Americanisms in the comic

[rakkoon]

Someone said that a lot of the humor in the comic is directed at an American audience and that a lot of the jokes are not immediately understandable for foreigners. Being a foreigner can you give examples of this?

One I can think of myself was the Football mascot references. That took some explaining :smallsmile:

Any others?

[Jagos]

The blood splattered banner:

O say can you see
In the darkness of night

Who so proudly we killed
at the twilights last gleaming?

[TriForce]

The blood splattered banner:

O say can you see
In the darkness of night

Who so proudly we killed
at the twilights last gleaming?

actually, that would be appropriate for the american version too :P

[gosh]

Yeah, today's "Blood-Spattered Banner" is a direct parody to the American national anthem, the Star-Spangled Banner. The jokes regarding planes a couple strips ago might also be harder to understand.

[rakkoon]

Planes? Please elaborate (and FABULOUS SIG btw)

[Ellye]

I only understood the joke about Football thanks to those forum.
Only one on top of my mind, unless I missed one completely.

[Ancalagon]

The blood splattered banner:

Come on, that's common knowledge even for europeans. Some basic education should allow you to understand that.

[rakkoon]

I literally know more words of the American anthem then my own :smallsmile:
so I got that one. Planes ... 9/11 was in the comic?

[Vargtass]

Planes? Please elaborate (and FABULOUS SIG btw)

The planes (and associated security checks) are referenced here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0699.html), by the MitD. However, I would not call that an Americanism per se, as security checks on boarding planes are quite commonplace in many countries, although they are slightly stricter when going to USA. So, no direct cultural bias needed to understand that one, just experience of international air travel.

[rakkoon]

So that was the thing about the shoes? Though agreed, that wasn't typically American, more me being dense :smallbiggrin:

[Kol Korran]

in many airplane security checks the passanger must take off his shoes (especially if they contain metal), they are then usually checked for hidden compartments and so on.

this comes from a case of a terrorist who had some explosive in his sole, who tried to explode a plane (and for those who know how, you really don't need much at those altitudes). he was caught at the last minute, but people try to learn from that mistake and be wary before hand.

the joke comes from the reference to Planes in the D&D sense in oppose to the real life sense.
i hope this helped,
Kol.

[rakkoon]

Okaay, explosives? In his shoes?

That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about, keep it coming!

[Nimrod's Son]

When Grubwiggler says "Roker shall live to see another sunrise" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0576.html), he's talking about American weatherman Al Roker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Roker).

[Morthis]

Come on, that's common knowledge even for europeans. Some basic education should allow you to understand that.

Really? For people who watch a lot of TV in Europe, probably, but I certainly never learned that in HS in Europe. Honestly, can you tell me the Anthem of any European nation without googling it?

Anyway, I can't recall how well known this is to people outside of America, I've lived here too long now to remember my previous perceptions. The national bird mentioned for Gobbotopia is a turkey. Now while living in Europe, I never heard much about turkey. In fact, I don't think I ever ate turkey until I moved to America. Meanwhile, in America turkey is pretty popular. For many different chicken meals you find, there's some sort of turkey alternative. Then there's Thanksgiving, a day during which most families in America (that celebrate it) will probably eat turkey.

I think the little history on Gobbotopia is a play at America as well. I don't know if I'm seeing things that aren't there, but I saw a bunch of parallel's there.

Gobbotopia is founded under the Dark One (America founded under Christianity, even if it's not a state religion, it still has deep roots in America).

Gob is the most powerful, influential, and most interesting nation ever. I realize many citizens of different countries tend to think they live in the best country, but this is a stereotype as well (that Americans think their country is better than that of everybody else). I would say the first two (most powerful/influential) are pretty much true for America, the last one can be debated to death.

The foundation of Gob makes absolutely no mention of the bloody slaughter that lead up to it's foundation. Probably somewhat drawing a comparison to the founding of America and the Native Americans. Granted we haven't written it out of the history books, some people tend to overlook it happened entirely.

Gob is primarily made up of 3 races, which make up like 93% of it's population, but it's open to other races. Again, America is primarily non-hispanic whites, hispanic/latino, and african americans. Those 3 also make up somewhere around 93% of the population, but we're open to different cultures and are often called a melting pot.

[Kidmm]

There's also the Junior Prom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prom) reference here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0554.html), which as cultural institutions go is more or less confined to the US and Canada. In any case, I seem to recall that it required a bit of explanation for our friends abroad.

[Nimrod's Son]

Now while living in Europe, I never heard much about turkey. In fact, I don't think I ever ate turkey until I moved to America. Meanwhile, in America turkey is pretty popular.
Turkey is eaten at Christmas by the vast majority of the UK, too. Goose was traditionally the Christmas main course, once upon a time, but it's been gradually phased out by, probably due to the American influence.

[Morthis]

Okaay, explosives? In his shoes?

That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about, keep it coming!

Yeah, that was Richard Reid, also called the shoebomber (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoebomber). With the fear of more terrorist attacks, airport security has been getting more and more strict. Most airports in Europe will do the normal metal detector and scanning your carry on thing, but these days in America you also need to take off your shoes and send them through the scanner and there are strict limitations on the amount of liquid you can carry with you. Many people believe these precautions don't really work and it's become the topic for many jokes.

[Conuly]

Honestly, can you tell me the Anthem of any European nation without googling it?

Sure!

England: God Save the Queen
France: La Marseillaise
Belgian: The Brabançonne (I did google this, because I don't know how to type that c)

And, bonus:

Walloon (not an independent nation, of course): Le Chant des Wallons

[rakkoon]

Turkeys, Pilgrim fathers and Prom dates are prevalent in all the American series, from Step by Step, to Family Matters and even Buffy TVS. Like I said, I hear the word to the American anthem at least once a month in a movie or a series.
The French or Belgian anthems ... not so much :smallsmile:

Al Roker was in none of these however :smallsmile:
Just glanced over it in the comic, cool.

[Belkster11]

Really? For people who watch a lot of TV in Europe, probably, but I certainly never learned that in HS in Europe. Honestly, can you tell me the Anthem of any European nation without googling it?

Anyway, I can't recall how well known this is to people outside of America, I've lived here too long now to remember my previous perceptions. The national bird mentioned for Gobbotopia is a turkey. Now while living in Europe, I never heard much about turkey. In fact, I don't think I ever ate turkey until I moved to America. Meanwhile, in America turkey is pretty popular. For many different chicken meals you find, there's some sort of turkey alternative. Then there's Thanksgiving, a day during which most families in America (that celebrate it) will probably eat turkey.

Interestingly enough, Benjamin Franklin suggested that the turkey be the national mascot. The other founders promptly went "wtf, Ben?" and made the bald eagle the mascot.

And no, I didn't expect people to know what the "blood splattered banner" was referencing to. I don't know the French national anthenem, so I wouldn't be upset if people don't know my country's. :) (I don't know the words for the other national anthenems, like God Save the Queen, for example.)

<--- American.

[Morthis]

Sure!

England: God Save the Queen
France: La Marseillaise
Belgian: The Brabançonne (I did google this, because I don't know how to type that c)

And, bonus:

Walloon (not an independent nation, of course): Le Chant des Wallons

Are you European and possibly Belgian? Because if you're American you're like one of three Americans I've ran into that even know Belgium is a country in Europe, and I've never met one that knew the country is split into a Flemish and Walloon part (I'm not saying they should have known, just that they didn't). :smallconfused:

[Belkster11]

Are you European and possibly Belgian? Because if you're American you're like one of three Americans I've ran into that even know Belgium is a country in Europe, and I've never met one that knew the country is split into a Flemish and Walloon part (I'm not saying they should have known, just that they didn't). :smallconfused:

I know Belgium is a country. It's called looking at a map. ;)

I didn't know it was split into a Flemish and Walloon. That's interesting. As a history buff, I must ask you to explain why that happened. :)

[i6uuaq]

I know Belgium is a country. It's called looking at a map. ;)

I didn't know it was split into a Flemish and Walloon. That's interesting. As a history buff, I must ask you to explain why that happened. :)

hehe. I'm not American, but I didn't know that either. I doubt too many people outside of Western Europe know that one. :P

I do know the American anthem off by heart, 'cos I quite like the lyrics. And also the fact that 75% of Americans can't reach all the notes properly.


edit: I meant I didn't know about the flemish and walloon part. That Belgium is a country is somewhat more common knowledge. :P

[Vargtass]

I know Belgium is a country. It's called looking at a map. ;)

I didn't know it was split into a Flemish and Walloon. That's interesting. As a history buff, I must ask you to explain why that happened. :)

Don't forget the little known German part...

