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Vulkan
2010-02-04, 10:11 PM
Alright this isn't an actual game at all.. I just want to know if people think I'm good at weaving any type of story.


Campaign 1: Kobold


"Many generations ago your great ancestors lived in peace and ignorance. Never did the idea of an apocalyptic day come to mind until one day from the darkness came four demonic beings claded in steel. Each one was different from the last and each one had the capabilities to destroy many of our people as quickly as a few moments. Many of our kin gave their lives to give our people enough time to escape the horrid slaughter. Our people wondered for days in search for a new place to call home. One day they found a small island with a large plateau off the cost that had a path to it during the low tides. Once settled there for a few years, our people discovered some thing great. Underneath the surface was an ancient system of tunnels which lead to inside of the plateau of the island to a large empty area withing the great plateau. This gave more security to our clan and would eventually be found out to have many precious minerals and ore even deeper into the earth (which later on we would trade with cities far away.) It is many generations later and you and your teams are assigned the sacred duty of protecting the entrance to our utopia and our people."


:smallconfused: Yea so if it's THAT bad I`ll just leave the site and come back one day under a different name and pretend I'm into Exalted or some thing..

Touchy
2010-02-04, 10:16 PM
Alright this isn't an actual game at all.. I just want to know if people think I'm good at weaving any type of story.


Campaign 1: Kobold


"Many generations ago your great ancestors lived in peace and ignorance. Never did the idea of an apocalyptic day come to mind until one day from the darkness came four demonic beings claded in steel. Each one was different from the last and each one had the capabilities to destroy many of our people as quickly as a few moments. Many of our kin gave their lives to give our people enough time to escape the horrid slaughter. Our people wondered for days in search for a new place to call home. One day they found a small island with a large plateau off the cost that had a path to it during the low tides. Once settled there for a few years, our people discovered some thing great. Underneath the surface was an ancient system of tunnels which lead to inside of the plateau of the island to a large empty area withing the great plateau. This gave more security to our clan and would eventually be found out to have many precious minerals and ore even deeper into the earth (which later on we would trade with cities far away.) It is many generations later and you and your teams are assigned the sacred duty of protecting the entrance to our utopia and our people."


:smallconfused: Yea so if it's THAT bad I`ll just leave the site and come back one day under a different name and pretend I'm into Exalted or some thing..

You probably will not have to leave, this is not a very hostile community, it's not the worst story. Depending on the group you might not even have to form a story.

KillianHawkeye
2010-02-04, 10:28 PM
An intricate campaign backstory has nothing to do with your skills at DMing.

Temotei
2010-02-04, 10:29 PM
You said "our people" too much. :smalltongue:

It was fine. Deadly beings come up, kobolds who aren't dragonwrought sorcerers are scared...etc. :smallcool:

Vulkan
2010-02-04, 10:31 PM
You probably will not have to leave, this is not a very hostile community, it's not the worst story. Depending on the group you might not even have to form a story.

Oh.. Well that makes me feel better.


An intricate campaign backstory has nothing to do with your skills at DMing.

Ah- Actually you have a good point.. I can't exactly think of how to show any DMing skill that I have or would have without actually running a game...


You said "our people" too much. :smalltongue:

It was fine. Deadly beings come up, kobolds who aren't dragonwrought sorcerers are scared...etc. :smallcool:

I probably should replace "People" with "Clan." My favorite part was trying to make some random adventures look like an Apocalypse

Tiktakkat
2010-02-04, 11:48 PM
The story is not bad, but the grammar and spelling are in need of significant editing. (Which is not an utterly horrific thing in and of itself; truly awesome work typically needs three rounds of editing to be suitable for fansites and the like.)

drengnikrafe
2010-02-04, 11:53 PM
Quick question... are your PCs going to actually... care? I mean, it sounds mean, but if you've ever read The DM of the Rings, a lot of times the players just want to stab a bunch of things. It's good to have some loose plot, but...

I guess what it really comes down to is a few things.
Are your PCs excessively rebellious? They may not enjoy being told what to do.
Are your PCs going to invest themselves in the backstory? Yes, it's good for building characters, but that is just one style of play. So... is it your style of play?
Where are you going from there? That's a good backstory, but do you have plans for what happens next?

Lore is really nice in a world, especially if it comes up. Believe you me, though, without a guiding hand, lore you prepared rarely comes up.

