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View Full Version : D&D 3.5 Vs D&D (1st)



Dragero
2010-02-04, 04:09 PM
Ok so my freind just found some of his old D&D books. From what I understand, he's using original books, not AD&D(thought it may be AD&D). He want to play a game with them realy soon.

I'm a 3.5 player. Never seen 1st in action before. can somebody tell me what the main differences are between 3.5 and 1?

Btw, when ever he comes over, he always writes down MP:0 on his sheets(likes fighters/rangers). Did 1st actualy use MP, or has he just been tainted by video games?

valadil
2010-02-04, 04:15 PM
The biggest difference you'll see is that where 3.5 had feats, D&D was open to GM interpretation. You'll have a similar set of stats. AC is flipped, so a lower AC makes you harder to hit. THAC0 will confuse the hell out of you at first. It's not a difficult concept, it's just more convoluted than it needs to be.

Basically instead of saying "I use ability foo (found in Complete Cheese vol 7) to do blah," you'd describe what you want to do and the GM would figure out mechanics for it. Some say that 3.5's way of giving you specific abilities empowers players (since you know exactly what you can do and how it will work you can make better choices). Others say it limits players (since you learn to only think in terms of the abilities you've been given). I'll decline to comment since I wasn't interested in mechanics at the time I played pre 3.0 D&D, but I can definitely see both sides of the argument.

hamishspence
2010-02-04, 04:16 PM
There have been a lot of editions:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Editions_of_Dungeons_%26_Dragons

however, when people say "D&D 1st edition" they tend to mean "AD&D 1st edition" rather than the Basic/Expert/Companion/Master series.

If its that he's speaking of, it plays a little differently from AD&D 1st and 2nd edition, which are much more similar to each other, than either is to Basic.

Starbuck_II
2010-02-04, 04:16 PM
Ok so my freind just found some of his old D&D books. From what I understand, he's using original books, not AD&D(thought it may be AD&D). He want to play a game with them realy soon.

I'm a 3.5 player. Never seen 1st in action before. can somebody tell me what the main differences are between 3.5 and 1?

Btw, when ever he comes over, he always writes down MP:0 on his sheets(likes fighters/rangers). Did 1st actualy use MP, or has he just been tainted by video games?

Well, races have less classes (to put it simply). Alot less spells/day.

Dragero
2010-02-04, 06:30 PM
Hmmm Interesting, So the MP thing was mostly him making up rules? (He does that soo often)

Fhaolan
2010-02-04, 07:47 PM
There were lots of homebrew-equivalent MP systems rolling around for D&D of various editions. A good number of them were from other early D&D-like systems ported over wholesale; Tunnels & Trolls and the like.

It's important to find out which edition he's actually looking at, and to avoid trying to mix editions unless you're really sure about it. AD&D and 2nd edition AD&D are more inter-compatable than any of the other editions until the 2nd edition 'Options' series came out. CD&D (Basic/Expert/etc.) has significant differences from AD&D that can confuse things, and OD&D (Men & Magic/Monsters & Treasure/etc.) might as well be a completely different game.

rayne_dragon
2010-02-04, 08:04 PM
Also:

Don't expect a magic-mart
You're likely to have lower ability scores
Monsters are nastier
XP is scarcer

In fact, generally the earlier editions are much more inherently challenging than the recent versions. Since 3 came out I've always had a nostagic desire to play 1st and 2nd editions.

Fun fact: I also seem to recall my DM pointing out that there is a way to win the game in 1st edition, if you're refering to the basic/master/whatever original edition. It probably won't come up.

ericgrau
2010-02-04, 08:14 PM
Less rules mostly, which can be good or bad depending on how much he likes to improv them. More crazy stuff. Tables and roll under this or above that, instead of the d20+modifier must beat a DC system, or any consistent system for that matter. Otherwise it's not too far off I think.

Dragero
2010-02-05, 07:13 AM
To help identify the edition:


He always says in his game, you try to roll for an even or an odd number. You chose what one has the desirable outcome.

This might be homebrew, but it could be from a edition.....not sure.

(I don`t think he`s ever even read most of his DMG)

Cyrion
2010-02-05, 10:06 AM
Roll for an even or odd number? That doesn't sound like AD&D at all. He's either homebrewed something or perhaps gone back to the original Greyhawk/Blackmoor/Eldritch Wizardry. That's a blind guess- I'm not very familiar with that original system.

One of the most significant differences I've noticed between the older editions and 3.x is the change in multiclassing. Multiclass options are more limited in earlier editions, and you profit from simultaneous multiclassing instead of the sequential multiclassing in 3.x.

Fhaolan
2010-02-05, 11:51 AM
*blink* Nope, that's not even the original D&D that used Chainmail as the combat system. It does sound vaguely familiar though, just not as D&D.

Wasn't there a Hollow Earth RPG that did the even/odd thing?

Volkov
2010-02-05, 12:12 PM
In 1e, picking anything other than a human as your race screws you over royally due to the idiotic class/race restrictions. For example, a dwarf can only get 10 levels in fighter, but can get up to 18 levels in thief. Which makes very little sense given the fact that a dwarf's talents are far better suited to being a fighter as opposed to a thief.

Matthew
2010-02-05, 12:14 PM
Sounds like he is using OD&D as a very nominal baseline and then adding a whole lot of house rules to the system. That is very much in keeping with approaches to that game, but basically here is what OD&D includes:

Attributes: Normal Six, 3-18 Spread, very few modifiers linked to them.
Races: Human, Dwarf, Elf, Halfling
Classes: Fighter, Magician, Cleric (all dwarves are fighters, all halflings are fighters, and all elves are fighter/magicians. All hit dice are 1d6.
Equipment: The very basics etcetera]
Combat: Compare AC to FA and roll equal or higher to hit, all damage is 1d6.
Non Combat Mechanics: None described.
Magical Spells: Magicians (and possibly Clerics, it is not clear) have spell books that contain their spells known. They memorise them from these as normal, spell levels go from 1-6 for magicians, 1-5 for clerics.
Magical Items: The usual suspects
Bestiary: As above
Followers: Henchman are classed and levelled, hirelings are level 0 unclassed types.
Strongholds: Some rudimentary rules for upkeep and so on.

That is pretty much it. There were five or six supplements that made the rules more and more like AD&D, included a mass combat system, and some more eclectic stuff. A good place to go to read up on the subject is: Philotomy's OD&D Musings (http://www.philotomy.com/).



In 1e, picking anything other than a human as your race screws you over royally due to the idiotic class/race restrictions. For example, a dwarf can only get 10 levels in fighter, but can get up to 18 levels in thief. Which makes very little sense given the fact that a dwarf's talents are far better suited to being a fighter as opposed to a thief.

Obviously not, if he can go up 18 levels in thief... however, all demi-humans actually have unlimited advancement in the thief class, which is why they are usually multi-classed as fighter/thief, or magician/thief, or fighter/magician/thief.

ericgrau
2010-02-05, 12:17 PM
Well that's how you know it's early D&D, IIRC. He makes random rules himself at will to fill the large undefined space. I hear it's great for that reason if you don't want to deal with a bunch of rules. Gygax himself worried about rules lawyering in 3e as it came out.

Matthew
2010-02-05, 12:25 PM
Well that's how you know it's early D&D, IIRC. He makes random rules himself at will to fill the large undefined space. I hear it's great for that reason if you don't want to deal with a bunch of rules. Gygax himself worried about rules lawyering in 3e as it came out.

Depends what you mean by "random", "at will", and "undefined space". Most OD&D games are largely designed by the game master to fit his campaign with OD&D as a base, and leave as much or as little room for change as he sees fit. The difference between D20 and pre-D20 D&D is that more of the rules are created for you, making it more of a complete system and less of a tool-box.