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View Full Version : (3.5) Adventure/Treasure Design Question



DracoDei
2010-02-04, 08:55 PM
I have long had in mind the adventure that I though would be the last one I would run before the characters achieved Epic level, if any campaign of mine ever happens to be in such a place. This isn't likely to happen any time soon, but I have a question that I want to get resolved long before I get to that place.

Quite simply, the problem is that, in all likelihood, only ONE of the characters is going to get any treasure out of the mission directly, and the rest are just going to get hand-me-downs from that one character and I am wondering if that works. I am wondering if this would work out OK?

Let me explain further... the adventure involves racing the villain to collect the parts of a magical artifact then confronting him, with the ease of that climatic combat determined by how many of the parts the PCs manage to get before the villain does. Rather than actually interlocking like the Rod of Seven Parts or whatever, each part of the artifact takes up one magic item slot (well, some of them are slotless, but which ever). The suite of items fills every magic item slot, but does NOT include a weapon (at least not per se). The reason it is not likely to be divided among the party is that the items get synergy bonii off eachother, and so splitting them up is a bad idea. Thus one person is likely to end up with most of them. For reasons I won't go into for fear of spoiling thing if someone who reads this ends up playing in that adventure, this is NOT likely to overpower the party as a whole. The item suite is best suited for a monk and thus (if there isn't a monk in the party) most likely to end up being given to the party rogue, sword-sage, fighter, barbarian, and probably NOT to an arcanist. Anyway, that character's old items would likely be distributed among the rest of the party, and/or sold, and the money distributed among the rest of the party.

So... what sort of variables, if any will determine how well this will work?

Cyrion
2010-02-05, 10:17 AM
For it to work as you've described, you'd have to have a party that happily plays second fiddle to the character you've chosen to be the de facto focus of the party. In my opinion, not likely.

Also, the hand-me-downs aren't likely to be terribly useful to many of the other party members. The items that a monk has collected and found useful over a long adventuring career are going to be specialized to a certain degree and not be useful to the melee characters or arcanists. Everyone else ends up getting shafted.

A far better option, in my opinion, would be to make sure that along with your Regalia of Sundry Parts there is other treasure included tailored to the rest of the party. That will keep things more balanced personally and mechanically and also contribute to a little work on the party's party. Which set of gloves in the dragon's treasure belongs to the set?

DracoDei
2010-02-05, 12:24 PM
NONE OF MY PLAYERS READ ANY FURTHER... JUST TO BE ON THE SAFE SIDE.


We appear to have a miscommunication, but some of what you said might apply. It is hard to tell.

For it to work as you've described, you'd have to have a party that happily plays second fiddle to the character you've chosen to be the de facto focus of the party. In my opinion, not likely.
I haven't chosen anyone. The party collects some of the parts. The party (theoretically) defeats the BBEG... the party now has the full thing (well... there is going to be some battle damage to power it down a bit, but it will still be quite nice)... the party divies up the loot, which, in this case, I would THINK means giving all the peices of the artifact to one person (whom the party picks). That person then gives the rest of the party a bunch of stuff to make up for it. Another alternative is that the artifact gets swapped around as needed, so while (as you mention later) there MIGHT be a "star of the show" they can all take turns in the spot-light.

Also, the hand-me-downs aren't likely to be terribly useful to many of the other party members. The items that a monk has collected and found useful over a long adventuring career are going to be specialized to a certain degree and not be useful to the melee characters or arcanists. Everyone else ends up getting shafted.
What is this about a monk collecting them over a long adventuring career? The "Regalia of Sundry Parts" is designed for a monk. That is all I was trying to say. The race between the BBEG and the party to collect the parts takes place over a rather short period of time. I am not sure exactly HOW short though.

A far better option, in my opinion, would be to make sure that along with your Regalia of Sundry Parts there is other treasure included tailored to the rest of the party. That will keep things more balanced personally and mechanically and also contribute to a little work on the party's party. Which set of gloves in the dragon's treasure belongs to the set?
Identify should handle that quite nicely. At worst, the ones that give no answer are the ones that are part of the set. Come to that just the strengths of the auras on Detect Magic should provide a clue. I COULD do this, but it just doesn't seem to make much sense to me with the way the adventures are designed... the only treasure other than the parts of the Regalia are the going to be magic items on the gaurdians of one or other of the parts, and since I don't usually run EVIL groups, they won't be killing any of those (at least not perminantly... at 20th level the occasional spar match to the death just mean you are serious about your training... right?). I guess they could get some gold rewards from people who are grateful for the party stopping the guy...

