A Flaw in the Slaughter of the Paladins

[Ghostwheel]

Something bothered me about Xyklons easy win against a room-ful of Paladins since I first read it. I gave the misgivings some leeway since I don't know the epic rules very well.

But that doesn't matter at all. Not one of the Paladins, nor anyone else, would have been able to perceive the Symbol at all. All they would have seen is a bouncing ball with some markings on it. None would have been able to read something written on it until the bouncy-ball came close to rest.

I know that it doesn't matter to the plot anymore, but as a DM at heart, I would rule this as a good idea, but sorry; good ideas are not enough.

[Alex Warlorn]

Something bothered me about Xyklons easy win against a room-ful of Paladins since I first read it. I gave the misgivings some leeway since I don't know the epic rules very well.

But that doesn't matter at all. Not one of the Paladins, nor anyone else, would have been able to perceive the Symbol at all. All they would have seen is a bouncing ball with some markings on it. None would have been able to read something written on it until the bouncy-ball came close to rest.

I know that it doesn't matter to the plot anymore, but as a DM at heart, I would rule this as a good idea, but sorry; good ideas are not enough.

"In this case, “reading” the rune means any attempt to study it, identify it, or fathom its meaning."

O-Chul didn't get a blank about the bouncing ball, but the other paladins looked at it likely to see if it was going to explode or grow to giant size and try to eat them.

[Teddy]

There is nothing in the description of the Symbol spells (namely the description of Symbol of Death (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/symbolOfDeath.htm), since all other Symbol spells redirects you there) that says that the creatures must read the symbol to be affected. In fact, when the symbol is triggered, it sends out an continuing burst for 10 minutes per caster level that affects anyone not attuned to it. The only visibility requirement is that it is placed clearly visible and in a prominent location, so a super bouncy ball would probably fill that requirement.


"In this case, “reading” the rune means any attempt to study it, identify it, or fathom its meaning."

O-Chul didn't get a blank about the bouncing ball, but the other paladins looked at it likely to see if it was going to explode or grow to giant size and try to eat them.

And it was probably set to activate by Xykon's command word "Symbol of Insanity" anyway.

[Ghostwheel]

"In this case, “reading” the rune means any attempt to study it, identify it, or fathom its meaning."

O-Chul didn't get a blank about the bouncing ball, but the other paladins looked at it likely to see if it was going to explode or grow to giant size and try to eat them.

All of them noticed a small bouncy ball? I think the flaw still exists.

[pjackson]

But that doesn't matter at all. Not one of the Paladins, nor anyone else, would have been able to perceive the Symbol at all. All they would have seen is a bouncing ball with some markings on it. None would have been able to read something written on it until the bouncy-ball came close to rest.


By the rules as written (RAW) they do not need to be able to read it, or even percieve it.

From http://www.d20srd.org/
This spell functions like symbol of death, except that all creatures within the radius of the symbol of insanity instead become permanently insane (as the insanity spell).

Unlike symbol of death, symbol of insanity has no hit point limit; once triggered, a symbol of insanity simply remains active for 10 minutes per caster level.

and under Symbol of Death
This spell allows you to scribe a potent rune of power upon a surface. When triggered, a symbol of death slays ...
Once triggered, the symbol becomes active and glows, ...
Any creature that enters the area while the symbol of death is active is subject to its effect,
Until it is triggered, the symbol of death is inactive (though visible and legible at a distance of 60 feet). To be effective, a symbol of death must always be placed in plain sight and in a prominent location. Covering or hiding the rune renders the symbol of death ineffective,
As a default, a symbol of death is triggered whenever a creature does one or more of the following, as you select: looks at the rune; reads the rune; touches the rune; passes over the rune; or passes through a portal bearing the rune.
You can also set special triggering limitations of your own. These can be as simple or elaborate as you desire.
You also can attune any number of creatures to the symbol of death,
Any creature attuned to a symbol of death cannot trigger it and is immune to its effects,
You are automatically considered attuned to your own symbols of death, and thus always ignore the effects and cannot inadvertently trigger them.

If the trigger was set as someone looking at the symbol, all it would take is one paladin looking at the wrong side of the ball for it to be triggered, and then it would affect them all.

Or Xykon could hhave set a special trigger such as the ball bouncing.

You are of course free to rule as you wish as DM, but in this case the Giant and Xykon were right by RAW.

[Jan Mattys]

Also, Rule of Cool.

And the bouncing ball of insanity has "Cool" written all over it. :smallbiggrin:

[FabuVinny]

All of them noticed a small bouncy ball? I think the flaw still exists.:xykon: Follow the bouncing ball, children.

Xykon deliberately brought their attention to it.

[factotum]

All of them noticed a small bouncy ball? I think the flaw still exists.

When said ball is bouncing right through the middle of their ranks, and immediately after someone tells them to look at it? Don't think there's a flaw at all.

[Optimystik]

For it to activate, only one of them in the entire roomful of paladins needed to look at it. Once active, it affects everyone in the radius, even if they do not study it themselves.

This is similar to explosive runes - only one person needs to read it, but the explosion catches everyone in the radius. Magical traps often function in this way.

[jlvm4]

For it to activate, only one of them in the entire roomful of paladins needed to look at it. Once active, it affects everyone in the radius, even if they do not study it themselves.


Also, even if you give the benefit of the doubt and say half the paladins were in the radius, the rest would still end up trapped in chaos, having to fight their insane comrades. Worse, they would probably be trying not to kill their friends, and so be at a disadvantage and more likely to get killed themselves than a possessed paladin. Anyone who tried to ignore the crazy ones would get cut down by them before being able to stop Xykon anyway. It was a lose-lose, if you were a paladin, no matter if the ball caught your attention or not.

[Optimystik]

No need for benefit of the doubt - we can clearly see which ones are affected due to Rich's signature "Swirly Charm Eyes."