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View Full Version : [3.5] Calling all Planescape fans! Need advice running Sigil



Daefos
2010-01-29, 04:05 PM
I'm running a campaign right now set in a homebrew setting, and my players will soon be headed to Sigil. Now, thus far in the campaign, cities have been little more than glorified shops and places to meet NPCs; I'd simply say "After X days travel, you're in <Random City Y>", the PCs would do their shopping, talk to some people to get a quest, and move on. Rarely would I give more than a general description of the size/type of the place, and at no point would they actually adventure within the city. As my players get closer to Sigil though, my lack of experience running such a thing worries me.

I intend to have a basic map ready with general points of interest and the time it takes to get between them, so I think I'm okay on that front (suggestions are still welcome though). My biggest concern is how should I avoid the "We go here." "Okay." rut that I've fallen into. I freely admit that descriptions are my weak point, but I want Sigil to feel like well, Sigil, rather than a bland series of locations where plot tends to occur.

Any advice?

Gnorman
2010-01-29, 05:59 PM
Cue Eldan!

Eldan
2010-01-29, 06:54 PM
*poof*

Here I am!

Okay. First of all, pictures help a lot. I'll go dig some out later.
THen, you wanted a map. I recommend the Planewalker map:
http://www.planewalker.com/resources/-sigil-resources/090906/sigil-resources
Warning: biig.
http://www.planewalker.com/legacy/_framed_npclist/files/Sigil_Map2.pdf

Now, I always make a point of describing a few things the PCs pass. It doesn't have to be canonical: you can make up weird looking NPCs on the fly, if you are good at improvising (I'm not, really), or just write down some. For basics, take humanoids and give them weird skin colour and a few distinguishing features. Make sure they are involved in weird activities as well: have a group of three foot tall blue horned men staring at a map depicting a city carved from a mountain-sized skull floating over an ocean of green slime or something.
Now, important for Sigil is the general feel: the typical Sigilian (thinks he) has seen everything, so their typical emotion is a mix of cynicism, contempt and greed. Half of them will want to rob you or sell you their portal key. Primers, and anyone knew to the city, should be recognizable by the way they stare at things. In the richer districts, have them surrounded by merchants with exotic wares, touts (guides), pickpockets, mercenaries, beggars and others.
In a poorer district, have a few men follow them discreetly with their hands in their pockets. If your game can tolerate slightly more mature topics, have a few exotic prostitutes and really, really weird merchants. Nothing says "The Hive" like a tiefling selling steamed mephit eyes on a stick. Have a beggar loudly comment on how well the elf's legs would taste.
All in all, you should get a sense of a city that is incredibly strange and exotic, and at the same time inhabited by people who are just as strange, and still only want to make a living. It should be busy, at all times, and never quiet. Have a new thing to see for the PCs at every corner.

Eldan
2010-01-29, 06:59 PM
It seems I mostly have pictures of the important NPCs lying around... however, there are a few city scenes I could find:


http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/3313/sigilg.jpg

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/1993/sigilcityofdoorsbyfuflo.jpg

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/3192/greatbazaar1.jpg

And just for fun:
http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/3565/primeexotics.jpg

Narazil
2010-01-29, 07:00 PM
At least to me, your spoilers are borken Eldan.

hamishspence
2010-01-29, 07:01 PM
Red Xs of Doom, indeed.

Eldan
2010-01-29, 07:03 PM
Better now?

Freejack451
2010-01-29, 07:06 PM
Not the first post.

BTW, I love some Planescape. I used to run it in 2nd Edtion soon after it came out.


Freejack

Daefos
2010-01-29, 09:03 PM
*poof*

Here I am!

Okay. First of all, pictures help a lot. I'll go dig some out later.
THen, you wanted a map. I recommend the Planewalker map:
http://www.planewalker.com/resources/-sigil-resources/090906/sigil-resources
Warning: biig.
http://www.planewalker.com/legacy/_framed_npclist/files/Sigil_Map2.pdf

Now, I always make a point of describing a few things the PCs pass. It doesn't have to be canonical: you can make up weird looking NPCs on the fly, if you are good at improvising (I'm not, really), or just write down some. For basics, take humanoids and give them weird skin colour and a few distinguishing features. Make sure they are involved in weird activities as well: have a group of three foot tall blue horned men staring at a map depicting a city carved from a mountain-sized skull floating over an ocean of green slime or something.
Now, important for Sigil is the general feel: the typical Sigilian (thinks he) has seen everything, so their typical emotion is a mix of cynicism, contempt and greed. Half of them will want to rob you or sell you their portal key. Primers, and anyone knew to the city, should be recognizable by the way they stare at things. In the richer districts, have them surrounded by merchants with exotic wares, touts (guides), pickpockets, mercenaries, beggars and others.
In a poorer district, have a few men follow them discreetly with their hands in their pockets. If your game can tolerate slightly more mature topics, have a few exotic prostitutes and really, really weird merchants. Nothing says "The Hive" like a tiefling selling steamed mephit eyes on a stick. Have a beggar loudly comment on how well the elf's legs would taste.
All in all, you should get a sense of a city that is incredibly strange and exotic, and at the same time inhabited by people who are just as strange, and still only want to make a living. It should be busy, at all times, and never quiet. Have a new thing to see for the PCs at every corner.

