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View Full Version : PrC Contest XVI: Voting Thread:FINAL VOTING, Vote now!



ErrantX
2010-02-01, 05:00 PM
It's that time again, where we vote on our favorite PrC from Contest XVI: Live and Die by the Sword (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136489).

This time, however, it's different.

We have 26 entries! That's seriously 15+ more than we usually have had in the past, incredible! Awesome!

With this in mind, we're going to have you vote for your favorite THREE classes, and then we'll do a vote for those. So, vote vote vote your hearts out. Voting for the first heat closes on the 8th, 2nd heat for the finalists will close on the 12th. Get everyone to vote! I want this thread to be three pages long!

It was a long, difficult battle but the winner is Djinn_In_Tonic with the Unfettered Knight! Congrats Djinn!

Final Voting:
{table=head]Class|Author|Voties
Ninja of the Golden Eclipse|Xallace|5
Voidblade Eliminator|Lord_Gareth|7
Unfettered Knight|Djinn_In_Tonic|10[/table]

First Vote Results: Djinn 1st, Lord Gareth 2nd, and Xallace 3rd.
{table=head]Class|Author|Votes
Ninja of the Golden Eclipse (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7590594&postcount=3)|Xallace|8
The Lancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7590717&postcount=4)|Kira the 5th|0
Combat Opportunist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7591111&postcount=5)|Dangerprawn|2
Dynamist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7594031&postcount=7)|Random_Person|0
Voidblade Eliminator (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7594564&postcount=8)|Lord_Gareth|11
White Lion Knight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7599912&postcount=9)|Golden-esque|6
Underdog (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7600251&postcount=10)|Eurus|1
Phantom (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7600333&postcount=11)|DeskChairLamp|2
White Raven Commander (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7603979&postcount=12)|Arbitrarious|2
Dashing Swordsman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7613406&postcount=13)|Boomwolf|0
Master of Perception (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7620385&postcount=14)|Origomar|0
Protector (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7640476&postcount=16)|Vaynor|0
Knight of the Grave (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7653119&postcount=17)|JoshuaZ|1
Cavalier of Raedria (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7655935&postcount=18)|dawnsolara|0
Naked Knight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7661877&postcount=19)|DaTedinator|7
Leap (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7665584&postcount=20) Dragoon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7665591&postcount=21)|DracoDei|1
The Bound (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7666186&postcount=22)|DragoonWraith|7
SssSsSss (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7666926&postcount=23)|Glimbur|2
Ghost Blade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7666978&postcount=24)|Owrtho|1
Grammaton Cleric (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7667627&postcount=25)|Hyooz|0
Sagesword (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7718894&postcount=28)|Lvl45DM!|0
Eldritch Sword (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7759893&postcount=30)|A.J.Gibson|0
Deathbringer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7761235&postcount=31)|Latronis|2
Unfettered Knight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7781093&postcount=32)|Djinn_In_Tonic|17
Bloodbow (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7792038&postcount=33)|Kerleth|0
Drunken Master (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7794037&postcount=34)|FlamingKobold|2[/table]

-X

Xallace
2010-02-01, 05:21 PM
Naked Knight, Drunken Master, and Unfettered Knight for sure.
It was a darn tough decision though.

FlamingKobold
2010-02-01, 05:22 PM
Note: My name isn't DrunkenKobold :smallsmile:

Can contestants vote? If so, Leap Dragoon, The Bound and Unfettered Knight. They're all so awesome, with the Voidblade eliminator as my fourth.

I'm going to predict right now that the Unfettered Knight will end up winning.

ErrantX
2010-02-01, 05:23 PM
Note: My name isn't DrunkenKobold :smallsmile:

Can contestants vote? If so, Leap Dragoon, The Bound and Unfetterred Knight. They're all so awesome, with the Voidblade eliminator as my fourth.

Just making sure you're, umm, paying attention. Yes.

And yes, please vote.

-X

Glimbur
2010-02-01, 05:25 PM
I'd like to vote for...

Naked Knight.

The Bound.

Unfettered Knight.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-02-01, 05:25 PM
The Djinn's Top Three
The Voidblade Eliminator: Good flavor, and strongly executed with Lord Gareth's typical mix of creative genius and mechanical strength. Took the Soulknife in an interesting and--dare I say it?--competitively balanced direction.
The Bound: A wonderfully evocative flavor, backed up by great ability names, interesting powers, and a tie in with a well made and intriguing homebrewed martial discipline.
The Naked Knight: Humorous concept (and great flavor quote) compressed into three levels of abilities that capture the essence of the idea, while making a class that joke characters and serious characters alike can benefit from. I figured it would be a gimmick, but, after reading it, I must say that I can see it getting a lot of use, and adding greatly to the role of the unarmored warrior.
That said, there's some excellent work in this contest! I hope to see you all back for future competitions!

