Neverwinter Nights 2

[BooNL]

So, I've owned NWN2 for a while now, but never really finished it.

The farthest I've got was somewhere past meeting Casavir and doing Old Owl Well. I got a bit bored by the bland campaign and the idiotic characters (my god that Casavir and Neeshka are annoying!).

After ploughing through my unfinished games I came upon this game again and though 'What the heck'. But before I go through the motions of installing and updating again, I ask you: is it worth it?

Will the campaign get better after Old Owl Well? Or am I stuck with the same level of bland fantasy universe?

Any fun stuff to do in game that I might have missed the first time? (note, when I say first time, I mean I must've played the part up until Neverwinter like 20 times)

Or should I just ditch the campaign and download a fan module? Any good modules out there?

I have NWN2+MOTB and I used to own SoZ, but can't find it anymore. I might buy another copy if I like the game enough.

[Jibar]

Funnily enough I recently started replaying it and picked up the expansion packs.
So, let me tell you, yes, it gets better after Old Owl Well. Much much better. Old Owl Well is pretty much the defining moment of suck and it all goes uphill. Act 3 is a bit off, but better than some of what's come before. Act 2 more than makes up for it by being actually honest to God interesting.

And Neeshka is adorable and you should love her like I do.

[MrPig]

I had fun with the game. Mask of the Betrayer, I thought was great with the exception of the annoying Spirit Hunger meter. Honestly, that thing almost ruined the game for me. Thankfully, there are console commands that made coping with it easier. I hate Storm of Zehir. Never got past the second quest. I dunno, it just rubbed me wrong.

[Comet]

The answer is always Mask of the Betrayer.
And Planescape: Purgatory, but that isn't out yet.

[Mando Knight]

I liked Casivir and Neeshka...

If your computer isn't completely up-to-date, you'll probably have some serious lag while walking around Blacklake. Just keep the camera facing away from where the lake is and you'll do better...

The game gets a touch more interesting after Old Owl Well, which is pretty much right at the end of Act 1. Early Act 2 is great for a diplomancer (I've run a Paladin who got the "Orator" story feat, stating that the Kalach-Cha's defense in the trial is going to be studied by paralegals and such for a long time), Sand is full of snobby snark, and you get your own castle in mid-to-late Act 2.

[Mushroom Ninja]

I had made it to the beginning of act 3 when my copy of NWN 2 suddenly disappeared. From what I remember, I really enjoyed it. Although some bits of the campaign were a bit cliche, at least it wasn't as obviously railroaded as NWN 1.

If I recall correctly, my character was a halfling Rogue/Assassin/Shadow Thief. Flanking with Neeshka was epic win.

EDIT:But yeah, I never let Cassivir in my party due to... alignment differences...

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I liked virtually all the characters, including Casavir, Neeshka and especially Khelgar.

Neverwinter Nights 2 is kind of hard to describe for me. It's like...it's like the PC RPG equivalent of a popcorn movie. There are RPGs out there that are better (BioWare's latest masterpieces, the Dragon Age and Mass Effect series being the most prominent), but if you go into it with moderate expectations, it won't let you down. It's based on D&D, and I feel it goes through all the cool bits and annoyances that any RL D&D campaign would go through.

If you go into Neverwinter Nights 2 expecting filet mignon, you're gonna be dissapointed. If you go in expecting a good hamburger, that's exactly what you'll get.

And Mask of the Betrayer kicks it up a notch to a decent steak.

[Mando Knight]

EDIT:But yeah, I never let Cassivir in my party due to... alignment differences...

Fun fact: in-party conversations have much less impact on your alignment than they would seem to. You can run a 90+ Lawful character who's absolutely adored by Qara, who at times is the definition of Chaotic Stupid.

[Strawberries]

Yes, old owl well it's probably the most boring quest of the game, but it really gets better. It's not at the levels of, say, Dragon age, but it's a fun game.


I got a bit bored by the bland campaign and the idiotic characters (my god that Casavir and Neeshka are annoying!).


I hated Casavir (but then, I pretty much hate all paladins, even if I usually play good characters), and the fact that he was the only romance option for a female character didn't help his case - I mean, what the hell? but I liked Neeshka a lot.

[Tavar]

You can run a 90+ Lawful character who's absolutely adored by Qara, who at times is the definition of Chaotic Stupid.
Fixed it for you.

