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Macrovore
2010-02-02, 09:50 PM
Rationale:

In DnD, spells are very specific. You may know fireball, and can cast it 6 times per day, but without other fire spells or expensive metamagic feats, all you can do with your magic is make a 20ft radius ball of fire. This is inherent with the system, both in 3.5 and especially in 4e, in which every character has a big list of extremely specific effects.

While this system works fairly well to balance characters, I do not like it. It treats magic spells like formulas which do not translate into anything besides their specific combat applications. I hope with this system, to allow characters to be more creative with their spells, by increasing the effects each spell can accomplish.


Note: In this system, the sorcerer and wizard classes have been subsumed in to the Mage class. The entire magic system is actually built around a new class system I am developing, collapsing all base classes in to 4 generic 10-level classes (Mage, Adept, Warrior, and Expert), and having both Advanced classes (characters, usually of a specific class, who focus on a specific playing style, such as Priest, Fire Mage, Spearfighter, and Barbarian), and Prestige classes (classes which focus on specific organizations, such as Mage of the Arcane Order, Eye of Gruumsh, and Assassin).

Spell Seeds
I have been able to reduce every spell in the game (or at least almost all that you would want to do with a spell) to 51 specific spells, or Spell Seeds.
A 1st level mage starts out with 2 spells known, and uses spell points. The number of spell points they get average out to slightly fewer than Psions get. Every 3 levels after that, they learn one new spell.

The spells are organized by school, and there are many dual-school spells. Also, there are four advanced spells (storm, time, fate, and undeath) that require certain spells and caster level in order to be known.

Each spell will have:
cantrip: One minor magical effect usable at will
augments: Between one and three augments that can be applied to any spell in the seed
spells: spells that anyone who knows the spell type and has the requisite caster level can use (all of which can be augmented individually)

This is only the list of spells, not their actual descriptions. That comes later. Remember the [WIP] at the top? That means I can post as little as I want.

Well, here goes:

ABJURATION
Shield: Protect allies from attacks
Protect: Protect allies from effects
Dispel: Dispel, turn, and absorb spells
Ward: Guard and trap objects and areas

CONJURATION
Acid: Conjure globs of acid to throw or spray
Fog: Conjure fog, which can sicken or impede foes
Bind: Trap foes in vines, tentacles, or cages
Summon: Summon creatures to fight for you
Create: Conjure objects to use
Water: Create and control water
Earth: Create and control earth and stone
Transport: teleport creatures and objects

DIVINATION
Detect: Detect magic, creatures, auras, and the like
Insight: See things before they happen
Oracle: Predict the future, and commune with spirits
Scry: View and track people and objects from a distance
Fate: Alter your own and other's fates (advanced spell)

ENCHANTMENT
Stun: Daze, stun, or paralyze foes
Enchant: Charm and dominate others
Fear: Make foes cower and flee in fear
Control: Control others' bodies, minds, even possess them
Curse: Curse your foes

EVOCATION
Fire: Create fire. need I say more?
Lightning: Zap foes with bolts of lightning
Ice: Blast foes with cold, and freeze them
Force: Explosive blasts of force damage and throw foes
Wind: Create and control wind and air
Light: Sear away the darkness with blinding light!
Darkness:..sear..the light..with..darkness? Does that even make sense?
Communication: Communicate between short and long distances instantly
Sonic: Deafen, damage, and shatter creatures and objects
Color: Blind or fascinate creatures with bright colors, and blast them with prismatic effects. Oooh. Shiny...
Storm: Control the weather. Or just strike people with lightning. (advanced spell)

ILLUSION
Figment: Conjure figments to trick your foes
Mask: Protect against detection and mind control
Shadow: Duplicate conjurations or evocations with partially real shadows (advanced spell)
Infiltrate: Use invisibility and silence to sneak around 'n stuff.
Color: I'm not going to repeat that.

NECROMANCY
Drain: Steal enemies' health, energy, and abilities
Weaken: Drain a foe's strength and energy
Heal: Heal other's wounds and cure their ailments. Now in Necromancy!
Death: Kill people. that's pretty much it.
Undeath: Create and control undead minions (advanced spell)
Curse: *sigh* no. you figure it out.
Blight: Destroy nature and spread disease