This is perfect, thank you. :smallsmile:

Eldan
2010-01-30, 07:12 AM
Something I've found helps with writing Sigil encounters, actually:

get a long lunchbreak, sit on a busy shopping street, preferably one with tourists. Just look how people act, then imagine them as DnD outsiders. Surprisingly, it works.

bosssmiley
2010-01-30, 10:09 AM
Something I've found helps with writing Sigil encounters, actually:

get a long lunchbreak, sit on a busy shopping street, preferably one with tourists. Just look how people act, then imagine them as DnD outsiders. Surprisingly, it works.

True dat. If you've ever been to Vienna or Paris you've been to Sigil. Just change the FX, keep the sensibility.

@v: Swedish ones? :smallconfused: ("Bėrk! Bėrk! Bėrk!")

Eldan
2010-01-30, 10:13 AM
And some tourists make surprisingly good primers.

arguskos
2010-01-30, 11:07 AM
True dat. If you've ever been to Vienna or Paris you've been to Sigil. Just change the FX, keep the sensibility.

@v: Swedish ones? :smallconfused: ("Bėrk! Bėrk! Bėrk!")
Made me giggle right there. :smallbiggrin:

Also, for Sigilian encounters, I like to throw every single possible NPC, crazy shopkeep, strange barkeep, and similar thing that I have laying about into the city. It's such a metropolitan area, you're bound to find crazy stuff everywhere. It's a great setting.

Eldariel
2010-01-30, 11:11 AM
@v: Swedish ones? :smallconfused: ("Bėrk! Bėrk! Bėrk!")

Swedes don't even have ė in their alphabets :smalltongue:

Mogrii
2010-01-30, 11:47 AM
Don't forget to describe -at least the first few times- the most important physical feature of Sigil: it's torus shape. May be even make some of them barf over a passing mephit after seeing the streets curve upwards.
I had one of my players fall backwards trying to see were the streets ended and another refused to go to the other side of town because he feared he would fall down.
And the nights, remember that there are no moon or stars, but there are city lights from the other side of Sigil.
Remember the architecture, the gothic-bladed-dangerous architecture in all of the 'official' (think of Factions Headquearters and other old ones) buildings in the city, and the total lack of a coherent architectural style in the other parts of town: building materials come from everywhere in the multiverse, and so do the style in which they are used.
Remember the razorvine, a vine with razor sharp leaves that grows everywhere in the streets, and the Dabus (the caretakers of the city who speak in nothing but images-that-mimic-sound floating above their heads) trimming it.
The most important feature, tho, is the people. Sigilians are jade seen-it-all folk, but not half of the popullation of Sigil are sigilians, most are just planars passing through, and if sigilians are a strange bucnh the planars are even worse, thare you get to put together celestials and fiends (maybe not as friends but surely not attacking each other on sight) and all those mosnters that dont act like monsters here (a bunch of drow buying weapons to take to the Vault in Oerth, some trolls selling the pelts of their ysgardian hunts, a cornugon that approaches the party not to fight but to recruit them in the blood war, etc.)

And last but not least, don't show the Lady of Pain. No matter what you have decided her to be, the one thing she IS is a mystery and the one thing she should not be is going around in the city for everyone to see. Make NPC's mention her, swear by her name, drop her name like a curse or a blessing, but never show her. This way she can either remain an urban legend or a mysterious figure in the background and when -if- you use her, she will be that more shocking.

Other thing I noticed while running a mostly cannon PS campaign is the lack of focus on the Good-Evil axis and the extra focus on the Law-Chaos axis. Even if in the outer planes every alignment is represented, the fact that you show Law and Chaos being represented in equal terms to Good and Evil makes wonders to get the feel of the setting: the power of belief.


Woa! Long post. Sorry for that, but Planescape is my favorite setting, and one tends to grow passionate towards the things one loves.

Chrono22
2010-01-30, 12:07 PM
I'm mining this thread for ideas, but I'll go ahead and post my own as well.

In my games, there is a subversive multiversal law that causes like or similar things (colors, alignments, beliefs, ethos) to draw together. Since sigil is the center of the multiverse, the effects of this law of Attraction are more apparent.

