Arena Tournament, Round 69: Shooter McArcher & Team Player vs. Lil' Smasher & Quork

[ArenaManager]

Arena Tournament, Round 69: Shooter McArcher & Team Player vs. Lil' Smasher & Quork

Map:
http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z123/TheChilliGod/Giantitp/Arena2i.gif
The Arena walls for this map are 30 ft high, with a Climb DC of 30.



XP Award: 300 XP to each non-DQd member of winning team
GP Award: 300 GP to each non-DQd member of winning team

Shooter McArcher (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=144187) - Master_Rahl22
Team Player (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=139454) - Ganurath
Lil' Smasher (http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=30172) - Tanaric
Quork (http://pifro.com/pro/view.php?id=3409) - Sallera


All Combatants, please roll initiative and declare any starting combatants.

Prior to the match start you may privately plan by spoiler or PM with your partner, but after the start any communications will need to be done in character inside the arena as rules allow.

[Sallera]

Init: [roll0]

Purchasing a scroll of Hold Person and a tattoo of Force Screen.

[Ganurath]

[roll0]

No purchases.

Teammate:Suggestions for how we handle them this time?

[Master_Rahl22]

[roll0]

No purchases

Team Player:
No clue. You got incredibly unlucky with that max damage roll, and then 1 archer vs 2 clerics probably wasn't going to turn out well. I think going without armor is still a good plan. I suppose we just try to beat down/pincushion them and hope for better rolls. :smallsmile:

[Tanaric]

Initiative: [roll0]

Purchasing a potion of invisibility.

[Tanaric]

Oh, right, I go first. Starting positions for everyone?

[Sallera]

A11, scroll in hand.

[Master_Rahl22]

Y-10, bow in hand

[Ganurath]

Y11, armed and unarmored.

[Tanaric]

Smasher, round 1

Starting in B-10, potion in hand.

Whisper to Quork:I'll be standing in front of you to give soft cover from the inevitable arrowy onslaught.

Chug potion. Drop bottle.

Refs:Draw morningstar, 5-ft step to B-11.

Done.

Stats:HP: 11/11
AC: 19/13/16
Loc: B-11
Spells: CMW x2, Virtue x1, Light of Lunia x1, True Strike x1, CLW x1

[Master_Rahl22]

Shooter McArcher, turn 1

5ft step to X-10.

Full round: Rapid Shot on Quork, vs FF AC since he hasn't had a turn
[roll0]
[roll1]
[roll2]
[roll3]

End of turn.

Stats:

HP: 12/12
AC: Full 16, FF 12, Touch 14
Saves: Fort +3, Ref +4, Will +1

[Sallera]

Quork, Round 1

Move to G13.
Standard: Tap tattoo.
Swift: Cast a spell, DC16:Quickened Shield of Faith.
Free: Declare Hatred on TP.

Stats:HP 7/7, AC 23 (15, 20)
PP: 2/2
TU: 6/11
Spells:
0th
Virtue
Guidance
Inflict Minor Wounds
1st
Doom
Shield of Faith
Summon Monster I
Done.

[Ganurath]

Team Player

Let's head south out of LoS.

Ref/LoS:From Y11 to Y15 to W17, then take a total defense action. Since I only get some of the knowledge from the rolls before my action, I'll say I enter the Martial Spirit stance if the first three of my granted manuever rolls don't get me Moment of Perfect Mind.

Edit: No stance yet, then.

Shout in Elven:"Tell me where you see them go!"

Stats:HP: 11/11
AC: 19 Full, 12 FF, 19 Touch, +3 Dexterity, +4 Dodge, +2 Tree
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +4, Will -2
Special: Furious Counterstrike, Steely Resolve 5, Martial Spirit(?)

1. Crusader's Strike
2. Vanguard's Strike
3. Stone Bones
4. Charging Minotaur
5. Moment of Perfect Mind

[roll0]
[roll1]
[roll2]
And, upon review of the Crusader granting rules, I get a fourth for the end of the turn.
[roll3]

[Tanaric]

Smasher, round 2

Cast Light of Lunia (Note: Precedent states that this matches normal lightning conditions and does not render me visible.)

Move to H-15. As I pass Quork, I whisper "Moving to H-15."

Done. We should get a LoS check.

Stats:HP: 11/11
AC: 19/13/16
Loc: H-15
Spells: CMW x2, Virtue x1, Light of Lunia x1, True Strike x1, CLW x1

[hustlertwo]

LoS

Shooter

You hear your partner shout in Elven "Tell me where you see them go!", and you see him in W-17 and Quork in G-13.

Team Player

You see Shooter in X-10.

Quork

You see a tree. It's really big and brown. You hear someone pass, who then whispers "Moving to H-15." And I suppose you also just barely see Shooter in X-10.

Smasher

You see Team Player in W-17, Shooter in X-10, and your buddy Quork in G-13.

[Master_Rahl22]

Shooter McArcher, turn 2

5ft step to X-9.

Free: Speak in Elven
"Smasher is invisible, Quork is behind the other post at Q-13"

Full round: Rapid Shot on Quork
[roll0]
[roll1]
[roll2]
[roll3]

End of turn.