TRANSMUTATION
Time: Speed up, slow down, or stop time.
Boost: Augment your allies' abilities
Transform: Alter your form to give you wings, or turn you into a dragon, or change green beans to cupcakes, and the like. the kids love that stuff!
Wind: more dual-school spells.
Earth: There are a bunch of them, aren't they.
Water: It's all these elemental spells. stupid dual-school spells. makin' me type it over again.
Weapon: create and augment weapons
Telekinesis: Control objects and people from a distance with your mind. or just pinch barmaid's rear ends.
Travel: Travel farther and faster overland or through the air. Handy when escaping the father of that aforementioned barmaid.
Communication: too bad.
Metal: Create and control metal. or something.
Nature: Various nature-related effects. like plants and weather or some such nonsense. Also useful to get some pot, for all you hippie mages out there.
Storm: Call upon the power of dual-school spells!
Fate: Woah. Deja Vu... or is it?


there are 51 spells. tell me if you think I'm missing anything. I'm reserving the next few posts to put the actual spell descriptions in.
Thank you very much,
-Macrovore

Macrovore
2010-02-02, 09:52 PM
Here's the first of the schools, Evocation! Lemme know what you think.

Evocation
FIRE
cantrip: fire touch-touch attack deals 1d6 fire damage
augments: damage
area
effect-burning
spells: orb of fire
blast of flame
control flame
fire burst
fire storm
wall of fire

ICE
cantrip: freezing touch-touch attack deals 1d3 cold damage and slows for one round
augments: damage
area
effect-freezing
spells: ice shards
cone of cold
freeze person
freeze landscape
body of ice
wall of ice

LIGHTNING
cantrip: spark zap-ranged touch attack deals 1d4 electricity damage, +2 if target is wearing, covered in, or made of metal
augments: damage
area
effect-stunning
spells: ray of electricity
lightning bolt
chain lightning
conductivity
electric discharge
magnetism

FORCE
cantrip: force arrow-ranged touch attack deals 1d3 force damage
augments: damage
effect-explosion
spells: force missile
blast of force
force blade
wall of force
force burst
force bolt

SONIC
cantrip: jar eardrum-touch deals 1d4 sonic damage and deafens for one round
augments: damage
area
effect-defeaning
spells: shatter
sonic blast
sonic boom
control sound
thunder
cacophony

AIR
cantrip: burst of air-ranged touch attack can bull-rush one creature
augments: wind force
area/range
effect-slashing winds
spells: gust of wind
wind wall
control winds
whirlwind
air walk
defenestrating sphere
gaseous form

LIGHT
cantrip: light-create globe of light
augments: area
effect-blinding
spells: faerie fire
daylight
sunbeam
sunburst
dazzle
sunrise

DARKNESS
cantrip: shadow veil-ranged touch attack blinds creature for one round
augments: area
level of darkness
spells: darkness
veil of darkness
disorienting shadow
darkscreen
sunset

COMMUNICATION
cantrip: message-whisper at a distance
augments: range
channeling effect
spells: missive
sending
telepathy
magic mouth
correspond

COLOR
cantrip: dancing lights-create small lights
augments: duration
increased HD limit
area
spells: color spray
rainbow pattern
prismatic spray
prismatic wall
glitterdust
Storm
requirements: Two of: Air, Water, Lightning, Caster Level 9
cantrip: Call Lightning
augments: duration
area
spells: Control Weather
Storm's Wrath
Storm of Vengeance

Illusion
Figment
cantrip: Silent Image
augments: Max duration
Concentration
Size
spells: Illusion
Ventroquilism
Mirror Image
Hallucinatory terrain
Mislead
Programmed Image

Mask
cantrip: Disguise Self
augments: Duration
resistance to detection
spells: Disguise Aura
Misdirection
False Vision
Seeming
Screen
Mind Blank

Shadow
requirements: Illusion, Darkness, Caster Level 7
cantrip: Shadow Cantrip- duplicate any cantrip (non-advanced spells) with 50% realness
augments: realness
power of duplicated spell
spells: Shadow Evocation
Shadow Conjuration

Infiltrate
cantrip: Camoflauge
augments: duration
resistance to detection
spells: Invisibility
Silent Steps
Silence
Invisibility Sphere
Blur

Enchantment
Stun
cantrip: Daze person
augments: Save DC
duration
spells: Daze
Sleep
Hold
Paralyze
Stasis


Enchant
cantrip: Hypnotize
augments: save DC
duration
spells: Charm
Suggestion
Attraction
Aversion

Fear
cantrip: Fear Instinct
augments: Duration
Save DC
Area
spells: Cause Fear
Frightful Presence
Flee in Panic
Crushing Despair
Doom

Curse
cantrip: Touch of Fatigue
augments: Duration
Save DC
spells: Bestow Curse
Geas
Feeblemind
Pain
Mark of Justice

Control
cantrip: Command
augments: Duration
Save DC
spells: Control Body
Dominate
Possess
Enslave

