The Flag

[Tordek]

I don't see a thread about it, so here's my guess:

The Green, Orange, and Brown stars represent Goblins, Hobgoblins, and Bugbears. The Blue represents the new capitol, Azure City, and the blue-cloaks that were slayed to found this great nation.

Anyone got a better idea?

[Iuris]

I think the bluish one has more to do with the colors of the Dark one in Start of darkness - i.e. goblins, hobgoblins and bugbears united under the dark one.

[Killer Angel]

From the stickyed thread:


The flag is very appropriate, red background for the red cloak green star for the standard goblins orange for the hobos, and brown for the bugbears, with the purple of the dark one over them all

[derfenrirwolv]

The "blue" on top is purple, which is the alleged color of the dark one when he was alive. Its above all the other goblins, because he's a god and they're all worshiping him

[Blas_de_Lezo]

I think it's very easy. The background is totally red because of the Crimson Mantle (see SoD) that Redcloaks wears, but also for the blood spilt in the process of conquering the nation.

The 3 stars represent the goblins, hobgoblins and bugbears that compose the nation.

And the purple star on top (supposed to be the sky) represents the Dark One. In SoD you can see that

The goblin warlord leader that later on becomes the Dark One has a different skin tone from all goblinoids: purple

[Mando Knight]

The "blue" on top is purple, which is the alleged color of the dark one when he was alive.

Eh, I wouldn't call it "alleged" if it's the exact color used for the Dark One in the color pages of SoD...

[Kurald Galain]

The Green, Orange, and Brown stars represent Goblins, Hobgoblins, and Bugbears.

And also, hobgoblins are displayed below the other two, because Redcloak doesn't (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0148.html) like (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0451.html) hobgoblins.

[FabuVinny]

I interpreted the importance of the hobgoblin star's position as being in the centre rather than lower, since the invaders and current occupants are primarily hobgoblin. After all, as of the second comic linked to there, Redcloak is over that grudge.

But on that logic green still comes first as the high priest is still a goblin.

[Tordek]

Thanks for the calrification on the color, I clearly need to adjust my monitor.

[Optimystik]

And also, hobgoblins are displayed below the other two, because Redcloak doesn't (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0148.html) like (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0451.html) hobgoblins.

Not anymore - the second strip you linked shows when his attitude towards them changed.

They are at the bottom star because they are the foundation of his city state - the largest population inhabiting Gobbotopia.

[Kurald Galain]

Not anymore - the second strip you linked shows when his attitude towards them changed.
I don't think it does. It shows that he has the divine duty to lead and protect them; that doesn't mean he has to like them. Spending a year surrounded with basically nothing but his childhood enemies doesn't necessarily bring out the best in Redcloak.

At the very least it's a potential for strife among the various gobboids.

[Morty]

Am I the only one who thought that the orange star being lower than the brown and green ones was purely an aesthetical choice?

[Draconi Redfir]

Am I the only one who thought that the orange star being lower than the brown and green ones was purely an aesthetical choice?

nope, im with you on that one.



and although unlikely, its possible the purple star also stands for the snarl/ the giant rift in the sky. though it standing for the dark one is still more probbible.

[Cizak]

I don't think it does. It shows that he has the divine duty to lead and protect them; that doesn't mean he has to like them. Spending a year surrounded with basically nothing but his childhood enemies doesn't necessarily bring out the best in Redcloak.

At the very least it's a potential for strife among the various gobboids.

Ever since Redcloak's "Change-of-heart-comic" he haven't ever said any mean thing to a hobgoblin ever again. He treats them now as he treated his fellow Goblins when he was surrounded by them (SoD). It's very clear that he sees them like equal goblinoids and likes them now.

[hamishspence]

He seems a bit more casual about Jirix's death, than about that of the hobgoblin who saved his life in the Battle for Azure City.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0662.html

That said, I'd say it is true that there hasn't been any obvious tension between him and hobgoblins, since that life-saving incident.

[Harry Tuttle]

There is a sub-race of goblins that are, you know, blue.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0546.html

I do think the general consensus here is correct, that it represents The Dark One, but other questions then arise ...

[Moff Chumley]

1) The Giant has a fairly limited selection of colors.
2) Therefore, if he had intended to have the blue star represent that race of goblins, it would've been the same shade.
3) Therefore...

[Kurald Galain]

He treats them now as he treated his fellow Goblins when he was surrounded by them (SoD).
Well, actually, he doesn't: the camaraderie he had with his brother, or his nephews, or that goblinette his brother introduced to him, is missing.

True, he doesn't send them onto the Path Of Huge Crushing Rocks any more for no reason, but neither has he given any indication of actually liking any of them.

[Optimystik]

I don't think it does. It shows that he has the divine duty to lead and protect them; that doesn't mean he has to like them. Spending a year surrounded with basically nothing but his childhood enemies doesn't necessarily bring out the best in Redcloak.

At the very least it's a potential for strife among the various gobboids.

If he doesn't like them, why is he confiding in Jirix? (Or offering to tell him stories about potted ferns.)

And "shepherd" has very fatherly connotations - I'll avoid making the biblical references, but trust me when I say he didn't choose that word by accident.

No, all evidence is that Redcloak has turned over a new leaf with regards to inter-goblin relations.

[Lucern]

I interpreted the orange star being lower than the other two so that it'd be roughly equidistant with the purple star as the other two stars. This way, all goblinoid races would appear equally close to the Dark One.

Of course, as far as aesthetic choice goes, 3 stars next to each other can be put a bit closer if one is lower than the other two. It's worth mentioning that the flag isn't flat on a table for us to compare the stars.

One final note, the flag could be red because of their love of red rover. :smallsmile:

[Cealocanth]

Annother way to interpret it is the inportance of the three colors from left to right, the way we read. Green is on the left because, obviously, it is redcloak's race. Then come the hobbos, still less important than regular gobbos by redcloak's standards, but more important than the bugbears, who have absolutely no effect on this comic whatsoever other than a small picture in shojo's speech.

[JoshuaZ]

Eh, I wouldn't call it "alleged" if it's the exact color used for the Dark One in the color pages of SoD...


We don't know how reliable that narrative as told by Redcloak to Xykon is. Indeed, we know that Redcloak actually lied at the end of that description. Moreover, Redcloak may not even have full information about what is going on, in that he apparently has no knowledge of the existence of another world within the Snarl rifts (as found by V's familiar). Nothing in that narrative is intrinsically reliable. Likely, but not trustworthy without separate confirmation.

[Shale]

Why does it have to be reliable? All we have to know is that's the story as Redcloak tells it, and Redcloak is probably the one who designed the flag.

[JoshuaZ]

Why does it have to be reliable? All we have to know is that's the story as Redcloak tells it, and Redcloak is probably the one who designed the flag.

Not the point. The point is while it is reasonable that that's what Redcloak believes (or what the standard theology is) and it is likely that is why the color is that, we can't be at all sure that that was the actual color of the Dark One.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Um, did the strip ever actually show bugbears?

[Athaniar]

Not that I know, but it is a reasonable assumption, given that they are one of the three "main" goblinoids and were mentioned along with the other two in the history book.

[Optimystik]

Um, did the strip ever actually show bugbears?

There is only one so far - in SoD, standing next to the Goblins, Hobgoblins and Kobolds in the "lesser races" creation part of the crayon segment.

They are yellow with a snazzy brown mop, which I/we think is what the brown star on the flag is referring to.

EDIT: I don't think a tiny snip will incense the Giant, but if any of the mods think differently, let me know and I'll remove this:

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s52/Optimystic8/SoD-Monsters.png

The one we're calling a "bugbear" is second from the right. As they are "Goblinoid" it makes sense that they would be on the flag.

[Nimrod's Son]

We don't know how reliable that narrative as told by Redcloak to Xykon is.
It doesn't matter. There's a picture of the Dark One on the DStP cast page and he has violet skin there too. The violet star represents the Dark One, end of story.