Stats:

HP: 12/12
AC: Full 16, FF 12, Touch 14
Saves: Fort +3, Ref +4, Will +1

[Sallera]

Misses.

Quork, Round 2

Swift: Cast a spell, DC16:Quickened Doom. Shooter, DC14 Will or shaken.
Attempt to double move to R11.
Jump, DC10: [roll0]
If that fails, Swim DC10 to avoid sinking: [roll1]

Stats:HP 7/7, AC 23 (15, 20) (+2 if on tree) (+2 vs. TP)
PP: 2/2
Psionically focused
TU: 1/11
Spells:
0th
Virtue
Guidance
Inflict Minor Wounds
1st
Doom
Shield of Faith
Summon Monster I
Done.

[Ganurath]

Team Player

Ref/LoSI'll take a move action to X9, followed by a readied action. I'll ready an action make a sunder attempt against Quork's spear if the Elan enters my reach, using maximized Stone Power.This is only spoilered because I don't know where Smasher is.

Stats:HP: 11/11
AC: 13 Full, 10 FF, 13 Touch, +3 Dexterity
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +4, Will -2
Special: Furious Counterstrike, Steely Resolve 5

1. Crusader's Strike
2. Vanguard's Strike
3. Stone Bones
4. Charging Minotaur
5. Moment of Perfect Mind

[roll0]

[Master_Rahl22]

[roll0]

Ganurath/Refs:
I'm currently in X-9.

[Ganurath]

Adjustment to Above Action:Double move to X8, then.

[Tanaric]

Smasher, round 3

Double move T-17.

Done.

Stats:HP: 11/11
AC: 19/13/16
Loc: T-17
Spells: CMW x2, Virtue x1, Light of Lunia x1, True Strike x1, CLW x1

[Master_Rahl22]

Shooter McArcher, turn 3

5ft step to X-10.

Full round: Rapid Shot on Quork, close enough for Point Blank Shot
[roll0]
[roll1]
[roll2]
[roll3]

End of turn.

Stats:

HP: 12/12
AC: Full 16, FF 12, Touch 14
Saves: Fort +3, Ref +4, Will +1 (-2 for Shaken)

Shaken: 9/10

[Sallera]

Quork, Round 3

Standard: Cast Hold Person from scroll on Shooter. DC4 CL: [roll0]
If that succeeds:
DC13 Will or paralyzed.
Free: Drop scroll.
Move: Draw spear.

Stats:HP 7/7, AC 25 (17, 22) (+2 vs. TP)
PP: 2/2
Psionically focused
TU: 1/11
Active Effects: Force Screen 8 rounds, Shield of Faith 8 rounds, Hatred 8 rounds
Spells:
0th
Virtue
Guidance
Inflict Minor Wounds
1st
Doom
Shield of Faith
Summon Monster I
Done.

[Ganurath]

I'll use Moment of Perfect Mind as a swift action.

[roll0]

Wrong person.

[Ganurath]

Team Player

Ref/LoS:I'll take a move action to T8, enter the Martial Spirit stance, then ready an action.Sunder attempt with max Stone Power on Quork's spear if the Elan enters my reach.

Stats:HP: 11/11
AC: 13 Full, 10 FF, 13 Touch, +3 Dexterity
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +4, Will -2
Special: Furious Counterstrike, Steely Resolve 5, Martial Spirit

1. Crusader's Strike
2. Vanguard's Strike
3. Stone Bones
4. Charging Minotaur
5. Moment of Perfect Mind

[roll0]
[roll1]
[roll2]

[Sallera]

That was at Shooter, not you. Unless that MoPM was in response to something I'm unaware of, in which case, ignore me...

[Ganurath]

Nope, it was my mistake. My action will stand regardless of the save result, though.

[Tanaric]

Waiting on result of the save.

[Master_Rahl22]

[roll0] This will probably be GG if I don't get super lucky.

EDIT: and there's the luck. Continue. :smallwink:

[Tanaric]

Smasher, round 4

Cast DMM:Quickened True Strike. Move to Y-11. Attack SMArcher with Psionic Weapon.

Smasher appears in Y-11 after taking a swipe at Shooter's head.

[roll0] for [roll1] + [roll2]

Done.

[Master_Rahl22]

Shooter McArcher, turn 4

Speak Elven:
Avenge me!

5ft step to X-9.

Standard: Shoot Smasher, close enough for Point Blank Shot
[roll0]
[roll1]

Shooter succumbs to his wounds and falls unconscious.

End of turn.

Stats:

HP: -1/12
AC: Full 16, FF 12, Touch 14
Saves: Fort +3, Ref +4, Will +1 (-2 for Shaken)

Shaken: 8/10

[Sallera]

Well, I'd rather not give TP the chance to bring you back up again. I was going to use this if you failed your save, but...

Quork, Round 4

Free: Shift grip to one hand.
Swift: Activate Chronocharm of the Uncaring Archmage.
Standard: Cast Summon Monster I to summon a Celestial Porpoise in W10, which proceeds to CdG Shooter for [roll0] damage.
Free: Shift grip to two hands.