Confuse
cantrip: lesser confusion
augments: Targets
Save DC
spells: Confusion
Insanity
Hideous Laughter
Rage

Conjuration
Acid
cantrip: grease
augments: damage
area
effect: sickening
spells: Acid Spray
Caustic Mire
Acid Rain
Acid Arrow
Melt item

Fog
cantrip: smoke burst-gain concealment for one round
augments: duration
area
resistance to wind
spells: Obscuring Mist
Stinking Cloud
Solid Fog

Summon
cantrip: unseen servant
augments: duration
targets
spells: Summon Monster
Planar Ally
Planar Binding
Summon Item
Summon Ally

Bind
cantrip: lasso-entangles foe on ranged touch attack, can control rope
augments: area
constrict damage
spells: Entangle
Web
Bind to Object
Cage
Maze
Soul Bind

Water
cantrip: create water
augments: area
spells: Control Water
Sleet Storm
Animate Water
Maelstrom
Float
Sink

Earth
cantrip: magic stone
augments: area
duration
spells: Earthbolt
Wall of Stone
Stone Shape
Earthquake
Petrify
Move Earth

Create
cantrip: conjure trinket-creates nonmagical item worth 1gp or less for 1min
augments: Amount created
spells: Create Food and Water
Creation
True Creation
Simulacrum
Duplicate Creature
Conjure Dwelling

Transport
cantrip: dimension leap-teleport 10 feet
augments: range
targets
spells: Regroup
Dimension Door
Teleport
Planeshift
Create Portal
Dimension Jumper

Divination
Detect
cantrip: Detect Hostile Intent
augments: concentration time
duration
range
spells: Detect Thoughts
See Invisibility
True Seeing
Discern Lies
Arcane Sight
Detect Creatures
Insight
cantrip: Guidance
augments: Insight Bonus
Duration
spells: True Strike
Tongues
Moment of Prescience
Foresight
Oracle
cantrip: augury
augments:
spells: Legend Lore
Hindsight
Find the Path
Divination
Discern Location
Scry
cantrip: floating eye- magical sensor can travel 30ft/rnd with a move action and allow you to see through it. duration: concentration
augments: range
spellcasting conduit
spells: Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
Prying Eyes
Scrying
Arcane Eye
Fate
requirements: Time, and either Oracle or Insight, Caster Level 11
cantrip: idk
augments: targets
spells: Lucky item
Alter Fate-minor
Alter Fate-major

Macrovore
2010-02-02, 09:57 PM
Abjuration
Shield
cantrip: Shield
augments: duration
targets
spells: Deflection
Protection from Arrows
Thicken Skin
Augment Armor
Sanctuary
Uncanny Dodge
Protect
cantrip: resistance
augments: duration
targets
spells: Resist Energy
Spell Resistance
Spell Immunity
Evasion
Endure Elements
Death Ward
Dispel
cantrip: dispelling touch- dispel one effect on creature with touch attack
augments: targets
dispel check
spells: Dispel Magic
Spell Turning
Absorb Magic
Disjoin Item
Disjoin Area
Disrupt Spellcaster
Ward
cantrip: alarm
augments: duration
area
spells: Glyph of Warding
Arcane Lock
Dimensional Anchor
Sanctum
Forbiddance
Contingency

Necromancy
Drain
cantrip: drain health- touch drains 1d3 health, heals caster same amount
augments: duration
targets
spells: vampiric touch
Drain Attribute
Steal Spell
Steal Talent
Weaken
cantrip: Touch of Enfeeblement
augments: duration
targets
spells: Fatigue
Mana drain
Break Morale
Vunerability
Energy Vunerability
Heal
cantrip: healing touch- heal 1d4 points of damage to a character that has fewer than half hp
augments: Amount of healing
Targets
spells: Cure Wounds
Remove Poison and Disease
Regenerate Limb
Fast Healing
Restoration
Gentle Repose
Death
cantrip: wounding touch - touch deals 1d3 points of negative energy damage, and 1pt of negative energy damage each round for 5 rounds
augments: Permanancy of Death
Targets
Save DC
spells: Slay Living
Destroy Undead
Implosion
Energy Drain
Circle of Death
Undeath
requirements: Weaken OR Drain, Death, Caster Level 5
cantrip: Command Undead
augments: effective CR reduced
turn resistance
spells: Animate Dead
Create Undead
Control Undead
Army of the Dead
Blight
cantrip: Wither Plant- touch deals 1d8 damage to plant or plant creature
augments: Targets/Area
spells: Poison
Disease
Horrid Wilting
Blighted Landscape
Dessication