[Nimrod's Son]

I don't know the French national anthenem, so I wouldn't be upset if people don't know my country's.
American culture is a great deal more ubiquitous than French though. :smallwink:

[Morthis]

I know Belgium is a country. It's called looking at a map. ;)

I didn't know it was split into a Flemish and Walloon. That's interesting. As a history buff, I must ask you to explain why that happened. :)

Oh geesh it's been so long lol.

This is going by memory so I could be pretty wrong. We were part of the Netherlands at first. After Napoleon was defeated, the Netherlands kept part of France as a buffer between the Netherlands and France. Now you have the southern part of Netherlands, the part that connects to France, speaking half French, half Dutch. The French part resented being part of the Netherlands since the rest of the country was Dutch, the Dutch part did not want to be part of the Netherlands either due to a difference in religion. We ended up declaring independence, the Netherlands wouldn't have it, but France backed us up and Belgium gained it's independence in 1831.

There's more to it than that, but I don't remember all the details. After Belgium gained independence, because of it's previous Dutch "oppressors", the French part of Belgium was the ruling body and the Flemish part had little say. As I recall, French was forced on the Flemish part (making it the mandatory language in school and things like that) until that boiled over as well and some sort of equilibrium was reached. Belgium technically consists of 3 parts, the North part, which is Flemish (which is essentially Dutch, in the same way American English is very similar to UK English), the South part (Walloon, which is French), and Brussels, the capital which is bi-lingual. We also have a small German part near the German border that became part of Belgium after one of the world wars, I can't remember which one.

Anyway, this is going very very OT. My point before was just, I am from Belgium, I live in America, and most Americans I've ran into don't know what Belgium is, or where it is. I'm not saying they're dumb for not knowing, I'm just saying you shouldn't assume people automatically know everything about another country (like the national anthem thing mentioned before). Most American stuff that people might know will not come from high school, European high school history/geography/etc focuses primarily on Europe (heck with as many countries as Europe has that's plenty to confuse anyone lol), it would probably come from popular American TV shows. Somebody who does not watch those shows might not know, and that does not make them uneducated.

[WalkingTarget]

The national bird mentioned for Gobbotopia is a turkey.

No it isn't. The national bird mentioned for Gobbotopia is the turkey vulture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey_Vulture). Different bird entirely even if it is another American species (this one makes more sense than a turkey for an Evil country).

[Morthis]

No it isn't. The national bird mentioned for Gobbotopia is the turkey vulture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey_Vulture). Different bird entirely even if it is another American species (this one makes more sense than a turkey for an Evil country).

I'm well aware of what is written in the comic, although I didn't know a turkey vulture actually existed. I thought the vulture was just added at the end to make it more evil and fitting of an evil nation. :smalltongue:

[WalkingTarget]

Well, now you know, and knowing is half th- *tackled by lawyers*

[Conuly]

Belgian-American, yes :) And when you ARE Belgian-American you're constantly realizing that random people you bump into on the street (live down the block from, sit next to on the plane, hire you, date your sister...) are also Belgian-Americans. It's like this weird little social club that NOBODY KNOWS ABOUT.

As for why Belgium has two main ethnic groups, the question isn't why it's divided into two parts (and yes, the Germans) but why those two groups came together to make Belgium, and how much longer that'll last.

Incidentally, until the beginning of the last century, the Walloons weren't largely French-speaking. They spoke Walloon, a related but totally separate language.

[Ancalagon]

Really? For people who watch a lot of TV in Europe, probably, but I certainly never learned that in HS in Europe. Honestly, can you tell me the Anthem of any European nation without googling it? [...]

I'm not from america. Actually, knowing the US anthem explains quite a lot. And I have no idea what you mean with HS. Home schooling? High school?
Anyway... like 80% of the things you should know are not learned in school.
At least having heard of the US anthem is among those things you might have heard about. As it the turkey-for-thanksgiving-thing. Or that the US have a two-party-system and like football and baseball, two kinds of sports that are basically unkown outside of the US, how they elect a president might also be interesting... etc.

[martinkou]

Someone said that a lot of the humor in the comic is directed at an American audience and that a lot of the jokes are not immediately understandable for foreigners. Being a foreigner can you give examples of this?

One I can think of myself was the Football mascot references. That took some explaining :smallsmile:

Any others?

The way the Goblinoid flag is designed and interpreted is very similar to China's. But OTOH I guess there's many other countries with the same kind of flag design and interpretation. One thing that's sure - it's not the US's design.

So at least there's something that's not US.

Also.. I think most non-US readers would understand the lyrics is parodying US's national anthem anyway. Even outside of the US, you can still hear the US's anthem a lot on the TV. e.g. during the Olympics. And I have some blurry memories of KFC advertisements playing the Star Spangled Banner music.

[Gwynfrid]

I think most non-US readers would understand the lyrics is parodying US's national anthem anyway. Even outside of the US, you can still hear the US's anthem a lot on the TV. e.g. during the Olympics.

You can hear the tune fairly often (those American athletes usually win tons of medals), but much less so the lyrics. And if you do hear the lyrics you don't necessarily understand them, unless you have English as a first language.

Anyway, while I knew that the US anthem is the Star-Splangled Banner, I still didn't get the reference until I went to the forum and googled the (real) lyrics.

[SoC175]

Come on, that's common knowledge even for europeans. Some basic education should allow you to understand that. Well, how many european anthem does the typical US-citizen recognize, and only by reading the lyrics, without the actual melody?

[dps]

baseball... ... basically unkown outside of the US

Millions of East Asians and Latin Americans would disagree with that statement. :smallbiggrin:

[fwiffo]

At the time #329 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0329.html) came out, a bunch of furrin folks were wondering why "the halfling shouldn't bother funding his IRA". Especially those who didn't quite see him as sympathizer of Irish Republican Army.

[SoC175]

Millions of East Asians and Latin Americans would disagree with that statement. :smallbiggrin: While the rest of the world is too busy playing soccer to bother to agree :smallbiggrin:

[Asta Kask]

While the rest of the world is too busy playing soccer to bother to agree :smallbiggrin:

Soccer? What is soccer?

We play football. :smallbiggrin:

[Jolly Steve]

And no, I didn't expect people to know what the "blood splattered banner" was referencing to. I don't know the French national anthenem, so I wouldn't be upset if people don't know my country's. :) (I don't know the words for the other national anthenems, like God Save the Queen, for example.)

The French national anthem sounds like it was written by goblins anyway:

Come, children of the Fatherland,
The day of glory has arrived!
Against us, tyranny's
Bloody banner is raised, (repeat)

Do you hear in the countryside
Those ferocious soldiers roaring?
They come up to our arms
To slit the throats of our sons and wives!

To arms, citizens,
Form your battalions,
Let's march, let's march!
May an impure blood
Water our furrows!

What does this horde of slaves,
Of traitors and conjured kings want?
For whom are these ignoble trammels,
These long-prepared irons? (repeat)
Frenchmen, for us, ah! What outrage
What fury it must arouse!
It is we whom they dare plan
To return to ancient slavery!

To arms, citizens...

What! Foreign cohorts
Would make law in our homes!
What! These mercenary phalanxes
Would strike down our proud warriors! (repeat)
Great God ! By chained hands
Our heads would bow under the yoke
Vile despots would become
The masters of our destinies!

To arms, citizens...

Tremble, tyrants and you traitors
The shame of all parties,
Tremble! Your parricidal schemes
Will finally receive their prizes! (repeat)
Everyone is a soldier to combat you
If they fall, our young heroes,
The earth produces new ones,
Against you, all ready to fight!

To arms, citizens...

Frenchmen, as magnanimous warriors,
Bear or hold back your blows!
Spare these sorry victims,
Arming against us with regrets. (repeat)

But these bloodthirsty despots,
But these accomplices of Bouillé,
All these tigers who, mercilessly,
Rip their mother's breast!

To arms, citizens...

Sacred love of the Fatherland,
Lead, support our avenging arms
Liberty, cherished Liberty,
Fight with thy defenders! (repeat)

Under our flags, victory shall
Hurry to thy manly accents,
Thy expiring enemies shall,
See thy triumph and our glory!

To arms, citizens...

(Children's Verse)
We shall enter in the (military) career
When our elders are no longer there,
There we shall find their dust
And the trace of their virtues (repeat)

Much less jealous to survive them
Than to share their coffins,
We shall have the sublime pride
Of avenging or following them

To arms, citizens...

[WalkingTarget]

Soccer? What is soccer?