Stats:HP 7/7, AC 25 (17, 22) (+2 vs. TP)
PP: 2/2
Psionically focused
TU: 1/11
Active Effects: Force Screen 7 rounds, Shield of Faith 7 rounds, Hatred 7 rounds
Spells:
0th
Virtue
Guidance
Inflict Minor Wounds
1st
Doom
Shield of Faith
Summon Monster I
Done.

[Ganurath]

Team Player

With the other Elan visible, I don't need to spoiler that I'm going after Quork with the Charging Minotaur strike, which allows me to use Stone Power for some temporary hit points since it's a Stone Dragon strike. Thanks for using that swift action, hopefully I'll be able to drop you before you can use Repletion.

Elven:
"With gusto!"

[roll0]
[roll1]

Stats:HP: 13/11
AC: 11 Full, 8 FF, 11 Touch, +3 Dexterity, -2 Charge
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +4, Will -2
Special: Furious Counterstrike, Steely Resolve 5, Martial Spirit

1. Crusader's Strike
2. Vanguard's Strike
3. Stone Bones
4. Charging Minotaur
5. Moment of Perfect Mind

[roll2]

Awaiting opposed check.

Edit: Really?

[Sallera]

Well, I could use it anyway, since immediates are tied to the next turn's swift, rather than the previous one's.

Opposed check: [roll0]

Heh, figures. Using 2pp to reduce the damage to 3, and presumably being pushed back to R12?

[Ganurath]

Given the angle of my approach, I actually figured that Q12 would be where you'd land, not that it matters much. As for the immediate action... *cracks open Complete Adventurer* ...Dammit. Kord, give me strength.

[Sallera]

Oh, yes, now that I look, Q12 it is.

[Ganurath]

Turn Complete, in case it wasn't clear.

[Tanaric]

Which square is TP in currently?

[Ganurath]

The one Quork previously occupied: R11.

[Tanaric]

Smasher, round 5

Move to T-16, fire both rays of LoL at TP.

Attack vs touch: [roll0] for [roll1]
Attack vs touch: [roll2] for [roll3]

Done.

[Sallera]

Quork, Round 5

5ft step to P11.
Move: Sheath spear.
Move: Draw scroll.

Stats:HP 7/7, AC 25 (17, 22) (+2 vs. TP)
PP: 2/2
Psionically focused
TU: 1/11
Active Effects: Force Screen 6 rounds, Shield of Faith 6 rounds, Hatred 6 rounds
Spells:
0th
Virtue
Guidance
Inflict Minor Wounds
1st
Doom
Shield of Faith
Summon Monster I
Done.

[Ganurath]

Ref question:Would I use the Sunder rules to attack Quork's scroll, or the worn/carried object rules since it isn't a weapon or shield? If the latter, do I use the variable AC specified in those rules or the AC of 9 given in the description of scrolls?

[chilepepper]

Ref question:Would I use the Sunder rules to attack Quork's scroll, or the worn/carried object rules since it isn't a weapon or shield? If the latter, do I use the variable AC specified in those rules or the AC of 9 given in the description of scrolls?

High Ref chilepepper

Ganurath
The 3 step Sunder rule is specifically for Weapons and Shields, of which a scroll is neither.
Use:
Sundering a Carried or Worn Object

You don’t use an opposed attack roll to damage a carried or worn object. Instead, just make an attack roll against the object’s AC. A carried or worn object’s AC is equal to 10 + its size modifier + the Dexterity modifier of the carrying or wearing character. Attacking a carried or worn object provokes an attack of opportunity just as attacking a held object does. To attempt to snatch away an item worn by a defender rather than damage it, see Disarm. You can’t sunder armor worn by another character.

edit:
Ganurath
AC = 10 + 4 (size) + opponents Dex mod
The AC 9 listed in scrolls includes -5 for a Dex of 0 since a scroll by itself is inanimate.

Game on.

[Ganurath]

Team Player

I'll move from R11 to R10 to Q9 to P10, then use the Stone Bones manuever to attack the scroll that Quork is holding. RAW, I still get the benefits of my various manuevers regardless of what I'm hitting since it's a melee attack. The healing goes to myself, but shouldn't matter unless the Light of Lumia is adamantium... Or I've fallen out of Kord's favor.

[roll0]
[roll1]

Stats:HP: 8/11
AC: 13 Full, 10 FF, 13 Touch, +3 Dexterity
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +4, Will -2
Special: Furious Counterstrike, Steely Resolve 5, Martial Spirit

1. Crusader's Strike
2. Vanguard's Strike
3. Stone Bones
4. Charging Minotaur
5. Moment of Perfect Mind

Turn Complete.

Edit: Thank Kord!

[Tanaric]

Martial Spirit only applies when you hit an opponent in melee, not when you hit anything. Stone Bones might apply, but that scroll isn't your opponent.

[Ganurath]

Martial Spirit:While you are in this stance, you or an ally within 30ft heals 2 points of damage each time you make a successful melee attack. This healing represents the vigor, drive, and toughness you inspire in others. Your connection to the divine causes such inspiration to have a real, tangible effect on your allies' health.

Each time you hit an opponent in melee, you can choose a different recipient within range to receive this healing.

Conclusion: RAW, hitting stuff always sets the stance off, but I need to hit an opponent to change the benefactor. I'm welcome to a judge ruling on this.