Transmutation
Time
cantrip: Swiftness- An ally within 30 feet may make a single melee attack
augments: targets
Duration
spells: Slow
Haste
Quicken
Stop
Celerity

Boost
cantrip: Bless
augments: Targets
Duration
spells: Boost attribute
Heroism
Grant ability
Valorous Might
Enlarge

Transform
cantrip: Claw- natural weapon deals 1d6 points of damage
augments: Targets
Duration
spells: Alter self
Animal Shape
Polymorph any object
Dragonshape
Shapechange
Partial transmute

Weapon
cantrip: Summon weapon- you summon a masterwork weapon to use
augments: Targets
Duration
spells: Magic Weapon
Flaming weapon
Silvered weapon
Equip Army
Dancing Weapon

Telekinesis
cantrip: mage hand- move light object at a distance
augments: Range
Concentration
Weight limit
spells: Telekinesis
Reverse Gravity
Levitate
Launch item


Travel
cantrip: Longstrider- +10ft movement speed
augments: Targets
Duration
spells: Expeditious Retreat
Fly
Overland Flight
Pass Without Trace
Freedom of Movement
Jump

Metal
cantrip: Steel Dart- ranged attack deals 1d4 damage and bleeds 1 point per round for 5 rounds
augments: Duration
Metal type
spells: Blade barrier
Wall of Iron
Ironwood
Ironskin
Wall of Blades

Nature
cantrip: Entangle- entangle one creature with vines
augments: Duration
spells: Control Plants
Thorns
Plant Growth
Call Animal
Awaken

There they are. Note that these spells are not completely statted out. The names are only descriptions. They might not function exactly as the 3.5 spells of the same name do, and spells here that don't exist in 3.5 don't have an exact description.

Draz74
2010-02-03, 02:04 AM
I am intrigued (by the relative similarity of this project to what I want to do with homebrewed spellcasting), and I eagerly await more. :smallsmile:

Temotei
2010-02-03, 02:52 AM
Me too. :smalltongue:

What are adepts? Classes with partial casting (paladins, bards, rangers)?

Latronis
2010-02-03, 03:22 AM
Me too. :smalltongue:

What are adepts? Classes with partial casting (paladins, bards, rangers)?

Adept normally refers to a highly skilled person. Although though not overly likely considering there is also a expert class which would seem to refer to the skill-monkey types.

So when we think about the latin adeptus meaning to attain or to grasp one could make an argument for Adepts being Divine characters.

So mage = arcane
Adept = divine
warrior = beatstick
expert = skillmonkey

Temotei
2010-02-03, 03:24 AM
Adept normally refers to a highly skilled person. Although though not overly likely considering there is also a expert class which would seem to refer to the skill-monkey types.

That's what confused me. I know what it means, silly. :smalltongue: I saw that, saw expert, and got confused.


So when we think about the latin adeptus meaning to attain or to grasp one could make an argument for Adepts being Divine characters.

An astute observation.

Latronis
2010-02-03, 04:29 AM
Yes I do believe I am quite adept at that.

Macrovore
2010-02-03, 12:15 PM
Well, Latronis hit the nail on the head.
The adept is the divine character, though he doesn't cast any spells. What they have is faith points, which renew themselves every encounter, and can be used to heal allies, shapeshift (a la druid shapeshift), or project auras.
Each class will have points which are gained and spent in different ways, which their talent layouts will determine.
Experts will get precise strike points, which can be used to backstab, sudden strike, skirmish, etc, and are renewed every round.
Warriors have maneuver points, which can be spent on more powerful attacks, and are gained differently depending on the talents they have (such as gaining points every time you hit with an attack, or every time someone misses you in melee).
Mages have spell points, which renew themselves every day and are used on their spells. Pretty self-explanatory on that one.

Macrovore
2010-02-03, 12:18 PM
More to the point, though. Just from looking at the list of spell seeds, do you see what could be missing from the mage's abilities? What spells wouldn't fit under any of those descriptions? Or is there a spell or two I could cut out?

Jota
2010-02-03, 01:18 PM
All this depends on how broad or specific each seed is supposed to be, so dismiss/consider at your leisure:

1. Weapon could possibly be covered by Create and Boost.
2. Storm feels like it could be a combination of Wind, Lightning, and Water without needing a separate category.
3. Mask feels like Protect.
4. Figment could cover Shadow and Color depending how broad your conceptualization of it is.
5. Telekinesis could be potentially be folded into Force.
6. Metal seems sort of out of place.
7. You also have Nature, which Storm could technically be covered by.
8. Not exactly sure how you'd cover something like Contingency or Mnemonic Enhancer.
9. You have Travel and Transport, admittedly different based on your descriptions but perhaps no so much they couldn't be one.
10. Poison (new) could go under Acid or Nature, or Acid could be a part of Poison.
11. Fate sort of feels like a miscellaneous category; do you any specific examples?

