[3.5] Expedition to Castle Ravenloft?

[AslanCross]

My Red Hand of Doom campaign is about to end (at least it will probably be done by April or May), so I'm thinking of what to use next.

EtCR was one of the front runners and a couple of my players seem to want to go into horror for a change (our last horror adventure was never completed but they really liked it).

Since we enjoy Eberron, we're going to set it there. Most likely I'm going to be putting Barovia in the remote northeastern corner of Karrnath (always wanted to run an adventure there).

Does anyone have any advice regarding EtCR? Note: Please spoiler suggestions especially regarding monsters and plot elements, as my players do sometimes comb these forums.
Specifically advice regarding:
1. General tips on running it. Castle Ravenloft is an ENORMOUS dungeon, so I'm a bit intimidated by the detailed maps that it will require. Are any of the monsters particularly weak or particularly nasty? I typically have a group of 5 players whom I help optimize somewhat, so we won't have any monks or weapon focus fighters running around. I always use ToB as well. I have access to pretty much any WOTC book, so don't worry about sources.
The feel I want to give would be similar to Francis Ford Coppola's Dracula or maybe Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust. Granted, Bloodlust probably isn't so big on the horror, but with ToB, Psionics and Eberron, that might probably be what it would look like.

2. Tips on importing it into Eberron. The adventure does have some limited advice regarding playing it in Eberron, but there might be a bit more you guys can contribute.
I'm thinking of Strahd as officially sanctioned by Kaius or Vedim to carry out necromantic experiments, but due to his tragic love life he ended up going rogue and insane and thus a danger to Karrnath. That's all I have for now; I'm open to suggestions.

Thanks for your help!

[Shishnarfne]

Okay, I've run EtCR and played RHoD. My opinion is that they are similar in difficulty, but the difficulty shows up in different ways.

First general point: having premade maps of certain key areas can save time later (what can I say, I was board and had lots of spare paper bags; now I have plenty of tactical maps for the module).

Secondly, play Strahd smart. Remember his motivations and what's he's out to do. The PCs are not initially a threat to him, and he's aware of that... But don't be afraid to make sure that your party is afraid of him.

Look up key buffs your party can use to great effect in the module. Then avoid telling them. Classes will have differing power levels from normal: e.g. rogues, bards, and enchanters will be weaker while clerics and paladins shine. Don't let a paladin bring a unicorn mount into Ravenloft. Learn from my mistake. Truedeath crystals can be nasty, too. I don't need to mention specialized turning characters.

Alternative class features may make it more feasible.

Specific advice on Strahd:

The module makes him a necromancy specialist who bars abjuration and illusion. I would swap one of those (abjuration) for enchantment. Why does a vampire with Dominate at-will need enchantment??? Don't be afraid to play his spells mean and use them in conjunction with his Dominate for best effect. Strahd always gets the girl. Figure out how to combine spells and dominate to make it happen.
Don't be afraid to have him employ hit and run tactics to soften up the party without allowing them to hurt him. Even if he doesn't hurt them badly, it's more effective psychologically for him to leave the fight on his terms, especially if the party hasn't been able to hurt him much. Being able to reduce him into vapor on their terms will give the party a big confidence boost.

If your party wants any resurrection magic, they'll need the druid spell list or to be nearly done with the module. Adjust accordingly.

Don't be afraid to adjust his minions for better optimization to match your needs, too.

I think that Sasha's stat block (and Rafail's, too) is put together incorrectly. You might want to redo them anyway to make sure they're competitive. Have fun with Rafail's sword. :smallbiggrin:

My experience is that Ravenloft will try to catch your party off-guard, rather than out-gunned, as is more the case in Red Hand. It takes a different approach to succeed.

The werewolves always come across as wimpy, to me. Some of the golems, especially nasty. There are a few very cruel traps in the lair: ones that will likely kill someone if the party isn't careful.