Stone Bones:The Stone Dragon tradition teaches its disciples to shrug off attacks through a combination of mental focus, pure toughness, and resilience. When you make a successful melee attack, you attune your mind and body to such an incredible extent that only the sharpest weapons can injure you. Lesser armaments cause meer bruises and minor cuts.

When you use this manuever, you make a single melee attack. If this attack hits, you gain damage reduction 5/adamantine for 1 round.The word "opponent" doesn't even come up here.

[Tanaric]

On an unrelated note, why would Light of Lunia's damage type matter? It's untyped, but DR only applies to weapons.


A creature with this special quality ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks. Wounds heal immediately, or the weapon bounces off harmlessly (in either case, the opponent knows the attack was ineffective). The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. A certain kind of weapon can sometimes damage the creature normally, as noted below.

[Ganurath]

Ah, a misunderstanding of DR on my part. Let me go edit 3hp off my stats, then.

[hustlertwo]

The Light of Lunia would not be diminished by DR, that's true. Short answer seems to be that if the damage you're taking isn't bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing, DR does not apply. I'm sure there's a longer answer, but that's enough for here. As for the other issue, I looked over the rules for sundering and smashing objects, but while these things require an attack roll, I didn't see anything that classified them as actual melee attacks. If they're a separate action from melee attacks (which appears to be the case), your stance and maneuver would not apply.

You wouldn't use up your maneuver, however; I imagine your turn would be redone, since you probably can't use Stone Bones in a non-melee attack way.

And note that this isn't my official, final position, just putting something out there. If Ganurath can find something to refute this, I'll let the turn stand as stated.

[Ganurath]

Citation (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/dnd35/soveliorsage/specialAttacks.html#sunder)


SUNDER
You can use a melee attack with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon to strike a weapon or shield that your opponent is holding. If you’re attempting to sunder a weapon or shield, follow the steps outlined here. (Attacking held objects other than weapons or shields is covered below.)Bolded for emphasis.


Sundering a Carried or Worn Object: You don’t use an opposed attack roll to damage a carried or worn object. Instead, just make an attack roll against the object’s AC. A carried or worn object’s AC is equal to 10 + its size modifier + the Dexterity modifier of the carrying or wearing character. Attacking a carried or worn object provokes an attack of opportunity just as attacking a held object does. To attempt to snatch away an item worn by a defender rather than damage it, see Disarm. You can’t sunder armor worn by another character.I'm fairly certain that making an attack roll to hit something with a melee weapon qualifies as a melee attack, even by RAW.

[hustlertwo]

Citation (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/dnd35/soveliorsage/specialAttacks.html#sunder)

Bolded for emphasis.

I'm fairly certain that making an attack roll to hit something with a melee weapon qualifies as a melee attack, even by RAW.

The first point would probably be valid. The second, however, I'm not so sure about. By that reckoning, spells that use a melee attack roll (even if they did not actually deal any damage), grapple initiation attempts, all those things would also be regarded as melee attacks. And I'm fairly sure that wouldn't be the case.

[Sallera]

I'm quite certain it counts as a melee attack. It's just directed at a held object. The question at hand is really whether said object counts as an opponent, and if not, whether that prevents Martial Spirit from activating.

[Ganurath]

I'm quite certain it counts as a melee attack. It's just directed at a held object. The question at hand is really whether said object counts as an opponent, and if not, whether that prevents Martial Spirit from activating.In which case we refer to my quotations of the ToB entries on the stance and manuever on Post 46.

[hustlertwo]

No, going by the entries he bolded, if it qualifies as a melee attack, it does seem like it would activate. He simply can't choose to change who is bolstered by the healing. Ditto for Stone Bones, it also goes off.

[Tanaric]

In that case, where was Martial Spirit first directed at TP in this battle? As far as I'm aware, the only damage that's been done has been from a bull rush.

Edit: Bah, ne'er mind. Charging Minotaur explicitly calls it a bull rush attack.

[Tanaric]

Smasher, round whatsit

Double move to R-10.

Done.

[Ganurath]

Buh... But you were... What route did you take to get to R10 from... T16?

Edit: Nevermind, didn't check your speed.

[Sallera]

Luckily, I have a spare.

Quork, Round 6

5ft step to Q12.
Move: Draw scroll.
Standard: Cast from scroll, start glowing, etc.
Free: Drop scroll.

Stats:HP 7/7, AC 25 (17, 22) (+2 vs. TP)
PP: 0/2
Psionically focused
TU: 1/11
Active Effects: Force Screen 5 rounds, Shield of Faith 5 rounds, Hatred 5 rounds
Spells:
0th
Virtue
Guidance
Inflict Minor Wounds
1st
Doom
Shield of Faith
Summon Monster I
Done.

[Ganurath]

Team Player

I'll take a 5ft step to Q9 before taking a swing at Smasher, taking a -1 penalty for Stone Power. "By Kord, vengeance is at hand!"

[roll0]
[roll1]
[roll2]
[roll3]

Stats:HP: 8/11+2temp
AC: 13 Full, 10 FF, 13 Touch, +3 Dexterity
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +4, Will -2
Special: Furious Counterstrike, Steely Resolve 5, Martial Spirit

1. Crusader's Strike
2. Vanguard's Strike
3. Stone Bones
4. Charging Minotaur
5. Moment of Perfect Mind

[roll4]
[roll5]
[roll6]

Turn Complete.

