....... Wait a second! PHYSICS!

[Xesirin]

Was rereading 701 when it hit me.

How 'exactly' does an umbrella prevent MitD from being seen??? :smalleek:

This is a mockery of wave physics as we know them! JUSTICE MUST BE SERVED!

.................

Oh yeah.....

Anyone got any theories? :smallwink:

[Maximum Zersk]

Magical Darkness.

[Darius1020]

A wizard did it.

[Maximum Zersk]

Okay, you know what, scratch my first theory, since that's obvious, and I'm pretty sure it was mentioned by someone in-comic.

Okay, so we know that if a crest and a trough of a wave meet they cancel each other out, right. The umbrella somehow cancels out each wave within a certain radius. Good enough for you?

[Zanaril]

It has a darkbulb fixed inside it.

[Kish]

A wizard did it.
You mean a sorcerer, right? Or do you have a burning desire to be killed and animated as a ghoul for mortally insulting Xykon?

[Teddy]

Was rereading 701 when it hit me.

How 'exactly' does an umbrella prevent MitD from being seen??? :smalleek:

Sunlight penetrates magical darkness, IIRC, so the umbrella is needed to prevent the sunlight from hitting him and thus revealing him.

[Optimystik]

Hello Kitty umbrellas block LoE, which in turn restricts emanations.

(Note how much further his darkness spreads when he puts the umbrella down - filling the panel vertically.)

[Watcher]

MitD seems to have to set the umbrella down to pull on the rope as well. Another clue to what the MitD is?

Or maybe he just set down the umbrella because it's hard to hold something and pull a rope at the same time?

[Optimystik]

MitD seems to have to set the umbrella down to pull on the rope as well. Another clue to what the MitD is?

All it really tells us is that he has some kind of appendage(s) to hold things with, and that he needed it/them free to pull on the rope - so he's not a mass of writhing tentacles at the very least.


Or maybe he just set down the umbrella because it's hard to hold something and pull a rope at the same time?

As in the first part of my post, that can give us a clue to his identity. He also pulls something in SoD:

a steak, which is how he gets captured in the first place.

[Makensha]

So either he has only one appendage to hold stuff with OR is not strong enough to pull the rope with the one or more appendages he also has... which kinda tells us almost nothing.

[Optimystik]

I think we can safely rule out "not strong enough."

[bsparrow]

I believe this is a combination of Rule of Funny and Power of Plot. Rich says we don't get to see MitD until the perfect moment, so we don't get to see MitD until the perfect moment.

But yeah, in the OotS universe, it doesn't really make sense. I blame invisible wizard gnomes.

[Felyndiira]

It's quite simple. There's a black curtain attached to the umbrella, so the MitD is actually hidden by indestructible unobtainium curtains.

Of course, the curtain also has two oval shaped luminescent yellow felt pads to imitate the MitD's eyes.

[ChowGuy]

Or maybe he just set down the umbrella because it's hard to hold something and pull a rope at the same time?I believe monster-san addressed that very issue himself: "Pulling has all those tricky parts where you have hold something AND move it. At the same time." Imagine howmuch harder it is to hold two somethings while moving one of them.


So either he has only one appendage to hold stuff with OR is not strong enough to pull the rope with the one or more appendages he also has... which kinda tells us almost nothing.Ever try to pull a rope from a fix position (as in this case to open a curtain) with one hand?

[drengnikrafe]

I had an idea on this. Though I doubt it would work properly, anyone with enough persistance and clever wording could probably convince their DM to create a special item that had permanancied "Iron Heart Surge" on it. If the MitD is negatively influenced by sunlight, then the umbrella could, as per RAI, prevent the sun from touching the MitD. Hey, if you can permanacy spells, why not maneuvers? Because WotC wasn't clever enough?

Alternatively, epic level magic. It can create alternate planes, it can eliminate the earth, it can do... anything. Why not block out the sun?

[multilis]

You mean a sorcerer, right? Or do you have a burning desire to be killed and animated as a ghoul for mortally insulting Xykon?Actually MiTD's father Loki did it, but he lets his unwitting pawn X think he did it... a bit of divine magic.

[rewinn]

Sunlight penetrates magical darkness, IIRC, so the umbrella is needed to prevent the sunlight from hitting him and thus revealing him.
Perhaps the umbrella has had cast upon it a permanent illusion of darkness. It's not actual darkness, it only looks like it.

This would allow MiTD to be in places lit by sources whose rays would not hit the umbrella, e.g. rooms lit by torches, the plain before Azure City at sunrise, and still remain in darkness.

[itaibn]

This has a perfectly rational explanation using quantum physics. Since Mitd is very clumsy, to hold the umbrella he has to know exactly where the umbrella is. By the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, that must mean nobody can know anything about what he is. See! Completely real and legitimate physics!

[Witty Username]

The spell Deeper Darkness blocks all light, I heard of a guy using vampire as a player character with it.

[spectralphoenix]

Sunlight penetrates magical darkness, IIRC, so the umbrella is needed to prevent the sunlight from hitting him and thus revealing him.

