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View Full Version : Sigh... I need help here 4.0



Eon
2010-02-01, 09:50 PM
So, after my last thread were my DM let me reroll and I asked for help on what to play... On my way to a Swim Meet I was told by one of the players they started a NEW campaign (:smallannoyed:) when I wasn't there. (:smallfurious:) When he was telling me of the characters, I was informed they used CON as a dump stat (:smalleek:) Then I was told that since apparently 4th edition warlocks are overpowered, he was making the new campaign really difficult (oh joy... :smalleek:) After a few attempts at making a character I realized that I would need have a good character to survive/help the rest of the party survive...

-sigh-
I have no clue how to make a very good 4th edition character, I need some help.

I could use some really good ideas or a character that one of the geniuses at the playground made that works very well. Please? :smalleek:

Touchy
2010-02-01, 09:55 PM
If they are using con as a dumb stat you need to be the meat shield.

Dust
2010-02-01, 09:55 PM
What books do you have available, and what does your DM allow? Do you know what the rest of the party contains so far? Most importantly, do you know if they have a character filling the Defender role?

Kylarra
2010-02-01, 09:57 PM
What role are you trying to fill?

Eon
2010-02-01, 09:58 PM
My DM has not disallowed anything. Not even monster manual races which suprised me.
I have more DnD books than the DM :smallbiggrin:

I have access to:
Players Handbook 1
Player's Handbook 2
Monster Manual
Monster Manual 2
Adventurer's Vault 1
Arcane Power
DM's guide 1
DM's guide 2

I think someone is playing the meatshield but I am not entirely sure...

Edit 2: We have strikers and a healer for sure. Any role should work...

kieza
2010-02-01, 10:02 PM
First off, to address your concerns: Nothing really has fixed dump stats in 4e. Each class has 3 stats that are important to it, either 2 primary/1 secondary or 1 primary/2 secondary. (The latter is more common in later books.) While you can dump CON if you want, it's very hard to find a build that needs it. On the other hand, having a low CON isn't as crippling as in previous editions. You'll have fewer HP (1 point of CON score gets you 1 more HP), fewer healing surges (1 point of CON modifier gets you 1 more healing surge), and low Endurance. You also won't be able to qualify for feats dealing with heavy armor, axes, and a few other areas.

Now, I gather from your post that you're looking at a Warlock. It isn't readily apparent, but Warlocks with the Infernal Pact are actually pretty resilient. Their abilities run off of CON, and a they have a lot of ways to get large amounts of temporary HP. They aren't overpowered, really, (in fact, Warlocks are considered one of the weaker classes), but they're tough enough to make a difference. If the DM is going to make the campaign really difficult, a decision which I'd disagree with, resilience will be useful. Paladins with a shield and 1H weapon, Wardens, and Barbarians are also good classes for resilience.

Unfortunately, I'm not a big character builder, so I don't have a handy character available; but somebody's bound to know where one of the really good ones on this forum is.

Bosh
2010-02-01, 10:03 PM
If they're using con as a dump stat and they think that warlocks are overpowered (consensus says they're one of the weakest classes around) then you should worry about not overshadowing everyone else not about being too weak.

Eon
2010-02-01, 10:03 PM
Kieza, my DM would freak out and so would the person playing the warlock if I was to make one also... :smallconfused:

Mando Knight
2010-02-01, 10:10 PM
If you're going to tank, grab Martial Power, Divine Power, and/or the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide. Paladin and Fighter get massive boosts in the former two, and Arcane Power alone isn't enough to make a Swordmage. Or, you could just get a 1-month subscription to DDI to get the Character Builder and just not have to purchase books for a while...

Primal Power has some stuff for Wardens, but it's nowhere near as dramatic a boost as Divine Power is for Paladins.

What level?

Kylarra
2010-02-01, 10:11 PM
Play a fighter, properly built you'll do reasonable damage, albeit less than most strikers, and be quite resilient to damage. If you're spiteful, you could be a battlerager vigor fighter and just keep racking in the temp hps.

herrhauptmann
2010-02-01, 10:13 PM
So, after my last thread were my DM let me reroll and I asked for help on what to play... On my way to a Swim Meet I was told by one of the players they started a NEW campaign (:smallannoyed:) when I wasn't there. (:smallfurious:) When he was telling me of the characters, I was informed they used CON as a dump stat (:smalleek:) Then I was told that since apparently 4th edition warlocks are overpowered, he was making the new campaign really difficult (oh joy... :smalleek:) After a few attempts at making a character I realized that I would need have a good character to survive/help the rest of the party survive...

