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View Full Version : Scrolls and Counterspells.



Signmaker
2010-01-29, 05:57 PM
A spell successfully activated from a scroll works exactly like a spell prepared and cast the normal way.


To complete the action, you must then cast the correct spell. As a general rule, a spell can only counter itself. If you are able to cast the same spell and you have it prepared (if you prepare spells), you cast it, altering it slightly to create a counterspell effect. If the target is within range, both spells automatically negate each other with no other results.

Can a Scroll of X counter X spell, given that you are able to respond to such a casting in a prompt fashion?

Aaaand go.

tyckspoon
2010-01-29, 06:04 PM
Yes. I don't even see how that could be a question. The only difficulty would be predicting your opponent's action correctly so that you would already have the appropriate scroll in hand, since the readied counterspell action would not permit for an extra move action to retrieve a different scroll.

Tyndmyr
2010-01-29, 06:04 PM
I say, yes.

See, works exactly like a spell prepared and cast the normal way. That said, it's pretty useless if said scroll is at the bottom of your pack, underneath all that loot.

Thalnawr
2010-01-29, 06:16 PM
Perhaps it's at the bottom of your Handy Haversack instead?

AslanCross
2010-01-29, 06:17 PM
Or inside your Infinite Scrollcase.

drengnikrafe
2010-01-29, 06:20 PM
Doesn't Dispel Magic generally counter spells?

Signmaker
2010-01-29, 06:22 PM
Doesn't Dispel Magic generally counter spells?

Requires a caster level check, which isn't always reliable.

And there's a reason I stated a given: it's not easily attainable, but possible.

Mastikator
2010-01-29, 06:24 PM
I say, yes.

See, works exactly like a spell prepared and cast the normal way. That said, it's pretty useless if said scroll is at the bottom of your pack, underneath all that loot.

Wouldn't it make more sense to keep scrolls, wands and potions in a belt or something else which makes them easily accessible?
Given that the idea is you're going to use them sometimes under duress with a small time-frame, it makes no sense to put them in a bag. Picking up the wand from the easily accessible holder and readying an action is a full round, which is doable if you go first.
I know it's OT, but your example seems unrealistic.

I'd say a wand of dispel (or greater dispel) would be better for this purpose.
Although this is only a smart move if you know the enemy caster has more powerful magic than you.

frogspawner
2010-01-29, 06:31 PM
Can a Scroll of X counter X spell, given that you are able to respond to such a casting in a prompt fashion?
I'd say no.

Scrolls cast the spell "in the normal way" (exactly); Counter-spells have to be "altered slightly".

However, it is arguable.

herrhauptmann
2010-01-29, 08:27 PM
Requires a caster level check, which isn't always reliable.

And there's a reason I stated a given: it's not easily attainable, but possible.

And you'd be using the caster level used to create the scroll. So 5th for a typical scroll of Dispel Magic. By the time you've got the money to burn on scrolls of Dispel for counterspelling, that 5th level casting is going to be too low to really do anything. (Refer to any argument on why losing caster levels is bad)

Slayn82
2010-01-29, 08:34 PM
And how about an scroll of Limited Wish? Can it be used to counterspell? Do limited wish counts as the target spell if that spell is of apropriate level?

Superglucose
2010-01-29, 08:41 PM
Yes. I don't even see how that could be a question. The only difficulty would be predicting your opponent's action correctly so that you would already have the appropriate scroll in hand, since the readied counterspell action would not permit for an extra move action to retrieve a different scroll.
Quick Draw and figure out the damage for making the scroll an improvised weapon?

Mastikator
2010-01-29, 08:42 PM
Even if it's not by RAW, I'd say why the hell not. It's not like counterspelling is overpowered or anything.

Heck, I'd even let characters use spells from items, provided they make the spellcraft check.

Lysander
2010-01-29, 10:04 PM
Yes. I don't even see how that could be a question. The only difficulty would be predicting your opponent's action correctly so that you would already have the appropriate scroll in hand, since the readied counterspell action would not permit for an extra move action to retrieve a different scroll.

Interesting little known fact: You can have multiple spells scribed on a single scroll.


Physical Description

A scroll is a heavy sheet of fine vellum or high-quality paper. An area about 8 ½ inches wide and 11 inches long is sufficient to hold one spell. The sheet is reinforced at the top and bottom with strips of leather slightly longer than the sheet is wide. A scroll holding more than one spell has the same width (about 8 ½ inches) but is an extra foot or so long for each extra spell. Scrolls that hold three or more spells are usually fitted with reinforcing rods at each end rather than simple strips of leather. A scroll has AC 9, 1 hit point, hardness 0, and a break DC of 8.

Signmaker
2010-01-30, 01:20 AM
And how about an scroll of Limited Wish? Can it be used to counterspell? Do limited wish counts as the target spell if that spell is of apropriate level?

I can't find anything that would contradict that...interesting find.

PhoenixRivers
2010-01-30, 01:25 AM
Quick Draw and figure out the damage for making the scroll an improvised weapon?

Won't work. Even if you can draw the scroll as a free action, you can't do it when it's not your turn.

Readied actions give you a single standard action. Not a standard and a move. Not a standard and a free.

If the scroll isn't ready to use already, you're outta luck.