As for the lore itself... it's cool. I like it. Good work.

Temotei
2010-02-04, 11:54 PM
The story is not bad, but the grammar and spelling are in need of significant editing. (Which is not an utterly horrific thing in and of itself; truly awesome work typically needs three rounds of editing to be suitable for fansites and the like.)

Agreed on most parts, except the fan site thing. Some of those...you can just say their favorite subject of talk, and they'll squee and be happy...then wait for more.

Twilight.

Vulkan
2010-02-05, 12:04 AM
The story is not bad, but the grammar and spelling are in need of significant editing. (Which is not an utterly horrific thing in and of itself; truly awesome work typically needs three rounds of editing to be suitable for fansites and the like.)

:smalleek: ... :smallfrown: aaaw man


Quick question... are your PCs going to actually... care? I mean, it sounds mean, but if you've ever read The DM of the Rings, a lot of times the players just want to stab a bunch of things. It's good to have some loose plot, but...

I guess what it really comes down to is a few things.
Are your PCs excessively rebellious? They may not enjoy being told what to do.
Are your PCs going to invest themselves in the backstory? Yes, it's good for building characters, but that is just one style of play. So... is it your style of play?
Where are you going from there? That's a good backstory, but do you have plans for what happens next?

Lore is really nice in a world, especially if it comes up. Believe you me, though, without a guiding hand, lore you prepared rarely comes up.

As for the lore itself... it's cool. I like it. Good work.

Well one of them absolutely loves kobolds and the other one is the normal DM and probably would like to annoy me going "I want to search for traps" which would be ironic since I'm not the one who does it to him..
How ever I'm glad you like the lore I came up with.

Tiktakkat
2010-02-05, 12:47 AM
Agreed on most parts, except the fan site thing. Some of those...you can just say their favorite subject of talk, and they'll squee and be happy...then wait for more.

Twilight.

Well, see:
"typically needs"
That most such generally gets no rounds of editing . . . QED.


:smalleek: ... :smallfrown: aaaw man

Everything needs to be edited.
Every author needs to be edited.
Anything I write I review multiple times, and do what I can to pass it by someone else for checking. I hate when I have to go to posting without having someone look over my work as I know it means there will be even more errors in it.

Otherwise you get what Temotei221 noted. :smallyuk:

As a side note, it is also okay to hate your editor, and even say mean things about him in public. But always have one, and always make sure to keep him happy. (Especially if it is yourself when working on a purely personal/fansite basis. :smallcool: )

Satyr
2010-02-05, 03:55 AM
An intricate campaign backstory has nothing to do with your skills at DMing.

It's probably not the most important trait of a good gamemaster, but it is far from unimportant. A boring, predictable or just stereotypic backstory is poison for most campaigns, and an intriguing campaign setting is a reliable motivation factor for the players. Or to put it into a more provocative phrase: "If your players are not interested in learning more abut your setting, NPC or plot, you are doing something wrong".
But the question is usually how well you can interweave your backstory with the actual occurences in game, but it is hardly damaging to have an interesting plot, while a dull or stupid campaign setting is a major drawback in any case.

Killer Angel
2010-02-05, 04:51 AM
Quick question... are your PCs going to actually... care? I mean, it sounds mean, but if you've ever read The DM of the Rings, a lot of times the players just want to stab a bunch of things. It's good to have some loose plot, but...


An introduction to the world is needed to move in it, and a background for a home setting is the basis, if you want to make the players interested in the campaign.
If player are not interested at least a little in such things, better to play a serie of Dungeon Delve. "you are at the entry of the cave; roll initiative".


An intricate campaign backstory has nothing to do with your skills at DMing.

I hope you're not implying that Vulcan's was intricated... :smalleek:
(BTW, I like it)

Aik
2010-02-05, 05:26 AM
It sounds like a cool pitch for a game. I have a clear idea of who the characters are and what it is they'll actually be doing, which is better than most game pitches.

But yeah - it says nothing about your DMing. The best way of telling that would be to see if your players are enjoying what you're doing.

Math_Mage
2010-02-05, 05:34 AM
With respect to the writing, it's first-draft material, and there's nothing wrong with that.

With respect to the story, I'm not sure I'm qualified to comment since I've never DM'd and have only actually played a couple of times, but...the assigned duty of 'guarding the gate' sounds a little passive for a group of adventurers. IMHO, giving them something a little more active and open-ended (e.g. patrolling the area *around* the gate) would be an improvement.