[Dr.Epic]

You're all wrong. It's nothing as complicated as goblin skin color. The colors Red Cloak suggested are his personal favorite colors.

[Draconi Redfir]

You're all wrong. It's nothing as complicated as goblin skin color. The colors Red Cloak suggested are his personal favorite colors.


nahh. obviusly he assigned twenty colors to diffrent numbers on some D20's. he then rolled them, and all but five D20's were either eaten, lost, distroyed, or fell down a drain. so he took those five D20's, and used the colors assigned to the rolled numbers to make a flag.

[Souhiro]

Naaaah

The red part is foreseeing that gobbotopia will be burned to ashes. the three stars (Goblin, Hobbo and Bugbear) are the TONS of Go-Ho-Bug that will die and burn with Gobbotopia.

The purple star is about we ONLY saw one or two female goblins, and TONS of male goblins. The purple is the gay pride color. Ho-Go-Bug-s have their instincts, but they lack of FEMALES!!!

[Nidhögg]

And also, hobgoblins are displayed below the other two, because Redcloak doesn't (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0148.html) like (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0451.html) hobgoblins.
It's also possible that since they are the center star, they are displayed a bit lower so that they all are on the same distance from the Dark One.
If they were on a straight line, it could be interpreted that hobgoblins are closer to the Dark One than goblins and bugbears.

[Snake-Aes]

He is creating a nation. He wants people to LIKE that nation. Whatever reason he had to position the stars like that, it's one that will please the goblinoids as a whole, and not some petty "boo i don't like orange" stuff.

Also, there's no reason to believe the purple star is anything other than the Dark One. Redcloak
1) Reveres the Dark One
2) Has a direct link to Him
3) Never specified in text the Dark One's color to Xykon
4) Likely decided what the flag would be like.

His goals towards goblin-kind were always to put them on *at least* the same level as PC races, and he's doing this under the Dark One's command since ever. The "all goblin kind together under the eyes of the Dark One" idea is probably the right one.

[Draconi Redfir]

i know of at least six goblin PC's, and am currently in posession of three bugbear PC's, with five more on the way.


all we need now is a group of hobgoblibn PC's, and true equality can begin.

[veti]

Of course, as far as aesthetic choice goes,

I'm sorry, I have difficulty parsing the word "aesthetic" in connection with that flag. I mean - euch. It's as bad as the name "Gobbotopia".

(If you look at a collection (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Flags_with_stars) of real-world flags with stars on, you'll note that at least they generally have the restraint to make the stars all the same colour.)

I think one thing that this strip is showing us is that the goblin races, as a whole, have never developed anything that we'd recognise as an aesthetic culture. Arts, poetry, drama - unknown to them. (Which makes sense. It takes a whole bunch of people with leisure time on their hands to support that kind of culture, and the goblins have never had that luxury until now.)

[Draconi Redfir]

I'm sorry, I have difficulty parsing the word "aesthetic" in connection with that flag. I mean - euch. It's as bad as the name "Gobbotopia".

(If you look at a collection (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Flags_with_stars) of real-world flags with stars on, you'll note that at least they generally have the restraint to make the stars all the same colour.)

I think one thing that this strip is showing us is that the goblin races, as a whole, have never developed anything that we'd recognise as an aesthetic culture. Arts, poetry, drama - unknown to them. (Which makes sense. It takes a whole bunch of people with leisure time on their hands to support that kind of culture, and the goblins have never had that luxury until now.)



hey, Redcloak is known for his intelligence. not his creaitivity.

flags can change, as can the names of nations. give it time, and one day the flag will look better, and the naition will have a better name.


although im fairly certen the word "Gobbotopia" is ment as saying "this is a Goblin utopia!"

[hamishspence]

He uses the word Utopia in SoD: something like:

"There's just one thing we need- a level playing field. If we have that and still fail to build utopia, we deserve whatever fate is heaped on us"