Possible infinite XP trick? [3.5]

[Fortuna]

So we're all familiar with the trick to gain infinite healing by means of psionic shenanigans. Is it possible to use the same trick with xp gain? If so, then can't you get arbitrarily high xp gain blocks in a single round, but with the xp gain seperated out into seperate chunks to gain you infinite levels? And if yes to the first but no to the second, then can't you store all your ill-gotten xp in a Thought Bottle to gain infinite levels anyway, albeit more slowly?

[Grynning]

So we're all familiar with the trick to gain infinite healing by means of psionic shenanigans. Is it possible to use the same trick with xp gain? If so, then can't you get arbitrarily high xp gain blocks in a single round, but with the xp gain seperated out into seperate chunks to gain you infinite levels? And if yes to the first but no to the second, then can't you store all your ill-gotten xp in a Thought Bottle to gain infinite levels anyway, albeit more slowly?

Well, the DMG states that you can't earn more than 1 level + enough to take you to one XP below the next level from a single encounter. So even if you did try to piss off a DM with something like this, and they were willing to let it work (once), that's the most you could gain from it.

[Jack_Simth]

So we're all familiar with the trick to gain infinite healing by means of psionic shenanigans. Is it possible to use the same trick with xp gain? If so, then can't you get arbitrarily high xp gain blocks in a single round, but with the xp gain seperated out into seperate chunks to gain you infinite levels? And if yes to the first but no to the second, then can't you store all your ill-gotten xp in a Thought Bottle to gain infinite levels anyway, albeit more slowly?

Umm... I've yet to see any psionic power that lets you gain XP. Likewise, the Thought Bottle only lets you store your experiences - drawing them out twice after storing them doesn't give you double XP; it just restores you to the level you had after storing them in the thought bottle (which is still rather broken, mind, but not on the level of infinite XP).

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Umm... I've yet to see any psionic power that lets you gain XP. Likewise, the Thought Bottle only lets you store your experiences - drawing them out twice after storing them doesn't give you double XP; it just restores you to the level you had after storing them in the thought bottle (which is still rather broken, mind, but not on the level of infinite XP).

I don't know how he's getting infinite xp through the trick, however if you do find a way to pull it off, using a Thought Bottle to siphon off 'excess' xp after the whole 'one level and 1 xp short of the next' cap will let you continue to level up by basically allowing the xp past cap to count.

You level up, get to 1 xp short of your next level. That's as much xp as you can gain in one shot. The rest of the xp goes into the Bottle.

When your trick is done, you level up. Hooray. You get a single level.

Then you pull out as much xp from the bottle as you need to do it again.

You level up again.

Repeat ad infinitum.

[Fortuna]

Ah, just reread Affinity Field. Doesn't work, sadly: I was under the impression that everything got transferred, but in fact it's a limited list.

[Koury]

So, does this work:

Summon/Call CR appropriate monster.
Kill it.
Gain XP.
Repeat.

Is there something I am missing that makes this not work? Because if not, I'm making me a crafting wizard and making whatever I damned well please.

[ArcanistSupreme]

I'm pretty sure the PHB or DMG explicitly states that no exp is gained from summoned monsters. This is because they are considered to be part of the CR of the summoner; you don't get exp for being hit with Disintegrate, so why would you gain exp from being hit with Summon Monster VI?

[Dexam]

So, does this work:

Summon/Call CR appropriate monster.
Kill it.
Gain XP.
Repeat.

Is there something I am missing that makes this not work? Because if not, I'm making me a crafting wizard and making whatever I damned well please.
If I recall correctly, Summoned creatures (Summon Monster, Summon Natures Allay, etc) are not worth XP. However, Called creatures (Planar Binding, Planar Allay, Gate) are worth XP if they are fought.

[Koury]

At level 16, a CR 16 monster is worth 4800 XP. Even if you take a -1000 hit from gate (and I know there are other ways to call) you still gain a lot.

Surely there is some particularly easy to kill CR 16 out there, especially if you prepare for it. Cast the gate horizontally over a pit of lava and call some ice creature or something.

Do this a few times and pay off your +5 stat wishes. A few more to make all those items you feel like making (using more wishes to get the GP safely) and you win, right?

[Eurus]

Assuming you ignore the clause about a fight needing to be genuinely hazardous to give you experience, sure. :smallamused:

[Koury]

What about the clause saying that you don't get less XP just because your smart tactics made a fight easier?

