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ChaosDefender24
2010-02-04, 11:54 AM
Half-golem is a template in the back of the.... strangely planned out Monster Manual II. It can be applied to humanoids and such, but also animals and magical beasts. It also lowers the templated creature's INT by 6.

Most templates that drastically reduce one's intelligence say "(minimum 2)" or something like that. However, there is no such phrase in the half-golem template!

So what happens when you give the half-golem template to a bear (applicable to the game I'm DMing), or even an orc barbarian who dumped INT? Would you guys put the Int down to 1, or make it a non-stat? I'm pretty sure Int 0 is absolutely not what the designers intended, as they wouldn't want you to be able to add the template to animals and such if it would just make them comatose forever.

Optimystik
2010-02-04, 12:15 PM
The sample half golems were all created from Half-Orc fighters and all have Int 1. I don't think this is a coincidence. RAI the minimum is 1.

If you want a "by-the-RAW" answer, then I'd say that it can be reduced all the way to zero (ability scores can't be negative) and your bear would be comatose if it makes its will save. Interestingly, failing its will save in that case would make it a golem, and therefore it would lose it's int score just like golems do.

Muz
2010-02-04, 01:28 PM
Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait.
Wait.
Wait.
Wait wait.
Wait.
Are you saying that golems can MATE with other things now? :smalleek:

Person_Man
2010-02-04, 01:30 PM
Note that MMII is 3.0 material, which makes it more screwy then other templates.

BRC
2010-02-04, 01:32 PM
Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait.
Wait.
Wait.
Wait wait.
Wait.
Are you saying that golems can MATE with other things now? :smalleek:

It's more of a "Graft" situation.

Optimystik
2010-02-04, 01:36 PM
Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait.
Wait.
Wait.
Wait wait.
Wait.
Are you saying that golems can MATE with other things now? :smalleek:

You graft on body parts over time, with an increasingly difficult will save each time. If you fail a will save you become the Terminator and want to kill everyone.

(This, of course, is back when they thought living constructs would be overpowered.)

Lappy9000
2010-02-04, 01:38 PM
(This, of course, is back when they thought living constructs would be overpowered.)Granted, half-golems are actual constructs and get a lot of crazy bonuses and abilities.

Probably not worth the whole "mindless" thing for characters, though. Works great for nemesis's :smallbiggrin:

Muz
2010-02-04, 01:41 PM
You graft on body parts over time, with an increasingly difficult will save each time. If you fail a will save you become the Terminator and want to kill everyone.

(This, of course, is back when they thought living constructs would be overpowered.)

Ohhhhhhhhhh. Well that's...slightly less disturbing.

ChaosDefender24
2010-02-04, 01:44 PM
I don't think you actually lose your intelligence if you fail your save, just your CON. even the aforementioned barbarians with int 1 were explicitly said to have failed their saves.

in the 3.5 update there is a LA adjustment of -, so yeah

AirGuitarGod32
2010-02-04, 01:47 PM
I actually think it is not meant to be used on PCs, much like Incarnate Construct, which literally is good for one monster (Maug)

I personally see prolonged use for, oh say Half-Stone Golem Gravetouched Psion-Killer in my PCs' near future..........

Optimystik
2010-02-04, 01:55 PM
Granted, half-golems are actual constructs and get a lot of crazy bonuses and abilities.

Eh. I'm not sure losing your Con score, the ability to be healed, the ability to be raised, the massive penalties to Int and Cha and facing instant destruction at 0 HP is a fair trade for what you get when you could just be a warforged.

The magic immunity is a double-edged sword (no buffs) and you can still be whacked upside the head with orbs anyway.

AirGuitarGod32
2010-02-04, 01:59 PM
Eh. I'm not sure losing your Con score, the ability to be healed, the ability to be raised, the massive penalties to Int and Cha and facing instant destruction at 0 HP is a fair trade for what you get when you could just be a warforged.

The magic immunity is a double-edged sword (no buffs) and you can still be whacked upside the head with orbs anyway.

Excellent point. However, I'd like to point out, much like the Half-Dragon, it depends on what golem you choose. If you focus on, say the Iron Golem, yes, you're asking for a 30 degree attitude adjustment. However, if you choose Flesh Golem, with its spell resistance into neigh infinity, then you may be in buisness.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.......A Half-Psion Killer Flesh Golem is almost broken!

pffh
2010-02-04, 02:56 PM
Ohhhhhhhhhh. Well that's...slightly less disturbing.

Well, there's always the pleasure golem for the other thing :smallwink:

Optimystik
2010-02-04, 03:02 PM
Excellent point. However, I'd like to point out, much like the Half-Dragon, it depends on what golem you choose. If you focus on, say the Iron Golem, yes, you're asking for a 30 degree attitude adjustment. However, if you choose Flesh Golem, with its spell resistance into neigh infinity, then you may be in buisness.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.......A Half-Psion Killer Flesh Golem is almost broken!

Arbitrarily high SR and (even total Spell Immunity) is not the huge bonus you think it is. Anything that ignores SR also ignores immunity to magic.

And I enormously pity the Psion Killer that goes after my Erudite.