BobTheDog
2010-02-05, 08:32 AM
Well, meta-thinking a little, guarding the gate will probably entail something big and nasty showing up, not being stopped due to sheer big-and-nastiness, killing/destroying/stealing stuff and then leaving so that the PCs have to chase it down to avenge/avenge/recover stuff.

Or something will come from inside (it's Underdarkish tunnels we are talking about) and the PCs will have to deal with that.

What I mean is: guarding duty is fine (as a plot device) to start with, as long as it's shaken up after a while.

KillianHawkeye
2010-02-05, 08:59 AM
I hope you're not implying that Vulcan's was intricated... :smalleek:
(BTW, I like it)

Hmm... perhaps intricate was the wrong word. I only meant that it was very detailed and covered a timespan of several generations.

Anyway, my point was that having a detailed campaign background is one thing (and not unimportant at all), but it doesn't give any evidence about one's ability to convey that story meaningfully, manage the players, or control the overall flow of the game at the table.

Hiisi
2010-02-05, 09:33 AM
I'd play in your game. I have a soft spot for low level monsters and playing the game from an alternative perspective sounds exciting. As a tip, check out this webcomic if you're not already familiar with: http://goblins.keenspot.com/. It's about a goblin adventuring party.

As others have pointed out, it's hard to judge how good a DM you are just by the backstory. I think it's a good sign that you want feedback and criticism, means you're willing to see what might be wrong with your style and want to improve.

Vulkan
2010-02-05, 09:57 AM
Well, see:
"typically needs"
That most such generally gets no rounds of editing . . . QED.



Everything needs to be edited.
Every author needs to be edited.
Anything I write I review multiple times, and do what I can to pass it by someone else for checking. I hate when I have to go to posting without having someone look over my work as I know it means there will be even more errors in it.

Otherwise you get what Temotei221 noted. :smallyuk:

As a side note, it is also okay to hate your editor, and even say mean things about him in public. But always have one, and always make sure to keep him happy. (Especially if it is yourself when working on a purely personal/fansite basis. :smallcool: )

Gotcha.. I`ll find an editor.. Eventually.






I hope you're not implying that Vulcan's was intricated... :smalleek:
(BTW, I like it)

Thank you Ive been fascinated with the concept of campaigns from the perspective of the npc monsters since my friends and I killed like 50 kobolds..


It sounds like a cool pitch for a game. I have a clear idea of who the characters are and what it is they'll actually be doing, which is better than most game pitches.

But yeah - it says nothing about your DMing. The best way of telling that would be to see if your players are enjoying what you're doing.

Looks like it's time to fire up the OpenRpg then, eh?
Thank you very much.. Actually now that I think about it if I make a few tweaks I can actually set this up to work on the forums here.


With respect to the writing, it's first-draft material, and there's nothing wrong with that.

With respect to the story, I'm not sure I'm qualified to comment since I've never DM'd and have only actually played a couple of times, but...the assigned duty of 'guarding the gate' sounds a little passive for a group of adventurers. IMHO, giving them something a little more active and open-ended (e.g. patrolling the area *around* the gate) would be an improvement.

Actually that was the original plan was to have them going around setting up traps hiding and pro-trolling to see if any one would wonder in and then eventually have them do more important things such as venture into ruins that were found and eventually go on a trade run and eventually doing "THE PILGRIMAGE." Which I have a little plot twist for that.



Well, meta-thinking a little, guarding the gate will probably entail something big and nasty showing up, not being stopped due to sheer big-and-nastiness, killing/destroying/stealing stuff and then leaving so that the PCs have to chase it down to avenge/avenge/recover stuff.

Or something will come from inside (it's Underdarkish tunnels we are talking about) and the PCs will have to deal with that.

What I mean is: guarding duty is fine (as a plot device) to start with, as long as it's shaken up after a while.

I think my main problem is I need my PC's characters ahead of time in order to come up with things such as meeting and why it is their there and not digging and such.


I'd play in your game. I have a soft spot for low level monsters and playing the game from an alternative perspective sounds exciting. As a tip, check out this webcomic if you're not already familiar with: http://goblins.keenspot.com/. It's about a goblin adventuring party.

As others have pointed out, it's hard to judge how good a DM you are just by the backstory. I think it's a good sign that you want feedback and criticism, means you're willing to see what might be wrong with your style and want to improve.

Yeah I find the current DM in my group... To be listed as the following

Evil
Sadistic
Boring
Unimaginative
Too eager for high level campaigns despite never finishing a low level one
Etc

Thank you very much for the web comic I enjoy these.

Megaduck
2010-02-05, 10:03 AM
Alright this isn't an actual game at all.. I just want to know if people think I'm good at weaving any type of story.

What bothers me is that this is YOUR story and a good DM does not make the story. The players make the story.

A good DM will ask the players what sort of game they want to play and then build the story around that.

*Edit*

Thank you Ive been fascinated with the concept of campaigns from the perspective of the npc monsters since my friends and I killed like 50 kobolds..

I'd rate your DMing much higher if your friends said they were interested in this concept since they killed 50 kobolds and you were making a campaign to satisfy that interest.

KillianHawkeye
2010-02-05, 10:07 AM
What bothers me is that this is YOUR story and a good DM does not make the story. The players make the story.

You are confusing story with backstory. The story is what will happen once the game begins.

Megaduck
2010-02-05, 10:14 AM
You are confusing story with backstory. The story is what will happen once the game begins.

The Back story, Story, all of it, needs to be tailored to the players and what they want to do.

Tyndmyr
2010-02-05, 10:21 AM
It's a decent background bit. A little dry...but thats hard to avoid when setting up all the fluff. Just dont be concerned if players skim it.

Just expand on this, toss plot hooks everywhere, and try to think of 1-2 epic events that might intermesh with the adventure.

Satyr
2010-02-05, 11:23 AM
What bothers me is that this is YOUR story and a good DM does not make the story. The players make the story.
Not necessarily. This might be a common approach, but it is certainly not the only one, and if you ask me, it is far from the best appoach, at least for me -my mgaming philosophy is strictly gamemaster-centred and authorative, and I have usually little patience of political correct participation strategies. It is the Gamemaster's game after all. The players are allowed to participate in the game and the story, but they are not the most important participant. The gamemaster is always the primus inter pares in the group and should both feel and act his authority. Any gamemaster who tries to shift the resonsibility for the campaign on his players is just avoiding his responsibilities. Gamemastering is based on the simple axiom, that great resposibilities should come with great powers. It is the gamemaster and his efforts, talent and and thus any move which leads to fewer tools in the hand of the GM to run the game as good as possible is just foolish - at least for me.
The other problem is, that this form of gamemastering strongly suggests that the whole world turns around the players and their characters. This might be nice for their egos, but is usually poison for any campaign.

I know pretty well what I can do, and what things I can't pull of as a GM - and most importantly I know that when I do most of the work to pull the game of, I am not going to put this effort in any idea I have no particular interest in, or worse, is forced on me by the volonté général. As the campaign's quality usually depends greatly on the invested work and tought, the result would be mediocre at best.



A good DM will ask the players what sort of game they want to play and then build the story around that.

Again, this is no automatism. A gamemaster doesn't need to be sycophantic to be good - to the contrary. Most gamemasters I found truly good take their game, based solely on their ideas and makes it well enough that the players like it, completely independent from their tastes and wishes. I usually have the improession that asking the players for their input is often a sign of a lack of confidence of the gamemaster in his campaign or setting. This is not necessarily a sign of communication skills, but of fear.
And if a player is not content with this, he is invited to run a game on his own.

Emmerask
2010-02-05, 11:43 AM
The Back story, Story, all of it, needs to be tailored to the players and what they want to do.

The back story tailored to what the players want? So I should ask if its cool that the BIG SECRET of this campaign world is that the good god xyz is in fact evil and wants to destroy the multiverse? :smallbiggrin:

Sorry but that is plain and simple not true.

Megaduck
2010-02-05, 11:50 AM
:smallyuk: I disagree with you Satyr. Strongly.

In my opinion you just outlined if the most common error in DMing where the DM thinks everything revolves around them. This quickly leads to Railroading (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Railroading) where the PC's are simply bystanders to the DM's grand story and the game quickly turns into something like this. (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=612) Where the DM perfectly convinced what they're doing is great but can't seem to grasp why no one else seems to care.

*Edit*

The back story tailored to what the players want? So I should ask if its cool that the BIG SECRET of this campaign world is that the good god xyz is in fact evil and wants to destroy the multiverse?