We play football. :smallbiggrin:

It's a word made up by some silly British people (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_%22-er%22#Rugger.2C_footer_and_soccer) to help distinguish between two games with the same name. A variant of the other one just became more popular in America and so got the generic name there. :smalltongue:

[Ancalagon]

Well, how many european anthem does the typical US-citizen recognize, and only by reading the lyrics, without the actual melody?

I think it's an asymmetrical comparison. The US is a quite dominant country, basically an entire continent. The policy if often of world-significance (culture (MOVIES! TV!) and politics). So any intelligent and aware person who reads/watches news once in a while can know quite some stuff about their culture, no?

About the topic: yes, I think that the US-anthem-text is something that every politically interested and english speaking person might recognise.

[Kieran Cage]

Okay, I'm placing the over/under on how many posts until this thread devolves into blatant Americanism vs. Anti-Americanism personal attacks and flamewars resulting in threadlock at...let's see, I'll go with... 85 posts.

Let the Greysky City bookies know; I'm sure they'll want some of this action.

[SoC175]

So any intelligent and aware person who reads/watches news once in a while can know quite some stuff about their culture, no? The melody, likely. The lyrics, rather unlikely I would say.

As far as recognizing european anthems go, I think that with the melody many americans could recognize france (as the first few notes are often heard when france appears for whatever reason in american movies), but just from the lyrics I also don't think that many would be able to recognize it.

[WalkingTarget]

The melody, likely. The lyrics, rather unlikely I would say.

As far as recognizing european anthems go, I think that with the melody many americans could recognize france (as the first few notes are often heard when france appears for whatever reason in american movies), but just from the lyrics I also don't think that many would be able to recognize it.

Yeah, I know the tune of that one, but other than seeing that the lyrics are in French I wouldn't have much of a clue (I haven't seen Casablanca enough to internalize the words when they start singing it to drown out the Germans at one point - that's about the only place I think I've actually heard somebody singing it).

I know the beginning lyrics/tune to the German anthem and at least recognize the old lyrics to the USSR one (I think the current Russian one is the same tune, and it's pretty easy to spot as the opening lines start with "Russia" - or "Россия" if you want to be technical, but I'd recognize it anyway). Really any of them that include the country's name in the first few lines kind of makes it easy (like Germany and Russia for example).

[Optimystik]

It's a word made up by some silly British people (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_%22-er%22#Rugger.2C_footer_and_soccer) to help distinguish between two games with the same name. A variant of the other one just became more popular in America and so got the generic name there. :smalltongue:

And in OotS as well - Young Roy plays "Soccer" in SoD.

[Nimrod's Son]

Really? For people who watch a lot of TV in Europe, probably, but I certainly never learned that in HS in Europe. Honestly, can you tell me the Anthem of any European nation without googling it?
Jimi Hendrix's (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2bGUeDnqPY) live instrumental version of "The Star Spangled Banner" is considered one of the defining moments in rock music history. And international sporting events usually start with the participants' national anthems, so anyone who's seen many of those will likely have at least a passing familiarity with several foreign countries' anthems.


I'm not saying they're dumb for not knowing, I'm just saying you shouldn't assume people automatically know everything about another country (like the national anthem thing mentioned before). Most American stuff that people might know will not come from high school, European high school history/geography/etc focuses primarily on Europe (heck with as many countries as Europe has that's plenty to confuse anyone lol), it would probably come from popular American TV shows. Somebody who does not watch those shows might not know, and that does not make them uneducated.
While I certainly wouldn't consider someone from the developed world to be uneducated for not recognising the American national anthem, I would consider them to have been living under a rock. :smallwink:

[Gwynfrid]

The French national anthem sounds like it was written by goblins anyway

I understand the feeling behind the gibe, but it still hurts just a little. :smallamused:

It was actually written by a patriot during a revolution coupled with a war... So there might be some degree of resemblance with Redcloak's mindset.

[Asta Kask]

I understand the feeling behind the gibe, but it still hurts just a little. :smallamused:

It was actually written by a patriot during a revolution coupled with a war... So there might be some degree of resemblance with Redcloak's mindset.

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country should leave us no more!
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

Well, at least there's no overburdened patriotism in the Star-Spangled Banner. *cough* :smallsmile:

And before anyone says it, the Swedish is just confusing.

"I know that you are, and will remain, what you were"

I'll have what he's smoking.

[FlawedParadigm]

Jimi Hendrix's (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2bGUeDnqPY) live instrumental version of "The Star Spangled Banner" is considered one of the defining moments in rock music history. And international sporting events usually start with the participants' national anthems, so anyone who's seen many of those will likely have at least a passing familiarity with several foreign countries' anthems.


While I certainly wouldn't consider someone from the developed world to be uneducated for not recognising the American national anthem, I would consider them to have been living under a rock. :smallwink:

Being fair, almost everything Jimi ever did is considered one of the defining moments in rock music history, so it's rather easy to lose track rapidly of which was which.

[TheBlackShadow]

Sure!

England: God Save the Queen
France: La Marseillaise
Belgian: The Brabançonne (I did google this, because I don't know how to type that c)

And, bonus:

Walloon (not an independent nation, of course): Le Chant des Wallons

Ahem. God Save The Queen is the national anthem of BRITAIN, thank you very much. Seriously, why do people say England when they mean Britain? Its not like everyone goes around saying "Prussia" when they mean Germany...

:annoyed:

[Ancalagon]

Ahem. God Save The Queen is the national anthem of BRITAIN, thank you very much. Seriously, why do people say England when they mean Britain? Its not like everyone goes around saying "Prussia" when they mean Germany...

:annoyed:

No, the mistake is to say Germany when they mean the "Kingdom of Bavaria". Or at least they talk about Lederhosen and Oktoberfest. ;)

[Asta Kask]

Ahem. God Save The Queen is the national anthem of BRITAIN, thank you very much. Seriously, why do people say England when they mean Britain? Its not like everyone goes around saying "Prussia" when they mean Germany...

:annoyed:

Errr... Wales has its own anthem (Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau - and no, I don't have a clue how to pronounce that), so what are you complaining about? Didn't you guys fight a war or two to avoid being part of the UK? I seem to remember a kerfuffle involving a chap named Owain Glyndŵr. :smallsmile:

[goodyarn]

There's also a lot of American pop culture references, which may be known outside the U.S. Some examples are the Serfway restaurant (parodying Subway) that Celia went to in strip #532, the Spider-Man reference in #558 and the X-Men reference in #560. Just going down the names of the last 100strips, I can see #681: "All in the Family (TV Show), #662: "The Price Is Right" (TV Show), #639: "If They Pull a Knife..." (Line from the movie "The Untouchables"), #626 "Good the Last Drip" (variant on TV coffee slogan "Good to the Last Drop"), #613 "I Need a Hero" (Song),

[Ancalagon]

Didn't you guys fight a war or two to avoid being part of the UK?

Warming up old stories from the 1280s when Wales fell under the control of the english, yes? ;)

[TheBlackShadow]

Errr... Wales has its own anthem (Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau - and no, I don't have a clue how to pronounce that), so what are you complaining about? Didn't you guys fight a war or two to avoid being part of the UK? I seem to remember a kerfuffle involving a chap named Owain Glyndŵr. :smallsmile:

I never mentioned anything about Wales, I just pointed out that God Save The Queen is not exclusive to England, it applies to the entire UK. And the stuff with Owain Glyndwr is, quite literally, ancient history now, and actually has very little bearing on anything, in real terms.

[Ancalagon]

There's also a lot of American pop culture references, which may be known outside the U.S. Some examples are the Serfway restaurant (parodying Subway) that Celia went to in strip #532, the Spider-Man reference in #558 and the X-Men reference in #560. Just going down the names of the last 100strips, I can see #681: "All in the Family (TV Show), #662: "The Price Is Right" (TV Show), #639: "If They Pull a Knife..." (Line from the movie "The Untouchables"), #626 "Good the Last Drip" (variant on TV coffee slogan "Good to the Last Drop"), #613 "I Need a Hero" (Song),

Most of those are known outside of the US. As I said quite important in regards to "culture". Anything that's not "mass media and famous shows, songs, movies" might be less known.

Good candidates that are probably not understood in the rest of the world are TV shows (besides major series), comedians, sports-references (and stuff around them), non-first-line politicians (governers besides The Terminator etc), current debates in society about laws or scandals. Also TV-stuff from "your childhood" (80s or so) might be less known to todays youth in the world (we also know ALF).

Everything that has to do with Hollywood or famous singers (besides country, no one outside of the US cares about country) are probably "here" as well known as "there".

[Vargtass]

And before anyone says it, the Swedish is just confusing.