Edit: Note to self: Be grateful for Kord's favor, but don't presume it.

[Tanaric]

Smasher, round whatsit

Return the favor, morningstar style.

[roll0] for [roll1]

Then a 5-ft step into R-11.

Done.

[Sallera]

Quork, Round 7

5ft step to P11.
Standard: Release both rays at TP.
Ranged touch 1: [roll0]
Damage: [roll1]
Ranged touch 2: [roll2]
Damage: [roll3]
Move: Draw spear.

Stats:HP 7/7, AC 23 (15, 20) (+2 vs. TP)
PP: 0/2
Psionically focused
TU: 1/11
Active Effects: Force Screen 4 rounds, Shield of Faith 4 rounds, Hatred 4 rounds
Spells:
0th
Virtue
Guidance
Inflict Minor Wounds
1st
Doom
Shield of Faith
Summon Monster I
Done.

[Ganurath]

Team Player

I took 11 damage total... After temporary HP and Steely Resolve, that's 4 damage up front with 5 coming up. I'll head north to Q6 before heading east and breaking LoS.

Ref/LoS:Kord forgive me, I'll stop in S6 and attack the tree with Stone Bones, using Stone Power for the temporary hit points. Since the first 5 points of damage were from the morningstar, Stone Bones' DR should neutralize the damage from the pool. Martial Spirit healing goes toward my current health.

[roll0]
[roll1]

Stats:HP: 6/11+2temp
AC: 13 Full, 10 FF, 13 Touch, +3 Dexterity
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +4, Will -2
Special: Furious Counterstrike, Steely Resolve 5, Martial Spirit

1. Crusader's Strike
2. Vanguard's Strike
3. Stone Bones
4. Charging Minotaur
5. Moment of Perfect Mind

[roll2]

Turn Complete.

[Tanaric]

Smasher, round whatever

Quork:Smasher points to himself, then makes a counterclockwise circling motion.

Refs/LoS:Spontaneously cast True Strike, losing CLW.

Partial move to R-7

Not done. I can see above the tree you hid behind now, so would you tell me which square you're in?

[Ganurath]

Spoilerific!I'm in S6.

[Tanaric]

Refs/Ganurath:I end in T-6, then. You don't get an AoO for my movement due to me having cover from the tree.

Done.

[Sallera]

Quork, Round 8

Not going to bother spoilering, since I'll end up in sight one way or another.
Partial move to Q7 to look behind tree. *checks spoiler*
Hm. Finish move in R6.
Standard: Stabbity!
Attack: [roll0]
Damage: [roll1]

Stats:HP 7/7, AC 23 (15, 20) (+2 vs. TP)
PP: 0/2
Psionically focused
TU: 1/11
Active Effects: Force Screen 3 rounds, Shield of Faith 3 rounds, Hatred 3 rounds
Spells:
0th
Virtue
Guidance
Inflict Minor Wounds
1st
Doom
Shield of Faith
Summon Monster I
Done.

[Ganurath]

Question? What route did Smasher take to get to T7? I don't want to miss an AoO if I don't have to.

[Tanaric]

I ended in T-6, not T-7. I came directly north of the east side of the tree, which gives me cover to that point.

[Ganurath]

Team Player

Alright... Still standing. Kord, give me what I need. 5ft step to S6, then swing at Smasher with Stone Power for temp hp.

[roll0]
[roll1]
[roll2]
[roll3]

Stats:HP: 6/11, 4/11 if I miss
AC: 13 Full, 10 FF, 13 Touch, +3 Dexterity
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +4, Will -2
Special: Furious Counterstrike, Steely Resolve 5, Martial Spirit

1. Crusader's Strike
2. Vanguard's Strike
3. Stone Bones
4. Charging Minotaur
5. Moment of Perfect Mind

Turn Complete.

Edit: Assuming no AC buffs on Smasher, praise Kord!

[Tanaric]

According to your spoiler, you were already in S6.

Also, according to my calculations, you should be unconscious right now, provided you weren't applying your damage reduction to things that were previously stated to be unaffected by it.

[Ganurath]

Freakin' glove, I meant S5. So, you dropped?

[Tanaric]

Of course not. Immediate action, resistance. 2 pp to negate 4 damage.

I would like to be sure you're actually still alive before I take my turn though.

[Ganurath]

...Disabled. Perfect.

And I am still alive, although the temporary hit points I just picked up were fleeting.

[Tanaric]

To clarify, were you saying that TP is disabled right now, or that you thought Smasher is? Because 11-4 is 7, not 9.

If it's TP, he should be bleeding out from taking a standard action.

[Ganurath]

...I was looking at the wrong sheet. TP is not disabled, though.

[Tanaric]

Smasher, round Let'sEndThis

5ft step to T-5, smack TP with morningstar.

[roll0] for [roll1]

Done.