I had a PC of mine meet a high-intelligence Ibixen with a british accent, durby, and monocle. The Ibixen had the same name as the PC, and in fact claimed to be from a plane of the same name- except his home plane was ruled by Ibixen. The two spent an hour or so at a tea shop, and they had philosophical discussion while enjoying their meal in a grove on Cellestia.

On the lady of pain- there exists in my campaign setting a short list of unique beings. Beings from outside of time- the original Outsiders- the primordials. Four of them sleep- their power is used by the overdeity, Ao (also known as Aeon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeon)) to rule over creation. Their bodies make up the four elemental planes. The lady of pain is Ananke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ananke_%28mythology%29), the primordial of inevitability. Sigil is not at the center of existence. Ananke is. Inevitability- doom, ending, destruction- is the link that connects all of existance.
Originally, Ananke assisted Aeon in the formation of the planes and the birth of time- her power allowed Aeon to trick the four warring elemental primordials into resting. After the creation of the multiverse, Aeon created a home for her- a perfect ring to represent their unending devotion to one another. But sadly for Ananke, it was a trap. Aeon knew that Ananke's power would end creation in the same manner it helped create it- so he locked her power away inside of a perfect circle- a form that has neither beginning nor end.
This is why she is known as the lady of pain- she suffered the ultimate betrayal at the hands of Aeon. This is why she hates gods and their ilk. To this day, she walks the circle of Sigil unceasingly, like an animal walking the edges of a cage.

Gnorman
2010-01-30, 06:37 PM
On the lady of pain- there exists in my campaign setting a short list of unique beings. Beings from outside of time- the original Outsiders- the primordials. Four of them sleep- their power is used by the overdeity, Ao (also known as Aeon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeon)) to rule over creation. Their bodies make up the four elemental planes. The lady of pain is Ananke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ananke_%28mythology%29), the primordial of inevitability. Sigil is not at the center of existence. Ananke is. Inevitability- doom, ending, destruction- is the link that connects all of existance.
Originally, Ananke assisted Aeon in the formation of the planes and the birth of time- her power allowed Aeon to trick the four warring elemental primordials into resting. After the creation of the multiverse, Aeon created a home for her- a perfect ring to represent their unending devotion to one another. But sadly for Ananke, it was a trap. Aeon knew that Ananke's power would end creation in the same manner it helped create it- so he locked her power away inside of a perfect circle- a form that has neither beginning nor end.
This is why she is known as the lady of pain- she suffered the ultimate betrayal at the hands of Aeon. This is why she hates gods and their ilk. To this day, she walks the circle of Sigil unceasingly, like an animal walking the edges of a cage.

As much as I hate assigning backstory and motivation to the Lady, this is one of the best that I've heard. Props.

Eldan
2010-01-30, 06:41 PM
It's a nice one, yes. I think I'll have a preacher yell it on a street corner, or perhaps carve it in a cliff somewhere.

Chrono22
2010-01-31, 01:06 AM
Just a couple of things made me think of this. A sigil is a magical symbol made for a specific purpose. The city of sigil is a circle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_circle). Furthermore, it's an unornamented circle- a perfect circle. Circles in magic can be used protectively, or to create portals, or as a means of preventing egress. Usually sigils are ornamented with symbols and meanings, words and letters. Words of power-
such words have no consequence to one who precedes creation. So I figured, that's why the circle is plain. But to accommodate such power, it also had to be exceedingly large. And the person had to enter it willingly- an oath of devotion would suffice (marriage).
And then I realized that the Lady has an unreasonable hatred for Ao.

The pieces just fit together.

Eldan
2010-01-31, 07:44 AM
Well...

The Planewalker site is full of more or less interesting tinfoil hat ideas regarding the lady and Sigil.

The Sigil spell is interesting here: a powerful magic which uses the circle of sigil itself to recreate the city.

Other ideas I heard: the entire city of Sigil is a portal, not to another plane, but through the Far Realm to another multiverse. The Lady guards this portal against hostiles from another reality. The city of Sigil is a model (like a voodoo puppet) of the entire multiverse, and by enforcing neutrality and balance within, the lady makes certain that the various multiversal wars can never come to a definite conclusion. Alternatively, if anything ever upsets the balance of the alignments enough, Sigil would fall from the spire and break.

However: why are you giving such importance to AO? He isn't mentioned much in Planescape fluff, and there he is one amongst several overdeities.

Calmar
2010-01-31, 08:23 AM
And do not forget the architecture of Sigil. No matter the shape, the buildings of Sigil are almost always decorated with blades and spikes, and they are often overgrown with razorvine (vines with razorblade-sharp leaves).


http://home.flash.net/~brenfrow/ps/ps-cage.jpg
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/planar_gallery/82555.jpg

(important note: the city is not that slim, it's just a cut-out :smallwink:).


Also there's no sewer. There are cellars, storage-rooms, tunnels and crypts below the streets, though.

In addition, here are some beautiful pics, I think are perfect to illustrate different places on the outer planes.


In case you want to sent your players to the lower planes after visiting Sigil...
http://hungerartist.deviantart.com/art/Hellgate-75888639
http://hungerartist.deviantart.com/art/The-River-Styx-100746010
http://sallow.deviantart.com/art/The-Chase-31571404
http://ninja2assn.deviantart.com/art/Dark-Castle-22728404
http://tarfish.deviantart.com/art/2nd-gate-of-hell-1030311

... or to Mechanus into the modron realm.
http://jdillon82.deviantart.com/art/March-of-the-Modrons-51763324

charl
2010-01-31, 08:59 AM
It seems I mostly have pictures of the important NPCs lying around... however, there are a few city scenes I could find:

[pictures]

Is the beggar in that first picture giving the finger to a fiend? That's a true Sigilian right there.

Megaduck
2010-01-31, 09:12 AM
I always portrayed Sigil as tight, cramped, and crowded. The weather is terrible, almost always dark, cloudy, and rainy. I tried to portray it as claustrophobic as possible.

This is a picture I took in Old Stockholm which shows how small even a relatively major street can be.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j278/megaduck01/DSCN1194-1.jpg

In an alley you could reach out and touch both walls with your hands. Here's a similar picture but from Venice this time.
http://www.johnsingersargent.org/A-Street-In-Venice.jpg

I also used Venice as a model in that it was a crossroads with an enforced peace. Angels rub shoulders with Demons but no one is allowed to do anything. This makes everyone paranoid because they all know that everyone else is planning something but they can't do anything about it openly.

Big flashy spells like fireball or even magic missile are rarely used beyond the space issues. No one is willing to fire first but everyone is willing to fire second so the instant you draw attention to yourself in a hostile manner everyone targets you. This includes swords though less dramatically. If you're going to be in combat you need to be sure that no one is around to observe you.

Consequently, there are plots within plots within plots. Everyone has an angle.

Eldan
2010-01-31, 09:29 AM
I often used the cramped architecture as well, but not everywhere. The poorer, the more cramped. Poor people are those which build up six stories with bricks they dug out of a street somewhere and some third-hand stolen sheet metal. Some alleys in the hive become tunnels after a few decades.
In the Lady's ward, on the other hand, people can afford to build twenty meter wide boulevards plastered with bytopian mosaics and lined with greek statuary from olympia.

Megaduck
2010-01-31, 01:41 PM
I often used the cramped architecture as well, but not everywhere. The poorer, the more cramped. Poor people are those which build up six stories with bricks they dug out of a street somewhere and some third-hand stolen sheet metal. Some alleys in the hive become tunnels after a few decades.
In the Lady's ward, on the other hand, people can afford to build twenty meter wide boulevards plastered with bytopian mosaics and lined with greek statuary from olympia.

Oh, in the Lady's Ward the streets were always faced with high walls. There might be gardens and space behind them but you'd have to get through the outer shell first.

JohnnyCancer
2010-01-31, 03:30 PM
1. blue collar monsters.
2. A minor villain from the PC's past shows up, having taken several levels of badass and attempts to have his roaring rampage of revenge only to end up getting mazed.
3. Make some item the PCs already have be the key to a two-way gate to a place that's way too dangerous for them. They can step back before they get in trouble, but it's a good reminder of what can happen in the city of doors.
4. Weapons and armor in vastly alien styles.
5. Corollary to 4: some mundane item of the PCs catches the eye of an NPC who offers to pay a little more than its worth to have such an exotic thing.

Some episodes of Dr.Who might provide inspiration of creatures to be encountered, how wildly different beings interact, or bizarre religions/philosophies.

Eldan
2010-02-01, 06:29 AM
Oh, before I forget: I always make a point of always remembering the quote that got famous in our group after a PC used it a few times:

*Sees something awe-inspiring and monumental*
Sigilian PC: "Someone should build a tavern, right here."

Killer Angel
2010-02-01, 07:15 AM
Consequently, there are plots within plots within plots. Everyone has an angle.

And behind'em all, there are the Factions (http://www.mimir.net/factions/index.html).

Be familiar with'em: the factions are the engine of almost all the secret plots in Sigil. And you can find almost everything and everyone in any sinlge Faction: it's not a matter of race, but is the way you think and live. Different creatures that share the same way of life.

Mogrii
2010-02-02, 08:30 PM
However: why are you giving such importance to AO? He isn't mentioned much in Planescape fluff, and there he is one amongst several overdeities.

Ao? Ao is no-one outside his world, and he needn't be since nothing outside his world matters to him. To use overdeities in a planar scale is to limit the planes themselves. Let them be! Who cares who or what made them? For all we know they were all made by different beings for different purposes and the multiverse itself slowly began pulling them into their current place, like a box of stones shaken enough times.