[Grey Paladin]

Mask of the Betrayer is the closest thing you'll ever get to a sequel to Planescape: Torment. If you must get through the terribad campaign then so be it.

[warty goblin]

NWN 2 ranks with Mercenaries 2 in the list of games I absolutely regret having bought due to being aggresively mediocre in every way I care to imagine. I recommend going with Drakensang: The Dark Eye instead. It's every bit as dull and cliched in the main quest department, but somehow feels far, far less phoned in than NWN 2 does. Sure you help a pair of Stereotypical Dwarves clear their brewery celler of rats, but it's so enthusiastic I can't help but like it. I also find the RPG system far more natural and much less byzantine than the endless complications of D&D v3.5.

[deuxhero]

Play MoTB.OC is horrible, Mask is fairly good.

[Grey Paladin]

I also find the RPG system far more natural and much less byzantine than the endless complications of D&D v3.5.

WAT. That can't be right. As bad as NWN2 is its a thousand times better than Drakensang in the rules department

[warty goblin]

WAT. That can't be right. As bad as NWN2 is its a thousand times better than Drakensang in the rules department

I found Drakensang's system to be pretty intuitive, and to favor multiple specializations per party member, which is something I quite like. Thus I never ended up with a party member who only did one thing- and my main character at least was reasonably proficient as a secondary melee combatant, a spellcaster, a thief, and a socialite. She was totally hopeless with plant and animal lore however. Even my combat frontliners also doubled as herbalists and crafters, and I never felt that this diminished their melee ability all that much (technically I could have saved up all those skill points to raise their combat attributes, but those don't make very much difference, to the point where I think it arguable that forging better armor and weapons makes more of a difference in combat ability than a higher strength or dexterity would).

I also liked that upgrades did not generally come in discrete levels ala D&D, but were much more diffuse throughout gameplay. It made character development feel, at least to me, much more like somebody actually gaining proficiency over time instead of suddenly gaining new skills out of the blue. It helps that actual skills had to be learned from a trainer.

Plus the armor system was much more fun. I like purchasing pauldrons.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

What is this Drakensang of which you speak? Is that the game with the giant Cthulu-like babies invading at the end?

[warty goblin]

What is this Drakensang of which you speak? Is that the game with the giant Cthulu-like babies invading at the end?

I haven't beaten Drakensang yet, but given the game's rigid adherence to the Standard Fantasy Setting*, I really, really doubt it. My money is on me killing a dragon.

*You cannot, for instance, play as a female dwarf. Male amazons are also, disappointingly, prohibited. So much for my dream of playing a cross-dressing Xena...

Anyway, Drakensang: The Dark Eye is a rather enjoyable cRPG based on the Dark Eye ruleset, which is apparently a very popular tabletop RPG in Germany. Somehow it manages to be exactly what you'd expect a German RPG system to be like. It's developed by Radon Labs, previously responsible for a wide variety of shovelware, and a reasonably good graphics engine, which the game uses to good effect. Seriously, the lighting is the visual equivilent of your graphics card making sweet, sweet candlelit love to your eyeballs.

Gameplay wise it's quite close to NWN 2, but for some reason I find it about three hundred times more paletable. Probably because the camera isn't actively trying to make me ill, and the game doesn't throw buckets of consequenceless choices at me. Also you have to shop for individual pieces of armor. I recall finding steel knee guards was a major deal, since it raised my Amazon's leg armor by, I believe, two whole points.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I'm confused. The main character gave his tongue to a dragon or something to gain power or something, right, and the villain's an insane little girl who wants to summon the Cthulu babies do destroy the world, right? Or am I thinking of a different game?

Or is it that game that requires some kind of camera for your PS3 and you need cards to play it or something?

[warty goblin]

I'm confused. The main character gave his tongue to a dragon or something to gain power or something, right, and the villain's an insane little girl who wants to summon the Cthulu babies do destroy the world, right? Or am I thinking of a different game?

Or is it that game that requires some kind of camera for your PS3 and you need cards to play it or something?

Yeah, I'm leaning towards the 'confused' option here. I can certainly say that the PS3 and it's little camera is in no way involved in the Drakensang I know, since it's a PC only game.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I did some research. Yes, I was confused. I was thinking of the Eye of Judgment for the camera thing.

Still confused about the game. Have I seen it before?

[MrPig]

My god, I literally fell a sleep in the starting zone of Drakensang. I somehow managed to get to the first town and then completely gave up. Thank god I only paid 5 bucks for it during D2Ds 5 dollar deal days.

[warty goblin]

My god, I literally fell a sleep in the starting zone of Drakensang. I somehow managed to get to the first town and then completely gave up. Thank god I only paid 5 bucks for it during D2Ds 5 dollar deal days.
The starting zone (particularly the first thirty minutes of it) are remarkably dull I admit. Once you get to the town though I thought things began to get better. The companion roster fills up, and you get access to trainers, so you can get more combat skills which makes the battles much more interesting, and the quests start to pick up as well. The investigation doesn't hold a candle to Vizima Confidential in the Witcher (what does?), but I still found the narrative pleasantly done, and reasonably emotionally involving. Also, you get a really beautiful house- it's probably the only player house in any game I've ever played that I would actually want to live in. Having a caretaker with whiskers that totally awesome would be an advantage as well*.

*It's actually worth noting that the dwarves in Drakensang are generally an awesome lot. Not only do they have wonderful facial hair, but their tone is a bit more domestic and earthy than most fantasy dwarves. They still do the axe and ale routine, but it isn't 100% of their personality.

[Breltar]

I found storm of zehir to be the best of the bunch in all honesty because it is more free flowing and you can more easily choose your own path through the game.

Being able to make 4 out of 6 of your party members is pretty nice too, I heard one person made an all druid party and had a veritable zoo walking around.

[potatocubed]

Download the module Misery Stone and play that. It's far and away better than anything Obsidian put out for the game.

If you can still get Mysteries of Westgate, that's pretty good as well. You will be expected to pay for it though.

[BooNL]

Thanks for the comments guys, I'm glad to hear the game gets a *bit* better after act 1.
I must admit Neeshka isn't that terrible, but her voice makes me cringe everytime I hear it. Apparently The Valley is Hell, as that's where tieflings come from...
I hated the druid chick a lot more actually. Not only because I hate elves, but also because she's ugly and a creepy stalker.

You guys know of any good modules? Or maybe a couple of mods for the OC to make it a bit more enjoyable? (Say, a companion system like SoZ added to the OC, would totally play that)

Played Drakensang for a bit, and while the graphics were nice (really nice), somehow they felt... off for me. Also, the dialogue was blander than an unseasoned plate of white rice.

[Brother Oni]

I did some research. Yes, I was confused. I was thinking of the Eye of Judgment for the camera thing.

Still confused about the game. Have I seen it before?

The game you're thinking about is Dragon Dragoon, or Drakengard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drakengard)in the west.

Done by Square-Enix and it's best described as an action RPG-Dynasty Warriors-Dragon flight simulator mix.

It's fun, though the engine has its flaws (feels very clunky compared to Dynasty Warriors), but the story is the main selling point.

[potatocubed]

I hated the druid chick a lot more actually. Not only because I hate elves, but also because she's ugly and a creepy stalker.

Everyone hates Elanee. She has marginally less personality than the trees she loves so much. Sand, on the other hand, is wonderful. He's also an elf, but don't let that put you off.

On the subject of modules, go here (http://nwvault.ign.com) and get stuck in. You might want to check out the 'NWN2 OC Makeover SoZ Edition' which adds a whole bunch of stuff from SoZ to the original campaign.

Also, Misery Stone.

[Kish]

Everyone hates Elanee. Ahem. No.

...Of course, I gave up around Old Owl Well, due to the AI programming making the game unplayable.

[Avilan the Grey]

Ahem. No.

...Of course, I gave up around Old Owl Well, due to the AI programming making the game unplayable.

I like her too. And Neeshka. I don't see what's so annoying about her. NOw I can't stand mr "I want to be a monk".

[Drascin]

You know, I have this game. I even almost beat it. But I gave up in that triple-"lich" battle before the Lord of Shadows or whatever he's called in English, because the AI was infinitely stupid. It couldn't even finish doing an action I ordered it to do (namely, reading a Truename) which meant that if I wanted to use a Truename I had to do it personally, or control another character, start the action, and don't so much as click on another character for the twenty seconds or longer that it took to call a truename because if you shift control to something else the stupid game would stop casting. Being that, as a Cleric, I was the pure muscle in my group, twenty seconds without my help against three liches with access to level 8 spells tended to not end well.

So after the seventh or so attempt sabotaged by my own AI I simply sighed, looked if there were any worthwile modules, saw there weren't any yet, uninstalled, and got to playing something else.

I do wonder what the modders got up to in the meantime, though. Any really good modules and/or class/items/whatever mods?

[Brother Oni]

So after the seventh or so attempt sabotaged by my own AI I simply sighed, looked if there were any worthwile modules, saw there weren't any yet, uninstalled, and got to playing something else.


I forget exactly, but isn't there a puppet mode (the npcs don't use any ai and require direct input from you) and an auto-pause after every round option?

[Kish]

Puppet mode, yes. It doesn't stop them from randomly deciding to belay the orders you gave them, it just means that when they do, instead of doing something else, they stand there and drool on their shoes.

No auto-pause.

[Grumman]

I never finished the game - I think I stopped playing in Neverwinter, when I found out Khelgar couldn't multiclass and instead had to go fully one or the other.

I thought Neeshka was great. Admittedly, this might be partly because she was too busy disarming traps to do things like run into traps.

[potatocubed]

That truename fight was terrible, for precisely the reasons Drascin and Kish point out. When you get to the 'reading truename' part you have to take direct control of the character reading it and retain control until they're finished, or they just get bored and stop regardless of what AI settings you have. It took me several attempts to figure that out.

Of course, that meant I got to see the ending. Probably better that I hadn't.

[Douglas]

You know, I have this game. I even almost beat it. But I gave up in that triple-"lich" battle before the Lord of Shadows or whatever he's called in English, because the AI was infinitely stupid. It couldn't even finish doing an action I ordered it to do (namely, reading a Truename) which meant that if I wanted to use a Truename I had to do it personally, or control another character, start the action, and don't so much as click on another character for the twenty seconds or longer that it took to call a truename because if you shift control to something else the stupid game would stop casting. Being that, as a Cleric, I was the pure muscle in my group, twenty seconds without my help against three liches with access to level 8 spells tended to not end well.

Puppet mode, yes. It doesn't stop them from randomly deciding to belay the orders you gave them, it just means that when they do, instead of doing something else, they stand there and drool on their shoes.
That's news to me. It's been a while since I played through the original campaign, but I don't recall any problems like that on either of my playthroughs. Granted, the second one was an absurdly buffed clericzilla with Persistent Spell (I'm so glad I found a fan-made addon to reduce my entire buffing routine outside of combat to a single click and one round) where I actually wanted the "drool on their shoes" behavior (the main reason I didn't go solo is that I read somewhere that a lot of encounters are scaled to your party size, and I wanted full size encounters), but the warlock run needed his party and I don't recall any trouble with truename reading either time. You have to keep the truename reader well away from the battle so nothing disrupts it, but it should work without trouble.

Even if my memory is faulty on that or it changed in some patch, I imagine pausing, selecting the other characters and issuing orders, reselecting the truename reader, and unpausing should deal with it.

[Kiero]

I bought SoZ for the fan-modules. There's some pretty good ones out there, in their own ways better than the official campaigns.

For me MotB is ruined by the fact that epic-level combat in 3.5 is tediously magic-heavy.

SoZ is alright so far, just started it.

[Kislath]

My favorite part of the game was trying each encounter area with different blends of followers. Sometimes the combinations gave lame results, but sometimes they were absolutely GOLD!
For example, do you remember that weird mechanical lock that you need to find a part to make work, with ogres in the area behind it?
If you have Neeshka, she can of course figure out how to use it no problem. However, for real fun, try it with Khelgar and Grobnar instead. I promise you'll almost fall out of your chair laughing.
Even Qara has some really good lines, both dramatic and hilarious, if you give her the chance to say them.

I don't currently have NWN2 installed. As I understand it, it has some seriously nasty DRM stuff in it that might be part of the problems I had with my computer before having to reformat/reinstall everything. It's supposed to be very much like the stuff that Spore has? Does anyone know about this?

I did reinstall NWN 1, but now I'm having problems again, and my antivirus software certainly isn't happy about it. I still play it, though, even though I can no longer play Fallout 3 because it did something to my... something. Microsoft.com has a fix for it, but the site is down so I can't download it.

[Drakyn]

I'm going to needlessly repeat what everyone else has been saying and report that (since I beat it over the last month or so, I should know) NWN2's original campaign is heartily mediocre at best and the first couple acts are also just plain crud. As a matter of fact, despite the fact that the acts FOLLOWING them were superior, they somehow felt equally bland to me. Like eating a tub of margarine. Bland. The whole game was so supremely mediocre it somehow was also simultaneously terrible without actually ceasing to be mediocre.

Then I played Mask of the Betrayer and found out that it had fun companions, a non-sucky influence system outside of Dragon Age (even more forgiving, actually), gorgeous scenery, a neat plot, and basically everything the first game lacked, in exchange for three things:
-Relatively short game length. Entirely forgivable.
-Annoying removal of what would've seemed to be an entirely viable plot choice at the end, via what I have been told was editorial fiat. Very annoying, but livable.
-Only allowing three companions at a time when you can only recruit four out of five per playthrough. Entirely idiotic, but easily get-aroundable with a quick console command and then you can forget about it forever and ever.

[Mando Knight]

I don't currently have NWN2 installed. As I understand it, it has some seriously nasty DRM stuff in it that might be part of the problems I had with my computer before having to reformat/reinstall everything. It's supposed to be very much like the stuff that Spore has? Does anyone know about this?

It did, but then one of the updates went OMNOMNOM all over it, replacing it (eventually) with some interface updates, including (re?)introducing "recover trap" and fine-tuning the AI options (though it's still pretty stupid).

[Grey Paladin]

SNIP
PROTIP: Use Puppet Mode and micro every action.

[Mando Knight]

PROTIP: Use Puppet Mode and micro every action.

Or idiot-proof your tactics. In difficulty settings with axed PvP, fill up the party with melee guys and control Qara or some other spellcaster and nuke the place with SoD spells and Fireball. Shut off the computer's access to spells and prepare long-term buffs with Elanee, Grobnar, and/or Zjhave. Keep at least Casivir or Khelgar in your party if you aren't a melee character yourself, and always pack some kind of buff-bot like Grobnar or Zjhave. If you use Elanee, shut off the computer's access to special abilities for her so you can always choose to make her use Wild Shape as a decent animal, since the computer seems to weigh each option equally.

[Jibar]

Everyone hates Elanee. She has marginally less personality than the trees she loves so much. Sand, on the other hand, is wonderful. He's also an elf, but don't let that put you off.

On the subject of modules, go here (http://nwvault.ign.com) and get stuck in. You might want to check out the 'NWN2 OC Makeover SoZ Edition' which adds a whole bunch of stuff from SoZ to the original campaign.

Also, Misery Stone.

I'll be trying that Makeover mod soon. Storm of Zehir has a lot of really good ideas, like the more tabletop elements and making your own party but the campaign just isn't drawing me in.
Also the page for that mod mentions how to increase your party size, so I'm going to play the game with every companion with me at once and my own created party and see what happens.

[Kislath]

Did anyone else besides me think it odd that Sand is centuries old, but for some reason below your level? Then, after only a few weeks of hanging out with you, his levels soar.
I guess he spent all his time working solely on his speechcraft skill, eh?

[MrPig]

Did anyone else besides me think it odd that Sand is centuries old, but for some reason below your level? Then, after only a few weeks of hanging out with you, his levels soar.
I guess he spent all his time working solely on his speechcraft skill, eh?

It's probably because he "settled down" and didn't adventure. Then you come along and ruin his vacation time.

[Kiero]

The AI does seem to be better with SoZ; for example changing the spellcasting strategy actually works. My party mage no longer throws fireballs at goblins in the first round of combat, and runs through all the higher-level spells, she actually uses her crossbow.

[Mando Knight]

So I was doing quite well (I thought) and was cleaving through Fire Giants right and left. Then Tholapsyx decided she wanted all of the treasure. Lesson learned: don't fight a gargantuan Red without a plan. And possibly swapping out Elanee for Qara. And spamming no-save, no-SR spells. And distracting her with at least two super-heavy melee characters with fire immunity (actual or otherwise).