[Sallera]

Quork, Round 9

5ft step to R5.
Standard: More stabbity!
Attack: [roll0]
Damage: [roll1]

Stats:HP 7/7, AC 23 (15, 20) (+2 vs. TP)
PP: 0/2
Psionically focused
TU: 1/11
Active Effects: Force Screen 2 rounds, Shield of Faith 2 rounds, Hatred 2 rounds
Spells:
0th
Virtue
Guidance
Inflict Minor Wounds
1st
Doom
Shield of Faith
Summon Monster I
Done.

[Ganurath]

Team Player

Kord, thank you for tilting fortune to my favor. Now, I ask the strength to complete the vengeance that I promised my comrade in the arena! 5ft step to R4 before a regular attack with the Stone Power modifier.

[roll0]
[roll1]
[roll2]
[roll3]

Stats:HP: 3/11
AC: 13 Full, 10 FF, 13 Touch, +3 Dexterity
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +4, Will -2
Special: Furious Counterstrike, Steely Resolve 5, Martial Spirit

1. Crusader's Strike
2. Vanguard's Strike
3. Stone Bones
4. Charging Minotaur
5. Moment of Perfect Mind

[roll4]
[roll5]
[roll6]

Turn Complete.

Edit: Frustrated, but still standing.

[Tanaric]

Smasher, round MyMathMustBeOffBecauseYouShouldBeDead

5-ft to T-4, smacky smacky.

[roll0] for [roll1]

Done.

Now are you dead? I couldn't have miscounted that badly.

[Ganurath]

Not dead... Because you don't have reach. There's a letter S between R and T.

[Tanaric]

And now it's my turn to curse my choice of handwear.

I will of course argue that since you took your "Whoops, I meant to actually be there, of course", I should get mine too.

And if you won't abide by that, then I'm afraid I have to call a ref to review your HP math, since I tallied the damage again and you shouldn't be alive anyway barring shenanigans.

[Sallera]

Quork, Round 10

Don't make me bring out another porpoise.

5ft step to Q4.
Standard: Stabbitystabbitywhyisn'titdeadyetstab.
Attack: [roll0]
Damage: [roll1]

Stats:HP 7/7, AC 23 (15, 20) (+2 vs. TP)
PP: 0/2
Psionically focused
TU: 1/11
Active Effects: Force Screen 1 round, Shield of Faith 1 round, Hatred 1 round
Spells:
0th
Virtue
Guidance
Inflict Minor Wounds
1st
Doom
Shield of Faith
Summon Monster I
Done.

[Ganurath]

Ah, but my mistake was an illegal move. Yours was meerly tactically unsound.

Edit: I don't mind a ref being called in to check my math. I'll use the time to count the rounds since Quork cast those minute buffs, see if I should change targets.

[Tanaric]

In that case, should Quork's attack not kill you, I'm requesting a pause while a ref reviews your HP calculations. You don't have rageclaws or the like. You should be dead unless you're applying Stone Bones to things it can't apply to.

[hustlertwo]

Yeah, that would be technically true. Ganurath couldn't 5 foot to a space he was already in. But, there's nothing illegal with 5 footing and attacking nothingness. Not sure what the rules are as far as keeping your rolls after changing your turn, it's always been an iffy greyish area from what I've seen. If you pressed the point, it's possible Ganurath would have had to reroll his attack, since his turn had changed. But, no offense to Team Player's valiant effort here, I really doubt that'll be necessary.

And Tan, I believe his HP calculations are on the level. There was some behind-the-scenes rules lawyering that, to me, means we need to change the reference to Mavianesque in the Waiting Room to be Ganurathian instead. Long story short, I don't know if he stands after Quork's strike, but I believe he did before it.

[Tanaric]

I don't believe in such unsporting behavior, Hustler. I knew where he wanted to be, he knew where I wanted to be. I understand not wanting to die, but it doesn't matter.

People will do what they must.

Edit: Wow, that sounded snarky. I was referring to myself, not Ganurath.

Editedit: Not if he's doing what I think he's doing, Hustler. You can't apply damage reduction to the delayed damage pool. It's untyped damage. Neither damage reduction nor energy resistance protects you from it.

[Sallera]

At any rate, doesn't Quork's last attack finish him off regardless?

[Ganurath]

Ah, so that's the source of your confusion. Steely Resolve. That last attack only dealt 2, but I'll be taking 5 later. So, any further objections, or shall I commence with the violence?

[Tanaric]

Steely Resolve is not weapon damage. Damage Reduction does not apply to it.

I believe you should have been down earlier, when I first mentioned it.

[hustlertwo]

Oh, wait, nevermind, the lawyering wasn't behind the scenes. Y'all saw all the stuff about him being able to heal by attacking random objects. I see this isn't due to the temp HP, but the other thing. Don't have the book for that, so I can't weigh in.

[Tanaric]

Even if he randomly stabbed the ground out of sight for 2 hp, he should still have dropped before this point unless he's applying DR to the delayed damage pool.

[Ganurath]

Editedit: Not if he's doing what I think he's doing, Hustler. You can't apply damage reduction to the delayed damage pool. It's untyped damage. Neither damage reduction nor energy resistance protects you from it.Wait, what? *cracks open ToB* Hmm... Well, according to your quote on DR earlier, extraordinary abilities like Steely Resolve are still fair game.

[Tanaric]

Unfortunately for TP, Steely Resolve is untyped damage. It is not affected by DR.

Which is what I've been saying this whole time.

It's just "Pow. Take this damage."

It's not physical. You can't apply DR to it.

It's not energy. You can't apply resistances to it.

[hustlertwo]

Sorry Tan, you'll have to put out the call for another high ref, or Kyeudo, on that one. Can't rule on something out of the SRD.

[Tanaric]

Should Ganurath choose to argue the point further, I will. A reading of both entries should suffice to convince anyone, however.

[hustlertwo]

Were it not for using this to establish precedent so no one else tries to apply DR to delayed damage, I'd say the matter could be easiest solved by continuing the fight as if TP still stood, since if he falls anyhow, the issue would become moot. But as things are now, I imagine this one ends in litigation, and likely a retroactive death for TP. Although his rule fu has been rather strong up to this point, so I won't count him out yet. Healing through vandalism was an inspired choice.

[Ganurath]

Citation (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/dnd35/soveliorsage/abilitiesAndConditions.html)


DAMAGE REDUCTION
Some magic creatures have the supernatural ability to instantly heal damage from weapons or to ignore blows altogether as though they were invulnerable.

The numerical part of a creature’s damage reduction is the amount of hit points the creature ignores from normal attacks. Usually, a certain type of weapon can overcome this reduction. This information is separated from the damage reduction number by a slash. Damage reduction may be overcome by special materials, by magic weapons (any weapon with a +1 or higher enhancement bonus, not counting the enhancement from masterwork quality), certain types of weapons (such as slashing or bludgeoning), and weapons imbued with an alignment. If a dash follows the slash then the damage reduction is effective against any attack that does not ignore damage reduction.

Ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an enhancement bonus of +1 or higher is treated as a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Similarly, ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an alignment gains the alignment of that projectile weapon (in addition to any alignment it may already have).

Whenever damage reduction completely negates the damage from an attack, it also negates most special effects that accompany the attack, such as injury type poison, a monk’s stunning, and injury type disease. Damage reduction does not negate touch attacks, energy damage dealt along with an attack, or energy drains. Nor does it affect poisons or diseases delivered by inhalation, ingestion, or contact.

Attacks that deal no damage because of the target’s damage reduction do not disrupt spells.

Spells, spell-like abilities, and energy attacks (even nonmagical fire) ignore damage reduction.

Sometimes damage reduction is instant healing. Sometimes damage reduction represents the creature’s tough hide or body. In either case, characters can see that conventional attacks don’t work.

If a creature has damage reduction from more than one source, the two forms of damage reduction do not stack. Instead, the creature gets the benefit of the best damage reduction in a given situation.Bolded the only part of that entry that covers what bypasses DR. Tanaric posted something from an uncited source on page 3 that goes into more detail on what ignores DR.

In both cases, extraordinary abilities wasn't on the list. Steely Resolve is an extraordinary ability.

[Tanaric]

You're missing the point.

Steely Resolve does not deal physical damage. It deals untyped damage. It does not deal X points of slashing damage. Or bludgeoning. Or piercing. Nor does it act as if it were a weapon made of a certain material.

It does not deal electric damage. It does not deal sonic damage.

It deals untyped damage.

But no matter. I am as good as my word. Putting in a call to the Kyeudo hotline, since it's the only way things will end, I'm sure.

[hustlertwo]

You're missing the point.

Steely Resolve does not deal physical damage. It deals untyped damage. It does not deal X points of slashing damage. Or bludgeoning. Or piercing. Nor does it act as if it were a weapon made of a certain material.

It does not deal electric damage. It does not deal sonic damage.

It deals untyped damage.

But no matter. I am as good as my word. Putting in a call to the Kyeudo hotline, since it's the only way things will end, I'm sure.

Does anyone else get a bit of a Dr. Seuss vibe from this post? It makes me see this whole exchange as a bizarre Green Eggs and Ham sort of scenario. "Would it, could it, block the pain?" "It cannot, will not save your brain."

Yeah, as you can see, I'm out of helpful suggestions. Although the first person to do LoS for round 75, I might go ahead and just rule in your favor.

Although I won't.

[Tanaric]

I don't believe I've ever read that particular Seuss book, Hustler. Though it does seem appropriate given the circumstances, yes. :smalltongue:

[Ganurath]

I was counting Sallera's rounds and something came to my attention that may render this discussion moot, if the answer to this question is anything but what I think it is:

What does Chronocharm of the Uncaring Archmage do?

[Tanaric]

It allows you to cast a 1-round spell as a standard action once per day.

[Ganurath]

Exactly what I thought it did. The debate rages on!

[Tanaric]

For the record, I'd be willing to attempt to finish the fight first to see if the argument is worth rehashing with Kyeudo, but you've proven your willingness to fight in what is - in my opinion - an unsporting manner. To that end, I want to win this in as clean and precise a manner as possible.

It's a pity it comes down to butting heads over rules, but so be it.

[Ganurath]

I'm not trying to be unsporting, I'm trying to do the best I can with limited resources. That being said... Upon review of my own quote of the SRD data on damage reduction, I'll concede the point on the grounds of the wording of the first paragraph. Evidently I overlooked it because I was too busy looking for proof I was right to see proof I was wrong.

[Tanaric]

In that case, I salute the fallen, and offer the following obligatory link. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0077.html)

[Kyeudo]

GM Kyeudo

Damage reduction applies to any non-energy damage generated by any source other than spells and spell-like abilities (and, by extention of the transparency rules, by powers and psi-like abilities).

The damage caused by a Crusader's delayed damage pool is apparently untyped damage, so it is not energy damage.

It is caused by an Extordinary ability, so it was not caused by a spell or spell-like ability.

Therefore, Damage Reduction rightly applies to the damage.

[Ganurath]

...Apparently that first paragraph of the SRD was updated.

...Sorry Tanaric.

[Tanaric]

What.

Insert slack jawed wonderment here while I dig up the relevant text to (unfortunately) argue that point.

You know what, nevermind. Kyeudo has spoken.

My last turn was illegal as of my standard action, since I couldn't attack TP. Requesting a rewind to the point after my 5-ft step.

Three cheers for stabbing the ground for health and applying DR to damage twice.

For the record, untyped damage is not physical. I won't bother trying to argue the point now, but once the match ends - however it ends - there will be lawyering to avoid double DR.

[Ganurath]

I have no objection to the rewind.

For the record, I slashed the tree. The arena features are fair game, but striking at the arena itself would be blasphemous!

[Tanaric]

Edit: I'm civil. I'm calm.

Turn coming shortly.

[Ganurath]

I actually did make an attack roll, it ws in the spoiler because it wasn't until after I broke LoS. I rolled a 19, as the judges may attest. Between Size and Dexterity, it'd need some pretty hefty Natural Armor for that to miss.Spoilered, since you're civil.

[Tanaric]

I was praying for a 1. You'd hit on everything but.

I edited it out since I didn't want the match to degenerate into that, but oh well.

If I wanted to be pedantic, I could say I should have seen the mark on the tree. :smalltongue:

[Tanaric]

For my redone turn, I ready an action instead of attacking pointlessly.

Refs:Bash him if he comes within 5 feet.

I imagine Sallera's turn stands.

[hustlertwo]

Again, from a purely technical standpoint, you wouldn't get a rewind for the round where you failed to get within range of him to attack. But since he conceded it, rock and roll.

And yes, it can be argued that exploiting rule foibles is dishonorable. Then again, you're fighting a guy 2 on 1. So it's probably all subjective. Personally, I simultaneously find Ganurath's frequent attempts at sniffing out rule weak spots amusingly inspired, and annoying. But like he said, it's what he had to work with. His chance of victory are already slight indeed. Why should he willingly reduce them further by not covering all the angles, however ludicrous some might be?

[Kyeudo]

GM Kyeudo

I hate the Rules Compendium. It's errata that you have to pay for, so I don't have it, but it officiall trumps every other source. Why do we even have the SRD? *grumble grumble* :smallannoyed:

If the Rules Compendium does restrict what type of attacks DR can apply to down to just weapons, natural weapons, and unarmed strikes, then Tanaric is correct that the damage from Steely Resolve would bypass DR.

[Ganurath]

My apologies for wasting folk's time, then. One last swing at fighting back before I conceed the match:

Tanaric: What exact route did you take to get from where you established LoS to T7 to avoid AoOs? I'm still a fair bit confused as to how that worked, mainly because I don't know where LoS was established.

[Tanaric]

Up the east side of the tree. You were in S-6 according to you, which means I have cover from the tree to that point. You cannot execute an AoO against a foe with cover relative to yourself.

Incidentally,


Again, from a purely technical standpoint, you wouldn't get a rewind for the round where you failed to get within range of him to attack. But since he conceded it, rock and roll.

I couldn't attack him from where I was. My standard action in that round was illegal. I didn't ask for a rewind to redo my movement, merely to take an appropriate standard action.

[Ganurath]

Here's the thing: You said you had view of the north side of it when you asked for my position. I was tired, so I rolled with it, but I don't see how you could have had that without already being where you said you moved to.

[Tanaric]

I was in T-7 at the time. I could see the squares across the north side of the post that I could not see when you moved. I then moved north to T-6.

Yes, you had cover from me in those squares. If you had made a hide check, I shouldn't have been able to see you, but as I moved north and made cover moot, it wouldn't have mattered five seconds from when I asked.

Edit: *snort* I just popped my own spoiler, and that would have been an illegal action had I not said where I actually meant to be. My movement says R-7, which is a post square, and not one I can enter. Since the only thing a rewind would change is me typing T-7, same as I've been doing this whole time, nothing changes.

For the record, the T looks far too much like an R on this map.

You want an exact detailing of my movement? Fine.

R-11 > Diagonal to T-9 > North to T-7 > North to T-6

I trust this clears up any confusion?

[Ganurath]

It does indeed clear up the confusion. For the record, a Crusader of Kord does not hide.

[Tanaric]

Which is why I didn't bother with a spot check. It wouldn't have made much sense to try hiding there.

Now that that's settled, match call?

[hustlertwo]

Shooter had no idea how lucky he was to get to die early...Lil' Smasher and Quork win the day!