Nicoramus is an especially vicious fight. My first group wound up as afraid of Madam Eva as they were of Strahd! The old lady sure can pack a wallop... Generally, if you expect something looks tough, it probably is.

Watch timing of the moon to try to get the players to respond accordingly if you go for the "Brook no Rival" or "Forest Allies" motivations.

Oh, and my parties have usually wound up wanting to kill the merchant... They haven't done it yet, but they've wanted to do so.

The NPC lifespan for good-aligned and in combat is disturbingly short. Feel free to (not) adjust to your preferences.

Again, my advice is to read through all the encounters carefully in advance. Yes, the module cheats in the church fight... I usually play it as written, though. Read up on spell/ability descriptions in advance, if they are likely to come up.

My belief, as a DM, is that the party should always feel that they are *not safe* in the module. They will need to adjust to nightly interruptions, being toyed with, and a foe who is beyond their power.

Remember, it's Ravenloft, it's not supposed to be easy, but it should still be fair.

[Myou]

Having run EtCR I'd sugest reading the whole thing carefully before hand, and eschewing maps to let players visualise it themselves - otherwise you'll be drawing maps forever.

I advanced Strahd a few levels to make him a bigger challenge, and also upped the power of most monsters, but the module as a whole was just fine.

[Thurbane]

Great stuff...I'm soon to run this for my group (we'll be wrapping up EttRoG in the next few session, and everyone has already rolled up their EtCR characters*). I'll eagerly be watching this thread for tips. :smallbiggrin:

Human Paladin (Charging Smite variant) 6
Wood Elf Barbarian 6
Human Cloistered Cleric 6
Desert Elf Ranger (Trapfinding variant) 6
Gray Elf Sorcerer (Spell Shield variant) 6
Dwarf Duskblade 6

[AslanCross]

Shishnarfne> Thanks, that's a lot of advice. :smallbiggrin: I'll read through it in detail again later.

Myou> Hmmm. That may be a good suggestion, though I doubt I'll find it easy to wean my players (and myself) off minis. It will be during summer break anyway, so I guess I'll have enough time to draw maps.

[Myou]

Shishnarfne> Thanks, that's a lot of advice. :smallbiggrin: I'll read through it in detail again later.

Myou> Hmmm. That may be a good suggestion, though I doubt I'll find it easy to wean my players (and myself) off minis. It will be during summer break anyway, so I guess I'll have enough time to draw maps.

Well, if you do want to use maps then you're going to have to spend ages on them, they all link together in a huge multi-level dungeon when you reach the castle, you might want to set up some sort of multi-level board to display them on, like this; http://images-a.hayneedle.com/mgen/digimarc.ms?img=master:CI241.jpg&h=368&w=368 , just using glass/plastic sheets and brick/books/whatever as stands, so that the maps make some sort of sense to the players (and to you, the maps get confusing).

[potatocubed]

I haven't run - or even read - the module, but here's a thought:

The PCs should never, ever be willing to go off on their own. They get separate rooms at the inn? O hai Strahd. One of them gets lost in a dark forest? Sudden Strahd. One of them goes around a corner ahead of the others? Strahd.

Now, ambushing and cacking members of the party is easy and cheap, so don't do it. Instead, ambush them and implant suggestions that will come back to haunt them (literally) if they breach his castle. Have him drink some blood and use a custom spell to blank the character's memory of the event. Have him harrass the characters with nightmare spells if he's high enough level. (Usefully preventing spellcasters from recovering their magic, if I remember correctly.) Alternatively, have him victimise NPCs the characters care about. Let them try to stop him.

The other way I would heighten tension is by not actually showing Strahd unless the characters make a special effort. Let them see only the effects of his passing. Strahd's got magic, shapeshifting, and spooky vampire stealth. No one is going to see him going about the place unless he wants them to. If he picks on the PCs directly, give the victim a Will save vs. his dominate power. If it fails, then don't run the encounter. Roll only what dice are necessary (more saves vs. suggestions, for example) and skip to the next day. The first the character knows about it is that he wakes up feeling kind of weak and the other party members are making Spot checks to see the bite marks on his neck. They might remember a tall man in a cape...

