Design intent of the Drunken Master [3.5]

[Frosty]

I am currently thinking about redesigning the Drunken Master PrC from Complete Warrior, but I realized that before I go about improving it, I really should have a design goal in mind. To that end, I wish to ask you peeps what you thought the original intent of the Drunken Master as it is written from WoTC, and whether that design can actually work in a game? If even the abstract design needs work, then we'll need to come up with a new goal in mind before I mess with the mechanics.

I see that Drunken Master is supposed to represent some sort of martial arts school that teaches its students to use alcohol to strengthen their fighting techniques. That goal seems fine to be, but I seriously question the crunch they used to try to represent it. I'm not even sure if the school should last 10 levels. I mean, how deep can getting drunk to fight is? Do you need 10 levels to breath 3d12 fire damage? If I were to keep its original design as a fighting school, I'll probably drop it to 7 levels, try to consolidate a lot of its abilities, and make Drink like a Demon scale with levels. What do you guys think?

Here is what I have to far (edited in from later in the thread):


HD: d10
Prerequisites: Great Fortitude, Base attack bonus +3
Improved Unarmed Strike (or monk's version thereof), Flurry of Blows, Evasion

Class Skills (4+Int mod per level): Acrobatics, Athletics, Bluff, Craft,
Perception, Perform, Profession, Sense Motive, Stealth

BAB: 3/4 progression
Saves: Good Fort, Good Ref, Bad Will

Lv Special
1st Drink like a demon (stats), improvised weapons, flurry of blows, AC Bonus,
stunning Fist, unarmed strike
2nd Stagger, Bonus Feat
3rd Drink like a demon (special maneuvers), Bonus Feat
4th Drink like a demon (AC), Greater Improvised weapons, Drunken Step
5th Drink like a demon (For medicinal purposes), Bonus Feat
6th Superior improvised weapon, Knockback
7th Drink like a demon (Drunken flurry), Whirlwind


Flurry of Blows (Ex), AC Bonus, Stunning Fist, Unarmed Strike: Levels of Drunken Master stack with Monk for the purposes of determining the character's AC Bonus, unarmed damage progression, flurry of blows penalties, and the number of Stunning Fist attemps per day.

Improvised weapons (Ex): A drunken master gains proficiency in all improvised weapons and hence does not incur the -4 penalty one would normally have for wielding one. Furthermore, a drunken master's improvised weapon deals as much damage as his unarmed strike plus an extra 1d4 points. A drunken master may also count improvised weapons as special monk weapons, and can flurry with such weapons.

Drink Like a Demon (Ex): A drunken master's body handles alcohol different from other people's. He can drink a large tankard of ale, a bottle of wine, or a corresponding amount of stronger alcohol as a move action. Every drink consumed in this special manner damages the drunken master's Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma by 1 (drunken master's choice). Every hour that passes, the drunken master chooses to repair one of his ability scores damaged by this ability, and that ability score goes back up by one.

Each time the drunken master consumes a drink in this manner, he also gains a number of Alcohol points. The number of points is by default 10, but can be less or more depending on the strength of the drink as determined by the DM. Alternatively, he can take the time to savor the drink as it goes down, and doing so lets him make more efficient use of the alcohol. If the drunken master downs a drink as a full-round action instead, he gains 20 Alcohol points. The drunken master can store at maximum 25 Alcohol points. All the unspent points disappear after a number of rounds equal to 3+drunken master levels since he last had a drink in this manner. He can spend these points in a number of ways to become a terrifying (if hilarious) combatant.

Stats: At first level, the drunken master has learned how to channel his inner drunk into becoming more physically imposing. As a free action, he may spend Alcohol points to increase his Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution by 2 per point spent until the beginning of his next turn. He may spend no more than 4 points on a stat. At 5th level, each point spent increases the stat by 3 instead of 2.

Special maneuvers: At third level, a drunken master is a...well...master at special combat maneuvers. While the drunken master is still drunk (i.e. he still has an ability score that is damaged from alcohol) his BAB is equal to his Hit Dice for the purposes of special maneuvers such as Bullrush, Grapple, Disarm, Sunder, Trip. this includes determining who has The Edge in such maneuvers. In addition, the drunken master may, as a free action, spend up to 2 Alcohol points per turn to augment his special maneuvers further. Each point spent this way gives the drunken master a (stackable) +2 bonus to a special maneuver of his choice until the beginning of his next turn. For example, a drunken master may spend 2 points to be able to get a +4 on all Bull Rush attempts until his next turn. This bonus stacks with feats such as Improved Bullrush.

AC: At fourth level, a drunken master can use his drunken swaying to become harder to hit. As a free action, he may spend Alcohol points to gain a +2 Dodge bonus to AC per point spent until the beginning of his next turn. At 5th level, each point spent increases the AC bonus by 3 instead of 2.

For Medicinal Purposes: At fifth level, a drunken master can claim that he needs alcohol as his medicine...and be telling the truth! As a swift action, he can spend a number of alcohol points up to his class level, and heal himself for 1d6 per point spent in this manner.

Drunken Flurry: At seventh level, a drunken master has mastered the secret art of making a lot of attack while drunk...after staggering around the room once or twice. As a swift action, he can spend 5 Alcohol points to gain, for this turn only, the ability to perform a Flurry of Blows at the end of a charge. It must be a Flurry of Blows and not a normal full-attack.

