[3.5] Non-casting wand slinger?

[Thurbane]

Hey all, looking for suggestions on how to make a non-casting wand slinger. For my purposes, an Artificer counts as a caster (not to mention that the class does not exist in the campaign setting). Also, psionics = spellcasting in this case.

Ideally, I'm looking for a way to get Double Wand Wielder and Reckless Wand Wielder without being a caster...is this possible? Could it be done with Warlock, Binder (Karsus) or Factotum?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Warlock would be easy, with Take 10 on UMD... but straight Rogue could do it easily enough as well...

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Factotum is always the answer! "Free" actions are good, too.

To be fair, I'd also throw down Binder as a viable option, but that probably shouldn't be his schtick. Really, anything with UMD as a class skill would work.

Also, considering the nature of Invocations, I'm inclined to throw Warlocks in with the casters.

[Soranar]

I don't see how Factotum could do it. Reckless wand wielder requires craft wand which requires caster level 5.

[Splendor]

Factotum has a caster level "your caster level equals your level in this character class"

[Splendor]

In the Sharn City of Towers book there is a prestige class called the Cannith wand adept (3 level class). Adds adept level to wands caster level and DC, +1 to hit with wand attacks, identify wands using spellcraft, and quick draw with wands. Also grants a worse version of double wand wielder.


Wand Mastery feat: Any spell you cast from a wand has its DC increased by 2 and its effective caster level increased by 2. (Eberron main boo)

[Splendor]

Third post...

Actually you don't even have to take a level in any spell casting class....

Innate Magic Feat (DR324 p78): Select a zero level spell. You gain the spell-like ability to cast this spell once per day. Caster level 1st.
--Notice the wording says you actually "cast this spell" so you are a spell caster.

Practiced Spellcaster Feat: Choose one of your spellcasting classes. The spells you cast from this class have +4 Caster level (up to your number of HD).
--Since innate magic allows any class to be a spellcasting class, this would work for any class.

Caster level is now Five. So you qualify for Reckless wand wielder.

[Temotei]

There is an edit button. :smallamused:

Wand-slinging would be sweet. Do a factotum!

[sofawall]

The feat gives you a spell-like ability, first of all, and second, does not make any class a spellcasting class. Sure, that fighter can cast a spell, but did his fighter levels give it to him? No? Then fighter is not a spellcasting class.

[Thurbane]

Yeah, would prefer to do this with as little cheese as possible...so Factotum is looking like the front runner so far...

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Yeah, would prefer to do this with as little cheese as possible...so Factotum is looking like the front runner so far...

Warlock gets to Take 10 on UMD checks, so he can never fail a check to activate a wand. This makes a 'lock better at 4th level, but once the Factorum gets a +19 mod to his UMD check, the advantage vanishes.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Witchalock.

[BardicDuelist]

Factotum is the cleanest way to do it. It also keeps your character from being useless outside of it's one trick. I recommend factotum.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Factotum is the cleanest way to do it. It also keeps your character from being useless outside of it's one trick. I recommend factotum.

I would hardly call being able to deal more damage than an Ubercharger on touch attacks 'useless'... nor any of the other battlefield control options a warlock has.

[sofawall]

I would hardly call being able to deal more damage than an Ubercharger on touch attacks 'useless'... nor any of the other battlefield control options a warlock has.

Hahahahano.

[Thurbane]

...back on track: can a Warlock qualify for Double Wand Wielder?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Hahahahano.

Look up Glaivelock. Have a nice day. The build I'm making for ToS, at level 13, can do nearly 1k damage. Without breaking action economy.


...back on track: can a Warlock qualify for Double Wand Wielder?

Don't see why not. Has to have the feat Craft Wand and TWF. Since a Warlock has caster levels, he can take Craft Wand, and TWF as long as his Dex is high enough.

[Thurbane]

Cool, I wasn't 100% on Warlocks and caster levels.

...also, guys, can we not turn this into an "effectiveness of warlocks" thread? There's plenty here already, and (selfishly) I wouldn't like to see this become another. :smallwink:

[absolmorph]

How 'bout using Hulking Hurler?
Or am I being too literal?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

How 'bout using Hulking Hurler?
Or am I being too literal?

HH is seperate from Ubercharger, although it can use Ubercharger with Power Throw and a few other tricks, maybe a one level dip in Bloodstorm Blade to make thrown weapons count as melee to use all of the Ubercharger tricks. HH, however, is a seperate mechanic breakage, using your Medium Weight Limit as a damage calculator. Ubercharger just stacks craptons of multipliers and pounces.

[Thurbane]

I think he was making a joke about being a "wand slinger"...geddit? :smalltongue:

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I think he was making a joke about being a "wand slinger"...geddit? :smalltongue:

*groans* Okay... I take 2d4 SAN damage... and file the pun away for future use :smallbiggrin:

[sofawall]

Look up Glaivelock. Have a nice day. The build I'm making for ToS, at level 13, can do nearly 1k damage. Without breaking action economy.

1000? Hmm. Seems like that is slightly less than scientific notation.

Also, Supreme Power attack gives 4 damage per BAB. Spirited Charge+Valorous Weapon gives *4 damage on a charge, so 16 damage per BAB. Leap Attack adds +100%, so +32 damage per BAB. At level 17 (the earliest you can get level 10 in FB without hax), each hit is pulling off 544 damage from Power Attack, and that's without the extra 20 from Collision and the 64 from str. With 4 attacks from BAB, 1 from Frenzy, one from Whirling Frenzy, even assuming only the three at highest base attack bonus hit, that's above 1k, easy.

Working at level 13, it's 3*4, or 12 per BAB. With 13 BAB, that's 156. Collision gives another 20, as before, and str gives 52. Seems to be about 228, and with 5 attacks, can break 1k.

