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View Full Version : Feat: Extra Dervish Dance(acceptable?)



god666LOLLIRONY
2010-02-02, 03:05 AM
So I'm a multiclass Barbarian aiming for the Dervish(CW) PrC, I have the feat Extra Rage(CW). Once I get Dervish I'm thinking of retraining out Extra Rage for a similar custom feat that will give me two extra dances per day.
My DM is unsure about this and wanted me to post something to a knowledgable message board asking if this was acceptable. So here I am. Thoughts?

These are my thoughts on why it's okay:
-It gives you the dances /day of a 5th lvl dervish, extra rage gives rages /day of an 8th lvl Barb.
-Dervish dancing is prolly similar in power lvl to rage except it scales slightly faster. But if you consider the Whirling frenzy rage variant(UA) and Lion Totem(CC i think) rage is definitely more powerful. Both of which my DM allows, with me using Whirling frenzy (it's thematic!).
Mostly I just want to use the signature ability from my favorite PrC as soon as possible.

Splendor
2010-02-02, 05:39 AM
I was comparing it to the Frenzied berserker's ability not the rage ability.
I don't think twice a day would be too powerful for a feat. Its not increasing the damage, duration or eliminating any penalties.

Person_Man
2010-02-02, 11:01 AM
I would just allow the Dervish to just Dance once per encounter, without having to take any feats. It's a weak PrC.

Master_Rahl22
2010-02-02, 11:11 AM
That sounds reasonable to me. Of course that may just be because I love Dervish too and would like to have said feat for several characters, but it's probably not the bias talking. :smallbiggrin:

Eldariel
2010-02-02, 11:26 AM
Honestly, Extra Dance is nearly necessary for Dervish to function on the low levels as the Dance is pretty much all they've got going on for them and having it only 1/day just sucks. Though they're fine when they reach level 7-9.

Sinfire Titan
2010-02-02, 11:40 AM
I would just allow the Dervish to just Dance once per encounter, without having to take any feats. It's a weak PrC.

CO would disagree Person_Man.

DragoonWraith
2010-02-02, 11:50 AM
I think it's quite reasonable. It's almost a wasted feat after you complete the class (you're not likely to need to Dance that many times per day), but it's crucial at the first level. So you're taking power now and sort of paying for it later. Seems like a reasonable enough choice to make.

Eldariel
2010-02-02, 12:48 PM
I think it's quite reasonable. It's almost a wasted feat after you complete the class (you're not likely to need to Dance that many times per day), but it's crucial at the first level. So you're taking power now and sort of paying for it later. Seems like a reasonable enough choice to make.

Considering how feat-heavy Dervish is and how many feats you need to actually round out feat chains to make all the Dervish-prereqs worthwhile, paying extra feat is also a huge cost.

Person_Man
2010-02-02, 01:29 PM
CO would disagree Person_Man.

It was a half decent PrC when Pounce was rare and 100 other supplements didn't exist. But now it's pretty much a waste of time.

It requires FOUR weak feats as pre-reqs - Dodge, Mobility, Combat Expertise, Weapon Focus (and 5 ranks in the useless Perform, though that's just a relative annoyance). This by itself disqualifies the PrC in my eyes. But let's continue.

The Dervish Dance (which you can't use with Rage, btw) provides the ability to move and make a full attack plus a nifty bonus to hit and damage, is good. But there are far more efficient means to get Pounce or Free Movement (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5884385) and/or bonuses. And as this thread demonstrates, you can only use it limited times per day.

Pretty much every other class ability short of Thousand Cuts is mediocre or poor. Minor bonuses to AC, Minor Bonus to Initiative, Spring Attack, Cleave (while dancing), treating scimitars as light weapons (making them ineligible for Power Attack), Fast Movement. Your Skill Mastery for Jump and Tumble (and Dance?) would be helpful if you were a Rogue and needed to flank, but you don't.

Thousand Cuts is a great capstone. It can be used used ONCE PER DAY.

Oh, and the class is geared toward TWF and Weapon Finesse, which waste more feats, and have serious math problems.

So on balance, you waste 4 feats and 10 class levels to gain a nifty move/full attack ability, a jumble of minor bonuses, 2 poor bonus feats, an irrelevant Skill boost, and a capstone you can use once per day. Any of us could do better then that with a Barbarian 1/Fighter 14, or a Psychic Warrior 15, or any Tome of Battle class 15, or a Totemist 15, etc.

DragoonWraith
2010-02-02, 02:29 PM
OK, considering the huge number of feats that the Dervish needs and the fact that A Thousand Cuts is pretty much the only really amazing feature and is incredibly limited, how about this Extra Dervish Dance feat also gives an extra use per day of A Thousand Cuts?

Person_Man
2010-02-02, 02:45 PM
Well Sinfire, whom I respect immensely, may disagree. But in my opinion, you essentially have to rewrite the class (or play a Warblade with a dance theme). Loading up the PrC with feat taxes to make it playable also denies you the opportunity to use those feats for other things.