Cyrion
2010-02-05, 02:14 PM
Aww, nuts! My browser did something screwy and didn't post my reply. Here goes take two:

By tailoring the Regailia for a monk you are choosing the central character because the pieces are likely to target the special abilities of a monk, abilities that few other character classes will share. For example, something that improves Flurry of Blows isn't going to be at all useful to the wizard.

My point about the long adventuring career wasn't aimed at the Regalia. You said the Regalia would be displacing items from various slots. At high level, the monk will have a number of those slots occupied by things that synergize with his special abilities. These items, when displaced, aren't going to be very useful to the other party members.

Of course, all of this is moot if you're creative enough to tailor the items to a monk without excluding everyone else.

As far as foiling Identify- The Regalia is an artifact. It lies. One of its powers is that any magic item within 10 feet has its aura increased in power to match that of the Regalia. In addition, have a table of random (false) powers. Every item within 10 feet, including the Regalia will lie to Identify giving one (or more, if you're particularly evil) of these false powers. Or something along these lines. Give your party something that they can figure out and creatively overcome without handing it to them for the cost of a first level spell.

jiriku
2010-02-05, 02:18 PM
This would probably make me uncomfortable if I was a player. I'm either feeling a little guilty because I'm getting all the good stuff and giving my trash to the other players, or I'm a bit ticked off because I notice that for the last few levels, we haven't found any treasure suitable for my character or any cash I can use to buy the gear I've been wanting.

Instead, just include the artifacts as part of the treasure found, or (better still) as a bonus on top of normal treasure. Artifacts are plot devices, after all, not loot.

DracoDei
2010-02-05, 02:32 PM
The entire adventure takes place at level 20. Thus no "Lack of treasure for several levels". It might run the ENTIRETY of level 20, but no longer than that.

Also, who said that there is going to be a Monk among the PCs? ALL I said was that the Regalia is designed for a monk.

Also, yes, I was clever enough that I don't THINK there are any powers that directly affect Monks per se, and if there are, they would be on the order of "Gain SR X, or existing SR increases by +Y".

Cyrion
2010-02-05, 04:27 PM
Why would you design an artifact best suited to a monk and that you expect your party to be able to use as a launch into epic levels without having a monk in the party? I think you'd do much better to tailor the artifact (and plot) to your specific party.

DracoDei
2010-02-05, 04:44 PM
:smallsigh:
Ok, nobody who even MIGHT play this adventure read any further.
Let me TRY to explain this:
I do not believe in tailoring adventures to the PCs beyond such things as probably not setting too many of them underwater if none of the PCs can breath water naturally. Other people might, but I don't think it is my GMing style.

Well, I guess it is a GOOD thing that nobody can read between the lines well enough to figure out that the BBEG in question is a monk, and that since he is supposed to be a fair fight for the entire party when using the item, that I WANT it to be less useful to whoever ends up with it than it was for him... The item in question is built around a belt that covers the whole body in a Prismatic effect. The rest of the items close holes in that (For instance by covering the eyeholes with Wall of Force effects) or allow various other effects (flight, immunity to bright light, not needing to sleep, ability score bonuses, etc). Since every time the wearer hits someone, that person has to make 7 saving throws (well, not that many if they have a brain in their head and are immune to several of the effects), this works especially well for a monk. Hmmm... probably need to allow at least two of the items to enable Pounce, a set number of times per day for each item, more (unlimited?) if both are worn. I am simplifying a bunch, but the basic idea is that the BBEG is a 20th level monk, and this item, if he has all the parts should allow him to TPK unless the party displays a level of forethought and creativity that should have kept him from from getting the full set ANYWAY...
The belt is going to self-destruct as soon as the monk goes down, unless the PCs are VERY VERY clever. The rest of the set will remain. A replacement belt could be crafted that would require Prismatic Sphere be cast into it to power it up for a number of rounds equal to the number of rounds the spell would normally last... but only if the players think to ask.

jiriku
2010-02-05, 05:16 PM
OK, given that that game occurs entirely within level 20, I think you've got a more viable concept. A useful tack to take might be to provide several NPCs who would be willing to trade money/gear/favors/whatever for pieces of the gear if the PCs don't want it. Normally that's a given for treasure, but artifacts don't usually have pricetags.

DracoDei
2010-02-05, 06:57 PM
The adventure occurs within level 20... the campaign will almost certainly not.