You don't recall correctly. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/darkness.htm)

Edit:
And Deeper Darkness doesn't block all light. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/deeperDarkness.htm)

[Durgok]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/darkness.htm


If darkness is cast on a small object that is then placed inside or under a lightproof covering, the spell’s effect is blocked until the covering is removed.

Or in this case... it radiates downward, whereas when he sets it down it radiates out from inside the umbrella still concealing him.

[Teddy]

You don't recall correctly. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/darkness.htm)

Edit:
And Deeper Darkness doesn't block all light. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/deeperDarkness.htm)

I wouldn't say that direct sunlight is equal to torchlight when it comes to defeating magical darkness. Can we know for sure that the sun is non-magical...? Perhaps it's an Epic Light spell...


http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/darkness.htm

Or in this case... it radiates downward, whereas when he sets it down it radiates out from inside the umbrella still concealing him.

In #701, the top of the umbrella is pointing towards MitD. I would say that the darkness is cast on him and not the umbrella.

[TriForce]

In #701, the top of the umbrella is pointing towards MitD. I would say that the darkness is cast on him and not the umbrella.

really? i knew i could never be something as simple as STANDING IN THE NONMAGICAL SHADOWS.

[Teddy]

really? i knew i could never be something as simple as STANDING IN THE NONMAGICAL SHADOWS.

Well, I've never seen a room where the shadow is in the middle along the wall and not in the corner (#701 once again), and even rooms that lack good light sources tend to be pretty visible even in the corners as long as nothing shadows them. A large balcony is pretty clearly a major light source, but it won't allow direct sunlight.

[Garwain]

I think this is clearly a case of inner darkness. The Umbrella is merely a way of shielding himself from the world. The MitD feels insecure which results in a physical alteration of reality, reflecting his emotions.

An insecure teenager would wish to be invisible for the world. Well MitD has the power to make this happen. I bet that once the MitD becomes aware of his true strength, it will no longer hide in the shadows. It just need a bit of encouragement, and he's not getting it in gobbotopia where it is only good enough for pulling and pushing.

[martinkou]

I think this is clearly a case of inner darkness. The Umbrella is merely a way of shielding himself from the world. The MitD feels insecure which results in a physical alteration of reality, reflecting his emotions.

An insecure teenager would wish to be invisible for the world. Well MitD has the power to make this happen. I bet that once the MitD becomes aware of his true strength, it will no longer hide in the shadows. It just need a bit of encouragement, and he's not getting it in gobbotopia where it is only good enough for pulling and pushing.

MitD is an emo? That's so uncool.

[Kieran Cage]

You've heard of a Ring of Spell Storing? An Arrow of Orc Slaying?

This is clearly an Umbrella of MitD Darkening.

Look for it in an upcoming Paizo splatbook :smalltongue:

[Endarire]

Maybe it's a custom spell that produces darkness and blocks sunlight/torchlight/etc.

[Woodsman]

I think this is clearly a case of inner darkness. The Umbrella is merely a way of shielding himself from the world. The MitD feels insecure which results in a physical alteration of reality, reflecting his emotions.

An insecure teenager would wish to be invisible for the world. Well MitD has the power to make this happen. I bet that once the MitD becomes aware of his true strength, it will no longer hide in the shadows. It just need a bit of encouragement, and he's not getting it in gobbotopia where it is only good enough for pulling and pushing.

But as we've seen before,the MitD wants to be seen.Aside: I weep for the catgirls lost because we've brought up physics like this yet again.

[Draconi Redfir]

*Sigh* guys. Wow. I had to make an account just to point out something so simple; it astounds me no one else thought of it.

The creature itself dose NOT have darkness cast upon it. How would Xylon reveal it if it did?

The umbrella has a spell on it, which causes magical darkness that removes all light from the area directly beneath it. When closed, this effect is effectively "turned off". a similar spell is probably cast upon his box, keeping it dark on the inside.

If the monster should need to come out of his box, or his umbrella for any reason, another, larger magical darkness must be cast somewhere for him to do so, most likely done by Redcloak and/or Xylon himself.

The monster is not harmed by light

The monster is not emitting darkness.

The umbrella emits the darkness down from its tip when it is open, and an area of darkness is cast when the monster is outside his box and umbrella.

Its that simple.

[drengnikrafe]

*Sigh* guys. Wow. I had to make an account just to point out something so simple; it astounds me no one else thought of it.

The creature itself dose NOT have darkness cast upon it. How would Xylon reveal it if it did?

The umbrella has a spell on it, which causes magical darkness that removes all light from the area directly beneath it. When closed, this effect is effectively "turned off". a similar spell is probably cast upon his box, keeping it dark on the inside.

If the monster should need to come out of his box, or his umbrella for any reason, another, larger magical darkness must be cast somewhere for him to do so, most likely done by Redcloak and/or Xylon himself.

The monster is not harmed by light

The monster is not emitting darkness.

The umbrella emits the darkness down from its tip when it is open, and an area of darkness is cast when the monster is outside his box and umbrella.

Its that simple.

Xykon could cast Epic Dispel Magic to get rid of continual darkness that was cast on the monster itself, with the umbrella just being for show.
Just saying, it is possible. It also prevents the MitD from revealing itself.