The Tygre
2010-02-01, 06:12 PM
I cast my votes to:

Voidblade Eliminator

Deathbringer

Unfettered Knight

And Errant, I think it goes without saying that this has been the single most successful Prestige Class Contest on these boards, EVER. Good show! :smallcool:

JoshuaZ
2010-02-01, 06:28 PM
Only 3 choices? Hmm.

Ninja of the Golden Sun

Voidblade Eliminator

Last one is going to to be an almost toss-up between the

White Lion Knight and the Leap Dragoon. I'm going to go for the

White Lion Knight

ErrantX
2010-02-01, 07:48 PM
Could we get the class names turned into links (except for mine, which shouldn't have the name itself be a link, but rather have "Part 1, Part 2" as links on the same line with it).

More or less.

-X

Darkfire2210
2010-02-01, 07:50 PM
I'm going to go with the Drunken Master, Ninja of the Golden Eclipse and Phantom. But all were very well done.

Latronis
2010-02-01, 11:18 PM
Surprisingly difficult to narrow it down to 3.

Were it a single vote for the win I'd choose Naked Knight

Also Drunken Master and White Lion Knight

DaTedinator
2010-02-02, 12:11 AM
As has been stated by everyone else, very difficult to narrow it down. The ones I think I'll end up going with though (in alphabetical order):

Combat Opportunist: It's fun, it's flavorful, and it fills a niche that has been curiously empty. It's probably a bit longer than it needed to be, but it stays interesting all 10 levels.

Ninja of the Golden Eclipse: It does a really good job at merging two seemingly disparate concepts: ninjas, and a sun god. The abilities are unique yet still simple. I could totally see myself playing one of these.

Unfettered Knight: This one gets my vote almost for the concept alone. I don't know that I would've implemented it the same way, but it's really a fantastic idea. This is not to imply that it's poor implementation at all, as it's nicely balanced (despite first appearances), and full of interesting, useful abilities.

Plenty of fantastic classes here. People should keep up the good work!

zagan
2010-02-02, 03:33 AM
Lot of choice this time, that's great. So my vote go to:

Vote 1: Ninja of the Golden Eclipse. I just love hte flavor and the ability are really cool.

Vote 2: White Lion Knight. Again the flavor his great, the ability are nice and I realy like cat.

Vote 3: SssSsSss. Class well done, not too powerfull, not too weak. And I love Incarnum, we don't see enough of it.

krko
2010-02-02, 07:00 AM
Voting for:

Unfettered Knight

Voidblade Eliminator

Combat Opportunist

DragoonWraith
2010-02-02, 11:29 AM
Jeeeez, so many!

Anyway, I'll vote for Ninja of the Golden Eclipse, Phantom, and, of course, Unfettered Knight. I don't think you'll be giving out any signatures this time, Djinn, that's awesome.

But man, so many deserving entries. Seriously. In your standard 6 or 7 entry contest, I could see like half this list winning if it wasn't against the others.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-02-02, 12:17 PM
I don't think you'll be giving out any signatures this time, Djinn, that's awesome.

Always glad to hear people like my work! That said, if not this time, that little reward will still be around until I am finally overthrown. :smalltongue:

Don't cut yourself short though...The Bound are pretty freakin' awesome, as are many of the other entries here. I've never felt less confident about my chances of winning this contest. :smallbiggrin:

Also, right here and now, I'd like to heartily commend everyone in this contest for making it the best contest we've had yet. The number of entries is staggering, and the number of quality entries is equally staggering.

Dante & Vergil
2010-02-02, 01:47 PM
I vote for the Voidblade Eliminator, the Deathbringer, and the Unfettered Knight, though the pictures for the last two, while not bad, could be better, but that's my opinion.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-02-02, 01:50 PM
I vote for the Voidblade Eliminator, the Deathbringer, and the Unfettered Knight, though the pictures for the last two, while not bad, could be better, but that's my opinion.

You'd be surprised how hard it is to find a picture of a paladin who is recognizable as once human, but now takes the form of raw positive energy and holy light. I spent hours trying to find a better one, but to no avail.

Yes, it did bother me that much. :smallfrown:

DragoonWraith
2010-02-02, 02:24 PM
You'd be surprised how hard it is to find a picture of a paladin who is recognizable as once human, but now takes the form of raw positive energy and holy light. I spent hours trying to find a better one, but to no avail.

Yes, it did bother me that much. :smallfrown:
You don't even want to know what I went through for that image of the Bound. Searching "chains" on Deviant Art is an... interesting experience (not recommended for workplaces).

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-02-02, 02:27 PM
You don't even want to know what I went through for that image of the Bound. Searching "chains" on Deviant Art is an... interesting experience (not recommended for workplaces).