Stagger (Ex): A drunken master can charge any way he darned well feels like, and hence does not need to charge in a straight line, although he still needs to move at least 10 feet to charge. Also, a drunken master can make a DC 20 Tumble/Acrobatics check at the beginning of the charge. If he does so, his movement through threatened squares during the charge does not provoke.

Bonus Feats: At 2nd, 3rd, and 5th levels, the drunken master gets a bonus feat. These feats must be drawn from the following list, although the drunken master does not need to meet the prerequisites for the feat: Blind-fight, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Disarm, Improved Grapple, Improved Trip.

Drunken Step (Ex): At 4th level, a drunken master has learned to move through the detritus strewn throughout an imprompty tavern battleground. He may ignore the first 10 ft. of difficult terrain per turn. He may take 5-ft steps into difficult terrain.

Greater Improvised weapons (Ex): At 4th level and higher, a drunken master wielding an improvised weapon deals an extra 1d8 points of damage instead of 1d4.

Superior Improvised weapons (Ex): At 6th level and higher, a drunken master wielding an improvised weapon deals an extra 1d12 points of damage instead of 1d8.

Knockback (Ex): Any drunken master knows that a bar brawl isn't REALLY a bar brawl until the walls are receiving new holes via tables or people getting knocked into them. At 6th level, he has taken this to heart and has learned how to knock people back really far with each hit. After a drunken master successfully hits an enemy with a melee attack and deals damage, he can, as a free action, initiate a Bull Rush maneuver. He does not need to move into his opponents space. If the drunken master wins by enough to push the opponent back more than 5 ft., he does not need to move with his opponent to push his opponent back the full length. If he fails the Bull Rush maneuver, he does not need to move backwards or fall prone.

Whirlwind (Ex): At 7th level, a drunken master becomes an epic whirlwind of destruction...at least while drunk. While drunk (has an ability score damaged by Drink like a demon) he can, as a standard action, perform a Whirlwind Attack as the feat in the Player's Handbook.

[Xenogears]

1) It was clearly geared towards monk and yet didn't advance unarmed damage. Also Drinking lowered your Wis further making it anti monk. Yet you basically had to be a monk to qualify for it. Fix this oddity. Either make it more monk friendly (my preffered solution) or make it not require monk only abilities.

2) Stagger is awesome. Improvised weaponry is cool. Most of the rest of the abilities failed to wow me at all. Needs more oomph.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

The concept, as far as I can see, is a monk that uses alcohol to make his movements unpredictable, as well as the other benefits of alcohol(more willing to take risks, don't feel pain as much). I'd make it a 5-level PrC, grant Rage at some point, and have a few defensive bonuses.

[Mongoose87]

Take a look at the 3.0 version from Sword anf Fist. Much better.

[Boci]

Condensing it into 7 levels is a good idea. Get rid of swaying waist at level 3, AC bonus and improved i. weapons at level 4 (just jump striaght to greater i. weapons) and imp[roved feint at level 6.

Make drink like a demon a swift and eventually free action that drains int or wis (characters choice), and make for medical purposes a swift action useable unlimited times per day.

Make it count as a monk for the purpose of improving ac bonus, unarmed damage and stunning fist attempt and their DC, the usual.

Now you have a whacky, drunk fuelled character whose decent power wise.

[Xenogears]

I think the Booze should actually increase Wis. Now hear me out. The effects of this would be to make the monk A) harder to hit and B) more resistant to magic. Sounds like the right idea (using Intuitive Strike or Shiba Protector would also make you hit better but still fits). This would also go to show how different booze is for a Drunken Master and a normal person. The effects are in fact the opposite. Maybe make it +2 at lvl 1 +4 at lvl 3 +6 at lvl 5? One guzzle should do the whole effect so your not spending 90% of your time drinking during the battle (or make it multiple ones but have it start as a standard, then a swift, then a free action with those numbers as max amount +2 each swig?)

I'm not very experienced with balancing stuff tho so this could be way off the mark...

[CTLC]

do a little research into drunken master styles. fight science IS a tv show and has crap for science, but the guy they had was really a master in drunken fighting, and its quite cool.

and you dont actually drink... much... but spitting booze and holding a match to it works !

[Frosty]

1) It was clearly geared towards monk and yet didn't advance unarmed damage. Also Drinking lowered your Wis further making it anti monk. Yet you basically had to be a monk to qualify for it. Fix this oddity. Either make it more monk friendly (my preffered solution) or make it not require monk only abilities.

2) Stagger is awesome. Improvised weaponry is cool. Most of the rest of the abilities failed to wow me at all. Needs more oomph.

I think I will make it more friendly by 1) making the damage only 1 instead of 2, and letting the player CHOOSE whether to damage Int or Wis, instead of both. Also, the bonus to the stats will increase as you havemore Drunken Master levels.

Improvised Weaponry is cool, but it doesn't appear to remove the -4 to-hit penalty for improvised weapons. Is that intentional?

[Starbuck_II]

I'm assuming they were cautious and though it might overpower it.

[SurlySeraph]

Because being able to competently swing a chair is totally overpowered. :smallsigh: Give them proficiency.

[JeminiZero]

Because being able to competently swing a chair is totally overpowered. :smallsigh: Give them proficiency.