[Koury]

Or, if you really want to, straight up deathmatch whatever you call in. You're a freakin Wizard, after all :smallbiggrin:

Hell, 4800/4 is still more XP the the Gate costs.

4 Wizards.
Wiz A casts gate.
Monster dies.
Wiz B casts gate
Monster dies
Etc, etc.

You can rest in between each fight for full spells. After all 4 wizards have cast gate once you are at 3800 XP anyway. Same thing just slightly slower. Plus the more you do it, the stronger you become (from your new items and whatnot)

[Dexam]

Surely there is some particularly easy to kill CR 16 out there, especially if you prepare for it. Cast the gate horizontally over a pit of lava and call some ice creature or something.
This particular example won't work - when Conjuring a creature, it has to be conjured on a surface capable of supporting it:


A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.

An ice creature would sink into lava, therefore it wouldn't be able to be conjured in the first place.

[Akal Saris]

Technically it should work (and then you can use the dead outsider as a zombie!), but at this point you might as well be farming exp in an MMO =P

[Tanuki Tales]

An ice creature would sink into lava, therefore it wouldn't be able to be conjured in the first place.

So you can never use a summoning spell under water then, eh?

Or in a swamp.

Or on the Elemental Plane of Air (in some cases).

[Koury]

This particular example won't work - when Conjuring a creature, it has to be conjured on a surface capable of supporting it:

Thats debatable. The Gate itself can be made over the lava. Gate also doesn't 'bring into being or transport to your location' a creature. It makes a portal near one of the creatures you named and forces them to go through it. Theres a difference.
By naming a particular being or kind of being as you cast the spell, you cause the gate to open in the immediate vicinity of the desired creature and pull the subject through, willing or unwilling. Deities and unique beings are under no compulsion to come through the gate, although they may choose to do so of their own accord. This use of the spell creates a gate that remains open just long enough to transport the called creatures.

Its also irrelevant, however, since I was mostly just curious if the premise worked in the first place :smallbiggrin:

[Green Bean]

So you can never use a summoning spell under water then, eh?

Or in a swamp.

Or on the Elemental Plane of Air (in some cases).

You can, as long as wherever they are summoned is capable of supporting them. If you're under water, summon Celestial Dolphins and whatnot, and if you're in the Plane of Air, summon fliers.

[ArcanistSupreme]

So a wizard with gate on his spell list can just say to the DM, "I get enough exp to be level 20. I then produce enough exp to do whatever I want to, completely bypassing the expensive exp costs that are supposed to prevent me from spamming certain spells or creating ridiculous amounts of magic items."

As if wizards weren't already broken enough...

[Koury]

I...

You...

Your name is ArcanistSupreme. Aren't you happy about this? :smallbiggrin:

Also, there are plenty of ways besides Gate to call a creature. Just sayin :smalltongue:

EDIT: Also, this is hardly Wizard only. A lot of spellcasters can call creatures.

[AslanCross]

If any player tried this on me, no matter what their justifications may be, I get to take my dice, shove them up his/her nostrils, and handily punch them in the nose. Then I get to drag them out my driveway, back my car up over them, and then drive forward. Then I ban them from my games for all eternity.

In other words:

<Player> *broken recursion trick*
<Me> Don't make me violate your human rights.

[ArcanistSupreme]

I...

You...

Your name is ArcanistSupreme. Aren't you happy about this? :smallbiggrin:

Also, there are plenty of ways besides Gate to call a creature. Just sayin :smalltongue:

EDIT: Also, this is hardly Wizard only. A lot of spellcasters can call creatures.

I like wizards, but I feel that infinite+1 power isn't really any better than plain old infinite power:smalltongue:

[Koury]

Well, if you go the actual fight route, I'm failing to see any technical difference it could make. Maybe the Gate opened near a whole bunch of [creature] who were celebrating a birthday party and now you have to deal with them ALL. Gating something into a death-trap for free XP, while cool, is slightly more broken :smallbiggrin:

Honestly though, this idea just makes sense :smallcool:

No, you should never do this.

[Koury]

I like wizards, but I feel that infinite+1 power isn't really any better than plain old infinite power:smalltongue:

I know of at least one ambiguously gendered wizard who'd disagree :smallwink: