[3.5] Searing Spell

[Myou]

I noticed the Searing Spell feat from sandstorm proposed recently as a way to deal damage to normally immune creatures, and I was wondering, is there any way to make a creature immune to the damage of a searing spell? If not then it seems like a great feat, so it's odd that I only heard about it recently.

[ScionoftheVoid]

I noticed the Searing Spell feat from sandstorm proposed recently as a way to deal damage to normally immune creatures, and I was wondering, is there any way to make a creature immune to the damage of a searing spell? If not then it seems like a great feat, so it's odd that I only heard about it recently.

It is not mentioned as often as other feats because direct damage dealing, for a spellcaster, is often considered rather suboptimal. It is a great feat within it's niche but it is not often thought of as a really interesting or useful niche. Anyone can deal damage, but a caster can do so much more.

[Eldariel]

I noticed the Searing Spell feat from sandstorm proposed recently as a way to deal damage to normally immune creatures, and I was wondering, is there any way to make a creature immune to the damage of a searing spell? If not then it seems like a great feat, so it's odd that I only heard about it recently.

You've never checked any Incantatrix-threads. It is theoretically possible to make some characters completely immune to damage, but beyond that, Searing Spell gets through everything. The thing is though, outside high-end optimization, it's incredibly rare to run into anything completely immune to every form of damage, making it somewhat redundant.

Now, Arcane Thesist of course wants Searing Spell since he by definition specializes in one spell and thus needs to ensure that spell remains usable regardless of the circumstance, so picking a Fire-spell (or any spell that can be Subbed into Fire) and making it deal damage to everyone is a good trade for 'em. Most Wizards lack the room and the need for said feat though hence why it isn't brought up that often.

[BobVosh]

It does half damage to things that are immune. Throw on fire resist and it should take care of the rest.

[Eldariel]

It does half damage to things that are immune. Throw on fire resist and it should take care of the rest.

Huh? What's the Fire Resist for?

[AmberVael]

It does half damage to things that are immune. Throw on fire resist and it should take care of the rest.

You should note that it not only half-bypasses immunity, it also completely ignores fire resistance.

[BobVosh]

You are immune. He searing fireballs you, for 30. 15 gets through from searing. Resist fire lowers that to 0.

Strike that, I just reread the feat. I thought it only messed with immunity, didn't know it went through immunity.

[Viletta Vadim]

+1 spell level adjustment on already suboptimal spells tends to hurt, regardless of the gains. Though considering the shear badassery of being able to burn Kossuth to death? Muhuhu.

Huh? What's the Fire Resist for?
The theory is, have immunity eat the Searing Spell, reducing it to half damage, then have fire resistance protect from the remainder. The problem being, Searing ignores said resistance, making the technique useless.

Edit: Heh. Ninja'd twice.

[Myou]

You've never checked any Incantatrix-threads. It is theoretically possible to make some characters completely immune to damage, but beyond that, Searing Spell gets through everything. The thing is though, outside high-end optimization, it's incredibly rare to run into anything completely immune to every form of damage, making it somewhat redundant.

Now, Arcane Thesist of course wants Searing Spell since he by definition specializes in one spell and thus needs to ensure that spell remains usable regardless of the circumstance, so picking a Fire-spell (or any spell that can be Subbed into Fire) and making it deal damage to everyone is a good trade for 'em. Most Wizards lack the room and the need for said feat though hence why it isn't brought up that often.

I probably just wasn't paying attention. It's in the Mailman I take it?

And do you have any examples/links of/to immune to damage builds?


Thanks for the info. ^^

[Eldariel]

The Mailman just uses some other spells IIRC. The "simple" build doesn't contain Searing Spell. That said, just look at any Incantatrix-thread here and I'm pretty sure Searing Spell is included.

As for damage-immunity, Ikea Tarrasque (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20160) is the basic template monster for that. Of course, you can do it with magic too; Delay Death + Beastland Ferocity doesn't precisely make you immune to damage, but it does make you immune to any adverse effects damage normally has on people (like dying or being disabled or such). Make 'em Supernatural and Persist 'em and nothing short of an AMF is gonna trouble you. Just for a few of the more common ideas. I'm sure others will mention the more obscure ones.



The theory is, have immunity eat the Searing Spell, reducing it to half damage, then have fire resistance protect from the remainder. The problem being, Searing ignores said resistance, making the technique useless.

Not to mention, Empowered Admixtured Searing ORb would deal ~80 points through immunity so even if Resist worked, it'd still be dealing 60 to the face.

[Viletta Vadim]

And do you have any examples/links of/to immune to damage builds?
Half black dragon half construct wartroll.

Wartrolls have regeneration that can only be bypassed by acid damage, with all other damage being converted to nonlethal.

Half black dragon means the wartroll is immune to acid.

As a half construct, the wartroll becomes immune to nonlethal damage, and since everything is nonlethal damage, that means immunity to damage.

Of course, trollbane still cuts through.

[shadow_archmagi]

Arcane Thesist

I realize this is just the name of a build that includes "arcane thesis" but that sounds like a really cool character concept: Pick one spell, use it for as many things as possible. I can imagine the flavor text

What!? Did you seriously just try to use forcecage on me? Ha! I wrote the book on forcecages! It's six miles long and ten miles high because the text is made of forcecages!

-Throm Sturbix, Arcane Thesist

[Superglucose]

I noticed the Searing Spell feat from sandstorm proposed recently as a way to deal damage to normally immune creatures, and I was wondering, is there any way to make a creature immune to the damage of a searing spell? If not then it seems like a great feat, so it's odd that I only heard about it recently.
Reflex Save + Evasion.

Edit: Or Moderate School Estorica in Abjuration, or a Rod of Negation.

[Starbuck_II]

Reflex Save + Evasion.

Edit: Or Moderate School Estorica in Abjuration, or a Rod of Negation.

You'll need touch AC as well for rays and ranged touch attacks.

[Fluffles]

You'll need touch AC as well for rays and ranged touch attacks.
Wings of cover :)

[JeminiZero]

Half black dragon half construct wartroll.


Yeah, that will stop searing spell from dealing lethal damage, but you can still knock it out from non-lethal. You need a whole bunch of other stuff to really make it work.

Look up the Emerald Legion in my sig.

[Thurbane]

Gotta love the arms race between the player (irresistable force) and the DM (immovable object). :smalleek:

...if I ever find myself in a game with casters throwing spells that overcome everything at monster's that resist everything, I'll just roll myself up a Commoner 1 and be the stable hand. :smalltongue:

[Viletta Vadim]

Yeah, that will stop searing spell from dealing lethal damage, but you can still knock it out from non-lethal. You need a whole bunch of other stuff to really make it work.
Er... but as constructs, they're immune to nonlethal. So, all damage becomes nonlethal, which the half-black-dragon half-construct wartroll is immune to, resulting in immunity to all damage. Unless trollbane is involved.

...if I ever find myself in a game with casters throwing spells that overcome everything at monster's that resist everything, I'll just roll myself up a Commoner 1 and be the stable hand. :smalltongue:
That's actually a pretty twinked out build at lower levels. Crank Handle Animal, then clean house with cheap warbred dire elephants. Of course, that still isn't gonna hurt the immortal wartroll.

[Thurbane]

That's actually a pretty twinked out build at lower levels. Crank Handle Animal, then clean house with cheap warbred dire elephants. Of course, that still isn't gonna hurt the immortal wartroll.
Funny you should say that... (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7125840&postcount=6)

[JeminiZero]

Er... but as constructs, they're immune to nonlethal. So, all damage becomes nonlethal, which the half-black-dragon half-construct wartroll is immune to, resulting in immunity to all damage. Unless trollbane is involved.


Where exactly is this half-construct from? The only 2 semi-construct ypes I know of are Golem Grafts (which does not change type provided you succeed a will save) and Living Constructs (Warforged). Neither of which are immune to nonlethal on their own.

There is also Raggamoffyn, but that does not fully benefit from troll regen.

[Viletta Vadim]

Where exactly is this half-construct from? The only 2 semi-construct ypes I know of are Golem Grafts (which does not change type provided you succeed a will save) and Living Constructs (Warforged). Neither of which are immune to nonlethal on their own.
Correction. Half-golem. Monster Manual 2.

[NelKor]

Problem with the Half black dragon half construct Wartroll.. a construct means it loses its Con to health, and Regeneration requires a Con score to work, doesn't it?

[JeminiZero]

Correction. Half-golem. Monster Manual 2.

That doesn't provide immunity to non-lethal. Unless you fail the will save and become a full construct. In which case you lose your con score and cannot benefit from regeneration.

Seriously though, give Emerald Legion a read, it was quite extensively researched for this purpose.

[Viletta Vadim]

Crap. Missed that.

[Frosty]

Also, what kind of kinky crap happened to make a Half black dragon half construct wartroll?

[Eldariel]

Also, what kind of kinky crap happened to make a Half black dragon half construct wartroll?

A Wizard happened.

[SurlySeraph]

@^: A black dragon with an overactive libido (high CHA), an interest in crafting constructs (arcane caster, high INT), and no sense of right and wrong (chromatic dragon).

[Viletta Vadim]

Also, what kind of kinky crap happened to make a Half black dragon half construct wartroll?
Well, dragons can mate with anything, and half-golem is an acquired template.

[JeminiZero]

Also, what kind of kinky crap happened to make a Half black dragon half construct wartroll?

Read Emerald Legion. It even has a logical explanation for that :smallbiggrin:

[sofawall]

That doesn't provide immunity to non-lethal. Unless you fail the will save and become a full construct. In which case you lose your con score and cannot benefit from regeneration.

Seriously though, give Emerald Legion a read, it was quite extensively researched for this purpose.

There are Con:- creatures kicking around with regeneration, you know.

[The Glyphstone]

Half-Golem isn't even a breeding template anyways, it's a cyborg golem limb glued onto someone's body that drives them crazy.

[Viletta Vadim]

There are Con:- creatures kicking around with regeneration, you know.
You're probably thinking fast healing.

[absolmorph]

Funny you should say that... (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7125840&postcount=6)
Bubs told me to say hi. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7097263&postcount=38)

[sofawall]

You're probably thinking fast healing.
No, actually, I'm not. I know of one, and there are likely others.

[JeminiZero]

There are Con:- creatures kicking around with regeneration, you know.

Those are probably cases of specific trumps general. In this particular case, there is nothing specific that permits a construct converted troll to continue regenerating.

[absolmorph]

Those are probably cases of specific trumps general. In this particular case, there is nothing specific that permits a construct converted troll to continue regenerating.
What would stop it?

[Viletta Vadim]

What would stop it?
A certain clause in the regeneration ability itself. "A creature must have a Constitution score to have the regeneration ability."

Lose the constitution score, lose the regeneration.

[absolmorph]

A certain clause in the regeneration ability itself. "A creature must have a Constitution score to have the regeneration ability."

Lose the constitution score, lose the regeneration.
Just reread it myself and saw that.

[KillianHawkeye]

No, actually, I'm not. I know of one, and there are likely others.

Well, what creature is it? Now I'm curious.

[sofawall]

Well, what creature is it? Now I'm curious.

Atropal, in the SRD.

[olelia]

Atropal, in the SRD.

I believe that's because the epic monsters where written in 3.0 when they were allowed regeneration.



Undead with no Intelligence scores cannot heal damage on their own, though they can be healed. Negative energy (such as an inflict wounds spell) can heal undead creatures. The regeneration and fast healing special qualities work regardless of the creature's Intelligence score.

[Myou]

Something of an addendum, does Consecrate spell also allow you to get around all immunities? I ask because it seems to be better than Searing for the same cost, but perhaps there's a catch?

BoED, P42, makes your spell [Good] and makes half the damage untyped.

[JeminiZero]

It still doesn't get past certain kinds of regeneration I think.