It actually might be... if you are a Hulking War Hurler and the chair in question is a 2000 lb adamantium monstrousity :smalltongue:

[Frosty]

I'm also thinking of just completely changing the way alcohol improves upon the Drunken Master. Instead of static, BORING bonuses, how about each time you drink using Drink like a Demon, you get a certain amount of "Alcohol points" (reminiscent of Pathfinder's point-system for raging barbarians and the Ki-pool for PF Monks, or even the Hellreaver's Fury points) which you can spend for different effects? Some of which are bonuses to hit. Some of which are bonuses to special maneuvers. Some of which can be healing or fire breathing. You can even drink again in the middle of combat to replenish some of your points!

[Xenogears]

I'm assuming they were cautious and though it might overpower it.

I think it was probably an oversight but either way it should be given to them. As to choosing Wis or Int to damage. That might be interesting. Allows a normal monk to lose Int for a little while but a Camadine/Kung Fu Genuis monk could dump Wis. That way either can play this class. So thats good.

The breathing fire thing was a kinda cool fluffy ability but terrible mechanically. The headbut thing was just lame. I think you need to come up with more abilities for the Drunken Master. Maybe give it the ability to Flurry on a Charge (since it has flurry already and gains charging abilities. Those don't work together...)

[Boci]

I'm also thinking of just completely changing the way alcohol improves upon the Drunken Master. Instead of static, BORING bonuses, how about each time you drink using Drink like a Demon, you get a certain amount of "Alcohol points" (reminiscent of Pathfinder's point-system for raging barbarians and the Ki-pool for PF Monks, or even the Hellreaver's Fury points) which you can spend for different effects? Some of which are bonuses to hit. Some of which are bonuses to special maneuvers. Some of which can be healing or fire breathing. You can even drink again in the middle of combat to replenish some of your points!

That's a really good idea, but make sure its a swift or free action to drink then, sucks to waste a move actiuon mid combat.

[Frosty]

That's a really good idea, but make sure its a swift or free action to drink then, sucks to waste a move actiuon mid combat.
I think it can remain a Move action, since each drink actually gives a very good amount of points (usually enough to last 3 rounds combat is my intent. 2 If the drunken master goes nova with the points), and stronger drinks give more points. this also gives players incentives to QUEST for THE STRONGEST DRINK POSSIBLE IN DA LANDS! It also makes Dwarven Drunken Masters scary.

They're funny anyways.

[Baidas Kebante]

I think one major goal of the class should be to allow the player to continue leveling as a monk normally does with an alignment change (sort of how Blackguard is the evil continuation of a paladin). So one of the most important features of the class should allow for this.

I also agree that drinking more alcohol should improve wisdom. Although you could argue how drinking affects normal people, famous practitioners (real and fictional) were well known for becoming wiser and better when drunk. They would speak philosophical truths and become even tactically smarter in a fight. The common description of the atypical master was, "The mind is sober but the body is drunk. Clarity of thought with confusing movements."

But most important in my biased opinion, is that it should increase Charisma as well. After all, if being a drunken master can make an old, ugly and smelly beggar still look cool and get the girls, that definitely would translate to a nice hefty bonus. :smalltongue:

[Dust]

Mechanics aside, I'd like to see the special prerequisite fluff remain the same. "Must have gone out partying with other Drunken Masters without making a spectacular fool of yourself and/or dying" always struck me as awesome.

[Frosty]

Mechanics aside, I'd like to see the special prerequisite fluff remain the same. "Must have gone out partying with other Drunken Masters without making a spectacular fool of yourself and/or dying" always struck me as awesome.

Oh yes that is being kept. I am now working on a 7-level progression for it. Do note that this is also compatible with using the Advanced Combat rules from Races of War.

[Frosty]

EDIT: This post is no longer needed since I finished the class.

[Lappy9000]

Take a look at the 3.0 version from Sword anf Fist. Much better.Definitely this.

[Demons_eye]

Give him some thing akin to brew ale as a Drunken master could ended up spending a lot on stronger alcohol.

[ZombieGenesis]

Drunken Master was made to encourage fans of the Jackie Chan film, "Legend of the Drunken Master". We all know it's true!
Honestly though, as funny as the advice may sound, watch this film (I wonder if it's on YouTube...) and you'll find out a lot about the actual martial art. For example, there are several select 'Gods' (or masters) of the art who represent different styles which can be iscolated or mixed.
Bear in mind though, Drunken Arts are meant to simulate the appearance of intoxication, being drunk does in no way help (though for fantasy sake, it could?) and since half the point other than tricking your opponent into overconfidence is to mimic the unpredictable movement patters of the drunk, Agility should be a prime concern. Also, for the same reason, focus should be on hindering opponent modifiers before boosting the players own.

That's just my opinion at least, make of it what you will~

[Brigham]

Drunken Master is the favorite PrC I never had the chance to play.

I like the recommendations so far. Removing unnecessary levels, adding monk progression, etc.

My vision of a redesign would distance the Drunken Master from supernatural abilities and focus on more purely martial (albeit mechanically "extraordinary") abilities. My suggestions: remove the alcohol-to-potion ability and the fire-breathing. This is cool, but doesn't really work as PrC-specific mechanic.

Given the defensive bonuses, I wonder if having the alcohol consumption attack Con temporarily might work out (at least non-lethal effects). The thinking behind this:
While influenced by alcohol a person doesn't notice the damage they are taking. This is represented in the defensive bonuses to dodge, AC, etc (fluff-wise, it's the "loose" style of drunken master that explains these bonuses). This doesn't mean they aren't taking damage. In fact, they might not be aware of the damage they are taking. It's a bit easier to knock them down when solid hits land (hits that are often absorbed/deflected by the loose-ness of body).

[Magnor Criol]

I think it can remain a Move action...

I agree, leave it as a move action, that makes the most sense. Taking a good swig of boozlehol does take more time than the fraction of a moment that a swift action represents.

And then also leaves an opening for a feat that reduces the action time, or perhaps give an option to drink with a swift or immediate action for a drink but get less points for it. (Take a sip versus a proper swig, basically.)

Oh! And/or an option to spend a full-round action to chug the whole bottle, gaining bonus points that way...hm...

[term1nally s1ck]

Give him the ability: Homebrew. Let him make his own alcohol (basically Craft(Alcohol), but let it get stronger as he has more levels in Drunken Master. I might actually take Vow of Poverty if you give it that. Maybe.

Also, you are awesome. But you took out the best ability in the entire class.

[Tiktakkat]

Drunken Master was made to encourage fans of the Jackie Chan film, "Legend of the Drunken Master". We all know it's true!
. . .

That's just my opinion at least, make of it what you will~

I agree.
I think the prestige class just lost its intent by focusing on the excessive drinking aspect, probably because they would have had serious issues with getting such content in the game otherwise, and it wound up with a power that negates a main element of the class.

[Frosty]

Give him the ability: Homebrew. Let him make his own alcohol (basically Craft(Alcohol), but let it get stronger as he has more levels in Drunken Master. I might actually take Vow of Poverty if you give it that. Maybe.

Also, you are awesome. But you took out the best ability in the entire class.

I'm thinking that Craft (Alcohol) would normally cover this, but I suppose that having the class give a bonus to the skill isn't out of the question...

[term1nally s1ck]

It would give it a stated value of points from the alcohol that a certain skill in crafting gives you.

[Akal Saris]

Drunken Master was made to encourage fans of the Jackie Chan film, "Legend of the Drunken Master". We all know it's true!
Honestly though, as funny as the advice may sound, watch this film (I wonder if it's on YouTube...) and you'll find out a lot about the actual martial art. For example, there are several select 'Gods' (or masters) of the art who represent different styles which can be iscolated or mixed.
Bear in mind though, Drunken Arts are meant to simulate the appearance of intoxication, being drunk does in no way help (though for fantasy sake, it could?) and since half the point other than tricking your opponent into overconfidence is to mimic the unpredictable movement patters of the drunk, Agility should be a prime concern. Also, for the same reason, focus should be on hindering opponent modifiers before boosting the players own.

That's just my opinion at least, make of it what you will~

No, I think you're absolutely right. All of the abilities in the PrC are based off of what Chan does in the movie - I think "Make a Jackie Chan character" really sums up the original design intent of the PrC.

The trick, of course, is to do it in a fashion that doesn't suck.

[Frosty]

It would give it a stated value of points from the alcohol that a certain skill in crafting gives you.

That works. Or perhaps the roll will determine it. Kind of like how Knowledge Devotion grants you barying bonuses depending on your roll.

[Quietus]

I would say, keep it as a 10 level class, but keep the "booze points" idea. Have drink like a demon be a move action, but usable as swift for 1/2 the BP, or full round for 2x. Each drink gives a number of booze points equal to the drunken master's level, so that a higher level master can make it last longer... or can nova harder. Maybe make it level+con to get a few extra in there at low level.


Then create a baseline : In order to gain any benefit from the booze, he has to fail the fort save. Which he can do willingly, if he so chooses. He still takes the penalties, ability damage, whatever, but they are offset until he has 0 booze points remaining - and booze points go away at the end of the encounter regardless. So if he wants to keep doing his neat drunken tricks, he has to keep drinking, or he'll run out of "juice" and be screwed. Once under the normal affects of alcohol, "drink like a demon" won't halt the penalties any more.. but he can still fight and use abilities, albeit while impaired.

Then give him a selection of abilities, say one every other level (1, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10? Or maybe make it a five-level class, go 1/3/5?), which are fuelled by these booze points.


Then have abilities like... keep many of the standard ones (medicinal purposes, breath of flame [1d6 per booze point for both?], stumbling charge, corkscrew whatever it was), and give the improvised weaponry stuff at levels 2 and 4. As a five level class, you wouldn't even really need to advance AC, speed, unarmed strike as monk... you wouldn't lose that much to worry about it. And then make a special case for ex-monks who lose their Lawfulness, that they can re-enter Monk if they choose, despite their new alignment.

Also, an idea for another ability, Drunken Rage : Standard action to activate. Gain the effects of Righteous Might, as though with a caster level = booze points spent.

[Beorn080]

The original Drunken Master with Jackie Chan was superior.

An innate bonus to tumble while drunk would be good. I can't remember any specifics from the movie though, which would help.

[sonofzeal]

If I were to build a Drunken Master class from scratch, here's what I would like to incorporate....


- Fun with Improvised Weapons

- Ability to ignore difficult terrain

- Bonus on Balance, Tumble, and some sort of "kip up" skill built in

- Ability to attack several opponents at once (Whirlwind?)

- Improved Uncanny Dodge

- Ability to render opponents flatfooted somehow




.....a thought on the last one: what if flatfootedness was triggered on any round where you move more than 10 feet? That'll produce a fighting style where the Drunken Master may switch from full attacking, to tumbling past the enemy to attack from the opposite side with a single attack and catch them off-guard when he does so. Bonus damage against flatfooted enemies might be appropriate too.