-sigh-
I have no clue how to make a very good 4th edition character, I need some help.

I could use some really good ideas or a character that one of the geniuses at the playground made that works very well. Please? :smalleek:

Make a Deva Avenger (version that isolates, rather than chases). They're fun. :) Once you've got the Deva avenger, add in a nice weapon with Brutal and/or high crit (no reason not to take a two hander like Executioners Axe).
I recommend the daily power which activates when you take a critical hit. :) You take a crit, your oath target takes radiant damage equal to the crit (so undead victims of your oath take MORE damage).
It's been awhile since I looked at the Avenger, so I can't really remember all of what I thought was best. Though Avenger works great in a crit-fisher build I think, because they roll 2d20s when attacking their oath target.

Eorran
2010-02-01, 10:43 PM
Actually, if you want tank, my vote's for Paladin. Heavy armor out of the gate, and with the right selection of feats & powers, a Paladin can be a secondary striker or leader. I love me my Paladins.

Depending on secondary roles, you might want to look at a controller. If your strikers and leader can handle front-line duty well enough, the classic controller is still the Wizard. I haven't played one much, but Orb Wizard can shut down enemy choices like nobody's business. I've tried a Druid in a two-man party once, and found that his best stuff was in human form rather than wildshape.

Goonthegoof
2010-02-01, 10:59 PM
Or just make a con/str barbarian. If you're allowed mm races you can get a 2d8 weapon and you'll have more health and armour than defenders do with massive damage to top it off, plus quite a few temporary hp creating abilities.

Or just make a swordmage. Bastards are unkillable, their primary stat goes to defense so you start the game with 20 AC if you're using a 1 handed weapon and if anything goes wrong you have about 20 ways to teleport out of there.

Tequila Sunrise
2010-02-01, 11:14 PM
So, after my last thread were my DM let me reroll and I asked for help on what to play... On my way to a Swim Meet I was told by one of the players they started a NEW campaign (:smallannoyed:) when I wasn't there. (:smallfurious:) When he was telling me of the characters, I was informed they used CON as a dump stat (:smalleek:) Then I was told that since apparently 4th edition warlocks are overpowered, he was making the new campaign really difficult (oh joy... :smalleek:) After a few attempts at making a character I realized that I would need have a good character to survive/help the rest of the party survive...
That's the first time I've ever heard '4e warlock' and 'overpowered' in the same sentence.


-sigh-
I have no clue how to make a very good 4th edition character, I need some help.
Step 1: Pick a race/class combo that compliment each other.

Step 2: Start with a 16/18 in your primary stat and a 14/16 in your secondary, and jack them both up at every opportunity.

Step 3: Avoid powers that don't key off of your primary, or at least your secondary stat.

Step 4: Take the Expertise feat for whatever weapon or implement you use.

It's that simple. There are a few options that are arguably better than others, but it's not like previous editions where a non-optimizer becomes a side-kick character of an optimizer. My point is: don't sweat it.

Mando Knight
2010-02-01, 11:22 PM
That's the first time I've ever heard '4e warlock' and 'overpowered' in the same sentence.

Or at least, without a conditional or negative slipped in there somewhere...

Bagelz
2010-02-01, 11:22 PM
Its really hard to make a suggestion without knowing the rest of your party's makeup.
for example if you have a lot of ranged strikers you want a build a slow/stun/prone defender, or a swordmage to move around the battlefeild faster. If you have a couple rogues you want some slide/push/ powers to maximize you're flanking.

Warlocks aren't overpowered, they are solid single target striker (as opposed to mages who can clear a battlefeild full of minions, but will take longer on the "boss").
The thing about 4e is its much more balanced than previous versions, so any class you pick won't be useless, and no class makes others feel overpowered.

Just pick a class that has a supplement (martial power, divine power ect, don'nt pick monk/assassin/seeker if you are using the character builder, as you won't have as many options).

also use the character builder. Its free up to level 3.

Gralamin
2010-02-02, 12:02 AM
Or at least, without a conditional or negative slipped in there somewhere...

Hey, Warlocks that glow like the stars of which they draw power from can become pretty scary. But otherwise, yes.