Skills for mindless things

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Players, go away. Tal, that means you.

I'm having 2 separate issues with making mindless things able to hide. The party is EPL 6, and can generally take CR 7 encounters several times a day. I plan to have them ambushed a couple times, but the mooks in the encounters are making that difficult. Is there any way of getting Hide ranks onto a Skeleton, specifically, a Leopard created by a Dread Necromancer focused on making undead?

Similarly, is there any way of improving an Assassin Vine's Camouflage ability that doesn't involve Dragons having sex with trees or similar idiocy?

In either case, I prefer to run by RAW, since if I can't challenge my players with the same rules they use, I shouldn't DM.

[Fishy]

Well, there's Vile Death, which would give the skeleton panther the Fiendish template and INT 3, but that's a 9th level spell.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Yeah, not happening. The DN is 10 or 12, and no NPC is above 15. And the players would assume that it's a half-fiend skeleton anyways, which is the sort of discussion I'm trying to prevent. :smallwink:

[Yuki Akuma]

Make the skeletons invisible. +20 to Hide checks right there

[Zaq]

Similarly, is there any way of improving an Assassin Vine's Camouflage ability that doesn't involve Dragons having sex with trees or similar idiocy?

Isn't a dragon's willingness to bang everything that has stats the sole non-idiotic thing about them (in WotC fluff)? That's how I always felt, anyway.
I don't have anything to actually add to this conversation.

[KillianHawkeye]

Is there any way of getting Hide ranks onto a Skeleton, specifically, a Leopard created by a Dread Necromancer focused on making undead?

Instead of Skeleton, use the Bone Creature template from Book of Vile Darkness. It requires create undead which is a 6th level spell for Dread Necromancers, meaning that he'll have to be level 12. Bone Creatures are basically the same as Skeletons except they retain their Int scores and all their previous feats, skills, and classes.

[Fishy]

There are Dread Necromancers that don't take Versatile Spellcaster?

If you have the second coolest feat for Dread Necros, you can do it just fine at level 10.

[KillianHawkeye]

There are Dread Necromancers that don't take Versatile Spellcaster?

I didn't want to assume. :smallwink:

He said the guy would be level 10 or 12 anyway.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Bone Creature is perfect, though I now need to remake the statblocks.

Any advice on the plant?

[JoshuaZ]

Have you statted out what spells the DN took for Advanced Learning? If not consider Awaken Undead from Libris Mortis which make unintelligent undead intelligent.

[KillianHawkeye]

Any advice on the plant?

I don't think there's anything you can do about that, mate. Nothing I've ever seen, at least. :smallsigh:

[Dimers]

is there any way of improving an Assassin Vine's Camouflage ability that doesn't involve Dragons having sex with trees or similar idiocy?

Ehhh ... awaken it and pump its Hide skill, maybe? Invisibility, again? Or create a distraction nearby, penalizing the PCs' rolls by -4?

[Saph]

Similarly, is there any way of improving an Assassin Vine's Camouflage ability that doesn't involve Dragons having sex with trees or similar idiocy?

In either case, I prefer to run by RAW, since if I can't challenge my players with the same rules they use, I shouldn't DM.

You've got two conflicting requirements there. The Assassin Vine's Camouflage ability reads:


Camouflage (Ex)
Since an assassin vine looks like a normal plant when at rest, it takes a DC 20 Spot check to notice it before it attacks.

Anyone with ranks in Survival or Knowledge (nature) can use one of those skills instead of Spot to notice the plant. Dwarves can use stonecunning to notice the subterranean version.

In other words, it's a completely arbitrary ability thrown on there by the designer, rather than just giving it a bonus to Hide or somesuch. The whole point of being the designer/DM is that you get to do that.

You could just have someone cast camouflage, mass on it or similar. That would boost its hide checks . . . which, by RAW, does nothing. Unless you just say that boosts the spot DC by +10, which would be logical.Up to you, but I'm not aware of any template or whatever that boosts a non-variable number in a monster's statblock.

[Hiisi]

Just put the skeleton behind a big rock and call it a day. They can't see behind it. Camoflauge, invisibility and circumstance bonuses come into mind aswell.

Seriously this seems like a silly thing to worry about, even if you want to run things by RAW. Isn't Rule 0 in dungeon masters guide? :P

[faceroll]

Yeah, not happening. The DN is 10 or 12, and no NPC is above 15. And the players would assume that it's a half-fiend skeleton anyways, which is the sort of discussion I'm trying to prevent. :smallwink:

Well, if you don't mind introducing rituals into your campaign, you could have an altar the dread necro is using to bind fiends to skeletons (effectively casts Vile Death 1/day).

Otherwise, I think this is probably your best bet:


Make the skeletons invisible. +20 to Hide checks right there


Bone Creature is perfect, though I now need to remake the statblocks.

Any advice on the plant?

Nevermind; go with bone creature.

If you put the Fiendish & Dark template on the vine, it gets HiPS and skills.