"I know that you are, and will remain, what you were"

I'll have what he's smoking.

I humbly disagree. The Swedish anthem (actually a pan-Scandinavian lyric) adequately captures the mood of when it was written (romantic nordic nostalgia and grandeur). In the context of the rest of the lyrics, the quoted line makes perfect sense. Now, the third stanza of the King's Song (the Royal Anthem of Sweden), on the other hand, would be closer to the spirit of La Marseillaisse or The Star-spangled banner...

Rapid free translation:
And should our downfall arrive some day
take away the purple from your shoulders
remove the burden of the crown
and don the dear old colours
the ancient yellow and the blue
and with a sword in your hand go
to battle and ruinous end.

... obviously speaking of the King.

The fourth stanza is weirder still...

[Asta Kask]

I never mentioned anything about Wales, I just pointed out that God Save The Queen is not exclusive to England, it applies to the entire UK.

OK, the reason that people think it is the national anthem of England is that the England football team sings it at international events. The Welsh have their own, and the Scottish apparently sing Flower of Scotland or Scotland the Brave. What the North-Irish sing, I don't know (although I've heard a rumor that the Irish anthem contains words to the effect of "Let's kill all Englishmen.")

[TheBlackShadow]

OK, the reason that people think it is the national anthem of England is that the England football team sings it at international events. The Welsh have their own, and the Scottish apparently sing Flower of Scotland or Scotland the Brave. What the North-Irish sing, I don't know (although I've heard a rumor that the Irish anthem contains words to the effect of "Let's kill all Englishmen.")

All the devolved countries of the UK have their own anthem, God Save The Queen just applies to the UK as well. For instance, in many sports such as football or rugby (a lot like American Football, only without armour, for those who haven't heard of it) there is no comprehensive British team, you have a team each for England, Ireland, Scotland, and Wales, and everyone uses their own anthem, but in some instances (like the Olympics) there is a GB team, and in such a case God Save The Queen is used.

[Asta Kask]

All the devolved countries of the UK have their own anthem, God Save The Queen just applies to the UK as well. For instance, in many sports such as football or rugby (a lot like American Football, only without armour, for those who haven't heard of it) there is no comprehensive British team, you have a team each for England, Ireland, Scotland, and Wales, and everyone uses their own anthem, but in some instances (like the Olympics) there is a GB team, and in such a case God Save The Queen is used.

OK, that's not what wikipedia says. OTOH, "he who trusts wikipedia is a fool indeed." According to Wiki, Wales has its own anthem, but England and Scotland do not (and I haven't checked North Ireland). But you're probably right.

Anyway, this isn't related to americanisms in the comic, so we should probably shut our mouths... :smallwink:

[derfenrirwolv]

Well, i think most americans would recognize the TUNES of the English and french national anthems, but i can't recall ever hearing the words to either.

[Asta Kask]

Well, i think most americans would recognize the TUNES of the English and french national anthems, but i can't recall ever hearing the words to either.

You are so worth a cookie.

*gives cookie*

[TheBlackShadow]

I cast Epic Disintegration on the cookie.

[WalkingTarget]

Seriously, why do people say England when they mean Britain?

Because the high points of British history we get over here are the Battle of Hastings, Henry VIII and his wives, Shakespeare, the whole American Colonization/Rebellion thing, and WWII.

I'm exaggerating a bit, but there's probably a pretty good segment of the population over here that couldn't tell you what exactly is different between the terms England, United Kingdom, and Great Britain. Wales is probably off the radar completely other than, maybe, that Charles is the Prince of it. Sad, I know.

[TheBlackShadow]

Because the high points of British history we get over here are the Battle of Hastings, Henry VIII and his wives, Shakespeare, the whole American Colonization/Rebellion thing, and WWII.

I'm exaggerating a bit, but there's probably a pretty good segment of the population over here that couldn't tell you what exactly is different between the terms England, United Kingdom, and Great Britain. Wales is probably off the radar completely other than, maybe, that Charles is the Prince of it. Sad, I know.

I don't just mean ignoring Wales, we're pretty small, so I can understand that, but the UK (as opposed to just "England") has been around for about 250 years, IIRC, so I can't understand why people keep saying England instead of Britain or the UK. Like I said, no-one goes around calling Germany "Prussia".

[Bavarian itP]

I don't just mean ignoring Wales, we're pretty small, so I can understand that, but the UK (as opposed to just "England") has been around for about 250 years, IIRC, so I can't understand why people keep saying England instead of Britain or the UK. Like I said, no-one goes around calling Germany "Prussia".

England still exists, Prussia doesn't.

[Belkster11]

Because the high points of British history we get over here are the Battle of Hastings, Henry VIII and his wives, Shakespeare, the whole American Colonization/Rebellion thing, and WWII.

I'm exaggerating a bit, but there's probably a pretty good segment of the population over here that couldn't tell you what exactly is different between the terms England, United Kingdom, and Great Britain. Wales is probably off the radar completely other than, maybe, that Charles is the Prince of it. Sad, I know.

Don't forget:

1) Medieval age in England
2) Reniassance in England
3) Elizabeth I and the Spanish Armada
4) WWI (Lusitania, anyone?)
5) War of 1812 (Where Great Britain tried to reconquer her lost colonies, at least that's what I was taught back in grade school.)
6) King John and the Signing of the Magna Carta
7) Plymouth Landing

Other than this and what you listed, yeah, you're right.

[TriForce]

The French national anthem sounds like it was written by goblins anyway:


the dutch one also isnt really appreciated (at least not by most dutch people i know) since its all about germany and spain :P

[Gwynfrid]

I don't just mean ignoring Wales, we're pretty small, so I can understand that, but the UK (as opposed to just "England") has been around for about 250 years, IIRC, so I can't understand why people keep saying England instead of Britain or the UK. Like I said, no-one goes around calling Germany "Prussia".

Sorry about that. In France, we also say "Angleterre". "Grande-Bretagne" is much more formal and seldom used in ordinary discussion. "Royaume-Uni" is pretty much reserved for geography books.

A possible reason is that England, as a term and as a major power, started being known long before the UK was formed. In contrast, Germany was already a large kindgom 10 centuries ago.

[Scarlet Knight]

Well, i think most americans would recognize the TUNES of the English and french national anthems, but i can't recall ever hearing the words to either.

Bingo! Many Americans know the words to "O Canada" only because of the repetition of hockey games, but I can only hum the Italian national anthem from the few soccer matches I've seen.

As an American, I'm not sure how much reaches the rest of the world. For example, the title of #505: " Or we will all stick seperately". It's a play on Benjamin Franklin's quote: " We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."

Franklin was American , but just as we learn quotes from non-Americans ...I assume it's a two-way street.

[TheBlackShadow]

@Belkster11

Huh. Most people over here barely know there was a war in 1812, and I'm fairly certain that retaking the colonies was never a factor. The Americans were uppity because we were placing certain restrictions on their shipping to make sure they weren't helping Napoleon (Napoleon was the Big Issue at the time), though another reason thrown about is that America was planning to invade Canada, though that idea doesn't have much going for it. Overall, Napoleon was the issue, like I said, and the war ended with his defeat in 1814, as neither side had a reason to keep fighting any more.

Also, we should probably get back to the topic. This is beginning to skirt a little close to real-world politics, and I don't think they'll let us discuss stuff like that.

[Scarlet Knight]

Don't forget:

6) King John and the Signing of the Magna Carta



I don't believe that I'm too far wrong if I said more Americans know John as the bad guy from Robin Hood rather than from the Magna Carta.

[Meg]

do know the American anthem off by heart, 'cos I quite like the lyrics. And also the fact that 75% of Americans can't reach all the notes properly.


Well, the reason none of us (I'm American, btw) can hit the notes is because The Star Spangled Banner is to the tune of an old drinking song that was intentionally difficult to sing. Basically the guy who wrote it did so with the meter of that song in mind, but with no intention to sing it. He then showed his drinking buddies, who decided to sing it anyway.

What's worse is that practically nobody knows the words to it.

[Scarlet Knight]

Back to topic: In #600 , Roy receives a dish he calls "Mom- balaya". "Jambalaya" is a dish associated with Louisiana in the US.
:smallsmile:

[WalkingTarget]

I don't just mean ignoring Wales, we're pretty small, so I can understand that, but the UK (as opposed to just "England") has been around for about 250 years, IIRC, so I can't understand why people keep saying England instead of Britain or the UK. Like I said, no-one goes around calling Germany "Prussia".