As for the alchohol itself, most of that can honestly be fluff. A few abilities tied to it might be nice, but it might also serve better as a condition than how it got handled in CW. For example, I might define a "Drunken" condition (maybe based off Shaken), and let the Drunken Master access his best abilities only while the Drunken condition is active. Further levels in the class could reduce the penalties... or better, provide a slightly different set of bonuses, such as an AC bonus, whenever the character has the condition.

[faceroll]

Take a look at the 3.0 version from Sword anf Fist. Much better.

What's the difference?

[Jarveiyan]

Have any of you gotten tippsy, much less drunk? I think theres a very justifiable reason why you lose wisdom. Alcohol impairs your judgment which is derived from wisdom. I can see where you wouldn't get a - to intelligence, I don't remember ever forgetting what I've learned from getting drunk, just making stupid decisions(loss of judgment skills). And no I've never drank so much I passed out. alternatively what you could do is have drink like a demon effect wisdom and charisma negatively(while increasing strength, and again I've never seen people get hardier or more agile while drunk the opposite in fact, clumsier and thinks theyre invincible), and have AC key off a different stat(also think about giving them a AC add) since apparently drunken masters get harder to hit once thay get in their groove.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Have any of you gotten tippsy, much less drunk? I think theres a very justifiable reason why you lose wisdom. Alcohol impairs your judgment which is derived from wisdom. I can see where you wouldn't get a - to intelligence, I don't remember ever forgetting what I've learned from getting drunk, just making stupid decisions(loss of judgment skills). And no I've never drank so much I passed out.There's a realism justification, but when the PrC is aimed at monks and Monks require Wisdom, well...it's hard to justify the PrC reducing a key stat.

[term1nally s1ck]

Have any of you gotten tippsy, much less drunk? I think theres a very justifiable reason why you lose wisdom. Alcohol impairs your judgment which is derived from wisdom. I can see where you wouldn't get a - to intelligence, I don't remember ever forgetting what I've learned from getting drunk, just making stupid decisions(loss of judgment skills). And no I've never drank so much I passed out. alternatively what you could do is have drink like a demon effect wisdom and charisma negatively(while increasing strength, and again I've never seen people get hardier or more agile while drunk the opposite in fact, clumsier and thinks theyre invincible), and have AC key off a different stat(also think about giving them a AC add) since apparently drunken masters get harder to hit once thay get in their groove.


Drinking can make you forget things temporarily. Like where you live, people's names, what you already drank, etc...But it does seem to actually boost charisma regularly. Dutch Courage, and all.

[faceroll]

I'm looking at the Drunken Master in Sword and Fist, and the penalties you take to your ability scores don't affect anything.

[dobu]

Hm. Maybe keep the WIS penalty, but give them an equal Dodge Bonus to AC to compensate the loss.

On the other hand, this may be some case, when a Monk sacrifices his AC to get offensive boni. Maybe some Damage Reduction, or a delayed damage pool (similar to Crusader's Steely Resolve) would be appropriate.

[Tyndmyr]

Mechanics aside, I'd like to see the special prerequisite fluff remain the same. "Must have gone out partying with other Drunken Masters without making a spectacular fool of yourself and/or dying" always struck me as awesome.

It is. It's sufficiently awesome that it's become a general prerquisite for characters being allowed into our party. The failure rate is damned high, though.

[Runestar]

How did the drunken master get his name anyways?

I recall an old show about it, where one of the underlying principles was "the mind remains lucid even as your movements become erratic" or something along that line.

Are you actually supposed to become a better fighter while drunk, or do you simply mimic the movements of a drunk to make your attacks more unpredictable and confound your foes and throw them off guard?

[Optimystik]

Are you actually supposed to become a better fighter while drunk, or do you simply mimic the movements of a drunk to make your attacks more unpredictable and confound your foes and throw them off guard?

IRL, it's mimicry. Drunken Fist is a real martial art (also known as Zui Quan. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zui_Quan))

[Roderick_BR]

1) It was clearly geared towards monk and yet didn't advance unarmed damage. Also Drinking lowered your Wis further making it anti monk. Yet you basically had to be a monk to qualify for it. Fix this oddity. Either make it more monk friendly (my preffered solution) or make it not require monk only abilities.

2) Stagger is awesome. Improvised weaponry is cool. Most of the rest of the abilities failed to wow me at all. Needs more oomph.

I didn't read the 3.5 version, but the 3.0 clearly said that the Wis penalty didn't affect your AC. But said nothing about the Stunning Fist and Quivering Palm DCs.
And yes, no unarmed progression, if I'm not wrong.

I always thought that it looked a lot like that guy from King of Fighters. Everything is there. Drink to enhance strength, to heal, using bottles as weapons, doing a "screw attack", and even his danger move, the fire breathing technique.

[Aharon]

For the high end of power, Frank & K (or some other denizens of the Gaming Den) made a version of the Drunken Master, too.

[D-naras]

Wouldn't it be cooler to have them keep the points for a wider span of time, and for a smaller amount of booze? Say, an hour or until expended. That way, a player would be drinking the whole day, and more after a battle! I would totally play that!

[Ernir]

I'm also thinking of just completely changing the way alcohol improves upon the Drunken Master. Instead of static, BORING bonuses, how about each time you drink using Drink like a Demon, you get a certain amount of "Alcohol points" (reminiscent of Pathfinder's point-system for raging barbarians and the Ki-pool for PF Monks, or even the Hellreaver's Fury points) which you can spend for different effects? Some of which are bonuses to hit. Some of which are bonuses to special maneuvers. Some of which can be healing or fire breathing. You can even drink again in the middle of combat to replenish some of your points!

Now I want to make this a base Martial Adept class that uses drinks as its recovery mechanic.

[Blackfang108]

Now I want to make this a base Martial Adept class that uses drinks as its recovery mechanic.

I am so in favor of this.

You have no idea.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Drinks should heal HP.

[Mongoose87]

What's the difference?

If you translate the "Unarmed BaB" prerequisite into regular BaB, it becoems a lot easier to enter through non-monk classes, making the Drink Like a Demon Wisdom penalties less painful. However, this


Now I want to make this a base Martial Adept class that uses drinks as its recovery mechanic.

has just replaced that as my favorite idea.

[BenTheJester]

You're missing description on some of the abilities(Breath of Flame), Furious staggering, etc.

[Frosty]

You're missing description on some of the abilities(Breath of Flame), Furious staggering, etc.

That;s because like I said, I haven't finished it. I am getting closed to getting all the abilities statted out and will post the full thing when done.

[Frosty]

And it is DONE! I removed firebreathing because it just didn't make thematic sense ith the rest of the class anyways.


HD: d10
Prerequisites: Great Fortitude, Base attack bonus +3
Improved Unarmed Strike (or monk's version thereof), Flurry of Blows, Evasion

Class Skills (4+Int mod per level): Acrobatics, Athletics, Bluff, Craft,
Perception, Perform, Profession, Sense Motive, Stealth

BAB: 3/4 progression
Saves: Good Fort, Good Ref, Bad Will

Lv Special
1st Drink like a demon (stats), improvised weapons, flurry of blows, AC Bonus,
stunning Fist, unarmed strike
2nd Stagger, Bonus Feat
3rd Drink like a demon (special maneuvers), Bonus Feat
4th Drink like a demon (AC), Greater Improvised weapons, Drunken Step
5th Drink like a demon (For medicinal purposes), Bonus Feat
6th Superior improvised weapon, Knockback
7th Drink like a demon (Drunken flurry), Whirlwind


Flurry of Blows (Ex), AC Bonus, Stunning Fist, Unarmed Strike: Levels of Drunken Master stack with Monk for the purposes of determining the character's AC Bonus, unarmed damage progression, flurry of blows penalties, and the number of Stunning Fist attemps per day.

Improvised weapons (Ex): A drunken master gains proficiency in all improvised weapons and hence does not incur the -4 penalty one would normally have for wielding one. Furthermore, a drunken master's improvised weapon deals as much damage as his unarmed strike plus an extra 1d4 points. A drunken master may also count improvised weapons as special monk weapons, and can flurry with such weapons.

Drink Like a Demon (Ex): A drunken master's body handles alcohol different from other people's. He can drink a large tankard of ale, a bottle of wine, or a corresponding amount of stronger alcohol as a move action. Every drink consumed in this special manner damages the drunken master's Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma by 1 (drunken master's choice). Every hour that passes, the drunken master chooses to repair one of his ability scores damaged by this ability, and that ability score goes back up by one.

Each time the drunken master consumes a drink in this manner, he also gains a number of Alcohol points. The number of points is by default 10, but can be less or more depending on the strength of the drink as determined by the DM. Alternatively, he can take the time to savor the drink as it goes down, and doing so lets him make more efficient use of the alcohol. If the drunken master downs a drink as a full-round action instead, he gains 20 Alcohol points. The drunken master can store at maximum 25 Alcohol points. All the unspent points disappear after a number of rounds equal to 3+drunken master levels since he last had a drink in this manner. He can spend these points in a number of ways to become a terrifying (if hilarious) combatant.

Stats: At first level, the drunken master has learned how to channel his inner drunk into becoming more physically imposing. As a free action, he may spend Alcohol points to increase his Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution by 2 per point spent until the beginning of his next turn. He may spend no more than 4 points on a stat. At 5th level, each point spent increases the stat by 3 instead of 2.

Special maneuvers: At third level, a drunken master is a...well...master at special combat maneuvers. While the drunken master is still drunk (i.e. he still has an ability score that is damaged from alcohol) his BAB is equal to his Hit Dice for the purposes of special maneuvers such as Bullrush, Grapple, Disarm, Sunder, Trip. this includes determining who has The Edge in such maneuvers. In addition, the drunken master may, as a free action, spend up to 2 Alcohol points per turn to augment his special maneuvers further. Each point spent this way gives the drunken master a (stackable) +2 bonus to a special maneuver of his choice until the beginning of his next turn. For example, a drunken master may spend 2 points to be able to get a +4 on all Bull Rush attempts until his next turn. This bonus stacks with feats such as Improved Bullrush.

AC: At fourth level, a drunken master can use his drunken swaying to become harder to hit. As a free action, he may spend Alcohol points to gain a +2 Dodge bonus to AC per point spent until the beginning of his next turn. At 5th level, each point spent increases the AC bonus by 3 instead of 2.

For Medicinal Purposes: At fifth level, a drunken master can claim that he needs alcohol as his medicine...and be telling the truth! As a swift action, he can spend a number of alcohol points up to his class level, and heal himself for 1d6 per point spent in this manner.

Drunken Flurry: At seventh level, a drunken master has mastered the secret art of making a lot of attack while drunk...after staggering around the room once or twice. As a swift action, he can spend 5 Alcohol points to gain, for this turn only, the ability to perform a Flurry of Blows at the end of a charge. It must be a Flurry of Blows and not a normal full-attack.

Stagger (Ex): A drunken master can charge any way he darned well feels like, and hence does not need to charge in a straight line, although he still needs to move at least 10 feet to charge. Also, a drunken master can make a DC 20 Tumble/Acrobatics check at the beginning of the charge. If he does so, his movement through threatened squares during the charge does not provoke.

Bonus Feats: At 2nd, 3rd, and 5th levels, the drunken master gets a bonus feat. These feats must be drawn from the following list, although the drunken master does not need to meet the prerequisites for the feat: Blind-fight, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Disarm, Improved Grapple, Improved Trip.

Drunken Step (Ex): At 4th level, a drunken master has learned to move through the detritus strewn throughtout an imprompty tavern battleground. He may ignore the first 10 ft. or difficult terrain per turn. He may take 5-ft steps into difficult terrain.

Greater Improvised weapons (Ex): At 4th level and higher, a drunken master wielding an improvised weapon deals an extra 1d8 points of damage instead of 1d4.

Superior Improvised weapons (Ex): At 6th level and higher, a drunken master wielding an improvised weapon deals an extra 1d12 points of damage instead of 1d8.

Knockback (Ex): Any drunken master knows that a bar brawl isn't REALLY a bar brawl until the walls are receiving new holes via tables or people getting knocked into them. At 6th level, he has taken this to heart and has learned how to knock people back really far with each hit. After a drunken master successfully hits an enemy with a melee attack and deals damage, he can, as a free action, initiate a Bull Rush maneuver. He does not need to move into his opponents space. If the drunken master wins by enough to push the opponent back more than 5 ft., he does not need to move with his opponent to push his opponent back the full length. If he fails the Bull Rush maneuver, he does not need to move backwards or fall prone.

Whirlwind (Ex): At 7th level, a drunken master becomes an epic whirlwind of destruction...at least while drunk. While drunk (has an ability score damaged by Drink like a demon) he can, as a standard action, perform a Whirlwind Attack as the feat in the Player's Handbook.

[Darrin]

And it is DONE! I removed firebreathing because it just didn't make thematic sense ith the rest of the class anyways.


Firebreathing was an important capstone ability because of the Jackie Chan movies. There's an argument that taking it out wouldn't be true to the designer's intent (that is, to evoke the Drunken Master abilities from the Jackie Chan movies).

[BenTheJester]

It wouldn't be of much use in your campaign anyway. Devils being fire-immuned and everything.

I really like free bullrush though. Could work great with dungeoncrasher fighter

[Frosty]

It wouldn't be of much use in your campaign anyway. Devils being fire-immuned and everything.

I really like free bullrush though. Could work great with dungeoncrasher fighter

Oh yes, this was very much designed with Dungeoncrasher in mind. And you on't need to be Large or Powerful Build :smallbiggrin:

[Noble Savant]

How about making improvised weapons deal damage like your unarmed strike? Using them is mainly just a flavor bit here, so they might as well not gimp you entirely. The visual of flurrying with bottles, breaking one each time, is also incredibly pleasing.

In addition Whirlwind isn't a very impressive or evocative capstone. How about a form of Damage Reduction using your alcohol points? "Sobering up" with a mace to the head sounds awesome.

[Frosty]

How about making improvised weapons deal damage like your unarmed strike? Using them is mainly just a flavor bit here, so they might as well not gimp you entirely. The visual of flurrying with bottles, breaking one each time, is also incredibly pleasing.

In addition Whirlwind isn't a very impressive or evocative capstone. How about a form of Damage Reduction using your alcohol points? "Sobering up" with a mace to the head sounds awesome.

Their improvised weapon damage is 1d4/1d8/1d12 ON TOP of their unarmed damage already.

Whirlwind isn't the true capstone. Drunken Flurry is. Being able to do 4 attacks at the end of a charge is pretty good, especially since you can charge after running in a circle. Aka, never be out of position to full-attack EVER AGAIN!

[FlamingKobold]

Oh man. I just found this thread, and I totally think it's awesome how similar it is to my drunken master fix. I entered this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7794037&postcount=35) into ErrantX's prestige class contest, and I think you guys, as people who obviously have an interest in drunken master fixes, would be the best to look over it. So whaddya think?

[Temotei]

Oh man. I just found this thread, and I totally think it's awesome how similar it is to my drunken master fix. I entered this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7794037&postcount=35) into ErrantX's prestige class contest, and I think you guys, as people who obviously have an interest in drunken master fixes, would be the best to look over it. So whaddya think?


Drunken style is absolutely useless. You can get far more mileage out of the Strength bonus from drunken fist.

I think drink like a demon should give a penalty to Intelligence and Charisma for every five points, instead of every ten. Most drunken masters won't be able to hold ten drunken points until they've got around seven levels in drunken master. Wisdom shouldn't have a penalty because it's a monk mainstay ability score.

Swaying waist is pretty powerful for AC builds. At 10th level, you can get +20 to AC for 10 rounds. Not bad...not to mention you can keep drinking and keep using it, for essentially infinite rounds, until you run out of alcohol (which you shouldn't).

Absorb pain is powerful because of the same reasons, except now it steps on the barbarian's foot, crushing all of his/her toes. You can get 10/- damage reduction for a really long time.

For medicinal purposes, at first glance, doesn't seem overpowered. When looking at it more and thinking though, you start to wonder. If you're a drunken master, you're going to have a lot of alcohol. That essentially means you should have enough for two adventures per adventure. First, the ability doesn't have an action listed. That basically means you can do it whenever, as written. Since you're going to have a ton of drunken points, you'll be able to heal 10d8 consistently, basically never dying. It should be a standard or full round action.

Overall, the class has some pretty powerful flaws. I think the main improvement would have to be in the drunken point system. As of now, it's really easy to get a ton of really strong benefits for barely any cost (-1 to Int, Wis, or Cha per 10 points plus cost of alcohol (not much)).

It's a cool concept--trying to revise the current drunken master. I think you've done a good job of capturing the spirit of them. :smallcool:

Copied from our Avatars in Games thread.

[Frosty]

Temotei221: Your point is valid about For Medicinal Purposes even for my fix, although in theory the ability damage prevents the healing from becoming infinite. Perhaps a limit on how many times per day based on Drunken Master levels? Or perhaps based on a statistic?

What do you think of my fix? With mine, powerful bonuses are gained, but they only last one round at most, so the Drunken Master must keep on spending actions drinking.

[Soonerdj]

I thought Drunken Boxing was primarily a system designed to disguise you center of balance, deal strikes from odd angles, fight from the ground, and to appear defenseless despite being a excellent fighter.

Therefore I think Alcohol should be considered a *side* benefit rather than a central one despite the class name.

The improvised weapon is meh imo, I'd rather have monk progression on everything except run speed.

To reflect the fight from the ground you have something along the lines of

Fight from the Ground:
When knocked down you appear helpless but anything but. You aren't considered flat footed when laying down and can fight as normal but must stand up before you can move from the spot. You can however scoot 5 feet a turn.

Dirty Fighting:
You can expend one Stunning Fist attempt to attempt a Dirty Blow. By striking below the belt, Rabbit punching, or something else. Target must succeed on a Fort Save or be Nauseated for some rounds.

Drunken Bluffing: Reads like the Panache of the Blade from IH. The opponent believes you are too drunk and holds off on attacking you to focus on greater threats.

That and I think something along the line of

Drunken Savant: Instead of its regular effects you see the deeper truths of life when you are hammered. Instead of lowering your wisdom alcohol actually increases it.

[Frosty]

I thought Drunken Boxing was primarily a system designed to disguise you center of balance, deal strikes from odd angles, fight from the ground, and to appear defenseless despite being a excellent fighter.

Therefore I think Alcohol should be considered a *side* benefit rather than a central one despite the class name.

The improvised weapon is meh imo, I'd rather have monk progression on everything except run speed.

To reflect the fight from the ground you have something along the lines of

Fight from the Ground:
When knocked down you appear helpless but anything but. You aren't considered flat footed when laying down and can fight as normal but must stand up before you can move from the spot. You can however scoot 5 feet a turn.

Dirty Fighting:
You can expend one Stunning Fist attempt to attempt a Dirty Blow. By striking below the belt, Rabbit punching, or something else. Target must succeed on a Fort Save or be Nauseated for some rounds.

Drunken Bluffing: Reads like the Panache of the Blade from IH. The opponent believes you are too drunk and holds off on attacking you to focus on greater threats.

That and I think something along the line of

Drunken Savant: Instead of its regular effects you see the deeper truths of life when you are hammered. Instead of lowering your wisdom alcohol actually increases it.

This fix DOES advance Monk in terms of Stunning Fist and unarmed damage. The improved damage for improvised weapons is just gravy on top. And on a minor note, you're not Flat-footed when prone anyways. All you have is a -4 to AC vs melee and a +4 to AC vs ranged.

[FlamingKobold]

Frosty:

Yeah, I do like your fix. One problem I have with it, though, is that while it does include a lot of cool abilities, it leaves quite a bit out. Mine has stagger, unexxpected direction and breath of flames, which are all totally awesome and iconic abilities. Since yours is only 7 levels, you could easily make it ten and add these, along with others. On power level, though, yeah, I like it. Indeed, one thing that I'm thinking of doing is to do something kind of like yours, with the one round duration thing. That is, of course, if you're okay with it. Since this is a contest entry, I don't want to be stealing ideas. See here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7796637&postcount=427) for a bit more on bothe the duration thing and the for medicinal purposes.

[Frosty]

Frosty:

Yeah, I do like your fix. One problem I have with it, though, is that while it does include a lot of cool abilities, it leaves quite a bit out. Mine has stagger, unexxpected direction and breath of flames, which are all totally awesome and iconic abilities. Since yours is only 7 levels, you could easily make it ten and add these, along with others. On power level, though, yeah, I like it. Indeed, one thing that I'm thinking of doing is to do something kind of like yours, with the one round duration thing. That is, of course, if you're okay with it. Since this is a contest entry, I don't want to be stealing ideas. See here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7796637&postcount=427) for a bit more on bothe the duration thing and the for medicinal purposes.

I don't mind too much since I'm not entering the contest, as long as your stuff aren't a direct copy of my stuff.

I included the flame breathing at first, but it just seemed so..random when set against the rest o the class abilities. I mean, here's a guy who's really good at fighting and using special maneuvers and stuff...with the mechanics to back it up...and then out of the blue there's a breath weapon?

Even if I included a breath weapon, I can't imagine someone wanting to spend Alcohol points on breathing fire when the other bonuses are so much better.