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Laharal
2010-01-29, 07:07 PM
I found two sets of rules for garroting 1 in 3.0 song and silence and one on dnd wiki.

Both mention:

Attack of Opportunity: You provoke an attack of
opportunity from the target you are trying to garrote. If
the attack of opportunity deals you damage, your garrote
attack fails.

What if the target is flat-footed? For me it seems illogical that if I sneak behind someone unoticed that they could perfom an attack of opportunity.. what do you think?

Tanaric
2010-01-29, 07:12 PM
If they have combat reflexes, they can take attacks of opportunity while flatfooted. If they don't, they can't.

Laharal
2010-01-29, 07:20 PM
But does the rule mean that even ''suprised'' (thus flat footed) can make attacks of opportunity?

Thanks to help me figure this one out

Flickerdart
2010-01-29, 07:45 PM
But does the rule mean that even ''suprised'' (thus flat footed) can make attacks of opportunity?

Thanks to help me figure this one out
The maneuver doesn't make your target attack. It just makes you provoke. You could be in a sea of flat-footed enemies and none of them would get the AOO regardless of how much you provoked them.

Talbot
2010-01-29, 07:48 PM
Would Improved Grapple negate the AoO?

Sophismata
2010-01-29, 08:17 PM
No. But they don't get the AoO unless they have Combat Reflexes.

RandomLunatic
2010-01-30, 12:17 AM
The Song and Silence version is a bit debatable whether Improved Grapple bypasses the AoO. RAW seems to indicate that while it works like a grappl,e it is not actually a grapple, and there fore Improved grapple would not negate the AoO, but I would allow it-the rules for it suck anyway.

The Wiki version is much better, and expressly says the IG feat will cancel the AoO. It still is way too weak, and curiously Rogue-types, which archetypically have medium BaBs and low STR scores, are still one of the worst suited to actually pulling off a successful attack.

Darrin
2010-01-30, 12:36 AM
It still is way too weak, and curiously Rogue-types, which archetypically have medium BaBs and low STR scores, are still one of the worst suited to actually pulling off a successful attack.

That's because rogue-types should be attacking with a garrote when the target isn't aware they are attacking, in which case the target doesn't threaten and doesn't get an AoO.

RandomLunatic
2010-01-30, 01:54 AM
That's because rogue-types should be attacking with a garrote when the target isn't aware they are attacking, in which case the target doesn't threaten and doesn't get an AoO.

AoOs are not the problem. The problem is that successful use of the garrote hinges on grapple checks, which rogues tend to be bad at for the previously-given reasons.

gorfnab
2010-01-30, 02:14 AM
You may want to take a look at the Strangulation article in Dragon Magazine #355. It mentions using a garrote as well as other methods of strangulation in D&D.

Splendor
2010-01-30, 03:02 AM
Garrote Attack (Dragon316 p42)
Effectively a Grapple with the Light Weapon being a strangling cord.

Step 1: Make a special Melee Touch attack to wrap the Garrote around the target’s neck. In addition to the target’s normal Touch AC, add the target’s Natural Armor Bonus, plus +4 if wearing Full Plate or a Leather Collar –or– +10 if wearing a Gorget. This attack generates an Attack of Opportunity. If the Attack of Opportunity deals damage, the Garrote Attack fails. This is a normal attack, so characters entitled to multiple attacks per round may make multiple attempts.
Step 2: Make a Grapple check. If successful, you move into the target’s square and begin doing Garrote damage (1d8 for a Medium-sized creature) plus 1½ Strength modifier. If the Grapple check fails, the target is no longer considered grappled. Moving into the target’s square generates Attacks of Opportunities from other foes, but not the target.
Step 3: For each Grapple check, do the Garrote damage. This continues until you release the Garrote or the target gets free. You both receive all the standard penalties for being in a grapple.

Dragon Magazine 355 (high points)
*Makes it an action you can do when grappling
*Using your hands to strangle imposes a -4 grapple check on the first grapple check ONLY.
*Whip, Steel Cable, Wire gain +3 bonus to grapple checks when strangling. (I think these would be after the initial grapple check, but it doesn't say that).
*Locking garrotes are exotic weapons. If you attempt to remove one from a strangling person its Disable Device DC 25 to remove it (or DC 10 if you have it as an exotic weapon) with a -5 if you attempt to remove it from yourself.
*You can hold your breath (see swimming rules in PHB)
*After you run out of breath and fail your suffocation CON check you drop to -1 hp and die the next round.
*Optional rule that you take damage in addition to suffocation. d3 subdual.

Person_Man
2010-01-30, 05:32 PM
As others have said, the garrote is basically meant to be used during the Surprise Round, and maybe the 1st round if you've won Initiative over your target. Your enemy does not get an AoO when flat footed, unless he has Combat Reflexes.

Another option is to get more reach (though Enlarge Person, Expansion, Deformity Tall, Aberration Blood, etc) then your target. If your target doesn't threaten you, he can't make an AoO.

Your Grapple check can be improved with Factotum 3, Marshal 1, soulmelds, anything that increases size, and/or anything that increases Str.