Also, I haven't even used Battle Jump, or any of the methods to gain extra attacks.

Ubercharger will beat Glaivelock at basically every level in pure damage.

EDIT: Bear in mind, what was built above is not even an ubercharger. Just a basic charger build.

EDIT2: Well, technically, 1000 could still be written in scientific notation. You get my point, though.

[absolmorph]

*groans* Okay... I take 2d4 SAN damage... and file the pun away for future use :smallbiggrin:
-blows on fingers-
That's how I roll ;)

[BigBadBugbear]

Gnome (spell like abilities)
Practiced spellcasting (+4 lvl)

TAADAA!

[Keld Denar]

I like the idea of taking Hulking Hurler, and making a Wand Slinger Slinger. You know, you grab a couple of those skinny mages, one in each hand, and you send them hurtling in parabolic trajectories while they are raining down heavily metamagiced Scorching Rays from wands.

I'm thinking Leadership would be required.

[sofawall]

Gnome (spell like abilities)
Practiced spellcasting (+4 lvl)

TAADAA!

Didn't I just disprove basically this exact thing?

Gnome is not a spellcasting class. Therefore, Practiced Caster cannot be applied.

[Thurbane]

<snip>
Thanks for respecting other people's threads. It's not like there are already 1000 existing threads to argue this point in. :smallconfused:

...I know there is no "ownership" of threads that you create on these forums, but I like to think that people can extend a little common courtesy to fellow board members.

[absolmorph]

I like the idea of taking Hulking Hurler, and making a Wand Slinger Slinger. You know, you grab a couple of those skinny mages, one in each hand, and you send them hurtling in parabolic trajectories while they are raining down heavily metamagiced Scorching Rays from wands.

I'm thinking Leadership would be required.
Raptoran Rogues?

[sofawall]

I responded to a point made in the thread. It may not have fit the OP, but it did fit the thread, and as Roland has said many a time, the OP does not own the thread.

Second, the issue did not warrant a thread of its own, as it was a simple one point proof.

Third, there are no threads arguing the merits of ubercharge damage vs. Glaivelock (as there is nothing to argue, really), or at least none recent enough to avoid breaking the rule against thread necromancy.

Forth, I'll go put it in a spoiler if it makes you happy.

Fifth, the thread is already going off topic. How is replying to Schneekys post any worse than Slinging Slingers?

EDIT: Sixth, I hear Metamagic Wand Grips are pricey in wand charges, but useful for laying down hurt.

[absolmorph]

sofawall, the posts on using Hulking Hurler were started by me being literal about slinging wands.
Someone thought of using that for something both amusing and possibly viable, and still vaguely relevant to the thread.
Also, our posts are much shorter.

[sofawall]

sofawall, the posts on using Hulking Hurler were started by me being literal about slinging wands.
Someone thought of using that for something both amusing and possibly viable, and still vaguely relevant to the thread.
Also, our posts are much shorter.

My post was brought about responding to Schneeky, who posted in this thread about a warlock, which was a reply to BardicDuelist, discussing the merits of warlocks as relevant to the OP. My reply had nothing to do with the OP, but everything to do with the thread.

The Hulking Hurler posts are no more relevant, as they too were started by something in the thread, but now have nothing to do with the rest of the thread.

Also, I felt correcting inaccuracies when someone is suggesting a build achetype is something laudable, not decryable. For example, if someone says Commoners do more damage per round than a Fighter of equal level, saying the Commoner does 700 damage at level 13, one might disprove this. How would one disprove this? Oddly enough, with proof! Specifically, proof that the fighter does more than 700 damage at the given level. I gave all the proof required, and backed up all my statements. "Ubercharger is better" was contested, and just saying it again would do nothing, and cluttering up the thread further than one definitive proof.

Also, while my posts were longer, that's because I had more to say than just a pun or a witticism.

[Thurbane]

Speaking for myself, if the OP of a thread asks politely, twice, to try and keep on topic, and keep tangental discussions to a separate thread…I generally honor their wishes. YMMV.

...anyway, thanks to everyone who posted relevant info for the topic. I think I have the answers I need. If anyone now wants to use this thread to argue about the price of fish in Egypt, be my guest. :smallbiggrin:

[absolmorph]

Speaking for myself, if the OP of a thread asks politely, twice, to try and keep on topic, and keep tangental discussions to a separate thread…I generally honor their wishes. YMMV.

...anyway, thanks to everyone who posted relevant info for the topic. I think I have the answers I need. If anyone now wants to use this thread to argue about the price of fish in Egypt, be my guest. :smallbiggrin:
I reckon the price isn't much more than it is in America (which I use as a base since I live here).

[Splendor]

Also found another feat that may be helpful.

Inspired Master [General] (DR339 p34)
— Any magic item you use has its ‘Caster level’ treated as if it were +1 level.

[ericgrau]

The advantage of a rogue is touch attack sneak attacks with level 0 wands. High level wands tend to be expensive so you'll probably want low level utility stuff anyway. Might as well grab some scrolls too.


I reckon the price isn't much more than it is in America (which I use as a base since I live here).

According to this (http://ag.arizona.edu/azaqua/ista/ISTA8/Abstracts_Papers/Ahmed%20Nasrallah.doc) the price of fish in Egypt is going down. But that may be skewed because the vast majority of fish there is tilapia (used in fried fillets like McDonald's).

[absolmorph]

According to this (http://ag.arizona.edu/azaqua/ista/ISTA8/Abstracts_Papers/Ahmed%20Nasrallah.doc) the price of fish in Egypt is going down. But that may be skewed because the vast majority of fish there is tilapia (used in fried fillets like McDonald's).
Oooooh, tilapia is delicious.
I didn't know the price of fish in Egypt is/was going down, though.
But now I do. And knowing is half the battle.