PDA

View Full Version : psionics and armor



alisbin
2010-02-04, 09:54 AM
hey mates,
i'm playing a psion (telepath/thrallherd) and i've been considering a 2 level dip into fighter for a few extra HP and medium/heavy armor. is there a good prestige class that i should consider instead?
or am i reading the rules wrong and is this a REALLY bad idea :)

Blackfang108
2010-02-04, 10:01 AM
hey mates,
i'm playing a psion (telepath/thrallherd) and i've been considering a 2 level dip into fighter for a few extra HP and medium/heavy armor. is there a good prestige class that i should consider instead?
or am i reading the rules wrong and is this a REALLY bad idea :)

Take Practiced Manifester.

Two levels seems a bit much.

Heavy Armor won't impede your casting.

EDIT: and i'd recommend Divine Mind over Fighter. At least then you'll get some extra PP. You still get d10 HD and Heavy Armor Prof.

kamikasei
2010-02-04, 10:03 AM
You're reading the rules correctly in that you don't have an equivalent of arcane spell failure and can wear armor without any detrimental effect on your powers.

On the other hand, keeping up your manifester level, power point progression, etc. is likely to be much more valuable than a few hit points and armor.

Douglas
2010-02-04, 10:05 AM
Try Slayer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/slayer.htm) instead.

Starbuck_II
2010-02-04, 10:08 AM
hey mates,
i'm playing a psion (telepath/thrallherd) and i've been considering a 2 level dip into fighter for a few extra HP and medium/heavy armor. is there a good prestige class that i should consider instead?
or am i reading the rules wrong and is this a REALLY bad idea :)

Yes, as Arcane spell failure only affects arcane casters. Divine, Psionic, etc don't care.

Tavar
2010-02-04, 10:17 AM
Unless you use powers that require attack rolls, you can always just wear the armor anyways; the only penalty for non proficiency is that you take the Armor check penalty to Attack rolls.

alisbin
2010-02-04, 10:20 AM
i am planning to get practiced manifester, (i lose 2 ML over 10 levels of thrallherd so i need it anyway). i'll look into the suggestions, what book is divine mind in?

Quirinus_Obsidian
2010-02-04, 10:21 AM
Try Slayer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/slayer.htm) instead.

Agreed. You only lose one manifester level, and you gain so much more than just a couple of feats.

alisbin
2010-02-04, 10:25 AM
just a build note, i would never end up taking more then 5 levels of whatever i dip into, i'm taking psion to 5, then at least 3 thrallherd levels, then maybe 1 or 2 of a dip, go to 10 for thrallherd then either finish my dip or dip something else. i'm human so i can take one low level dip completely freely.
also, i do not in fact have many attack powers (thats for the thrall) but i do try to use my spear to aid our warrior.

Optimystik
2010-02-04, 10:31 AM
EDIT: and i'd recommend Divine Mind over Fighter. At least then you'll get some extra PP. You still get d10 HD and Heavy Armor Prof.

Divine Mind is an awful choice. A DM dip will only give you 2PP (Wild Talent), a tiny aura, plus the bonus from your Wis mod.

Go with Psychic Warrior instead. Instead of 2 piddly PP, you get a bonus psionic feat, and you still get the Heavy Armor prof. You also still get the bonus from your Wis mod (if you have one.) the only thing you lose is d8 vs. d10, which is no big loss compared to a free feat.


Unless you use powers that require attack rolls, you can always just wear the armor anyways; the only penalty for non proficiency is that you take the Armor check penalty to Attack rolls.

Bad idea. The penalty applies to all Strength and Dexterity based ability checks - that includes Initiative. Do Not Want.

Noble Savant
2010-02-04, 10:32 AM
also, i do not in fact have many attack powers (thats for the thrall) but i do try to use my spear to aid our warrior.

You're a thrallherd, you have hordes of lackeys to aid your warrior. Your job is to hand around the back and destroy people's minds. Or at least use a crossbow and stay out of the way.

alisbin
2010-02-04, 10:34 AM
you get bonus PP from 2 stats if you have classes that link to both? INTERESTING.... maybe i should go for a few of wilder then too my cha isn't too bad... is it based on total level or class level? ooooh is there a ultimate magus type prestige class for psion and wilder?
heh now you guys have me thinking evil powergaming thoughts :)

kamikasei
2010-02-04, 10:38 AM
you get bonus PP from 2 stats if you have classes that link to both? INTERESTING.... maybe i should go for a few of wilder then too my cha isn't too bad... is it based on total level or class level?