Good sir, before I settled on the Unfettered Knight, I looked up Whips and Chains (and a variety of other weapons, but that's not the point) on both DeviantArt and Google in hopes of an inspiring picture. I know the situation all to well.

DragoonWraith
2010-02-02, 02:38 PM
I am so sorry for you. I didn't even touch whips, though I did check Google. DevianTart was worse, IIRC.

Though, now I have to ask because it struck me as likely earlier: I notice that anyone qualifying for Unfettered Knight's fluff requirement also qualifies for the Bound's. There's something of a similar theme going on there, so I'm curious - was the Bound a source of inspiration on that? The fact that you looked up chains sort of implies that this was the case, so I'm curious.

If so, I'm unbelievably flattered!

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-02-02, 02:50 PM
I am so sorry for you. I didn't even touch whips, though I did check Google. DevianTart was worse, IIRC.

Though, now I have to ask because it struck me as likely earlier: I notice that anyone qualifying for Unfettered Knight's fluff requirement also qualifies for the Bound's. There's something of a similar theme going on there, so I'm curious - was the Bound a source of inspiration on that? The fact that you looked up chains sort of implies that this was the case, so I'm curious.

If so, I'm unbelievably flattered!

I'm sorry to say that's not the case. That's a case of strange coincidence. I didn't actually read through the Bound until after I had finished the Unfettered Knight. That said, a Paladin/Bound/Unfettered Knight would make for an interesting character...especially given the dual themes of chains and freedom...

DragoonWraith
2010-02-02, 03:20 PM
Aw, that's OK.

But yes, yes it absolutely would.

Lord_Gareth
2010-02-02, 04:27 PM
White Lion Knight, Unfettered Knight, and The Bound.

DragoonWraith
2010-02-02, 04:47 PM
Voidblade Eliminator
Hey, I appreciate your vote, but...

Anyways, I would like to raise back an old question that might become necessary now that we have many contestants-should one be allowed to vote for himself?

I personally vote for a no here.
As much as I normally think the smaller contests we've had in the past people have voted for the class they felt was best, even if it was not theirs, in this contest... I'm actually becoming inclined to agree. You bring up a good point Boomwolf. What say the rest of you?
I've never voted for my own entry, as I felt it was unsporting (and of course I wasn't sure whether it was allowed). I'm all for disallowing it.
I'm against voting for your own work, for pretty much all the same reasons already listed, especially when we've got so many contestants.
I feel like a win means more if it's from your fellow 'brewers, so I think it's better to have us vote for not-our-own.
I'm gonna say no self voting. It just feels like it's in bad taste.

Agi Hammerthief
2010-02-02, 04:57 PM
UNDERDOG
Combat Opportunist
Unfettered Knight

FlamingKobold
2010-02-02, 05:31 PM
1. I was totally right about the unfettered knight going to win. Just saying :smalltongue:

2. Right now, for a game in real life, I'm making a paladin whose final build is Paladin/Bound/Unfettered Knight. I'm wondering, DW and Djinn especially, are there any races, feats, dips, etc that you would suggest? I know I need martial study to qualify for the Bound, and prereqs of course, but what else?

DragoonWraith
2010-02-02, 05:36 PM
Well, as a Paladin, I assume you're not going the Dex route. You can use Chthonic Grip instead of Improved Grapple, if you wanted, that gives some advantages and avoids the Int 13 requirement of Improved Grapple (though I think for most uses Improved Grapple is probably better). Yeah, hrm. Not really, I don't really know what would be best. Heh, Shape Soulmeld (Kraken whatever-it's-called) for the Grapple bonus? And an appropriate Open Chakra feat? *shrug*

Schylerwalker
2010-02-02, 05:36 PM
Unfettered Knight, Knight of the Grave, Voidblade Eliminator.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-02-02, 05:41 PM
1. I was totally right about the unfettered knight going to win. Just saying :smalltongue:

2. Right now, for a game in real life, I'm making a paladin whose final build is Paladin/Bound/Unfettered Knight. I'm wondering, DW and Djinn especially, are there any races, feats, dips, etc that you would suggest? I know I need martial study to qualify for the Bound, and prereqs of course, but what else?

First off, I'd recommend a Martial Paladin variant, if you can slide it by the DM. Since you'll be fighting with your chains, consider the Combat Reflexes and Improved Trip chains. Aside from that, build for a chain-fighting Martial Adept, as the Unfettered Knight really just adds the icing on the cake. Definitely consider postponing at least one of your potential Martial Study feats for 18th level, or you'll lack you highest levels of maneuvers (which may be about level 7-8). Remember that your martial strikes get more bang for your buck against Evil creatures, as your attacks might also stun them.

Also, although I don't normally recommend this, consider taking Whirlwind Attack or other powerful area attacks. Your Victory Assured and Aura of Inimitable Sanctity abilities trigger each time you hit a new foe, so striking as many evil opponents as possible will make you the most invulnerable, and even enable you to do mass battlefield control (via large amounts of stunning).