(Yes, it's a bit arbitrary, but so long as you don't do anything too horrible you should get away with it.)

To answer an earlier point, I think the reason Strahd has access to Enchantment spells because they give him wonderful opportunities to screw with the player characters. Abjuration, not so much. Plus, if someone saves against his domination gaze they're still vulnerable to his other mind-affecting spells.

[Optimystik]

On the topic of converting it to Eberron, your players will obviously go in expecting undead. To mix things up, I think a living spell or two might be a nice game-changer for the module. Have your players fought those yet?

[AslanCross]

I haven't run - or even read - the module, but here's a thought:

The PCs should never, ever be willing to go off on their own. They get separate rooms at the inn? O hai Strahd. One of them gets lost in a dark forest? Sudden Strahd. One of them goes around a corner ahead of the others? Strahd.

Now, ambushing and cacking members of the party is easy and cheap, so don't do it. Instead, ambush them and implant suggestions that will come back to haunt them (literally) if they breach his castle. Have him drink some blood and use a custom spell to blank the character's memory of the event. Have him harrass the characters with nightmare spells if he's high enough level. (Usefully preventing spellcasters from recovering their magic, if I remember correctly.) Alternatively, have him victimise NPCs the characters care about. Let them try to stop him.

The other way I would heighten tension is by not actually showing Strahd unless the characters make a special effort. Let them see only the effects of his passing. Strahd's got magic, shapeshifting, and spooky vampire stealth. No one is going to see him going about the place unless he wants them to. If he picks on the PCs directly, give the victim a Will save vs. his dominate power. If it fails, then don't run the encounter. Roll only what dice are necessary (more saves vs. suggestions, for example) and skip to the next day. The first the character knows about it is that he wakes up feeling kind of weak and the other party members are making Spot checks to see the bite marks on his neck. They might remember a tall man in a cape...

(Yes, it's a bit arbitrary, but so long as you don't do anything too horrible you should get away with it.)

To answer an earlier point, I think the reason Strahd has access to Enchantment spells because they give him wonderful opportunities to screw with the player characters. Abjuration, not so much. Plus, if someone saves against his domination gaze they're still vulnerable to his other mind-affecting spells.

Ah, yes. The adventure makes for a lot of mindscrew moments, actually. Thanks for the additional suggestions. :smallbiggrin:


On the topic of converting it to Eberron, your players will obviously go in expecting undead. To mix things up, I think a living spell or two might be a nice game-changer for the module. Have your players fought those yet?

Ooh, good idea. They haven't fought any of those yet. There are a whole bunch of places I can put those. :smallbiggrin:

[AirGuitarGod32]

I am also on the verge of running a Ravenloft-esq campaign based on an Undead Apocolypse. I suggest, not only a fair hand of terrifying non-undead foes, such as Werewolves and other beasties, but make the undead unique.

For instance, in the first combat encounter, the PCs'll face zombies. However, these zombies act more like the Elite Zombies from Left 4 Dead, using the Quick and by giving them "pack tactics," like have a few in front while a few flank the party.

Be assured however, a nice big undead colossus, such as a Stone Giant Wight with levels in a melee class (might I suggest Barbarian in this instance) makes an excellent "solo" monster for the party to encounter

[Haberdashery]

Actually, one thing I'd recommend is trying to get a hold of the original 1st edition module. I've read through both, and while the original module is more generic as far as plotline and resolution, it fills in a lot of plotholes that the current module leaves wide open. Like, the 3.5 version has no ending, and lists no hints as to what an ending should be like, whereas the 1st edition one does have an ending. It also explains certain things that the 3.5 edition one just doesn't bother explaining, which might help you organize things better and create a better scenario that your players can grasp more effectively. I personally found myself a little confused in a few areas in the current version. Also, the 1st edition one has excellent quality maps, seen from exactly a bird's eye view and not so tiny you have to squint to see how many squares are in a particular room (or guess how many squares there are due to the strange perspective).

[Eldariel]

Ooh, good idea. They haven't fought any of those yet. There are a whole bunch of places I can put those. :smallbiggrin:

Also, animated objects. Seriously, what evil Wizard's castle is complete without some rugs and chandeliers and Gargoyles making surprise attacks on the players? Preferably when it's the most trouble like when they're dealing with some ailment or undead attack or some such.

[Deth Muncher]

Also, animated objects. Seriously, what evil Wizard's castle is complete without some rugs and chandeliers and Gargoyles making surprise attacks on the players? Preferably when it's the most trouble like when they're dealing with some ailment or undead attack or some such.

To really confuse your players, you should have both Gargoyles as well as Animated Statues that look like Gargoyles. Put those Knowledge checks to good use!

[AslanCross]

I am also on the verge of running a Ravenloft-esq campaign based on an Undead Apocolypse. I suggest, not only a fair hand of terrifying non-undead foes, such as Werewolves and other beasties, but make the undead unique.

For instance, in the first combat encounter, the PCs'll face zombies. However, these zombies act more like the Elite Zombies from Left 4 Dead, using the Quick and by giving them "pack tactics," like have a few in front while a few flank the party.

Be assured however, a nice big undead colossus, such as a Stone Giant Wight with levels in a melee class (might I suggest Barbarian in this instance) makes an excellent "solo" monster for the party to encounter

Interesting suggestions. The zombies in Ravenloft are actually very different from the standard zombies. They're extremely hard to kill. A stone giant wight might be way too strong. The adventure is only levels 6-10. I'm instead looking at the Plague Spewer from MM3.

[AirGuitarGod32]

Interesting suggestions. The zombies in Ravenloft are actually very different from the standard zombies. They're extremely hard to kill. A stone giant wight might be way too strong. The adventure is only levels 6-10. I'm instead looking at the Plague Spewer from MM3.

The wight isn't for low level!

Its supposed to be a stronger foe for later levels.

And I say don't just focus on zombies. Any undead can be modified to be more dangerous

[Shishnarfne]

Ok, I realize now two things about my advice: first, it was too long; second, I forgot one specific tidbit.

Specific tidbit for Eberron: check out the warforged immunities... one of your players probably will.

A quick condensation of my previous advice: Guess the most likely places the players could go in your next session. Read up on those and any likely rules questions (e.g. spell descriptions for certain scrolls/traps). Play the villains smart (and don't be afraid to tweak them for greater effect). Know your party's capabilities and adjust accordingly.

Never let the party cleric turn Strahd successfully (especially if they have Greater Turning); it's too anticlimactic.

Have fun, and I hope your players enjoy the challenge.

[Seatbelt]

Never let the party cleric turn Strahd successfully (especially if they have Greater Turning); it's too anticlimactic.



Quoted for truth. My party did some crazy things with blood gods and dark rituals though. So I had "killing Strahd" break the castle free from Ravenloft and set it adrift on the Astral plane. I gave Strahd a bunch of levels, gave him the legendary vampire lord template stuff from the old Ravenloft 3.0 setting (updated where necessary) and the evolved undead template from Libris Mortis. I think he was CR 21 when I was finished with him. That turned out to be a pretty epic fight. The party was ECL 14. So he was strong for them, but they were powergamed pretty well so it worked out.

[PlzBreakMyCmpAn]

Never let the party cleric turn Strahd successfully (especially if they have Greater Turning)It's a good thing I aint in your campaigns.

Oh I wouldn't kill your undead BBEG's - I'd make them my b*tch for all eternity. That is unless the DM either fiats in the annoying way mentioned or pumps the HD over 150. :smallsigh: