Texture issues

[Kajorma]

Reading the article about giving your world texture, I came across this quote:

"You enter the wizard's study. A musty smell fills the air, and swirls of dust follow you as you move. A pair of oak bookcases sit on opposite sides of the room, each filled with leather-bound tomes of assorted shades of brown. On the left bookcase, one shelf has broken, spilling its contents over the shelf below and the floor. A massive desk, at least seven feet in length, fills the center of the room, with dozens of tiny brass-handled drawers. A large book lies open on the desk, near a single red quill pen, eight inches in length, standing in a brass pot of ink."

The idea is that the quill is an important clue, but you describe many things to let the players 'look' around the room. I like the flavor of it, but I think the response will be: "I make a search check"
To which I could only respond: "Roll for it."

How do you as GMs stop all the non-combat challenges from devolving into roll-playing?

[Kajorma]

The one answer I can think of off hand would be giving + modifiers to searching individual things, rather than the whole room, but I still don't think the feeling is right.

Another example is something a friend once talked about. He had players in a gnomish workshop type thing, with gears turning everywhere, giant waterwheels, etc. and the villan standing on a platform on top. No matter how fun the description of the room, the challenge is resolved with a climb check.

[Scarlet Tropix]

Personally, I generally houserule that a search check of the whole room is essentially taking 20.

Sometimes it's not a factor, but it only takes one battle gone horribly wrong to make the PCs learn.

[Rithaniel]

Well, the best thing I could say, for the wizards study example, is, if they don't wanna actually make any effort, stick a red herring up their bung hole. For example, if they roll a search check, and get, lets say, 34 total. You could simply say that they find a secret compartment in the desk, that contains a bag full of gold, or that they find a book with a title that seems awfully suspicious given the current place in the storyline, and have it give a little foreshadowing or whatnot, or have them find a little note on the floor and boom, side quest to gather hippogriff fawns for the local wild animal trainer.

Or, if you just wanna be perfectly clear to the player, when they make a search check, do nothing more than describe the room again. That ought to get them thinking that they should use their grey matter in this instance.

I never let a particular place only have one potential outcome, personally. Makes the game more fun and crazy that way. Room of gears could have 240 secret passage ways, 100 secret rooms of unique design that have special item teasure troves and powering crystal in 'em. Make it so that you can't climb this one wall cause of there being indestructable gears and electrodes that are spinning too fast on it, so, you have to find a way to turn them off to get up there. Have there be an elevator at the end of a deep hallway, that, in traditional gnomish fashion, is exceedingly complicated to use, and trying to circumvent it, results in 2d8 electric damage (freaking Gnomes).

[Cyrion]

Ask them "What are you searching, and what are you searching for?" You're obviously not looking for "I search for the secret quill pen!" but instead "I search the desk for things that don't belong, things there are an unusual number of, etc." Then, if they're looking in the right area and roll well they find what you need them to find. Give bonuses for how close they come to describing what they should be looking for.

[CookiesAreGood]

The idea is that the quill is an important clue, but you describe many things to let the players 'look' around the room. I like the flavor of it, but I think the response will be: "I make a search check"
To which I could only respond: "Roll for it."

How do you as GMs stop all the non-combat challenges from devolving into roll-playing?

I'm conflicited.
On one hand:
I would rule they were trying to find objects not in your description, gold, hidden passages, etc. Maybe they search through the desk drawers (probably). But I would expect more interesting statements to clarify what I already told them.

"I search the bookcase for rare books"
"I search the desk's drawers [implicit for new stuff]."
In other situations:
"I search the treasure hall for a hidden door."

The verb "search" is transitive. It takes a direct object (what you are searching) and an indirect object (what you are searching for).


On the other hand:
It's a role-playing game. I'm not a sharp-eyed rogue whose photographic memory recalls that we are looking for the "Quill of Destiny" -- I'm a player. I want to be helped out in that regard. Otherwise, it's the opposite of the player meta-gaming. My character doesn't benefit from my knowledge, why shouldn't he benefit from his own. The search/knowledge/etc. skills represent that.

Obviously, I need to be doing some higher-level thinking (or there's no point in playing), but the thing I hate, especially in CRPGs, is the pick up and examine everything because you never know what the designer's secret emphasis was.

[jiriku]

Previous posts are right on. You must state where you are searching and what you are hoping to find ("everywhere" and "loot" being the most common answers). FYI, taking 20 while searching a 20 foot by 40 foot room requires upwards of an hour by RAW, so bring on those wandering monsters!

I use a system I call the Rule of Intent, borrowed from the Burning Empires game. Before I will allow a player to take an action involving a non-combat dice roll, I require the player to state his intent, the action he's going to take to accomplish his intent, and the skill, class ability, or spell he intends to use to perform the action. If he can't roll until he satisfies the Rule of Intent.

For example:


"I'm going to try to find the macguffin we've been questing for by searching through the desk and bookshelves. I'll use my Search skill."
"I'm going to try to convince the prisoner to tell us where the macguffin is hidden, by offering his freedom if he talks. I'll cast charm person on him, and also use my diplomacy skill."
"I want to try to find a secret entrance into the Baron's castle, some way in that's likely to be unguarded. I'll think back through legends I may have heard about the castle, consult those old maps we found on the last adventure, and check with my contacts in the thieves' guild as well. I'll use my bardic knowledge, Knowledge (architecture and engineering), and Gather Information."