[Myou]

It still doesn't get past certain kinds of regeneration I think.

You mean a creature which regenerates from anything but fire and acid? Does that mean nothing regenerates from fire damage?

[Xenogears]

You mean a creature which regenerates from anything but fire and acid? Does that mean nothing regenerates from fire damage?

War Trolls regenerate from anything but Acid. Crystal Trolls regenerate from anything but Sonic. So in order to prevent regen to ANY creature we need at the least a spell that does Acid and Sonic damage...

Edit: Crystalline Trolls not Crystal.

[JeminiZero]

You mean a creature which regenerates from anything but fire and acid? Does that mean nothing regenerates from fire damage?

Not necessarily. There are lots of regeneration kinds. War-Trolls for example regenerate from fire but not acid. Tendriculos have regeneration/bludgeoning or acid. Chain Devils have regeneration/silver or good. And than there's the Tarrasque which regenerates from everything.

[Teron]

Something of an addendum, does Consecrate spell also allow you to get around all immunities? I ask because it seems to be better than Searing for the same cost, but perhaps there's a catch?

BoED, P42, makes your spell [Good] and makes half the damage untyped.
That's much worse than Searing Spell, aside from the fact that it's not limited to fire spells (and it beats a pit fiend's regeneration, I guess). It's the same against enemies immune to fire, nearly useless against resistant enemies (they can still subtract their resistance from the fire half), and weaker against creatures vulnerable to fire (reducing the extra damage from 50% to 25%, while Searing Spell doubles it against cold subtype creatures).

[lesser_minion]

Atropal, in the SRD.

Actually, that simply doesn't benefit from its regeneration. There's nothing that makes it a specific exception, so it isn't one.

[AmberVael]

Actually, that simply doesn't benefit from its regeneration. There's nothing that makes it a specific exception, so it isn't one.

Incorrect. The specific clause in regeneration is:


A creature must have a Constitution score to have the regeneration ability.

Therefore, any creature that has no constitution score who has regeneration is an exception simply because it is stated that they have it.

[Sinfire Titan]

It is not mentioned as often as other feats because direct damage dealing, for a spellcaster, is often considered rather suboptimal. It is a great feat within it's niche but it is not often thought of as a really interesting or useful niche. Anyone can deal damage, but a caster can do so much more.

It's mentioned whenever someone wants to play a blaster. You are right, though Blasting with a side order of GOD is still Tier 3. It isn't that it outright sucks, its just inefficient resource management (considering the party's Tank can dish out 400 damage/round at will with no save).


A properly optimized blaster is likely a Psion or a Sorcerer due to resource management. Wizards can do it, but the Sorcerer gets Arcane Fusion, Arcane Spellsurge, and Wings of Flurry without jumping through hoops. And the Psion is known for being able to Nova like no one's business.

[JoshuaZ]

Actually, that simply doesn't benefit from its regeneration. There's nothing that makes it a specific exception, so it isn't one.

That's an interesting reading of the rules. Intent seems pretty obvious that it is supposed to be able to, otherwise why would they have listed it?

[Bayar]

Also, what kind of kinky crap happened to make a Half black dragon half construct wartroll?

Someone found the Effigy template.

[Boci]

Crap. Missed that.

I believe warforged juggernaught and master of many forms is the only way to get regeneration and immunity to subdual damage. Works best in gestalt but you should be able to fit it into 20 levels.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I believe warforged juggernaught and master of many forms is the only way to get regeneration and immunity to subdual damage. Works best in gestalt but you should be able to fit it into 20 levels.

Warforged Ranger (Wildshape variant)/WarforgedJuggernaught/MoMF should do the trick nicely.

[Boci]

Warforged Ranger (Wildshape variant)/WarforgedJuggernaught/MoMF should do the trick nicely.

True. Depending on exactly what animal you wildhsape into you may still need something to get you immune to what ever overcomes your regenerations. Probably wartroll, so what the cheapest way to get constant, undispelable acid immunity? Isn't there a void something template? Or you could go the classic 1/2 black dragon.