FlamingKobold
2010-02-02, 05:50 PM
Fast and good responses. Awesome.

The DM has okayed martial rangers and bards, so I bet he'll let me use a martial paladin. I'm pretty sure I've seen one on these boards, and will go look for it, but anyone who happens to have a link would be awesome :smallsmile:

About the area things: yeah, sounds like a plan. I'll be able to get more area control a lot easier, as the DM has a slightly different whirlwind feet and sweeping strike. I'm thinking of going human for the super awesome feat. Thanks for the advice :smallsmile:

DragoonWraith
2010-02-02, 06:26 PM
Whirlwind Lash is a great Chthonic Serpent maneuver to take, like Whirlwind Attack except Trip attempts (which I think you can do with Whirlwind Attack anyway, but you don't burn what, six feats this way?), as are boosts if you're going to get attacks like that. Death's Embrace is actually probably a bit overpowered (as in, I've been seriously considering changing it), but if your DM OKs it, that is a great boost, blinding everyone you can hit is awesome. And, well, Reap the Whirlwind is just awesome (free full attack on a successful trip? +1 attack because of Improved Trip? Oh yes.)

Xzoltar
2010-02-02, 11:39 PM
Lord_Gareth - Voidblade Eliminator
Dersess - Silver Sword Mageslayer
DragoonWraith - The Bound

Wow that was hard this month, however as I have already use all those 3 PrC in my game I cast my vote on them. Next week im gonna test Unfettered Knight from Djinn_In_Tonic.

Good Luck everyone and thanks again awesome work !

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-02-03, 01:20 AM
Wow that was hard this month, however as I have already use all those 3 PrC in my game I cast my vote on them. Next week im gonna test Unfettered Knight from Djinn_In_Tonic.

Mind letting me know when you do? I'd be interested to see how it worked out, what the experience was like character-wise and gameplay-wise, and what, if anything, needs revising.

Latronis
2010-02-03, 03:34 AM
Unfettered Knight didn't make it into my shortlist because i felt like it tried to take over too much of the character for something that is so specific (even if a fairly momentous event) I felt that the concept and mechanics would've matched up better with a 3 level prc.

Not because I want the signature (though i must admit that the thought did cross my mind before i read any of the entries :smallbiggrin:)

BigBadBugbear
2010-02-03, 03:38 AM
I'd like to vote for...

Naked Knight.

The Bound.

Unfettered Knight.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-02-03, 08:57 AM
Unfettered Knight didn't make it into my shortlist because i felt like it tried to take over too much of the character for something that is so specific (even if a fairly momentous event) I felt that the concept and mechanics would've matched up better with a 3 level prc.

I did try this originally, but felt the end result was a bit lacking. The change is such a character-defining one that my philosophy on prestige class style said that a mere three levels might leave it somewhat short.

It's also intended for the Paladin (where the last 5 levels are very lacking, and few Prestige classes can make up the difference) and the Knight (where the last 5 levels, while decent, are more than made up for), so I wasn't to concerned about the length, as long as I didn't spill above 5 levels.

Regardless, you do have a valid point. Just wanted to say that I did consider that, and did try it, but found that it diluted the concept and made it seems a little to meaningless and last-minute.


Not because I want the signature (though i must admit that the thought did cross my mind before i read any of the entries :smallbiggrin:)

Heh. I'm on to your game, Latronis. I see what you're doing. :smalltongue:

DragoonWraith
2010-02-03, 09:25 AM
Wow that was hard this month, however as I have already use all those 3 PrC in my game I cast my vote on them.
Oooh! How'd the Bound go?


Unfettered Knight didn't make it into my shortlist because i felt like it tried to take over too much of the character for something that is so specific (even if a fairly momentous event) I felt that the concept and mechanics would've matched up better with a 3 level prc.
That's interesting, I never really considered that position. That said... I dunno, it seems to work as a five-level. *shrug*

ErrantX
2010-02-03, 10:30 AM
Votes have been tallied, keep em coming!

-X

Lord_Gareth
2010-02-03, 11:27 AM
Heck, for that matter, how'd the Eliminators handle out?

Xzoltar
2010-02-03, 03:18 PM
Regarding all feedback I give, in our game we only have 12 classes and all of them have received major revision. Almost no Prestige Class exist and those that do are from special organisation and require intense roleplay to get in.

Feedback: The Bound
So the character was a Barbarian that was taken from is Tribe and put under magical control of a Evil Necromancer. Now fee he serve another master who help impose Law around the nation. Excluding more fluff, here's my comments on the prestige class :

- Chains that Bind in my game Barbarian have no armor but better damage reduction, so this provide the barbarian a good boost of AC. The Grapple bonus however was really big as Str and Con of the character we're high already when you add 10 from class level, it give no chance to anyone that want to try to escape.
- Bound in Iron was of no use (barbarian was already immune to fear , charm and compulsion effects), so I gave him 12+Class level Spell Resistance instead, it never block any of the party spells as it was a little low even with that +2 boost.
- Chains of Regret wasn't put into use as none of the party had that kind of damage reduction.
- Bound by Sorrow Grapple was already so strong that with no magic being able to help and another bonus to grapple from size increase make it now impossible to resist.
- Chains of Honor was put to use before the PCs talk to the Master, so was a nice thing for that encounter.
- Bound by Oath This have Neutralized a Character for some times that help the Barbarian play with other PCs, was use with Bound by Fate also.
- Unbreakable Chains This was one of the main source of damage but I dont think it was too much even with chains of destiny.
- Bound In Blood beeing able to have 2 stance at once have help a lot and this give him lot more versatility than if it had to only rely on one.
- Chains of Destiny see under
- Bound by Fate see under.

So in conclusion the class itself was pretty good, powerful with grapple rules and doing heavy damage, it was able to neutralized several foes at once. The inclusion of Maneuver from Chthonic Serpent together with ome other have made good combinaison of power. The big weakness was that the PCs decide to Heat the Metal from the chain so the Barbarian had to suffer or remove them. That was neutralized by a good Dispel Magic, however after a couples of round, the Fighter of the group succesfully Sunder the chains and without chain it lose lot of his power. even with another stack of chain it take too much time to place it back to rely on this in combat as I ruled that it took as much time as putting a armor (if the chain are just put on your shoulder not sure that this will be of any help), the time to put the chain on could be a good thing to add (unless I didnt see it in the text)

Beside that everything seem fine but maybe reduce the grapple bonus to half class level or even remove it completly, because 10 + Con Bonus + Size Increase that's a lot. The biggest tool from the Bound for me is Bound by Sorrows, because usally our spellcaster rely on Freedom of Movement to neutralized Grappler. Its needed by the Class, so I don't think it will be a good idea to remove it, but it could be a capstone ability. but as it is I love it that way.

Xzoltar
2010-02-03, 03:33 PM
My vote for Dersess - Silver Sword Mageslayer seem to have no value as it wasn't finish and wasn't include in the final voting thread, so I will give my vote now to Djinn_In_Tonic. - Unfettered Knight.

ErrantX
2010-02-03, 03:44 PM
My vote for Dersess - Silver Sword Mageslayer seem to have no value as it wasn't finish and wasn't include in the final voting thread, so I will give my vote now to Djinn_In_Tonic. - Unfettered Knight.

Gotcha.

-X

Xzoltar
2010-02-03, 04:03 PM
Feedback: Voidblade Eliminator

A Monk (in my game you choose your specialisation and Soulknife was this mink specialisation) at the Head of a Divine Slayer Organisation that Hunt Cleric and Outsider to kill them. They opposed the God and this Organisation is the most feared organsiation by all Divine Spellcaster or Servants.

Lower level member of that organisation got used to oppose the PCs as well as some Silversword Mageslayer.

Voidblade and Hungering Blade 5d6 Damage with multi-attacks is a lot , doing it as touch attack have hurt a lot the Tank of the group because is armor was of almost no help. Not being able to cast defensively have help even if caster try to stay away from the Voidblade.

Rip with Nothing This have help a lot here and its really a strong boost to help fight those that protect spellcaster.

Trapfinding was of no use in thoses encounters.

Absent Body I really love this ability, it help a lot the organisation to not get located by Divine Caster that search for them and also the NPCs wasnt able that way to find the Voidblade who have flee the scene.

Slice the Mind That was another big damage to the Party, losing spells from the Spellcasting attribute loss have reduce their power by a lot.

Dispelling Strike At first it was never able to Dispel Anything, so was change to stack Voidblade with Monk (or Soulknife in others game) levels. Now was of better use and have help, removing now only buff from the party but other effects such as Magic Wall.

Shed Spell Really nice ablity, save the day against a spell that had the Voidblade Freeze in time while the party buff themself and cure. Seeing the Voidblade come and attack them was nice.

Strike with Naught Was unexpected from the spellcaster and this have help taking care of them and other party members at the same time.

Bite the Soul and Devour the Soul This ability have also damage a lot caster that already was weakened by Slice the Mind.

Hollow Mind and Ripper Gift With so many ability that may require Focus this have help the Voidblade to do more with less.

Armor of Absence After using Shed Spell one of the party spellcaster was trying to recover using a Time Stop. He was really dissapointed to see the Voidblade attack him...

Consumming Blade Bane on all attack was Ice on the Cake and was another large source of damage.

One with Naught This ability was not used because it goes against the Organisation who hunt outsider.

So to resume the class was really fun to play and now one of the character is trying to be accepted in the organisation. This have enough ability to be useful in many situation and not just in combat. This do enough damage to be competitive and this Prestige Class do is job at helping slay Spellcaster. This got is place in the small amount of Prestige Class in my world.

DragoonWraith
2010-02-03, 07:28 PM
Regarding all feedback I give, in our game we only have 12 classes and all of them have received major revision. Almost no Prestige Class exist and those that do are from special organisation and require intense roleplay to get in.

Feedback: The Bound
So the character was a Barbarian that was taken from is Tribe and put under magical control of a Evil Necromancer. Now fee he serve another master who help impose Law around the nation. Excluding more fluff, here's my comments on the prestige class :

- Chains that Bind in my game Barbarian have no armor but better damage reduction, so this provide the barbarian a good boost of AC. The Grapple bonus however was really big as Str and Con of the character we're high already when you add 10 from class level, it give no chance to anyone that want to try to escape.
- Bound in Iron was of no use (barbarian was already immune to fear , charm and compulsion effects), so I gave him 12+Class level Spell Resistance instead, it never block any of the party spells as it was a little low even with that +2 boost.
- Chains of Regret wasn't put into use as none of the party had that kind of damage reduction.
- Bound by Sorrow Grapple was already so strong that with no magic being able to help and another bonus to grapple from size increase make it now impossible to resist.
- Chains of Honor was put to use before the PCs talk to the Master, so was a nice thing for that encounter.
- Bound by Oath This have Neutralized a Character for some times that help the Barbarian play with other PCs, was use with Bound by Fate also.
- Unbreakable Chains This was one of the main source of damage but I dont think it was too much even with chains of destiny.
- Bound In Blood beeing able to have 2 stance at once have help a lot and this give him lot more versatility than if it had to only rely on one.
- Chains of Destiny see under
- Bound by Fate see under.

So in conclusion the class itself was pretty good, powerful with grapple rules and doing heavy damage, it was able to neutralized several foes at once. The inclusion of Maneuver from Chthonic Serpent together with ome other have made good combinaison of power. The big weakness was that the PCs decide to Heat the Metal from the chain so the Barbarian had to suffer or remove them. That was neutralized by a good Dispel Magic, however after a couples of round, the Fighter of the group succesfully Sunder the chains and without chain it lose lot of his power. even with another stack of chain it take too much time to place it back to rely on this in combat as I ruled that it took as much time as putting a armor (if the chain are just put on your shoulder not sure that this will be of any help), the time to put the chain on could be a good thing to add (unless I didnt see it in the text)

Beside that everything seem fine but maybe reduce the grapple bonus to half class level or even remove it completly, because 10 + Con Bonus + Size Increase that's a lot. The biggest tool from the Bound for me is Bound by Sorrows, because usally our spellcaster rely on Freedom of Movement to neutralized Grappler. Its needed by the Class, so I don't think it will be a good idea to remove it, but it could be a capstone ability. but as it is I love it that way.
Awesome!

Though, I'm not sure I like how utterly impossible to resist the Grapples were. But the bonuses were designed with grappling dragons and the like, so they had to be. I blame WotC for that one, for making the variations in Grapple modifiers so enormous.

Other than that, I would not have ruled that it took so long to put on the chain; I should have specified, though. A full-round action should have been sufficient. Still, I like the idea that it is a weakness that player's can exploit, that seems like a good thing.

Though maybe giving the chains DR /Law might help some, if they were too easy to sunder.

As for Bound by Sorrow - that was intentional. Basically, I don't like Freedom of Movement; anything that is an automatic "no" like that is just bad, I think, and getting rid of it sooner rather than later just seemed fair, or rather, the fact that the Wizard has it at all seems unfair.

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-02-03, 08:10 PM
Got to go SssSsSss, Unfettered Knight, and White Raven Commander for my votes.

FlamingKobold
2010-02-03, 08:34 PM
I think I have 3 votes, don't I?

On the 5-level vs 3 level: I actually thought that 3 levels might be better as I was considering the class, but then I realized that it's 5 levels because it's such a significant event. Dying and coming back as an even more paladin-y paladin is a pretty big deal, I've got to say.

Lord_Gareth
2010-02-04, 09:16 AM
I must ask - were your players having fun during their encounters with the Voidblades ("Holy $#!^ she's still coming after us! AAAH!") or were they just frustrated/annoyed?

Also, you could change One With Nothing to the Elemental Type, if you were so inclined.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-02-04, 09:43 AM
I must ask - were your players having fun during their encounters with the Voidblades ("Holy $#!^ she's still coming after us! AAAH!") or were they just frustrated/annoyed?

From the sound if it, there may have been some player irritation...sounds like the Voidblade had the answer to everything. Just my interpretation though...you'll have to wait for him to answer.

Basically, given the class, I can see it having gone either way...irritation is definitely possible when fighting a Voidblade, but I could also see it being fun.

Xzoltar
2010-02-04, 04:56 PM
I must ask - were your players having fun during their encounters with the Voidblades ("Holy $#!^ she's still coming after us! AAAH!") or were they just frustrated/annoyed?

They had fun, then they we're surprised and then, it was more like How the Hell can she do that... Yes one of the player (arcane spellcaster) was a little bit irritated to see every of is tactic fail, however he find that the encounter was challenging, he just ask me to never send a Team of Voidblade against them.

Maybe a limitation to Armor of Absence beside Psionic Focus will be more appropriate as gaining back your focus is easy. The rest of the ability seem fine, but its true that Armor of Absence may cause frustation if use to often in the same encounter. Maybe also only once per encounter, but I really like this ability, so not sure about what good to do, think for long lasting encounter only once is not enough , but beeing able to do this almos every round may be too much. So maybe once per encounter and then another time every 5 or 10 level after... Will see in later game as I will certainly use them again.

Should be able to test the Knight on Sunday...

DragoonWraith
2010-02-04, 05:20 PM
You could use a recharge mechanic like the Binder, once every five rounds or something.

ErrantX
2010-02-04, 05:32 PM
Votes please?

-X

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-02-04, 05:41 PM
Votes please?

Crap. Sorry! Didn't mean to derail the discussion! :smalleek:

Let's take this to the contest discussion thread, eh?

boomwolf
2010-02-05, 10:04 AM
Well, I AM in shame. not a single vote went into my lap?

Well thn, my choices are:

Voidblade Eliminator
White Lion Knight
Ghost Blade

Golden-Esque
2010-02-05, 01:04 PM
Wow, I can't believe I have five votes 0_0. That's definitely better then I did in the "Where the Wyld Things Are" Contest, so I'm sated ^_^.

As for my votes, I'm going with the following:

Ninja of the Golden Eclipse: In my humble opinion, this class has some of the most interesting fluff, as well as one of the most unique character concepts imaginable. Ninjas of the Sun are cool :).

Naked Knight: The fluff really was hilarious, though I personally would have liked to see it 'fleshed' out into a larger prestige class :P. I'm not as big fan of the 3-to-5-level dip classes, but I am a Conan fan, and clearly one must supersede the other.

White Raven Commander: I can totally appreciate all the hard work that this Prestige Class's author must have put into figuring out how to make the White Raven maneuvers better without making them ridiculously over powered. I think this class fits the White Raven theme quite nicely.

dyslexicfaser
2010-02-06, 12:51 AM
So many good choices.

Naked Knight: Short and sweet.

Ninja of the Golden Eclipse: Beats the hell out of any holy monk that has come before it.

Unfettered Knight: Because, damn it, Djinn deserves it. The bastard.

I loved the Phantom's quote, but could take or leave the mechanics. The Cavalier of Raedria has solid mechanics, but is missing fluff. Drunken Master is a class I'd rather play than Wizards' Drunken Master - love the idea. I'm a sucker for Dragoons. Voidblade Eliminator... well, you get the idea.

dawnsolara
2010-02-06, 12:48 PM
My votes go to the Ninja of the Golden Eclipse, Voidblade Eliminator, and White Lion Knight. I totally wish I'd had the White Lion Knight to play with my first campaign, except then my paladin would not have been killed off by the rest of the party (they decided they hated the idea of lawful good, even if I wasn't playing it) but probably would have killed off most of the rest of the party (CE sorcerer especially).

Awesome work, everybody.

ArcanistSupreme
2010-02-06, 01:36 PM
Voidblade Eliminator, Phantom, Unfettered Knight

Caen'ir
2010-02-06, 01:45 PM
The Unfettered Knight, the Bound, and the Voidblade Eliminator.

ErrantX
2010-02-08, 11:28 AM
Votes are tallied, and we had a 3-way tie for 3rd place.

As is in a previous contest, my vote is the tie breaking vote, and I have to gift it to Xallace with his Ninja of the Golden Eclipse. It was very tough to decide, but I had go with it.

That leaves the finalists Djinn's Unfettered Knight, Lord Gareth's Voidblade Eliminator, and Xallace's Ninja of the Golden Eclipse. Voting for the finalists ends on Friday at Midnight. Results on Saturday.

Get voting!
-X

Golden-Esque
2010-02-08, 11:50 AM
Get voting!
-X

I vote for the Ninja of the Golden Eclipse.

JoshuaZ
2010-02-08, 12:17 PM
Vote goes to Voidblade Eliminator

FlamingKobold
2010-02-08, 12:23 PM
Unfettered Knight for sure.

dawnsolara
2010-02-08, 12:49 PM
I've got to vote for the Voidblade Eliminator

ArcanistSupreme
2010-02-08, 01:19 PM
I say Voidblade Eliminator.