If what the PC's want to do is open a bar and stock it with the most exotic spiders found from around the Multiverse (Yes, that is an actual example) then the fact that the big god is secretly evil doesn't mean squat. The players will not care, they will go hunt spiders regardless of the big bads plan and regardless of whatever plot hooks you throw in front of them.

What the DM needs to do there is start making quests that involve hunting down rare and interesting spiders.

If you player makes a diplomat character and convinces the group to do political spying, sabotage and intrigue against the surrounding kingdoms then the backstory better have a lot to do with the current tensions between kingdoms X and Y and their attempts to gain allies.

Emmerask
2010-02-05, 12:09 PM
If what the PC's want to do is open a bar and stock it with the most exotic spiders found from around the Multiverse (Yes, that is an actual example) then the fact that the big god is secretly evil doesn't mean squat. The players will not care, they will go hunt spiders regardless of the big bads plan and regardless of whatever plot hooks you throw in front of them.

What the DM needs to do there is start making quests that involve hunting down rare and interesting spiders.

If you player makes a diplomat character and convinces the group to do political spying, sabotage and intrigue against the surrounding kingdoms then the backstory better have a lot to do with the current tensions between kingdoms X and Y and their attempts to gain allies.

You do confuse back story with story
And it is perfectly fine if they want to hunt spiders or do anything they want ^^

the back story of the campaign setting is nothing that prohibits the players to do whatever they want. It defines your campaign world how came the world into being, what gods are there, population, kingdoms, tribes, races etc etc. it makes any campaign richer and much more interesting.

Tyndmyr
2010-02-05, 12:16 PM
It is the Gamemaster's game after all. The players are allowed to participate in the game and the story, but they are not the most important participant. The gamemaster is always the primus inter pares in the group and should both feel and act his authority.

No. It's everyone's game. They are all participating in it, and it is there for all to enjoy, and for all to change if necessary. All of them will build upon and create the story, and none of them are more important than another.

Satyr
2010-02-05, 06:44 PM
In my opinion you just outlined if the most common error in DMing where the DM thinks everything revolves around them.

Please. That's not an error, that's a plain fact. No gamemaster, no game. It is as simple as that. You can easily kick out most players (but one) and it is still a functional RPG, but it doesn't matter how many players you have, or how engaged they are, without a gamemaster, there is no game.


This quickly leads to Railroading where the PC's are simply bystanders to the DM's grand story [...].

Railroading is problematic for other reasons, mostly the lack of a gamemaster to lure the players into the intended direction without forcing them, and the inability to react to player actions which were not anticipated. But these are two completely unrelated issues.
I don't say that your position is not legit for you, but it is certainly not a universal truth, and I personally couldn't run a game like that very well, nor would I enjoy it as a player. It is one thing to have an own philosophy, it is something completely different to claim that the personal taste is the one true way.


No. It's everyone's game. They are all participating in it, and it is there for all to enjoy, and for all to change if necessary. All of them will build upon and create the story, and none of them are more important than another.

Do you honestly believe that every person contributes equally to a game? I don't. And therefore, it might be everyone's game, but cdertainy not in equal shares. Even ignoring the gamemaster, I have never seen a game where all players contributed equally to the game. And at least for me, those who more to further the game, deserve a bit of respect. There is little more unfair than treating everyone the same ( and yes, I think this is also true for players).
In my opinion, the game as a whole rises and falls with the gamemaster. Sure, every player can contribute (participation is the absolute minimum what can be expected), and every player can ruin a game if he or she truly tries (or just doesn't care), but it is the gamemaster who does most of the heavy lifting and constitures the framework, and it is also the gamemaster's fault when he lets a player ruin the game, or doesn't create the chances of other people to contribute. Therefore I really think that any limitations for the gamemasters are a problem - the better he can fulfill his role, the higher are the chances that the campaign will become something good.

drengnikrafe
2010-02-05, 07:27 PM
Well, since this has turned into a "How much power does/should the DM have?" thing, I think I'll put in my 2 cp.

In my opinion (being a somewhat minimalist DM with a chaotic player base), my primary purpose is to fill in what the PCs ask for, and when they don't ask for anything, to give them options. This is fun for them, because it's like they are existing in a world where they can do whatever they want, and reasonable reactions will follow. When they get bored, I twist it up. When I get bored, I do something weird.

Then again, I never pay for anything, but end up eating a lot anyway.