Macrovore
2010-02-03, 02:02 PM
1. Well, it could. I'll have to see about that.
2. It is a combination of those three, and requires two of them in order to work. But it has things like call lightning, control weather, and storm of vengeance. This spell is meant to be more powerful than the others, but requires the others to cast.
3. Mask has things like Disguise self, misdirection, and mind blank, whereas Protect has things like Resist Energy, Evasion, and Death Ward
4. Figment is pretty much the illusion (figment) spells, like Minor Image, Mirror Image, and Mirage Arcana. Color has color spray, rainbow pattern, and the prismatic spells. Shadow has stuff like Shadow Evocation, which is why it is an advanced spell, because being able to duplicate other spells in a magic system in which the number of spells one knows is extremely limited.
5. Force is just force damage stuff. Telekinesis is levitate, launch item, and reverse gravity. And, of course, telekinesis.
6. Metal does seem out of place. When writing it, i was kind of strapped for ideas. All that went in to it were Blade Barrier, Ironwood, Wall of Iron, and, like, Wall of blades.
7. Nature is plant and animal stuff. Awaken, Entangle, Plant Growth, SNA
8. Contingency is hopefully not needed, as augments can alter casting times, and spells are spontaneous. Mnemonic enhancer becomes useless in a spontaneous, spell point system.
9. Well, Transport is teleportation, and Travel is longstrider, fly, and freedom of movement. The differences might be small enough to collapse them in to one.
10. The spell Poison, as well as Contagion, and Horrid Wilting, are covered under Blight.
11. I'm not too sure about Fate. It has luck effects, like Vision, and stuff that'll grant luck rerolls. I think. It may get axed.

I will grant that more of this will make sense after I enter in the spell descriptions. Nothing is actually statted yet, but I have the cantrips, augments, and spell names written for each seed.

Macrovore
2010-02-03, 04:02 PM
The rest of the spells are finished. Take a look at posts #2 and #3.

Macrovore
2010-02-05, 07:12 PM
bumping the thread

DaTedinator
2010-02-14, 11:02 PM
I think a priority should be coming up with an extremely general system for coming up with effects that a spellcaster should clearly be able to accomplish with a known spell, but for which there isn't actually a listed effect for. For example, someone with Fire who wants to make a pillar of flame, or someone with Confuse who wants to make a guard forget he ever saw her. It would be extremely ad hoc, of course, with little set in stone, but just a set of guidelines would be helpful, even if it just boils down to saying, "Use a spell from a splatbook," or, "Compare it to current spells."

Also, how much effort is being put into balancing the schools against each other? Because most of them seem pretty close except for Transmutation, which is huge. Even if you're not putting much effort into it, perhaps finding a way to split up Transmutation would be helpful? Or even just making some of the dual-school spells not dual-school.

Macrovore
2010-02-15, 12:32 AM
Crap, you're right. I forgot memory alteration. That should be in something. But pillar of flame is covered under Flame Strike. probably. But I should add in an ad hoc rule, like listing under each spell what it can do beyond the specific descriptions, with DM approval. For example, under the ad hoc definition for Fire, it would say "effects that create or control fire."

But maybe splitting Transmutation is a good thing. I personally am of a mindset to do away with spell schools altogether, or at least redesign them completely. As it stands, the Mage class has talents relating to each school, but I would likely rather have the talent trees relating to certain styles of magic (summoner, battle mage, artillerist, deceiver). Maybe we could figure out an alternate school system, perhaps based on talent trees, perhaps not.

How about:
Artillery
Enchantment
Illusion
Necromancy
Conjuration
Battle Magic
Protection
Alteration
Divination
Elemental.

DaTedinator
2010-02-16, 10:40 PM
I'm not entirely sure what "Artillery" or "Battle Magic" would be, but that's probably just a matter of names. I think, assuming they're relatively similar sizes/power levels, that sounds good. Better for this than the standard schools, certainly. I mean obviously it might need a little tweaking. But yeah.

Macrovore
2010-02-16, 10:52 PM
I figure artillery is evocation. we can probably rename it back to evocation. and Battle Magic is combat buff spells, both offensive and defensive. stuff that directly affects the caster's and his allies' combat abilities.

I don't know exactly how balanced each school will be against the others (evocation, for example, will likely have much more use in combat than divination spells), but each spell will have its purpose.