Glimbur
2010-02-08, 01:36 PM
Round 2? Unfettered Knight.

DragoonWraith
2010-02-08, 01:38 PM
I vote for Unfettered Knight.

Xzoltar
2010-02-08, 02:10 PM
Round 2 : Voidblade Eliminator

zagan
2010-02-08, 03:12 PM
Round 2: Ninja of the Golden Eclipse.

Dante & Vergil
2010-02-08, 03:19 PM
My next vote goes to the Voidblade Eliminator.

DaTedinator
2010-02-08, 08:11 PM
Ninja of the Golden Eclipse

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-02-08, 08:34 PM
Looks like this one might go to you, Gareth! :smallbiggrin:

Latronis
2010-02-08, 08:37 PM
Unfettered Knight was my 4th pick from the first round so that'll me my vote for the final.

I'll get you next time gadget!

Xallace
2010-02-08, 08:38 PM
Ohhhhh the nailbiting anticipation!

Salvonus
2010-02-08, 09:20 PM
Unfettered Knight. Most certainly. :smallsmile:

FlamingKobold
2010-02-08, 10:57 PM
5:5:3, this is close :smallbiggrin:

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-02-08, 11:02 PM
5:5:3, this is close :smallbiggrin:

Indeed!

ErrantX? May I suggest editing the title to read as follows:

PrC Contest XVI: Final Three -- Vote Now!

Or something similar? Many people may be forgetting the second round of voting.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-02-10, 12:27 PM
Bumping for first page status again...

KaganMonk
2010-02-10, 01:52 PM
Unfettered Knight for the sheer epicness.

Bibliomancer
2010-02-10, 04:08 PM
Unfettered Knight for strong backstory support and a very impressive picture. Did you draw that yourself, Djinn_in_Tonic?

Agi Hammerthief
2010-02-10, 04:18 PM
Unfettered Knight again in round two

ErrantX
2010-02-10, 05:05 PM
Votes updated, and we have til Friday night at Midnight to do this. Keep em coming!

-X

krko
2010-02-10, 05:19 PM
Unfettered Knight

Schylerwalker
2010-02-10, 10:07 PM
After much inner debate, I finally decided that I simply wouldn't vote. All of the classes were just so cool and well thought out th--

...Naaaaw, I'll just vote for the underdog (Not literally). Ninja of the Golden Eclipse!

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-02-10, 10:47 PM
Unfettered Knight for strong backstory support and a very impressive picture. Did you draw that yourself, Djinn_in_Tonic?

Alas, I did not. Deviant Art is normally my source for pictures...followed by a few other fantasy art sites. I always make sure to pick images with the artist's name in the URL though, so their work can be traced back to them. :smallbiggrin:

Bibliomancer
2010-02-10, 10:51 PM
Alas, I did not. Deviant Art is normally my source for pictures...followed by a few other fantasy art sites. I always make sure to pick images with the artist's name in the URL though, so their work can be traced back to them. :smallbiggrin:

I noticed the URL but decided not to follow the link. Did you happen to find the perfect picture, or did you design the prestige class around it?

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-02-10, 11:12 PM
I noticed the URL but decided not to follow the link. Did you happen to find the perfect picture, or did you design the prestige class around it?

I do both. In this case, I made the class first. For the Eerie Traveler and the Warden of the Hedge (two previous entries of mine in this contest), I found the image first.

Golden-Esque
2010-02-11, 12:10 AM
I don't know about everyone else, but I'm completely psyched for the next contest. Friday can't come soon enough!

Owrtho
2010-02-11, 12:24 AM
Voidblade Eliminator

Owrtho

Stycotl
2010-02-11, 04:23 PM
voidblade.

DracoDei
2010-02-11, 06:34 PM
Despite the fact that getting sudden strike damage with each attack that hits (assuming equal attack bonuses with the mace and the shuriken) seems over-powered, my gut is leading me to vote for The Ninja of he Golden Eclipse... so I am.

ErrantX
2010-02-12, 12:08 PM
Voting closes at midnight. Vote vote vote!

-X

Satyrus
2010-02-12, 01:05 PM
Vote for the unfettered knight here

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-02-13, 12:06 AM
Time's Up!

Eleven
2010-02-13, 02:24 AM
Dang it. Missed by two and a half hours.

Latronis
2010-02-13, 02:38 AM
no one will care if it's a little late if it's not for unfettered knight :smallbiggrin:

ErrantX
2010-02-13, 10:48 AM
Congrats to Djinn_In_Tonic for winning this contest with the Unfettered Knight. Great class man!

There was a ton of great classes in this contest, and I sincerely hope you all bookmarked this contest thread because of it. Congrats as well to Lord_Gareth and to Xallace for making it into the final three from such a great bunch of classes!

-X