The bonus points from a high stat are tied to manifester level. You have separate manifester levels for your separate classes. Each stat bonus only applies to the classes for which it's used. All the points go in to the same pool at the end though.

Optimystik
2010-02-04, 10:42 AM
you get bonus PP from 2 stats if you have classes that link to both? INTERESTING.... maybe i should go for a few of wilder then too my cha isn't too bad...

Yes you do, just as you would get bonus spell slots for multiple casting classes, if you had a high casting attribute for each of them.


is it based on total level or class level?

It is based on class level - so no wilder dips at ECL 19 to gain 22 PP + Cha :smalltongue:

Asheram
2010-02-04, 12:02 PM
hey mates,
i'm playing a psion (telepath/thrallherd) and i've been considering a 2 level dip into fighter for a few extra HP and medium/heavy armor. is there a good prestige class that i should consider instead?
or am i reading the rules wrong and is this a REALLY bad idea :)

Remember, Arcane spell faliure is just an aproximate of how much of "dexterity" (not mechanical dexterity) you lose when trying to cast a spell that depends on somatic components, with is very fine and precise movement.

It's only arcane casters that have those, and only on spells with somatic components. Also, if you pick up the "still spell" feat and prepare all your spells through that, you can use armor as much as you'd like... don't ask me why anyone'd want to do that, though.

faceroll
2010-02-04, 05:23 PM
hey mates,
i'm playing a psion (telepath/thrallherd) and i've been considering a 2 level dip into fighter for a few extra HP and medium/heavy armor. is there a good prestige class that i should consider instead?
or am i reading the rules wrong and is this a REALLY bad idea :)

If you take two levels of fighter, you are going to lose a lot of power points in the long run. The difference between psion 10/fighter1 and psion 11, all other things equal, is one power known and 28 power points. If you had that power known as Inertial Armor, and spend 11 power points on manifesting it, it gives you +9 armor- more than full plate. And it will stack with the cleric casting Magic Vestment on your robe. If you want more HP, manifest vigor. For every power point you spend on it, you get 5 HP. 2 levels of fighter nets you about 11 HP. Two levels of manifesting (as opposed to fighter) at level 11 gets you enough power points to manifest vigor twice (which is 55 hitpoints, and after you lose those, you can manifest again for another 55 HP), and +9 armor from inertial armor.

If you really want a lot of AC & HP, use share pain & manifest it on your psicrystal along with vigor. Now you effectively get 10 hp per pp you manifest on vigor. You can also manifest Force Screen, which, for 1 pp, gets you the AC of a tower shield, and this only scales with level. If you stick with straight psion, you also get earlier access to higher level powers, such as concealing amorpha, which makes 20% of attacks simply miss you.

alisbin
2010-02-04, 05:46 PM
technically yes, and i'd thought about it. however my DM is not a big fan of psionics so in order to play this character (i've wanted to make a thrallherd for awhile) i had to agree to only take powers from telepathy and clairsentience so i would be less able to break his game. my thrall will get psychokinesis and psychoportation so she can do some of that stuff, but i really don't want to push my DM to a point where he comes down on me.

Overshee
2010-02-04, 05:56 PM
technically yes, and i'd thought about it. however my DM is not a big fan of psionics so in order to play this character (i've wanted to make a thrallherd for awhile) i had to agree to only take powers from telepathy and clairsentience so i would be less able to break his game. my thrall will get psychokinesis and psychoportation so she can do some of that stuff, but i really don't want to push my DM to a point where he comes down on me.

O.o is he not allowing wizards either?

Lycanthromancer
2010-02-04, 06:43 PM
O.o is he not allowing wizards either?Or druids? Or clerics? Or artificers? Or sorcerers?

magic9mushroom
2010-02-04, 07:16 PM
If you want HP that badly, take Toughness. If you want armour that badly, wear it.

Also, magic >> psionics.

Starbuck_II
2010-02-04, 07:23 PM
If you want HP that badly, take Toughness. If you want armour that badly, wear it.

Also, magic >> psionics.

Don't you mean improved toughness? Toughness sucks in most cases.

Stephen_E
2010-02-04, 07:28 PM
Originally Posted by Tavar
Unless you use powers that require attack rolls, you can always just wear the armor anyways; the only penalty for non proficiency is that you take the Armor check penalty to Attack rolls.





Bad idea. The penalty applies to all Strength and Dexterity based ability checks - that includes Initiative. Do Not Want.

Even worse, if your DM reacts to this peice or trickery appropriately he'll start making you make checks for all the stuff that you would normally take 10's.
You are walking along the slippery dock, make a DC10 Dex ability check.
The rest of the party takes a 10, but with that -6 penalty you are going to have to roll. If you fail you fall in the water. Is that swiming in Full Plate you are trying to do. :-)

Then there is the question of whether the penalty for been non-preficient stacks with the normal penalty for skills like Balance. The rules are unclear. Personally I would rule that they do. So that Balance check would be -6 armour check penalty as normal, +6 armour check penalty for been non-proficient, for -12, or -18 when swimming.

Very quickly the choice becomes don't adventure in armour you are proficient in, or go back to character gen. :smallwink:

Stephen E

faceroll
2010-02-04, 07:37 PM
Even worse, if your DM reacts to this peice or trickery appropriately he'll start making you make checks for all the stuff that you would normally take 10's.
You are walking along the slippery dock, make a DC10 Dex ability check.
The rest of the party takes a 10, but with that -6 penalty you are going to have to roll. If you fail you fall in the water. Is that swiming in Full Plate you are trying to do. :-)

Great fighter nerf.

Lycanthromancer
2010-02-04, 07:47 PM
Even worse, if your DM reacts to this peice or trickery appropriately he'll start making you make checks for all the stuff that you would normally take 10's.
You are walking along the slippery dock, make a DC10 Dex ability check.
The rest of the party takes a 10, but with that -6 penalty you are going to have to roll. If you fail you fall in the water. Is that swiming in Full Plate you are trying to do. :-)

Then there is the question of whether the penalty for been non-preficient stacks with the normal penalty for skills like Balance. The rules are unclear. Personally I would rule that they do. So that Balance check would be -6 armour check penalty as normal, +6 armour check penalty for been non-proficient, for -12, or -18 when swimming.

Very quickly the choice becomes don't adventure in armour you are proficient in, or go back to character gen. :smallwink:

Stephen EMithral chain shirt. No ACP, no problem.

Also, inertial armor is better for AC anyway, given that it works against incorporeal touch attacks. Get some mithral chain shirt regardless, if only for things like getting dispelled, and the heavy fortification and blur armor enhancements.

Sinfire Titan
2010-02-04, 08:14 PM
Don't you mean improved toughness? Toughness sucks in most cases.

I think you mean Vigor...

faceroll
2010-02-04, 08:42 PM
The OP forgot to mention in the OP that he doesn't get any of those powers, apparently.

Zaq
2010-02-04, 08:49 PM
I think you mean Vigor...

The whole point, as I read it, is that Psions are powerful enough that it's better to light feats on fire and take worthless crap like Toughness than it is to diminish your Psionity. You'll still be better off.

Lycanthromancer
2010-02-04, 08:52 PM
The whole point, as I read it, is that Psions are powerful enough that it's better to light feats on fire and take worthless crap like Toughness than it is to diminish your Psionity. You'll still be better off.On the other hand, psions tend toward extremely feat-starved.

Even so, you're often better off wasting a feat than manifester levels (except for a scant few psionic PrCs, as mentioned previously).

Zaq
2010-02-04, 09:07 PM
On the other hand, psions tend toward extremely feat-starved.

Even so, you're often better off wasting a feat than manifester levels (except for a scant few psionic PrCs, as mentioned previously).

They're still good enough that they can take Toughness for every feat and still be a valued and contributing party member. The same goes for any full caster. This is the point. Sure, you'd be BETTER if you took real feats, but you've got so much power at your disposal that you don't even need 'em.

Lycanthromancer
2010-02-04, 09:08 PM
They're still good enough that they can take Toughness for every feat and still be a valued and contributing party member. The same goes for any full caster. This is the point. Sure, you'd be BETTER if you took real feats, but you've got so much power at your disposal that you don't even need 'em.True. They're certainly better off than the fighter. :smallbiggrin:

Draxar
2010-02-04, 09:25 PM
Try Slayer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/slayer.htm) instead.

Heh. That's an amusing class when they've removed the "Ithillid" bit from the front of it due to product identity. "Here's a class that revolves around hating and killing any one particular type of psionic creature, and also just happens to make stuff not want to eat your brain and lets you reflect mind blasts...

Optimystik
2010-02-04, 10:00 PM
Heh. That's an amusing class when they've removed the "Ithillid" bit from the front of it due to product identity. "Here's a class that revolves around hating and killing any one particular type of psionic creature, and also just happens to make stuff not want to eat your brain and lets you reflect mind blasts...

Hey, at least they left it in (unlike Red Wizard), however sanitized. There are few enough good PrCs for psions as it is, without Wizards getting twitchy about copyright.

Stephen_E
2010-02-05, 05:40 AM
Great fighter nerf.

Fighters don't take a amour check on any movement check. :-)

Stephen E