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SurlySeraph
2010-02-05, 05:35 PM
In case anyone's unfamiliar with it, circle-strafing is a tactic common in first-person shooter games. You run in circles around an enemy while continually firing at them, to make it more difficult for them to hit you.

While I realize that you can't do this in a turn-based tabletop game, I think I'd enjoy playing a character fluffed as doing it, who crunch-wise approximates it as closely as possible. That means as many movement-based abilities improving his defensive and offensive abilities as possible.

So I'm thinking Scout/Ranger, using Swift Hunter. I'll take Expeditious Dodge, perhaps Mobility and Elusive Target, Improved Skirmish, and either take a Swordsage level or use Martial Stance to get Child of Shadow for a 20% miss chance whenever I move. I will of course need some way to get free movement, be it Travel Devotion or something else.

I'd like to hear any recommendations you have on this, both on the build and on how I could play it effectively.

Rixx
2010-02-05, 05:40 PM
Pathfinder has the Wind Stance / Lightning Stance feat chain, that grants you automatic concealment against ranged attacks when you move. The Vital Strike chain would also be useful, since you'll be giving up your extra attacks by moving.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/wind-stance-combat---final
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/lightning-stance-combat---final

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/vital-strike-combat---final
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/improved-vital-strike-combat---final
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/greater-vital-strike-combat---final

That is, of course, if Pathfinder feats are allowed. In any case, Pathfinder's the system I'm most familiar with, which is why my suggestions tend to revolve around that.

With the Wind Stance and Vital Strike chains, you'll be darting around all over the place, dealing deadly blows and dodging everything thrown at you.

UglyPanda
2010-02-05, 05:42 PM
Circle-strafing only works because FPS characters never get tired and the AI doesn't know how to lead its targets.

It's kinda silly to try to work something into the game simply because you do it in a video game. It's like a villain's fortress being impregnable just because it has a few waist-high walls.


That said, if you pimp out AoOs and use Desert Wind Dodge Evasive Reflexes (feat, ToB), it is possible to get something similar to circle-strafing someone with the current rules.

Signmaker
2010-02-05, 05:46 PM
It's kinda silly to try to work something into the game simply because you do it in a video game. It's like a villain's fortress being impregnable just because it has a few waist-high walls.

"Oh bother, looks like I'll have to do the [Henchman's Aspiration] quest to get the [Door Key] after all."

drengnikrafe
2010-02-05, 05:47 PM
Have you ever gone boffing, or LARPing, and tried to circle-strafe somebody? Short of moving to a more tactically functional position, it doesn't do much.

But I digress. You may (sort of) be able to use an Anklet of Translocation (I think that's what it's called. I'm AFB at the moment) from the MiC.

Demented
2010-02-05, 05:51 PM
Circle-strafing only works because FPS characters never get tired and the AI doesn't know how to lead its targets.

It's kinda silly to try to work something into the game simply because you do it in a video game. It's like a villain's fortress being impregnable just because it has a few waist-high walls.

It works against human players too. That's mainly because there is no such thing as inertia, and characters in FPS games move much more quickly than real persons and can do so in any direction without tripping.

Presumably, the same tactics would benefit a tabletop character who moves 50% faster than a normal person (or is at least objectively more maneuverable than his opponent) and changes direction on a dime.

UglyPanda
2010-02-05, 05:58 PM
It works against human players too.Well, some players are worse than AI... such as myself...

But as with all FPS strategies, its effectiveness depends on a number of factors, such as what weapons each player is using and what game they're playing. Of course, a good player* with a sensitive mouse and low lag can really hurt a circle-strafer.

*Of course, a player could always just strafe backwards and try to screw up his opponent's circle.

SurlySeraph
2010-02-05, 06:00 PM
Circle-strafing only works because FPS characters never get tired and the AI doesn't know how to lead its targets.

It's kinda silly to try to work something into the game simply because you do it in a video game. It's like a villain's fortress being impregnable just because it has a few waist-high walls.

Dungeons and Dragons is a game that lets you play a guy who turns into a spellcasting giraffe, a pixie that can use a hammer many times larger than itself because it was descended from titans, a man who gets so angry that he turns into a bear, a man who gains near-magical powers from not owning property and loses these powers if he borrows an item from a friend for six seconds, and many other very silly things. I feel that an elf who runs in circles around things peppering them with arrows is a perfectly viable concept in such a world.

An Anklet of Translocation's a good way to get free movement, though I'd prefer some way that doesn't involve teleportation since I like the flavor of just running around. I'm strongly considering Greater Manyshot, though it does take a lot of feats; a level in cleric plus Travel Devotion is probably the best option.

UglyPanda
2010-02-05, 06:02 PM
...Viable and silly aren't mutually exclusive, as demonstrated by Bearington Bearman the bearbearian. And I did give a suggestion in an edit.

I'm just saying that circle-strafing kinda goes past my own silly threshold.

SparkMandriller
2010-02-05, 06:04 PM
Someone find a way to dolphin dive in 3.5 please.

SurlySeraph
2010-02-05, 06:09 PM
Viable and silly aren't mutually exclusive, as demonstrated by Bearington Bearman the bearbearian. And I did give a suggestion in an edit.

I'm just saying that circle-strafing kinda goes past my own silly threshold.

Understood. And your suggestion of Evasive Reflexes is excellent; I always forget that that feat exists.


Someone find a way to dolphin dive in 3.5 please.

Jump technically doesn't require an action, as it's included in your movement. If you make lots of short Jump checks, plus Sudden Leap, that would work.

Demented
2010-02-05, 06:17 PM
I'm just saying that circle-strafing kinda goes past my own silly threshold.

Speaking of silly thresholds, circle-strafing was eventually enhanced by a another effective method of making yourself hard to hit: Bunnyhopping. :smallbiggrin:

Harperfan7
2010-02-05, 09:27 PM
Don't try it in paintball. Just saying.

Ernir
2010-02-05, 11:29 PM
This might be easier to pull off if you're flying. Flyby attack?

Zom B
2010-02-06, 12:30 AM
Kinda funny you mention this,

Raptor2213, do not read this or it will spoil the adventure's ending tomorrow:
The final boss of my campaign is a Scout20 with twin +2 Repeating Hand Crossbows of Speed equipped with Clips of Holding, a grafted fiend tail, the prehensile tail and rapid reload feats to re-load both crossbows as free actions, and the Travel Devotion, Rapid Shot, and Improved Skirmish feats along with all the TWF feats. So for one minute of the day, she can teleport 60' as a free action every round, unleash 10 crossbow bolts each doing 7d6 + 1d4 + 5 damage, and have a 30 AC every round. True, the players can melee with her, but they'll have moved 60' to do so, and she can just jaunt another 60' or so next round, so basically she's going to be strafing them in a circle. If things get so bad, her free 60' teleport and the Cape of the Mountebank she has should make getaway a breeze. Or she can just blip to a blind spot and Hide in Plain Sight while she gets a potion or two off.

PhoenixRivers
2010-02-06, 01:17 AM
Another option to represent this would be a Dervish with a couple levels of Bloodstorm Blade. Moving and peppering the target with ranged attacks that count as melee is solid. Add in stances that give you concealment if you move, and other movement based bonuses, and you're in business.

LurkerInPlayground
2010-02-06, 01:23 AM
Circle-strafing only works because FPS characters never get tired and the AI doesn't know how to lead its targets.

It's kinda silly to try to work something into the game simply because you do it in a video game. It's like a villain's fortress being impregnable just because it has a few waist-high walls.


That said, if you pimp out AoOs and use Desert Wind Dodge Evasive Reflexes (feat, ToB), it is possible to get something similar to circle-strafing someone with the current rules.
You do it against human targets in FPS's as well, but again, running around sideways all the time is unnatural and awkward. And even in the most unrealistically fantastic FPS's, it's not really a tactic that works well against veteran players because they'll put themselves in a position where they're more likely to kill you before that would accomplish anything.

Realistically, it's one thing to zig-zag if you're running away from an enemy with a loaded projectile and your'e unarmed and quite another thing to run circles around them.

Realistically, ranged warfare prefers that you either get the drop on the other guy first or have cover-and-concealment. Or both. Either that, or you have to have enough massed troops and the sustainability to pressure them with massed firepower that they can't hope to avoid. Kill one guy and the three guys behind him come into firing range.

Unless, you know, the whole point is that the game is a Gun-Fu parody of FPS games.

Jothki
2010-02-06, 02:25 AM
Don't forget to incorporate a bonus for constantly hopping.