View Full Version : Sorcerer rebuilding. Your input desired.

2010-02-03, 07:10 PM
Hey guys,
A campaign I'm in is about to enter what we're calling the third "season."
At the end of the second Season, the PCs broke out of a dream world they were placed in after sort of failing to complete a sealing ritual in the First.

In this dream world, we were given super elite stats (18,18,17,16,15,14) and basically started our characters over at level 1, however we leveled pretty fast. Breaking out required a return to the Pyramid where the ritual took place and returning an artifact to its resting place. (More on that later) We made it back home, but were weakened in the process, sort of.
We took a -3 hit to all stats, except for our primary, which gained a +2. We came out of it stronger, sort of, and along with our nerfed stats the DM is giving us a chance to rebuild our PCs accordingly.

So with that out of the way; meet Icarus. (go figure)

Icarus is the progeny of two NPCs from a generation prior, and the aforementioned artifact. Racially, he is basically a half-elf with the dragonblood subtype and a bonus feat, the two abilities being unlocked via storyline.
Icarus is a descendant of what our DM called the Prime Dragon, from which all seven true dragons in the game world came from. (Only 7, its a recurring theme) For intents and purposes, The Prime is a Prismatic Dragon.

After learning all this backstory, I started working toward Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil. It seemed appropriate. The PC is designed to be very confident with his magical abilities, and utilizes spells that hinder others or offer magical superiority on the battlefield. Anyway, here's the build:

Icarus, Archmage of the Sevenfold Veil
Sorcerer 9/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7/Archmage 4
(stats have items included)
Str 10, Dex 20, Con 24, Int 14, Wis 16, Cha 36
*Eschew Materials-(Free for Sorcerers)
1)-Spell Focus: Abjuration
-Skill Focus: Spellcraft
3)-Greater Spell Focus
6)-Spell Focus: Evocation
12)- (Open)
15)-Arcane Mastery
18)- (Open)

Spells: This is where I'm having the biggest problem making decisions. I already have in place the ones I really, really want in the build, along with the reason. The open spaces are the problem. Also, keep in mind I have a runestaff I'm allowed to build with 7 slots available. (Limits here are that they can't all be 3/day)

0-Dancing Lights
-Silent Portal
-Mage Hand

1-Protection from Evil
-Benign Transposition- Berserker charges, replace him with the party armor ball. Berserker is free to charge again.
-Silent Image- Just fun, and keeps the PC Frenzied Berserker happy after the fight is over
-Backbiter- Lovely when used after dispelling baddie's weapon, espically when they're hard to hit.
(True Casting is an option. Its probably overkill with Assay SR however.)

2-Ray of Stupidity- Ending a battle against dumb things that hit hard in the first round saves a lot of resources.
-Blinding Color Surge- The spell description is too cool. Had to do it.
-Wings of Cover- Fits the "protector" niche and is really, really useful
-Shatter- Another favorite with dispel magic followups
(I was thinking either Stolen breath from SpC or Sure Strike, since the DM likes his Dex monkeys)

3-Blacklight- Invisibility without the pain of worrying about See Invisibility
-Flashburst- Blindness in a HUGE area. Great way to end a battle before it begins, or just to get around unnoticed
-Spellcaster's Bane- Untyped bonus to dispel checks. With this and Arcane Mastery you'll rarely fail a check
-Ray of Dizziness- Lowering an enemies movement choices is really good.
(Other possibilities include Shrink Item and Dragonskin)

4-Enervation- Helps make sure your spells with saves get through
-Dimensional Anchor- No, you ARE staying to fight. This combined with well placed Refusals is amazing.
-Assay Spell Resistance

5-Telekinesis- Throw stuff into prismatic walls, grapple ghosts, surf on dead bodies. Tons of uses.
-Lucent Lance- If it hits, they're blind for a round, opening up all sorts of chances for bad things to happen to them.
-Refusal- At levels when everything has SLA's, this spell is wonderful for controlling enemy movement.
(I really like Greater Blink from the SpC; lots of out of combat uses and a 50% miss chance that can't be beat by true seeing. I like Arcane Fusion, but I like the higher level version better. Plus, there aren't very many good combos on my spell list to have this for. Friend to Foe from PhB II seems fun. Useful for causing assured chaos among lower level targets. The old standbys- Teleport, and Feeblemind could be useful too.

6-Greater Dispel
-Ruby Ray of Reversal- Tons of in and out of combat uses. A favorite tactic with my group is using it to put a 5 ft hole in a resilient sphere, putting a warding over the hole and going to town. Even more fun with a telekinetic sphere.
(Analyze Dweomer is high on the list, because of prereqs for Archmage and knowing all buffs on your opponent is extremely valuable; plus identifying items is nice. Greater Anticipate Teleportation is very nice, but a base duration of 24 hours makes it a waste of a slot. That goes on a Runestaff. In my opinion, there are relatively few good choices for a sorcerer in this level.)

7-Reverse Gravity- Because its Reverse Gravity
-Radiant Assault- AoE that targets will. With the penalty on a failed save being dazed, this works on a lot of stuff.
(Greater Arcane Sight is a possibility, though this and Analyze dweomer is a bit overkill, since they basically do the same thing. Arcane Spellsurge is very, very probable. It will at least earn a 3/day spot on the runestaff. Limited Wish wouldn't be bad. Plane shift has its uses both for offense and travel, and Final Rebuke is a SoD that targets will, with a failed save resulting in being dazed. Its a really nice one.)

8-Prismatic Wall- This one stays. The party Berserker loves bull rushing guys into them.
-Sunburst- Blinds, Kills undead real good, Fits PC concept. I loves it.
(Wrathful Castigation comes up if Final rebuke isn't taken, as does Irresistible Dance and Greater Arcane Fusion. Ghostform would also be nice, though I wouldn't take both it and Greater Blink
9-Reaving Dispel
-Prismatic Deluge
-Sphere of Ultimate Destruction
First thing: I did have chain spell and a requisite metamagic feat, but didn't get much use out of it (usually fought one big thing other than lots of stuff); so I'm looking for something to put here.

My only real restriction is that we don't openly use the Settings books, such as faerun and the like. I don't really like many of the alternate class options since they get rid of the familiar. My PC's frog is as much a personality in the game as the other PCs are.

Alright. I think I covered everything important. Questions, ideas, thoughts, are welcome. I'm just a little brain dead helping the other guys with their builds, too.

Pharaoh's Fist
2010-02-03, 07:32 PM
You should take your 7th level as a prestige class.

Perhaps Sorc6/Ruathar3/IotSV7/AM4? Very feat intensive though.

2010-02-03, 08:38 PM
If you want a 50% miss chance that's not beat by True Seeing, you could try Shadow Phase (Spell Compendium). The spell fluff says you're partially incorporeal, but there's no listed way to bypass it at all. It's basically Displacement+.

Limited Wish is great to have for it's (example) -7 on next save use, and you can also use it to duplicate Psychic Reformation (magic psionics transparency) and rebuild your last few levels mid combat if you need to. And having Heal or Raise Dead available when you need it is good. By the level you're at, the 300xp isn't hard to soak at all as long as you don't cast it every single fight.

You don't seem to have any metamagic feats. Empower Spell is good if you need to deal damage, but you don't have many of those so it may not be the best choice. If you ever have any problems getting your area spells around your allies, try Shape Spell: even in a small area you can turn the four 10' cubes on their corners and target people indivudually.

Really, it's looks like you've got yourself covered. You've got lots of spells to mess with other people's spells, some nasty tricks, and your party works together to maximize your effectiveness even though you don't have any explicit control or save/lose spells.

2010-02-03, 10:48 PM
If you want a 50% miss chance that's not beat by True Seeing, you could try Shadow Phase (Spell Compendium). The spell fluff says you're partially incorporeal, but there's no listed way to bypass it at all. It's basically Displacement+.
This one had me excited; however the miss chance drops to 20% against magic weapons and spells. Sad face.

I love me some limited wish. I'm taking it into consideration.

I guess I should have included the High Arcana I'm using in this build.
Its a mostly melee party, so Mastery of Shaping is a must.
Other ones I took were Mastery of Counterspelling, Time Stop 2/day, and Spell Power.
I am looking to fill the last two feat slots with metamagic feats, just mulling over which ones to take. Elven spell lore might not be so bad either since I'll be utilizing dispels frequently.

As for filling in the levels with another PrC, if I find something that's easy to get into that makes sense to the concept of the character, I'll see about making it work. I'm not a fan of excessive class dipping, but sorcerer levels are pretty sparse.

2010-02-04, 05:01 AM
This one had me excited; however the miss chance drops to 20% against magic weapons and spells. Sad face.
What? *Checks spell* Huh, never saw that part before. I will also sad face :smallfrown:

Pharaoh's Fist
2010-02-04, 08:42 AM
As for filling in the levels with another PrC, if I find something that's easy to get into that makes sense to the concept of the character, I'll see about making it work. I'm not a fan of excessive class dipping, but sorcerer levels are pretty sparse.

The great thing about Ruathar is that it is only 3 levels long anyways, and explains why you have Elven Spell Lore. Plus, you automatically qualify for it at 6th level.

2010-02-04, 09:25 AM
You have almost no metamagic feats... this makes me a sad panda.

Some time after 9th level, grab Rapid Metamagic feat to be able to use Metamagic spells spontaneously without making them a full-round action. It is similar to the PhM II ACF which replaces familiar, only it is unlimited, rather than being keyed off your Int (for a CHA-based class...)

Once you do that, things like Quicken Spell open up as possible, and you'll want action-economy breakers like Split Ray (for Enervation and the like), Twin Spell, as well as DC-enhancing ones like Heighten Spell, and if you are particularly paranoid, get things like Still and Silent Spell.

Fell Drain is a fun one to toss on things like Magic Missile to give negative levels to *all* opponents, no save.

Also, I didn't see Celerity on your spell list. This also makes me a sad panda. It is an interrupt-action, that gives you a standard action, then stuns you for the next round.

Why is that useful? Contingency Celerity upon my being the target of an attack or negative effect. Why is that fun? Use the action to cast Time Stop. I go first. If you go first, I still go first.

I also do not see Greater Prying Eyes, which makes me sad. It is True Sight without the material component, and so much more.

I also do not see Disintegrate. Sometimes, you just need to turn your opponent into a pile of dust.

Haste/Slow are also absent. If you don't get them, make sure someone else does. They are devastating in a melee-heavy group.

Greater Shadow Evocation is an 8th level spell, but a deadly useful one. Why? Contingency without focus. Forcecage without blowing $1500 a pop. Wall of Force. All those Evocation spells you ever wanted to cast, but were to ashamed to admit it. All wrapped up in one handy-dandy spell.

Grease. Where is it? This shuts down a FB much easier than Silent Image. They auto-fail the balance check, and remain prone until he calms down.

Magic Missile. It's fun. Even more fun when mixed with metamagic.

2010-02-04, 10:01 AM
As for celerity, it just filled in my last 4th level slot. I have other stuff I want on my runestaff.

As for the feats listed, I'll be relying more on arcane fusion and arcane spellsurge to throw around quickened spells. Twin spell and maybe empower or silent are going to fill in my feat slots I think.

Disintegrate doesn't make the cut because there's nothing stopping you from having more than one Sphere of Ultimate Destruction on the field. Not being able to move all of them at one time doesn't matter when the target can't move in the first place. Since its a round/level, its also nice for quick excavations and writing my name in the ground.

Many of the party members already have lots of effects that don't stack with haste, and ray of dizziness fills in for slow quite well, especially since we decided not to nitpick Chain Spell and let it affect rays.

Shadow Evocation/conjuration is nice, and even though its covered elsewhere in the party, I still have it as a possible if only for the reasons mentioned.

Prying eyes is nice. A fellow caster in the party already has it, and if we really, really need lots of scouting I can reaving dispel them so we can both make use of it. Speaking of Reaving Dispel...

That spell is why you don't see many of the usual culprits. Greater Mage armor, shield, elemental body, and various others are covered by the other caster, who is playing an Abjurant Champion/Argent Savant, so his force armor is really good. He doesn't even mind sharing. Plus, the DM likes his spell buffs. I like them even better.

edit: spelling, added celerity to spell list