I'd thought about leaving the Wales part off, it was subsidiary to my point. It just isn't stressed what the difference is over here. Shakespeare - English, London - in England, Language - English. England is the "important" part, obviously. Sure, the other parts have their own history, but other than the bagpipes, kilts, and haggis everybody's integrated into the predominant English culture by now aren't they? [/CluelessAmericanStereotype]

At the same time, there isn't much taught at all about Prussia; a lot of people would probably assume it was part of Russia if you asked them. Germany was born fully formed from the forehead of Zeus as far as the general history classes I had growing up were concerned (there was the Holy Roman Empire, now there's Germany, the interim kinda got glossed over).

[Hurkyl]

What's worse is that practically nobody knows the words to it.
I can one-up that -- I bet many don't know that there is a second verse! (and a third and fourth)

[Gwynfrid]

As an American, I'm not sure how much reaches the rest of the world. For example, the title of #505: " Or we will all stick seperately". It's a play on Benjamin Franklin's quote: " We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."

Franklin was American , but just as we learn quotes from non-Americans ...I assume it's a two-way street.


Back to topic: In #600 , Roy receives a dish he calls "Mom- balaya". "Jambalaya" is a dish associated with Louisiana in the US.
:smallsmile:

Not only these two points are on topic, but both are discoveries for me as a non-American. Thanks.

I wonder how many such references I have missed. Probably hundreds. But I love the comic anyway, which says a lot about how good it is.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

At the time #329 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0329.html) came out, a bunch of furrin folks were wondering why "the halfling shouldn't bother funding his IRA". Especially those who didn't quite see him as sympathizer of Irish Republican Army.

I saw that and thought "Oh, the Good Friday Agreement is holding in the Stickverse." and then immediately thought "Or it's his Individual Retirement Account..."

Also, the "Ode to Joy" (Beethoven's 9th Symphony, 4th Movement) has been adopted as the European...umm...(Pan?)National Anthem.

Incidentally, the full title of the UK is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. So to refer to the conglomeration of Scotland, England, and Wales is at least geographically accurate (they being the constituent states of said United Kingdom which reside on the island of 'Britain') and I think would be acceptable in a vernacular sense.

Further (and don't I ramble on?):
...What the North-Irish sing, I don't know (although I've heard a rumor that the Irish anthem contains words to the effect of "Let's kill all Englishmen.")

Unless one is willing to accept the English as (the historical) "despot" which 'Erin shall no longer shelter' from "Amhrán na bhFiann" ("The Soldier's Song", National Anthem of the Republic of Ireland) then no, it doesn't say anything to the effect of "Let's kill all Englishmen." And even if one does, it only says something to the effect of "Let's drive all of those Englishmen off of Ireland, perhaps violently." I'm not really sure what is sung in Northern Ireland (other than "God Save the Queen" by some) but when Pan-Irish sports teams play, "Ireland's Call" is typically played. It was composed specifically to avoid the political brouhaha surrounding other tunes, if I remember correctly.

Finally (I promise!), many people know the complete lyrics to "The Star Spangled Banner" and are more than capable of singing it. They just tend to be choristers!

[The Glyphstone]

Interesting but tangentially, one of my current suitemates is quite insistent that he is English, not British.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

Interesting but tangentially, one of my current suitemates is quite insistent that he is English, not British.

Technically, he'd be both wouldn't he.

[Vargtass]

"Royaume-Uni" is pretty much reserved for geography books.

... and Eurovision Song Contest!



Also, the "Ode to Joy" (Beethoven's 9th Symphony, 4th Movement) has been adopted as the European...umm...(Pan?)National Anthem.


Nitpick: It is the adopted as the anthem of the European Union, not Europe. Not all countries of Europe is part of the union...

[BRC]

I'm exaggerating a bit, but there's probably a pretty good segment of the population over here that couldn't tell you what exactly is different between the terms England, United Kingdom, and Great Britain.

I could! But that's because I took a course on the British Empire last semester.
Of course, I'm not entierly sure how familiar people from other countries are with our history and cultural concepts. Here are some facts I'm pretty sure (Or at least I hope) are common knowledge in the States
1. Coke and Pepsi are two popular brands of cola.
2. At the federal level our legislative branch consists of two bodies, the Senate and the House of Representatives.
3. George Washington was a general during the revolutionary war and was the first person to serve as President of the United States.
4. Thomas Jefferson acquired a large amount of territory from the French in the Louisiana Purchase.
5. Abraham Lincoln was president during the Civil War.
6. There was a period during the early 20th century when Alcohol was illegal.
7. The United States officially entered World War Two after the bombing of Pearl Harbor.
8. The First Amendment prevents the establishment of a state religion.
9. The Watergate incident was a political scandal that led to the resignation of President Nixon.
10. Every 4 years a presidential election is held, presidents may only serve a total of 2 terms.

Now, if I approached any American above the age of, say,ten, and showed them this list, I could be decently sure they would know everything on it, or at the very least nine out of ten things. But I'm not sure how much of this stuff everybody else knows. If I went to britain, heard about some political scandal, started calling it SomthingGate would people understand what I'm doing?

[Vargtass]

I could! But that's because I took a course on the British Empire last semester.
Of course, I'm not entierly sure how familiar people from other countries are with our history and cultural concepts. Here are some facts I'm pretty sure (Or at least I hope) are common knowledge in the States
1. Coke and Pepsi are two popular brands of cola.
2. At the federal level our legislative branch consists of two bodies, the Senate and the House of Representatives.
3. George Washington was a general during the revolutionary war and was the first person to serve as President of the United States.
4. Thomas Jefferson acquired a large amount of territory from the French in the Louisiana Purchase.
5. Abraham Lincoln was president during the Civil War.
6. There was a period during the early 20th century when Alcohol was illegal.
7. The United States officially entered World War Two after the bombing of Pearl Harbor.
8. The First Amendment prevents the establishment of a state religion.
9. The Watergate incident was a political scandal that led to the resignation of President Nixon.
10. Every 4 years a presidential election is held, presidents may only serve a total of 2 terms.

Now, if I approached any American above the age of, say,ten, and showed them this list, I could be decently sure they would know everything on it, or at the very least nine out of ten things. But I'm not sure how much of this stuff everybody else knows. If I went to britain, heard about some political scandal, started calling it SomthingGate would people understand what I'm doing?

Interesting list. I was hazy on number 4, but think the rest are pretty obvious. I think the somethinggate reference would normally not be lost on people in Europe (not from age ten though).

[derfenrirwolv]

Seriously, why do people say England when they mean Britain?

Because i can never remember the flow chart of whats what over there. :smallwink:

[Morthis]

And I have some blurry memories of KFC advertisements playing the Star Spangled Banner music.

Since I don't live there anymore, I have no clue how much Belgium or Europe has changed, but 10 or so years ago, I had no clue what KFC was. The only American fast food placed I'd seen in Europe at that point were McDonalds.


While I certainly wouldn't consider someone from the developed world to be uneducated for not recognising the American national anthem, I would consider them to have been living under a rock. :smallwink:

I did say that those watching TV would probably know it. ;)

Part of the problem is, I don't know how much has changed in Europe in the 10 or so years I've been gone. When I was last there, we only just got a new TV channel that ran some American TV. As I recall, some of the American TV we had was Simpsons, Friends, Seinfeld, and the Tonight Show with Jay Leno. You have to realize that 10 years ago, TV was not a huge part of our life, at least not in the same way it is for America. We had like 6 channels to choose from without going to foreign channels. In America, you can pretty much find something that will interest you at almost every time of the day on one of the many channels available, in Europe the TV was off unless a specific program was coming on that interested you. I know that's been changing though, because I know my cousins are watching discovery constantly these days, so obviously some American channels made it over there, I don't know how many though.

Perhaps that's where the difference comes in. I grew up learning a decent amount of American culture from the few American shows available. These days, Europeans probably have a lot more American shows/channels available, so kids growing up now will be able to see a lot more American shows and learn more about the culture. It certainly helps spread English. Most Europeans who watch TV are able to communicate, at least on a basic level, in English, simply thanks to TV. I know I learned most of my original English from computers and TV.

[Gwynfrid]

I find BRC's list interesting too. About #4, I knew about the Louisiana Purchase but wouldn't have attributed it to Jefferson. About #8, I knew about no state religion but wouldn't have known if it was an amendment or the original Constitution. So, my score would depend on the questions' wording.

I would expect most reasonably educated Europeans would score at least 50% on that list. To make things easier for us, you'd have to make it lighter on history and a bit more heavy on exported popular culture (more Pepsi / Coke type questions). This depends also on people's age. For example, I think the younger generation would know about Pearl Harbor and the Civil War, but maybe not Watergate, because this event had less impact outside the US than the other two.

[BRC]

I find BRC's list interesting too. About #4, I knew about the Louisiana Purchase but wouldn't have attributed it to Jefferson. About #8, I knew about no state religion but wouldn't have known if it was an amendment or the original Constitution. So, my score would depend on the questions' wording.

I would expect most reasonably educated Europeans would score at least 50% on that list. To make things easier for us, you'd have to make it lighter on history and a bit more heavy on exported popular culture (more Pepsi / Coke type questions). This depends also on people's age. For example, I think the younger generation would know about Pearl Harbor and the Civil War, but maybe not Watergate, because this event had less impact outside the US than the other two.
It's heavy on history because I'm a history buff (somewhat), and because, due to the transient nature of popular culture it's harder to make a list for that.
Edit: Also, I didn't grow up watching much television, and currently watch even less.

[Gwynfrid]

It's heavy on history because I'm a history buff (somewhat), and because, due to the transient nature of popular culture it's harder to make a list for that.
Edit: Also, I didn't grow up watching much television, and currently watch even less.

Agree.

Now, I wonder what the result would be if I gave you an equivalent list of questions about France, or Europe :smalltongue:

[BRC]

Agree.

Now, I wonder what the result would be if I gave you an equivalent list of questions about France, or Europe :smalltongue:
That would be interesting. Go right ahead (Try to make them things like my list, fairly general statements)

[Kish]

Every minute this thread stays unlocked surprises me.

[BRC]

Every minute this thread stays unlocked surprises me.
Why? We're not trolling or advertising. Not discussing religion or politics, we're just talking about the cultural perspective the comic is written from versus that of some of it's readers.

[Forbiddenwar]

Now, if I approached any American above the age of, say,ten, and showed them this list, I could be decently sure That 3/10 of them would know everything on it, or at the very least nine out of ten things.

Sadly, I fixed it for you.

[Katana_Geldar]

Well, i think most americans would recognize the TUNES of the English and french national anthems, but i can't recall ever hearing the words to either.

Most people in the English speaking world would know the tune to the French national anthem because of The Beatles (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QfEiDO9opg)

"Run out the clock" is something I didn't know about, and I heard that expression more than once before I asked about it.

[Ted The Bug]

Because if you're American you're like one of three Americans I've ran into that even know Belgium is a country in Europe, and I've never met one that knew the country is split into a Flemish and Walloon part (I'm not saying they should have known, just that they didn't). :smallconfused:

What kind of Americans are you meeting? The notion that all Americans are uneducated and America-centric is pretty much false. I'm pretty sure that most Americans know Belgium is a country, and some (read: at least one, me) know that about the Flemish-Walloon split. I’ve lived in Europe, and the people there were neither more or less world-savvy than those here in New York. As a matter of fact, while living there, a friend of mind referred to Prague as a city in Russia.


The foundation of Gob makes absolutely no mention of the bloody slaughter that lead up to it's foundation. Probably somewhat drawing a comparison to the founding of America and the Native Americans. Granted we haven't written it out of the history books, some people tend to overlook it happened entirely.


I agree with you on the diminished role that Americans give their slaughter of the Native Americans in the founding and expansion of the nation, but the goblins seem to wear their nation's bloody start as a badge of pride. I mean, "The Blood-Spattered Banner" isn't exactly ignoring the violent beginning of Gobbotopia. If anything, it seems more like the American Revolution than the slaughter of the natives.

[Gwynfrid]

That would be interesting. Go right ahead (Try to make them things like my list, fairly general statements)

OK, here goes (trying to match each of your questions with an equivalent):

1) The two most famous wine-growing regions of France are Bordeaux and Burgundy.
2) France is not a federation, but a Republic with a fairly centralized power system.
3) King Louis XVI lost his throne and was beheaded during the Revolution that gave birth to the First French Republic.
4) Napoleon conquered most of Europe before finally losing to a coalition of all major European powers.
5) Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau was one of the key players negotiating the 1918 Treaty of Versailles that changed the map of Europe after World War I.
6) France once had a colonial empire which was second only to Britain's.
7) During World War Two, France was defeated by Germany. General Charles de Gaulle lead the "Free French" resistance movement, based in London, and was eventually recognized as the country's leader by the Allies.
8) France's current constitution is that of the Fifth Republic, established in 1958.
9) President François Mitterrand was elected in 1981, heading a coalition of the Socialist and Communist parties.
10) The term of a French President used to be 7 years with no limit on re-election. A recent constitutional reform reduced it to 5 years.

[Edmundog]

Really? For people who watch a lot of TV in Europe, probably, but I certainly never learned that in HS in Europe. Honestly, can you tell me the Anthem of any European nation without googling it?

Most Americans know the U.K., French, and German anthems.


(America founded under Christianity, even if it's not a state religion, it still has deep roots in America).

America was not only not founded under Christianity, it was founded as a completely secular nation. Those that claim it was may be referring to the fundamentalist Protestants that settled New England, or may just be misinformed. But they were colonizing for England. The United States of America was founded on secular principles by mostly nonreligious men.


(that Americans think their country is better than that of everybody else).

Ugh. Agreed there. Too many Americans have no ability to consider that anything else has anything to offer.


Probably somewhat drawing a comparison to the founding of America and the Native Americans. Granted we haven't written it out of the history books, some people tend to overlook it happened entirely.

Admittedly, I teach in the northeast, and it's probably different in other areas, but our curricula are quite clear that we should teach the good and the bad about settling. I don't teach too fondly about Andrew Jackson, and my school's official policy on Christopher Columbus is to teach only that his initial voyage kickstarted the New World craze, with none of this treating him as a hero that used to be the standard in US schools.

[JoseB]

Well, as we are talking about anthems, I might chime in with this little piece of trivia: The national anthem of my country of birth, Spain ("La Marcha Real", "Royal March"), has no words. There have been several attempts to craft words for it, but none "caught".

Between 1931 and 1939 the Spanish republic had its own anthem ("El Himno de Riego", "Riego's Anthem"), and that one had words.

[BRC]

OK, here goes (trying to match each of your questions with an equivalent):

1) The two most famous wine-growing regions of France are Bordeaux and Burgundy.
Didn't know that, but knew enough to not be surprised in the least.


2) France is not a federation, but a Republic with a fairly centralized power system.
Never thought France was anything else.


3) King Louis XVI lost his throne and was beheaded during the Revolution that gave birth to the First French Republic
4) Napoleon conquered most of Europe before finally losing to a coalition of all major European powers.

Knew these two.


5) Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau was one of the key players negotiating the 1918 Treaty of Versailles that changed the map of Europe after World War I. Didn't know the name, but knew the role and influence on the Treaty of Versailles.


6) France once had a colonial empire which was second only to Britain's.
I thought Spain's was bigger than France, but I knew the french had a colonial empire. (of course, this depends on what you mean by "Second to", are we talking Territory, number of subject, economic power, ect ect)


7) During World War Two, France was defeated by Germany. General Charles de Gaulle lead the "Free French" resistance movement, based in London, and was eventually recognized as the country's leader by the Allies.
Knew this.


8) France's current constitution is that of the Fifth Republic, established in 1958.
Didn't know this.


9) President François Mitterrand was elected in 1981, heading a coalition of the Socialist and Communist parties. Didn't know this.


10) The term of a French President used to be 7 years with no limit on re-election. A recent constitutional reform reduced it to 5 years.
unaware of this.

So you scored a good deal better on my quiz than I did on yours, which I guess supports the stereotype somewhat, (Mind you, I've taken American history courses and World history courses, but no specifically European history courses, which I guess makes sense. I wouldn't imagine a French high school would specifically teach an American history course)

[Katana_Geldar]

Our national anthem 'Advance Australia Fair' isn't that bad, though we usually make a rather slack job of singing it. It's only been official since the 80's.

I cannot count the number of times I have sung it, usually without any sort of gusto but I always like to hear it sung bu a certain lady (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julie_Anthony_(Australian_singer)) and was rapt anything that she sang it at the Olympics as shes the best at it.

[Edmundog]

I don't just mean ignoring Wales, we're pretty small, so I can understand that, but the UK (as opposed to just "England") has been around for about 250 years, IIRC, so I can't understand why people keep saying England instead of Britain or the UK. Like I said, no-one goes around calling Germany "Prussia".

Yeah, but everyone calls the United States "America". It's not quite the same, but I think it's comparable.

[Morthis]

I could! But that's because I took a course on the British Empire last semester.
Of course, I'm not entierly sure how familiar people from other countries are with our history and cultural concepts. Here are some facts I'm pretty sure (Or at least I hope) are common knowledge in the States
1. Coke and Pepsi are two popular brands of cola.
2. At the federal level our legislative branch consists of two bodies, the Senate and the House of Representatives.
3. George Washington was a general during the revolutionary war and was the first person to serve as President of the United States.
4. Thomas Jefferson acquired a large amount of territory from the French in the Louisiana Purchase.
5. Abraham Lincoln was president during the Civil War.
6. There was a period during the early 20th century when Alcohol was illegal.
7. The United States officially entered World War Two after the bombing of Pearl Harbor.
8. The First Amendment prevents the establishment of a state religion.
9. The Watergate incident was a political scandal that led to the resignation of President Nixon.
10. Every 4 years a presidential election is held, presidents may only serve a total of 2 terms.

Now, if I approached any American above the age of, say,ten, and showed them this list, I could be decently sure they would know everything on it, or at the very least nine out of ten things. But I'm not sure how much of this stuff everybody else knows. If I went to britain, heard about some political scandal, started calling it SomthingGate would people understand what I'm doing?

From my perspective, what I can remember (it's hard to remember what I learned since moving over and what I knew before).

1. I would expect so yes. One thing to note, we call both cola (at least in Belgium), we don't designate them as Coke or Pepsi typically.
2. People often don't even care about politics in their own nation, why would they care about the workings of politics of another one? I'm not sure many people would know the 3 branches of government America has, or the difference between the Senate and the House.
3. General? Maybe. First President? Definitely.
4. I doubt it.
5. Actually not sure here. Odds are they've at least heard of Abraham Lincoln, have some idea what he looks like, and know that he's one of the most famous presidents in America.
6. Probably.
7. Yes. The World Wars were an important part of European history classes, and America was obviously a big player in them.
8. I'd think they know the freedom of speech part more, but probably.
9. Ehh, maybe if they were old enough to watch the news during that time. Otherwise, I sort of doubt it.
10. First part definitely, second part probably. American elections obviously don't receive the kind of coverage in Europe as they do in America, but it does receive coverage.


What kind of Americans are you meeting? The notion that all Americans are uneducated and America-centric is pretty much false. I'm pretty sure that most Americans know Belgium is a country, and some (read: at least one, me) know that about the Flemish-Walloon split. I’ve lived in Europe, and the people there were neither more or less world-savvy than those here in New York. As a matter of fact, while living there, a friend of mind referred to Prague as a city in Russia.

I was never trying to imply Americans are uneducated or America-centric. I was simply stating that most Americans I've met do not know Belgium, and I've lived here for 10 years. Since I have an accent, the question where are you from is not that uncommon, and I've gotten into the habit of adding Europe my answer. I don't think it's a sign of poor education when people don't know Belgium, it's relatively small and relatively new when looking at history. In the same way I wouldn't be surprised if Europeans couldn't even name 10 American states, or point at some general area where they might be on a map.

[BRC]

Yeah, but everyone calls the United States "America". It's not quite the same, but I think it's comparable.
Well, the countries full name is "The United States of America", so America could be considered shortening it.
It would be comparable of it was "The United Kingdoms of England, Wales, Scotland, and a little bit of Ireland". I think we use England because it's one word (With a nice vowel sound and no hard consonants).

Also, my list was 10 things I believe every american knows (Or should know at least.) I'm not expecting people from other countries to know everything on it.

[Katana_Geldar]

It's actually The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

And we use England to differentiate from Wales and Scotland. Don't ever go to Wales or Scotland and say how pleased you are to be in England.

[Kerrah]

1. Coke and Pepsi are two popular brands of cola.
2. At the federal level our legislative branch consists of two bodies, the Senate and the House of Representatives.
3. George Washington was a general during the revolutionary war and was the first person to serve as President of the United States.
4. Thomas Jefferson acquired a large amount of territory from the French in the Louisiana Purchase.
5. Abraham Lincoln was president during the Civil War.
6. There was a period during the early 20th century when Alcohol was illegal.
7. The United States officially entered World War Two after the bombing of Pearl Harbor.
8. The First Amendment prevents the establishment of a state religion.
9. The Watergate incident was a political scandal that led to the resignation of President Nixon.
10. Every 4 years a presidential election is held, presidents may only serve a total of 2 terms.

1) The two most famous wine-growing regions of France are Bordeaux and Burgundy.
2) France is not a federation, but a Republic with a fairly centralized power system.
3) King Louis XVI lost his throne and was beheaded during the Revolution that gave birth to the First French Republic.
4) Napoleon conquered most of Europe before finally losing to a coalition of all major European powers.
5) Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau was one of the key players negotiating the 1918 Treaty of Versailles that changed the map of Europe after World War I.
6) France once had a colonial empire which was second only to Britain's.
7) During World War Two, France was defeated by Germany. General Charles de Gaulle lead the "Free French" resistance movement, based in London, and was eventually recognized as the country's leader by the Allies.
8) France's current constitution is that of the Fifth Republic, established in 1958.
9) President François Mitterrand was elected in 1981, heading a coalition of the Socialist and Communist parties.
10) The term of a French President used to be 7 years with no limit on re-election. A recent constitutional reform reduced it to 5 years.

I underlined the ones I knew from before. Let's see who knows anything about my little, insignificant country:

1) Nokia, Kone and Wärtsilä are Finnish companies.
2) Finland was the first country in the world to establish universal suffrage and allow women to run for the parliament.
3) Finland was ruled by Swedish kings from the Medieval times all the way to the early 1800s.
4) For the following century, Finland was a Grand Duchy of the Russian Empire.
5) Unlike the other Axis-aligned countries near Russia that got steamrolled by the Red Army, Finland did not become a People's Republic in the aftermath of WWII.
6) Finland is one of the few countries besides the USA to outlaw alcohol for a brief period of time.
7) Finland fought the Soviet Union in two separate wars during WWII: the Winter War and the Continuation War.
8) Finland became independent in 1918 (declaration happened in 1917).
9) Urho Kaleva Kekkonen was a Finnish president during the Cold War and was well known for keeping the USSR content with Finland's peacefulness by any means necessary.
10) Finnish presidents have terms of six years and can be elected twice (with the exception of Kekkonen, who stayed in office longer because he was the only thing keeping the Soviets from turning hostile, but that's not a necessary bit).

The sequence is kinda messed up, since I tried to pick the answers from the same general fields of knowledge. Thing is, I don't have much to draw from, since even the USA has a longer history of interesting crap.

Main point is, that I often find myself separated from the point of a punchline by the cultural barrier. I don't blame Rich, though, since the jokes hit most of the audience, and oftentimes are funny if you don't have to have them explained to you. They're the same thing as D&D rule jokes: not everyone is going to get them, and we'll have to live with that.

[Gilmiril]

Most Americans know the U.K., French, and German anthems.

Colour me skeptical, but I find that hard to believe.



America was not only not founded under Christianity, it was founded as a completely secular nation. Those that claim it was may be referring to the fundamentalist Protestants that settled New England, or may just be misinformed. But they were colonizing for England. The United States of America was founded on secular principles by mostly nonreligious men.

More likely, they were referring to the Pledge of Allegiance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance), which has the phrase "one nation under God". Of course, this is not part of the constitution, and the words "under God" weren't added until 1954.



Admittedly, I teach in the northeast, and it's probably different in other areas, but our curricula are quite clear that we should teach the good and the bad about settling. I don't teach too fondly about Andrew Jackson, and my school's official policy on Christopher Columbus is to teach only that his initial voyage kickstarted the New World craze, with none of this treating him as a hero that used to be the standard in US schools.

No offense intended, but I visited the New England area for the first time about 8 years ago, and I found it particularly insular and disinterested. With only one exception, every conversation we had with locals ended the moment they found out we were from Canada; they simply had no interest (the exception was a Boston Bruins fan, who knew my hometown through NHL hockey). Such an attitude cannot lead to many people knowing much of anything of the outside world.

An extreme anecdote was this--while touring the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Breakers]Breakers[/quote], my wife was greeted by a staff person and asked where she was from. "Edmonton, Canada," she replied.

"And where abouts is that?", the staff person asked.

"Western Canada," she replied again, and seeing a blank look added, "North of Montana."

After a pause, the staff person asked, "Anywhere else I might know?"

I don't mean to say that every American is this clueless, but there are enough of them to generate the stereotype. Fortunately, most of the Americans I know aren't anything like this.

[Kerrah]

Colour me skeptical, but I find that hard to believe.

I agree. I have no idea what the national anthem of Germany is like, and I really can't make myself think I should. I might recognise the melody, since I followed Formula 1 races back when that one German Ferrari driver used to win all the time. (Don't enlighten me on the name, people. Let's not derail this further and start talking about Formula driving too.)

[Ego]

So it seems most of us learn national anthems from watching sports. I've caught some of the French anthem just the other day watching handball (damn it, you'l loose some day :smallwink:).

[werik]

I aced both the American and French common fact questionnaire, but I'm American and I study French history so I'm not exactly representative.


5) Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau was one of the key players negotiating the 1918 Treaty of Versailles that changed the map of the world after World War I.

I also fixed that for you.:smallwink:

[Gwynfrid]

I thought Spain's was bigger than France, but I knew the french had a colonial empire. (of course, this depends on what you mean by "Second to", are we talking Territory, number of subject, economic power, ect ect)

Hmm... It's because my statement was not time-specific enough. At one point, Spain's empire was number one. France's and Britain's got larger in the 19th century.


So you scored a good deal better on my quiz than I did on yours, which I guess supports the stereotype somewhat, (Mind you, I've taken American history courses and World history courses, but no specifically European history courses, which I guess makes sense. I wouldn't imagine a French high school would specifically teach an American history course)

I think this has more to do with the relative impact of each country on world affairs. I certainly would not expect you to know the term duration for the French presidency, even if you are a big history/politics buff: The French president's election matters little in the US, most of the time. On the other hand, the US presidential election can have a big impact on the world at large.

So, I may be scoring well on your list, but I don't expect I would do as well on an equivalent list from a German, Spanish or British reader, for example, even though these countries are France's neighbors.


Let's see who knows anything about my little, insignificant country:

1) Nokia, Kone and Wärtsilä are Finnish companies.
2) Finland was the first country in the world to establish universal suffrage and allow women to run for the parliament.
3) Finland was ruled by Swedish kings from the Medieval times all the way to the early 1800s.
4) For the following century, Finland was a Grand Duchy of the Russian Empire.
5) Unlike the other Axis-aligned countries near Russia that got steamrolled by the Red Army, Finland did not become a People's Republic in the aftermath of WWII.
6) Finland is one of the few countries besides the USA to outlaw alcohol for a brief period of time.
7) Finland fought the Soviet Union in two separate wars during WWII: the Winter War and the Continuation War.
8) Finland became independent in 1918 (declaration happened in 1917).
9) Urho Kaleva Kekkonen was a Finnish president during the Cold War and was well known for keeping the USSR content with Finland's peacefulness by any means necessary.
10) Finnish presidents have terms of six years and can be elected twice (with the exception of Kekkonen, who stayed in office longer because he was the only thing keeping the Soviets from turning hostile, but that's not a necessary bit).


Case in point. I knew about 5 and 8. I can maybe get partial points on 1 (Nokia I know, but I have no idea what Kone and Wärtsilä do), 3, 4, and 7. And that's only because many of these are linked to WWI and WWII, big exam topics when I was in high school.

[Ron Miel]

I agree. I have no idea what the national anthem of Germany is like, and I really can't make myself think I should. I might recognise the melody ...

Oh, you must have heard it. If you've seen a war movie with Germans singing then you've heard it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2IaFaJrmno

Deutschland, Deutschland über alles,
Über alles in der Welt...

[TriForce]

I could! But that's because I took a course on the British Empire last semester.
Of course, I'm not entierly sure how familiar people from other countries are with our history and cultural concepts. Here are some facts I'm pretty sure (Or at least I hope) are common knowledge in the States
1. Coke and Pepsi are two popular brands of cola.
2. At the federal level our legislative branch consists of two bodies, the Senate and the House of Representatives.
3. George Washington was a general during the revolutionary war and was the first person to serve as President of the United States.
4. Thomas Jefferson acquired a large amount of territory from the French in the Louisiana Purchase.
5. Abraham Lincoln was president during the Civil War.
6. There was a period during the early 20th century when Alcohol was illegal.
7. The United States officially entered World War Two after the bombing of Pearl Harbor.
8. The First Amendment prevents the establishment of a state religion.
9. The Watergate incident was a political scandal that led to the resignation of President Nixon.
10. Every 4 years a presidential election is held, presidents may only serve a total of 2 terms.

Now, if I approached any American above the age of, say,ten, and showed them this list, I could be decently sure they would know everything on it, or at the very least nine out of ten things. But I'm not sure how much of this stuff everybody else knows. If I went to britain, heard about some political scandal, started calling it SomthingGate would people understand what I'm doing?

I KNEW 1, 2, 3, 5, 6,7 AND 10

im (as you can see from my earlyer post) dutch (and no, thats not a province of germany you american dolts:P) now to be honest, asides from a very few exeptions, most of that list isnt really interesting for most europeans, and i dont mean this insulting, but it amazes me how much americans expect us to care for their internal history/customs/rules, ofc, its very useful to know if you want to live in america, or even if you go there on vacation, but honestly, a lot of americans overrate their nations significance on us europeans every now and then (as i said, its not meant to be insulting, i know plenty of americans that dont have that nasty habit of thinking of themselves as saviours of the world:P)

[PallElendro]

I mainly discovered the Allah and Osama reference to it, couple of terrorists attacking an entire metropolis...

[CapedLuigiYoshi]

I would like to point out the following:

- I am American.
- I am of the opinion that most Americans are selfish and stupid.
- I am of the opinion that most people from any other country are equally selfish and stupid.
- I am not necessarily excluding myself from the category of "selfish and stupid".

:smalltongue:

And wait, there are people who don't know about the Treaty of Versailles and/or the War of 1812?:smallsigh:

[Edmundog]

Colour me skeptical, but I find that hard to believe.

I'm serious. We may not know the words, but we can at least recognize them.


More likely, they were referring to the Pledge of Allegiance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance), which has the phrase "one nation under God". Of course, this is not part of the constitution, and the words "under God" weren't added until 1954.

And it was written by a Communist, no less. (Well, Christian Socialist, but as far as the "Under God" folks are concerned...



No offense intended, but I visited the New England area for the first time about 8 years ago, and I found it particularly insular and disinterested.

None taken. I'm from New Jersey. I only mention it in the context of how we view expansion, Native concerns, things like that. I imagine we're a bit more open to alternative viewpoints than more conservative regions.

[BRC]

their nations significance on us europeans every now and then (as i said, its not meant to be insulting, i know plenty of americans that dont have that nasty habit of thinking of themselves as saviours of the world:P)
I think it's largely a result of our nation's large size and relative geographic isolation. It's let us have alot of internal history, I have a feeling the words "Foreign Country" mean alot more in the States than they do in Europe. If you're in the center of France, you are comparatively close to Germany, Italy, the UK, Belgium, Spain, ect. If you are standing in the middle of the US you are quite a long way away from Canada and Mexico. This, combined with our role as a serious cultural exporter, means the chances of being exposed to other cultures are significantly less than somebody from Europe. I've lived in the US (Specifically the Midwest) all my life, and you don't get much exposure there. The Rest of the world was something that got a spot on the news between who beat who in sports, who kissed who in hollywood, and who called who a lying scumbag in washington.
I have work to get doing, but my point is, it's no accident we're such an insular nation.

[thepsyker]

Are you European and possibly Belgian? Because if you're American you're like one of three Americans I've ran into that even know Belgium is a country in Europe, and I've never met one that knew the country is split into a Flemish and Walloon part (I'm not saying they should have known, just that they didn't). :smallconfused:I'm an American and I knew Belgium was a country and that it was split into two parts, although I couldn't have named them. I would have recognized Flemish as one of them if I heard it mentioned though. Then again I'm a history buff.

[Turkish Delight]

I don't just mean ignoring Wales, we're pretty small, so I can understand that, but the UK (as opposed to just "England") has been around for about 250 years, IIRC, so I can't understand why people keep saying England instead of Britain or the UK. Like I said, no-one goes around calling Germany "Prussia".

To be fair, this can happen when British refer to Americans, as well. 'Yankee' or 'Yank', even if spoken without intent to offend, is a term which traditionally refers only to someone from New England, and then later went on to be applied to anyone north of the Mason-Dixon line. It does not apply to Americans from the South, and in fact was used during the Civil War as the general name for the enemy, and afterwards as a disparaging term for the victors.

Calling a Southerner a 'Yank' is basically like calling a Scot or Irishman English, in their eyes. Even if used playfully, it's likely to annoy them.

...

Hmmm...I think this thread will probably be locked. But just throwing that out while the issue is up.

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff of Moddingham: This thread, while theoretically possible, is too political and religious at this point. Please people, give these topics a wide berth.