster block just said SR 14. Even then, linearly-scaling SR that starts at 14 when you're at LA +3 and 2 HD (and thus supposed to be facing level 5-8 enemies) isn't up to par anyway.

Xenogears
2010-01-29, 12:22 PM
Whoops, my bad; the monster block just said SR 14. Even then, linearly-scaling SR that starts at 14 when you're at LA +3 and 2 HD (and thus supposed to be facing level 5-8 enemies) isn't up to par anyway.

Yeah but I was trying to reduce the Maug to a LA+3 1HD (that would get replaced with class levels thank god) creature. So Level+14 SR is.... not terrible. Without CL increasers an equal ECL character (A level 4 Wizard) would have about a 50/50 chance of hitting with spells.

Meh maybe get rid of the SR and the extra HD and call it a Lesser Maug? Does that seem reasonable?

arguskos
2010-01-29, 12:24 PM
Yeah but I was trying to reduce the Maug to a LA+3 1HD (that would get replaced with class levels thank god) creature. So Level+14 SR is.... not terrible. Without CL increasers an equal ECL character (A level 4 Wizard) would have about a 50/50 chance of hitting with spells.

Meh maybe get rid of the SR and the extra HD and call it a Lesser Maug? Does that seem reasonable?
Yeah, that seems pretty much fine.

Stycotl
2010-01-29, 01:15 PM
this is a cool idea. i have a maug character that i made that suffers heavily from racial hit dice and LA, and is ridiculously underpowered compared to his companions. still fun to play, but i have to be super careful about how i enter every encounter.

also, if you kill the thing's SR, then i don't see any problems at all with making it LA +2 or something.

PairO'Dice Lost
2010-01-29, 02:00 PM
Yeah but I was trying to reduce the Maug to a LA+3 1HD (that would get replaced with class levels thank god) creature. So Level+14 SR is.... not terrible. Without CL increasers an equal ECL character (A level 4 Wizard) would have about a 50/50 chance of hitting with spells.

My point with the SR was that at 14 (or even 14+level) it wasn't good enough to merit any extra LA, so you could throw it in with the other little stuff for just +1 LA total. Keeping it or getting rid of it wouldn't really change the LA to a substantial degree.


Meh maybe get rid of the SR and the extra HD and call it a Lesser Maug? Does that seem reasonable?

Yeah, a Lesser Maug sans SR for 1 HD and +2 LA would probably be fine.

Xenogears
2010-01-29, 03:19 PM
Okay thanks everyone. I'll probably go with the LA+2 with 1HD and no SR plan.