[Durgok]

*Sigh* guys. Wow. I had to make an account just to point out something so simple; it astounds me no one else thought of it.

The creature itself dose NOT have darkness cast upon it. How would Xylon reveal it if it did?

The umbrella has a spell on it, which causes magical darkness that removes all light from the area directly beneath it. When closed, this effect is effectively "turned off". a similar spell is probably cast upon his box, keeping it dark on the inside.

If the monster should need to come out of his box, or his umbrella for any reason, another, larger magical darkness must be cast somewhere for him to do so, most likely done by Redcloak and/or Xylon himself.

The monster is not harmed by light

The monster is not emitting darkness.

The umbrella emits the darkness down from its tip when it is open, and an area of darkness is cast when the monster is outside his box and umbrella.

Its that simple.

Pretty much the point I was making, thank you for voicing it a bit better than I did.

[derfenrirwolv]

You need two hands (claws tentacles mouths etc) to pull a rope more than twice the length of your arm, no matter how strong you are, unless you want to walk backwards.

[Teddy]

...

The creature itself dose NOT have darkness cast upon it. How would Xylon reveal it if it did?

...

Ever heard of the possibility of dissmissing spells? The Dissmiss-(D) shows that it is possible to dissmiss both Darkness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/darkness.htm) and Deeper Darkness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/deeperDarkness.htm) with but a standard action that provokes no AoO.

[Cealocanth]

How about this?

The creature emits/has had a spell cast on him that causes him to appear the way he does via. illusion. The monster could be the size of a giant and we could not know.

Of course, only Xykon and Redcloak can see him in his true form.

I understand he could appear completely invisible if this were true. He may look like this just for Xykon's sick ammusement. (vampire hello kitties on a pink umbrella)

[Teddy]

How about this?

The creature emits/has had a spell cast on him that causes him to appear the way he does via. illusion. The monster could be the size of a giant and we could not know.

Of course, only Xykon and Redcloak can see him in his true form.

I understand he could appear completely invisible if this were true. He may look like this just for Xykon's sick ammusement. (vampire hello kitties on a pink umbrella)

A giant hid by an illusion would still have a hell of a time getting through an ordinary door. And the hello kitties doesn't have vampiric teeth, it's just their whiskers.

[TriForce]

*Sigh* guys. Wow. I had to make an account just to point out something so simple; it astounds me no one else thought of it.

The creature itself dose NOT have darkness cast upon it. How would Xylon reveal it if it did?

The umbrella has a spell on it, which causes magical darkness that removes all light from the area directly beneath it. When closed, this effect is effectively "turned off". a similar spell is probably cast upon his box, keeping it dark on the inside.

If the monster should need to come out of his box, or his umbrella for any reason, another, larger magical darkness must be cast somewhere for him to do so, most likely done by Redcloak and/or Xylon himself.

The monster is not harmed by light

The monster is not emitting darkness.

The umbrella emits the darkness down from its tip when it is open, and an area of darkness is cast when the monster is outside his box and umbrella.

Its that simple.

thank you.

to put it simple, everyone who even considers Gicko to be wrong (on this) should stop posting on this forum and actually read the comic once in a while.

[Spiky]

You need two hands (claws tentacles mouths etc) to pull a rope more than twice the length of your arm, no matter how strong you are, unless you want to walk backwards.

Not really. There are at least 2 points in physics that would allow you to pull something farther than the length of your arm. And both are very common. The first certainly would apply to the MitD as it relies on strength.

1) Momentum
2) Rotation

[Math_Mage]

Not really. There are at least 2 points in physics that would allow you to pull something farther than the length of your arm. And both are very common. The first certainly would apply to the MitD as it relies on strength.

1) Momentum
2) Rotation

I think we can safely rule out (2) as a justification. Imagine: not only do you have to hold something and pull it at the same time, but you have to ROTATE it too? (for that matter, what is MitD going to rotate it around?)

(1) would certainly apply, of course. If MitD's lightest tap sends Miko and Windstrider flying, its lightest pull is surely more than enough to open the curtains completely. However:


I believe monster-san addressed that very issue himself: "Pulling has all those tricky parts where you have hold something AND move it. At the same time." Imagine howmuch harder it is to hold two somethings while moving one of them.

This still applies.

[wowy319]

It's a comic, and it's supposed to be silly.

/thread

[Kaerou]

Physics, in a comic where people routinely fire lightning bolts from their hands and undead walk and talk?

[Lvl45DM!]

as opposed to the silent unmoving UNdead in the real world?

[rewinn]

I think we can safely rule out (2) as a justification. Imagine: not only do you have to hold something and pull it at the same time, but you have to ROTATE it too? (for that matter, what is MitD going to rotate it around?)


A capstan with 1-meter-long arms can reel in a very very long piece of rope, likewise a winch with no arm at all. MitD may be some sort of animated capstan or a creature that is comfortable turning in place; perhaps MitD is a Very Young Gazebo! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoTTLusJ8mU)

[Dr.Epic]

A wizard did it.

Xykon's a sorcerer dude.